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——————————————— Archive, June 2006 ———————————————
Hmm.. I thought we discussed this. Turkish people include kurds. Perhaps it might be wise to merge People of Turkey with Turkish people. 'Turk' is an ethnicity, 'Turkish' is a nationality. -- Cat chi? 19:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
- If that's true why is that the CIA differentiates between "Turkish" and "Kurdish" in the ethnic groups section? —Khoikhoi 23:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Perhaps CIA made a typo. While I do not know why, CIA screwed up big time. However see: under "Nationality", "adjective: Turkish" on the same CIA page you have posted to me. Every citizen of Turkey is Turkish, including Ethnic Kurds, Turks, Greeks and everone else. This is like calling someone a Canadian if they are from Canada.
- It is often easy to confuse Ethnicity and Nationality, but I'd expect better from the CIA.
- -- Cat chi? 23:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well here, check out the U.S. Library of Congress study on Turkey, particularly the Linguistic and Ethnic Groups section. It also refers to "ethnic Turks" as separate group from the Kurds. —Khoikhoi 00:06, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- You are precisely right. "Ethnic Turks" U.S. Library of Congress talks about are Turkic people living in Turkey, and the aproporate wikipedia article would be Turkic people. Turkic people are indeed distinct from the Kurds to a degree. However, Turkish people (nationality) include Turkic people (ethnicity) and Kurdish people (ethnicity).
- I understand the terminology can be a bit confusing as Turkish and Turkic sound similar.
- -- Cat chi? 00:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, I know the difference between Turkish and Turkic. However, the Turkish people article is not about the Turkish nationality and it has never been. That's why is uses {{Infobox ethnic group}}. I'm not sure what else to say. —Khoikhoi 00:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- There is no Turkish ethnicity so the article can't talk about it. The infobox and/or the article is probably inaproporate and should redirect just like American people. -- Cat chi? 00:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- I have reviewed the case further and discovered something quite disturbing. People of Turkey, Turkish people, and Demographics of Turkey practicaly talk about the same thing (all 3 exists as a pov fork to a level of degree). I feel all should be refined and merged to Demographics of Turkey. See: Demographics of the United States as an example. -- Cat chi? 01:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- No I disagree. Let me explain: Demographics of Turkey is not only about the ethnic groups, it's also about sex ratio, birth rate, literacy, etc. People of Turkey is a sub-article of the former that I mentioned, it goes more into depth on the ethnic groups. Lastly, Turkish people talks about the main ethnic group in Turkey (which does not include Kurds). Whether it exists or not is a matter of debate. —Khoikhoi 01:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Demographics include sex ratios, ethicity ratios etc. I do not see why we need an article that has to focus on ethnicity. Why is there a reason for us to cover Kurds any diferently than how "blacks" are covered in United States? There is an African American article and a Kurdish people article... and no People of the United States (its a redirect to guess what?)
- The main ethnic group in Turkey is Turkic people which can be explained in the Turkic people article. A good example would be American people (its a redirect)
- -- Cat chi? 01:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I don't think people would approve of deleting the Turkish people page, but we'll see what others have to say. —Khoikhoi 01:28, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I am not suggesting we "delete" the page, instead just merge. All 3 articles "rant on" random opinions from time to time. Remove those, and you have a decent demographics article. -- Cat chi? 01:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- I guess I see what you're saying. I just want to make sure that others agree as well before any action is taken. —Khoikhoi 01:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Please see my talk page Photo section. The user InShaneee threaten me. Can I do anything for that? For example informing other admins can work.
"This is your only warning. Continue to add this picture to articles and you will be blocked. --InShaneee 23:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)"Reply
Ruzgar 21:53, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I am no admin but I do want to help you, but you need to make it possible.
- Calling an admin a "dictator", "racist", anti-turk, etc does not help us create a better encyclopedia. I want you to apologise from InShaneee. I will try to convince InShaneee to shorten/lift your block if you promise you wont continue the "revert war".
- As for the image, I dont think it is aproporate on the PKK article. It is also inapproporate for Armenian Genocide to have similar images of corpses. However the way to remove the images do not go throughthe PKK article. I will talk to InShaneee about this.
