User talk:Donlammers/Archive 4

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William Temple Hornaday

Hi--I'm a bit of a novice, so apologies for linking to the FB page for Hornaday. Didn't realize until you removed it that it was inappropriate. Adding a few things here and there from the new biography, Mr. Hornaday's War. Please let me know if you see any mistakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbenn0254 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

No problems. Improvements re always welcome. Just remember that what we want on WikiPedia are reliable sources, and Facebook is really an advertisement site (either for persons or businesses), not an information site. Fan sites are, pretty much by definition, biased. Don Lammers (talk) 23:14, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Asian tropics

Hello DL I hope that you and your family are well. I know that you will see this edit [1] when next you peruse your watchlist. I know that the date change is correct but I had a question about the overall use of the "Asian Tropics" reference. I didn't see it back in Jan of 2010 but it looks like it has been updated with new and different info since then. I couldn't find any mention of dates at all - though I might have missed them. I am wondering if different refs should be found to verify any info that is no longer on this one. Thanks for your time and enjoy your summer. MarnetteD | Talk 20:08, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Good to hear from you! Yes, the Denver zoo article, especially as it applies to Asian Tropics (actually, I think it's been renamed) needs to be updated. I'm told the exhibit opened yesterday, and I'm hoping to get down there sometime in the next week or so (we are deliberately avoiding what are surely to be crowds this weekend). I also need to update the map with some detail inside the blob that says "Under construction". I'm assuming there will be some local news articles that will mention this over the weekend, and that will be a better source for opening dates than the zoo (usually less likely to be modified if nothing else). I will take a look tomorrow and see what I think needs to be done. Or, if you have other better sources already, feel free to change the article as needed. Don Lammers (talk) 20:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I know the Post had an article in the last day or so about the opening. You are probably already aware that they are having timed entries to keep from overcrowding. I think you can reserve a time online which would be nice so that the family is not stuck waiting for too long. Well a storm is brewing in my neighborhood so I may loose my connection due to rain or lightening so I will wish you and yours well and enjoy the new exhibit when you get there! MarnetteD | Talk 20:31, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

A wiki-cookie for you :) Thank you Don for fixing the DAB and article related to the National Zoo! Sarah (talk) 17:51, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! though it looks from the "closure" instructions that I really should have waited until Monday. I'll close it officially then, and there are still 4 other national Zoo articles that need to be moved (it looks like "od South Africa" is actually a part o fthe name for that one). Then there are National Aquariums too... Don Lammers (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Cherry Creek, Idaho

I don't know how I missed that, I thought I added all the titles with "Cherry Creek" in them, when updating the disambiguation page. 117Avenue (talk) 03:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

It took me a while, but in the process I found an archived photocopy of the actual handwritten history that listed the name (difficult to read, but still readable), plus a couple of other good citations that didn't exist when I last looked at the article (Utah State U is evidently very busy archiving stuff). I think I could get the article up to C-class now, but that will need to wait a bit. Don Lammers (talk) 12:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Bärengraben

Please see my response on my talk page. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 10:17, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Detroit Zoo Edits

Thank you for the feedback and patience. We will update the page according to Wikipedia guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.109.205 (talk) 15:09, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Acronyms

Thanks for responding to my edit summary. As I looked at that section I was trying to guess what each of them might mean and then thought that I wouldn't be the only reader doing that. To say nothing of the fact that SWF has other meanings :-) I thought of you when the Post had a brief mention of the fact that the Zoo now has over 68,000 memberships - an all time high. Nice to know that there are some successes out there. I hope you and yours are surviving the heat. MarnetteD | Talk 15:57, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughts. The heat is better up here at 9,000 feet. However, the Flagstaff fire is visible from about half a block down the road. We are all occounted for, however, and have an evacuation plan if it becomes necessary (at this point, we look OK). Don Lammers (talk) 00:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

photographs of sculpture?

This discussion is about the Shanghai Zoo shepherd statue.

Hi, you cleaned up the Shanghai Zoo page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shanghai_Zoo&action=history and it is an improvement. But I see your comment said sculptures are copyrighted and posting of a photograph is not permissible.

Are you sure about that? There are many photographs of famous statues like David on Wikipedia itself. Also, searching on the web, I found some site like this that have the opposite view http://www.sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?t=1814

Can you explain?

Ctny (talk) 05:23, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

First, any opinions outside Wikipedia and Commons are not relevant. Wikipedia is, much stricter about copyright than just about anyone else, and commons is even stricter. This is by design, since anything in either project needs to be able to be reused commercially without restriction (yes, someone can actually sell your photos).

