DanteTheDestroyer

Your article has been moved to AfC space

Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: User:DanteTheDestroyer/Skinny Lister has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Skinny Lister, this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. ArticlesForCreationBot (talk) 17:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

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 Chzz  ►  05:24, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Table Top Racing

Hi There,

I saw your comments in the edit summaries. All your information was good, I just wanted to make sure you weren't purposely removing all the lower reviews. I agree, the way I had written the article before did not show enough of the good reviews, but that wasn't done intentionally, its just that, when I first wrote the article, either the better reviews didn't exist, or I couldn't find them.

Anyways, I'm happy with how it is now, it shows both sets of reviews. Thanks! Sergecross73 msg me 15:54, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to add more positives and also average review score from the App Store and Google Play. I wont delete any of your work, but I think we need to have a better representation of this game on Wiki. Let me know if you have any issues with it ok?

This is frustrating! Why is it not easier to post you a direct message? Forgive my ignorance. I only have a working knowledge of Wikipedia's back end. Apologies.

No problem. If you want to discuss elsewhere, you can either click on the "talk" tab at the Table Top Racing article. (Ultimately at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Table_Top_Racing) and click on the "new section" to start a new discussion. Or click on the "edit" part of the subsection title if you're adding to an old section.) If you want to talk to me directly, separate of an article's talk page, click on the "msg me" right next to my name. Sergecross73 msg me 16:29, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

• Please, assume good faith, I'm only trying to help you here. That being said, rather than accusing me of being biased, please try to learn how Wikipedia functions. Wikipedia goes by what reliable sources say. Please read up on how Wikipedia defines "reliable", and how to identify reliable sources. That being said, the "User Reviews" were removed because they violate Wikipedia's stance against Self-Published information. Information must come from reliable sources, sources that have editorial policies, editorial staff and oversight, etc. User scores are just information on random people - not reliable sources.
• So, for instance, IGN is a reliable sources, because they have a staff, editorial policies, a history of fact checking, etc. The User Scores from IGN, or some random blog named "Josh's Game Blog", are not reliable, because any ol' random person could write that.

I can go into more detail if you like, but I'll stop there for now. WP:VG/S has a list of commonly accepted/unusable sources for use on Wikipedia, if it helps. Sergecross73 msg me 16:48, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not trying to highlight blogs or individual users. Cumulative reviews on the App Store and Google play form the basis of why most people chose to download an app or not. Do you think the average man on the street goes to IGN or pocketgamer? No, he just looks at the reviews stats next to the app and makes the call, this is how it works with apps anyway. To not list those numbers which give the game it's fairest representation from the views of thousands of real people who have played the game seems crazy to me. I cannot believe other user stats aren't listed on other apps. I'm actually travelling on the tube at the no or I'd check. I'll have a proper look later.

In the mean time, I apologise for accusing, but in my opinion, your wiki page gives a mainly negative view of TTR. And that is just not right.

• Its fine that you added more positive reviews, like I said, I welcome most of them. I created and wrote the article over the course of one day back in last June. Back then, that's all that was available, and I never really revisited the article since then, until today. I was just working with what I had found and what existed at the time - If had more of the positive ones back then, I would have added them too. So yeah, I have no problem with you adding more positive reviews. the problem is with these User Scores though:
• Cumulative user scores/stats aren't present on any articles because they violate Wikipedia policy. Its irrelevant where the "average man" is looking for scores. We're not a buyers guide. We're an encyclopedia. We're only to write on what is reported on by reliable sources - covered in WP:SOURCE. Like I said, using user scores violates WP:SPS - self-published info is not acceptable to use. By the very definition of what Wikipedia is, its not useable information. That's why you don't see it anywhere. Sergecross73 msg me 17:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok, no user reviews. But can we please remove the maclife review? 2/5 is not an accurate reflection of this game. When the title first came out, a number of reviewers were sceptical because they had never heard of Playrise before and doubted that a MicroMachines style game could be any good. They based their reviews on 2 minutes of gameplay, if they'd given the game anymore time they would have seen that their comments were based on the first few levels and not the full experience. Such is the minefield of App based Videogame Publishing. The guys who did give it a chance gave it top marks, those that couldn't be arsed threw easy criticism. The accusation that TTR's not fast enough is total rubbish. Yes it's slow at the start to teach you how the game plays, later on, it's fast as hell. If you've played the game you know it to be true. Also, to accuse the game of being unimaginative or clumsy is just plain wrong. Have you seen all the levels? Have you played with the faster cars? How could you possibly say the game is unimaginative, it has been lovingly crafted and finely tuned by the guys who invented one of the all time greatest racing games WipeOut. Do you really think they could get it that wrong? Play the game and I challenge you to not enjoy it after completing the first full challenge area. It has been misrepresented by some sites and I'm damned if I'm going to let the game be misrepresented here. This is also why I wanted the user reviews which paint the real picture of what people think of this title. Hope you understand my frustration. People put their lives into this game, and to have a miserable representation of it on Wikipedia is like a kick in the teeth. Have you given any serious time to this title?

On Wikipedia, we need to adhere to WP:NPOV - keeping a neutral point of view. That means we need to show a full spectrum of reviews shown. Those are reliable sources, and they make valid points. We can't just remove reviews because we personally don't agree with them, or that they'd hurt the developer's feelings. Furthermore, your accusations of the reviewers "not thinking a Micro Machines game could be good" or "only played 2 minutes of the game" are, purely your personal speculation.

Full disclosure: I have played the game, and I thought it was okay. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. But we go by what reliable sources say, so that's not really worth anything on Wikipedia, and I acknowledge that. I don't write on Wikipedia to push my point of view, I do it to inform people on what sources are saying about it. That's how the project is supposed to work. If you want to gush about how great you feel the game is, I recommend starting a blog or Facebook page or something where the focus is personal opinions. Sergecross73 msg me 15:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)