- -- Cat chi? 23:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Err, first off, sorry for not signing that. I'm replacing it by a PNG version, basically, per {{Template:BadGIF}} Kevin_b_er 05:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- You actually saved me the work by replacing the .gif -> .png I thank you. .gif be damned! :) -- Cat chi? 05:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
See this application for arbitration against Moby Dick. --Tony Sidaway 15:09, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for the German, Hungarian, Lithuanian translations -- Cat chi? 15:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hey, no problems. I speak German, and the Hungarian and Lithuanian versions I checked with friends. I'll update once I can guarantee what it is in other languages too! Jared Preston 15:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Impresive. Can you also add a litteral translation back to english? -- Cat chi? 15:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- As far as I'm aware, they all mean "cool". At least the German certainly does! *lol* I have another for you to add (I'm not too sure on how you want it all formatted so I'll leave it here at your disposal) and that's Czech: Hustá kočka. That also literally means "cool cat", but hustá, hustý also means "dense". Hustota is Czech for "density". Jared Preston 20:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- PS: In Slovak I've been told that "cool cat" is "cool mačka", they don't appear to have their own word for cool... Jared Preston 20:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Many languages dont have an equavalent to "cool", so we need aproximations ;). -- Cat chi? 20:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- You'll have to make do with what you've got :-P but I can help you with the Russian – the adjective "крутой" means "sharp" ;-) Jared Preston 20:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I've added a literal meaning in Russian. The word крутой has several meanings (see [1]), but I assume the third one is most appropriate for "cool" (though I'm no linguist). Conscious 12:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
You may want to read some of the cheap tactics confessed by Fadix and THOTH [2] :) 24.211.192.250 18:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Hi, What am I supposed to be looking for? Can you clarify what you mean by "cheap tactics"? -- Cat chi? 20:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
THOTH speaking to Fadix: "... However, in times past, I have refused to make certain posts (that you scripted for me - etc) under different usernames to support your positions as you requested of me - and I have this documented...as well as other similar things... I am sorry that this has made you upset - that I have not proven as mallable as you wished - though I have cooperated on some things - haven't I? (nothing deceptive however - as I don't go for all of this silly personal intrigue). Shall I go on or shall I just introduce this evidence into your proceedings?"
Fadix speaking to THOTH: "...You're being childishtic, two times I have been requesting things involving the creation of usernames, recent one was implying what I needed a Turk to do(that part was an indirect request to that other person, as far as I know you don't know Turkish), and you know what happened, a Turk offered to help me(and I hope you are respectful enought to keep that persons identity private). Two Wikipedian members are aware of the situation and know why I did that, and another veteran, also administrator El_C who I said about the email I recieved during the period was warned by me about the situation which I considered premedited. I needed to know who was doing that and the only way for me to know was a Turk registering and supporting me so that the responsable email that person and so I accumulate that evidence(implicated with Tommiks cases) during the RfAr I was planing at that time forcing the responsable to come clean privatly(I know it wasn't clean, I admit) by email and retreaving that evidence. But I forgot to say that Turk to have a valid email and that person didn't had much time so I didn't wanted to bother that person(if you visit that registered users talkpage(the one you were witness of what I requested that person to say), you will read my past request about having a valid email) so I settled for a checkuser for that time being, which was refused. Either way, that person was really a Turk and was really supporting me, while this was durty, you can't use this, since it isen't against any policies or guidelines, and I admit that it was also motivated by the need of gaining some support against later, the IP unregistered users. " 24.211.192.250 20:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thats a copy of the msg posted on the page you linked. What part of it is "cheep tactic"? I just don't want to jump to conclusions as both sides (Fadix THOTH) are ranting on... -- Cat chi? 20:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I'm not sure what you consider appropriate. But Fadix requesting THOTH to create different usernames, and asking to post messages scripted by himself under these 'fake' usernames does not sound normal to me.