In the example of David, the artist has been dead long enough (time after death is country dependent) so the sculpture is no longer under copyright. Most "famous" statues are probably OK just due to their age.

A photo of a sculpture is a derivative work. Everything depends on whether the original work is copyrighted, and for sculptures the rules for this largely depend on age and the rules for freedom of panorama (different per country). There is a decision tree here and a discussion about freedom of panorama here. A bunch of examples are shown here.

I have a tendency to be suspicious of photos for any sculpture that looks new, since I'm generally too lazy to go look up freedom of panorama by country (they are all different). However, when pressed I will do my due diligence, and for this particular sculpture it looks like you are within Chinese copyright law if you add the artist's name and title of the work (not just a description) to the uploaded photo in Commons and possibly to the caption (I'm a bit fuzzy about that part). A not on the page in commons about the China having freedom of panorama wouldn't hurt. According to the freedom of panorama article, the Chinese law states that the "work may be exploited without the permission from, and without payment of remuneration to, the copyright owner, provided that the name of the author and the title of the work are mentioned and the other rights enjoyed by the copyright owner by virtue of this Law are not infringed upon". Also on Commons, "When uploading images subject to Freedom of Panorama provisions to the Commons, please tag them with the {{FOP}} template, which contains a legal disclaimer on the copyright status of the work, and sorts the image into a category of images subject to these provisions." I already did the FOP template, and I noticed you had not categorized all of your zoo photos on Commons, so I went ahead and did that too. Don Lammers (talk) 15:39, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the great explanation. I never knew such consideration existed before, but it makes sense.

For the sculpture in question, it comes from a well known story for kids, to teach kids to be responsible and persevere. This type of public works are created by the government and would not have an actual artist name associated. So I am not sure how to fit it into the model you described...

Your said that you categorized the zoo photos with FOP template. I am not sure what that means, exactly what actions did you take, and what else I need to do to fix the photos? Can you elaborate?

Also, when I was in Italy, most museums did not allow photography, is that related to copyright? But some did allow, so that is a bit confusing...

Ctny (talk) 03:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

In general, it's safest to assume there is a copyright unless you can prove there isn't. As for the creator, if it isn't acknowledged on the sculpture we may be exempt. See here. I will see if I can get a more expert opinion on this, but perhaps you now see why I generally avoid sculpture photos in zoo articles -- the issues are not simple. Photos of sculptures in zoos also don't generally tell much about the zoo itself (which is what the article is about) though there are exceptions.

The FOP template is already on the photo page. It's the big batch of text with bluish background, that includes "It is believed that the taking, uploading and reuse of this derivative work is permitted..." etc. It acknowledges that we believe the work is copyrighted, AND that we believe it's OK to use it under freedom of panorama.

Museum rules don't always come from copyright issues. For instance, in some places you may just not be allowed to use your flash. Also, some museums may include a blanket no-photo rule because it's easier than trying to mark whether each item is still copyrighted or not. This would be up to the museum, and without asking each one of them, it's hard to say why each maintains the policy that it does. Don Lammers (talk) 11:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

See also discussion here. Don Lammers (talk) 12:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Don, thank you very much for this learning experience! Really appreciate it!

Ctny (talk) 01:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

about your message

you people have left me these kinds of messages a million times but have you seen any change ? also the source is orcahome.de/orcasincaptivity or orcahome.de/captive orca statistic so somebody can always source it for me. i dont know how to source things. i have tried sourcing things by looking at oher sources and trying to use examples but it just left errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickedangry (talk • contribs) 06:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I replied on your talk page, which is where you should have replied to keep things together. Don Lammers (talk) 12:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

RE pregnancies

i learned how to source things so i sourced kasatka's pregnancy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickedangry (talk • contribs) 06:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

This is not a news article. A pregnancy is not encyclopedic (it may or may not even come to term). Sourcing that particula information is not going to keep you from being reverted. It may be true but it does not b elong in an encyclopedia. Don Lammers (talk) 12:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Getting Wikimedians to the Olympic Games

Hi. I am part of an effort to get Wikimedians access to the 2016 Summer Olympics as accredited reporters and photographers. Part of this effort includes covering the 2012 Summer Paralympics. Two Wikimedians have credentials to attend these games as reporters through Wikimedia Australia. As English Wikipedia does not allow original reporting, this is largely through Wikinews with a project page found at Wikinews:Paralympic Games. If you are interested in helping to get Wikimedians to the next Summer Olympics,I'd encourage you to assist with Wikinews efforts, and also to work on all language 2012 Summer Paralympic Wikipedia articles before, during and after the Games to demonstrate a track record of success. Thank you. --LauraHale (talk) 04:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

TUSC token 28ccf923a67a4e44ba33bf35089fac71

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

Your removal of the aerial image of sea world San Diego

I noticed you got into a little of an edit war with User:Wickedangry about one of my pictures. Unfortunately, it seems that when the image was renamed and eventually moved to the Commons, a redirect was not set up. The file is now at File:SeaWorld San Diego Aerial.jpg, and I've taken the liberty of putting it back in. Cheers! --Wingtipvorte^X PTT ∅ 03:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Personally I don't think aerial photos have any place in these articles now that we can get a much better, labeled satellite view on Wikimapia, but I don't generally remove them, and certainly would not normally get into an edit war over it. However, WickedAngry kept putting a redlink back. He's also been doing a lot of other unreferenced and non-encyclopedic editing on just about any article about orcas. Don Lammers (talk) 12:35, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Arignar Anna Zoological Park

Dear Donlammers. Greetings. Just thought of informing you that Arignar Anna Zoological Park article has been chosen for Chennai Collaboration of the Month (October), which aims at improving the article to GA/FA class. With very few issues remaining to be resolved hopefully, I feel this will give a push to the long-awaited task of moving this article to the next level. I request you to have a look at it when you find time and provide your expert opinion on this (talk page). I thank you for all your support in the past. Rasnaboy (talk) 08:48, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:ZooDef

Template:ZooDef has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. AIRcorn (talk) 11:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Firefox

Online Chinese sources for 火狐 as a name for the red panda include the article on the red panda on the Chinese Wikipedia. The (English) Wiktionary lemma 火狐 also lists this meaning. (Although 火狐 does have an entry on the Chinese Wiktionary, no meaning is given there.)

These can, of course, not be used as sources on Wikipedia. Therefore I've cited two (of many) Chinese sources in print that, when giving a list of local wildlife species that includes the red panda, write “……，小熊貓 (火狐)，……”, which literally translates as "..., lesser panda (firefox), ...". I hope this suffices to settle the issue.  --Lambiam 17:53, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

That will most definitely suffice. Thank you. Don Lammers (talk) 18:33, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Marine Life Park

After reviewing other articles, I have to place back the external links (which I have done so) and to agree on what you have said on my user talk. This to avoid any further disagreement. Also, I apologise for my actions. Peace. Sni56996 (talk) 14:16, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

Takinzinnia has eaten your {{cookie}}! The cookie made him happy and he'd like to give you a great big hug for donating it. Spread the WikiLove by giving out more {{cookie}}s, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Thanks again!

Thank you for the welcome-back brownie, which is not a cookie :)

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat a cookie with {{subst:munch}}!

Takinzinnia (talk • contribs) 01:06, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Arignar Anna Zoological Park

Hi Donlammers, I have tried creating the map of the zoo ([2]) using illustrator. Please review if this is good enough. The legends can be taken supported using the template in Memphis zoo. Thanks a ton in advance :)--Challengethelimits (talk) 03:49, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry this took so long, but my weeks have been pretty busy lately and I often seem to be able to edit only on weekends. A few things that I would suggest:

• Crop the left, right, and bottom as close as you can. It won't be a lot, but this will make the image as large as possible when displayed.
• I don't think it is necessary to be absolutely accurate about the shape of small exhibits. For instance, it's hard to read 20 and 23, but the numbers would be easier to read if the exhibits were just basically circles.
• In several places, the numbers just need to be placed over the exhibits a bit better so the entire white number is over the dark exhibit background.
• Where the numbers are over a light background (the entrance and the forest), they should be black so they are visible.
• Where possible, make the numbers a bit larger. I think readability is more important than consistent font sizes for something like this.
• I assume there will be a legend somewhere? This is going to be an awfully long legend (and hard to keep up as animals are moved around the zoo). An alternative in terms of labeling would be to lump several exhibits together as "bird exhibits", "hooved mammals", etc. and keep the labels in the drawing (or in a shorter list. You can see what I did for the Denver Zoo. Remember that the legend needs to be cited like anything else, however you decide to do this. you might, for instance, match the areas shown in the map with the divisions that are shown in the Exhibits section, which is a much smaller number. We don't necessarily need to reproduce the zoo map here. Too close of a copy could be interpreted as copyright infringement. Don Lammers (talk) 16:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Donlammers. Great to have you here. i will try to incorporate the corrections soon.--Challengethelimits (talk) 02:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Balkasar Bear Sanctuary

Hi there. I recently made this article about an animal rescue and rehabilitation center. However, I am confused as if it actually falls in the WikiProject Zoo because it is not open to public, and may not be a zoo by definition. It most certainly is in WP Animal rights. It is not in WP Protected areas because it is not a "wildlife" sanctuary, since it provides a permanent retirement home to "tamed" (toothless/blind etc) bears who cannot fend for themselves. It also hasn't done anything for conservation yet and hasn't shown any interest in doing so either. It provides stations for research though. It is rather confusing place. Help would be appreciated if you assess it and remove the WP Zoo banner if you think it is not a zoo or zoo-related place. Thanks. FudgeFury^{(talk|sign|contribs)} 11:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I've been sick and off WP for about a week. I'm assessing this as start class, though I think it's almost C. It only really has 5 paragraphs, though it is well structured and has plenty of citations. A bit more narrative, or photos, would make this C. I am removing the Zoo navbox since this is not open to the public. It is definitely "of interest" to WP Zoo (which is different than saying that it IS a zoo), so I am leaving WP Zoo listed in the talk page banner. Don Lammers (talk) 13:40, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Merry

Season's Greetings, Donlammers! At this wonderful time of year, I would like to give season’s greetings to all the fellow Wikipedians I have interacted with in the past! May you have a wonderful holiday season! MarnetteD | Talk 18:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

• Also best wishes for your 2013 and happy editing whenever possible :-) MarnetteD | Talk 18:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello. You have a new message at User talk:SMcCandlish's talk page. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ^⊝כ^⊙þ Contrib. 20:44, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

And again. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ^⊝כ^⊙þ Contrib. 23:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for your contributions for the article Dubai Dolphinarium...

Georgekurian80823 (talk) 12:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy New Year

File:Happy New Year 2013.jpg		Have an enjoyable New Year!
		Hello Donlammers: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, ~ Jedi94 (talk) 23:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC) Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2013}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

"It is being recorded"

I was not talking about the template on the page, I was talking about this, which is showing the page as "importance unclassified"... although before your revert it had been fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't see it listed when I follow the link. I only see 5 Indonesia projects listed, and none of the are the Marine park. If I am interpreting the toolserver page correctly, it is asking for all Indonesia projects with unknown importance If you looked for zoo projects, you would get a couple of thousand entries), and since you added the importance to the Indonesia project template (which I did not get rid of), the entry should have disappeared from the page, and seems to have done so. My removal of importance from the zoo project template should not have any effect on the search shown, unless there is something about the search that I am not understanding. Don Lammers (talk) 15:12, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

• Odd. Could it be a cache problem? Nothing else keeps coming back (as a side note, it's still showing up for me in that list I linked above) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• This is strange. Now I am seeing it in the toolserver list. I tried reversing the Indonesia and Zoo tags, and then tried copying the entries from Talk:Batu Secret Zoo (which has the same settings but does not show up in the toolserver list), and I still see the entry on toolserver. I may not be waiting enough between tests for toolserver to catch up, so I just added importance=low back again to see what happens (so far I still see it on toolserver). I'll come back later and check. Don Lammers (talk) 12:58, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• Alright, thanks. If there is a problem I could take it to the pump — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• Once we see what the latest changes do or don't do, we should probably at least notify someone. None of the changes I made should have made any difference in the toolserver entry (the operative words here being "should have"). Don Lammers (talk) 13:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• "Should have" indeed. This is the only page I've seen do this, out of the however many thousand I've classified, so I don't think it's something we've done. It could be a server-side problem or a tool-side problem. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

• Sigh... it's back again. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Posted to WP:VPT — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, one more try with the combination you originally left it with (Indonesia outside the banner shell, and both Indonesia and zoos have an importance). Give it a couple of days so we know we are not dealing with server lag.

I just noticed that the server shows dates under both Importance and Quality. Both of these are the talk page creation date ( 2012-08-27T08:25:28 - the date I initially assessed the article). And indeed at that time, the Indonesia project did not have an importance listed (I don't generally list importance for projects with which I am not familiar).

An experiment... A new item is on the list (Sanga Sanga district). The current date on the server matches the initial assessment date (2013-02-08 (t)). I just assessed it (It's obviously a stub, and I assume a district would be mid importance, but if not, feel free to change it). It did not change immediately on the server. The date in the talk history for the change shows as 2013-02-09T07:22:38 on my system. Actually, I probably should not have done importance, to see if the date on the server actually ever changes. Sorry, too late now. Don Lammers (talk) 14:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:ZooMontana logo.png

A tag has been placed on File:ZooMontana logo.png requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Wikipedia (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. kashmiri 19:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Mystic Aquarium logo.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Mystic Aquarium logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 23:19, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

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