- Similarly, Fadix trying to find a Turkish speaking user to manipulate the talk page is not innocent. Anyway, this is FYI only. I'm not planning to pursue anything out of this. Best 24.211.192.250 21:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thank you for letting me know. -- Cat chi? 21:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I'd like to notify you that the category will probably be kept per perhaps some politicaly motivated keep votes unlike Category:Hispanic inhabited regions which will be deleted. -- Cat chi? 13:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not surprised that the discrepancy happened. Just shows that logic is lacking somewhere... ;-) CovenantD 20:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Indeed. Now what should we do with the category? Since it is very hard to get anything related to the kurds deleted... -- Cat chi? 20:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, if the objection is that it's vague, then it needs to be refined somehow, although in this case that means the cat name has to be longer. BTW, you can just leave responses here. I'll check. No sense in having the exact same messages in two places. CovenantD 20:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- As you wish. :)
- People voted delete to a category that had solid basis from a census (Hispanic one). As per that the category with no census to back it up should be speedied... I do not see a reasonable way to refine the category... It will be pov no matter what we try.
- -- Cat chi? 20:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- You probably know more about the ins and outs of Wikipolicy than I do. From the feelings and politics involved, I don't see getting consensus to delete. The best I see happening is a rename to something less vague. Kurdish inhabited regions based on a CIA map? I don't know... CovenantD 21:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Posible, perhaps: Category:Kurdish inhabited regions based on the map by the Centeral Intelligence Agency. Ah... the rant...
- Politics should not determine what is wikipedia worthy, wikipedia is not a soapbox (WP:NOT policy) for that. However you do have a point.
- It was fairly easy to get Syrian Kurdistan deleted (though I was not involved in any way). Turkish Kurdistan however is there.
- These articles and categories in my view fall under Wikipedia:Content forking, however I do not consider myself to be the most objective person in treating articles related to Kurdistan etc... I'd like you to have a read of it if you have the time.
- -- Cat chi? 21:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- I can't promise I'll get to them today, but I will put them on the short list. CovenantD 21:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hi, I want to ask some advice. Category:Hispanic inhabited regions was deleted with ease for being vauge even though a solid census provided data regarding Hispanic inhabitance. However Category:Kurdish inhabited regions survived two cfd's with no consensus even though it is much more vauge than the Hispanic counterpart as there isn't even a census to back up Kurdish inhabitance.
I feel some of the keep votes are politicaly motivated. How should I deal with this? -- Cat chi? 11:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Since it is more or less clear that the category is going to stay, it may be a good idea to ensure that it contains what it should contain. There's at least one piece of reliable information. Conscious 11:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I feel the category is being nothing but a pov fork... But that aside, how should I use the map? Tag everything inside the border as kurdish inhabited? Should Kurdish inhabited regions be a sub cat of Kurdistan? I really need guidance. -- Cat chi? 14:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- What you say sounds like a good idea to me... As for pov fork, I don't know. IMO "Kurdish inhabited regions" is a better category label for, say, Şırnak Province than "Kurdistan". It sounds more factual. Conscious 14:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I am still unconfortable in declaring a place kurdish inhabited w/o census data... -- Cat chi? 15:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what you intended with this article. We have a an article for Blog... -- Cat chi? 22:24, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- cp. Iranian blogs --Jpbrenna 22:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I'd prefer a reasoning. From my perspective both articles do not cover anything blog doesn't, both happen to be for link spam, and both can be argued to be pov forks...
- It would really help if I knew what they were for. Are they about the bloggs or people getting 'opressed'
- -- Cat chi? 23:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- They are about blogging in specific communities, like Canadian blogosphere and other articles on Wikipedia. It's true, the Kurdish and Iranian articles as they stand now are about one-half link repository; this should be corrected by destubbing the articles, not eliminating them. Article blog is not community-specific. We have articles separate from Education concerning Education in the United States and Education in France; I don't see how either of them are "POV forks," and I don't see how these blog articles are either. --Jpbrenna 01:50, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I wasn't going to prpose them for deletion. I just felt they needed some attention, which you agree.
- I am concerned about statemens such as "Blogging in Iran operates under special circumstances as the Iranian government tends to discourage self-expression" (weasle words, who says so) or "This is something they have not always been able to do via other media" (there were kurdish websites and Kurdish tv networks). Statements such as those imply "pov forking". Of course the intention wasn't that but it appears that way.
- Also I recomend a categorisation for all the "blog" related articles.
- -- Cat chi? 10:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I am a new user who found your page by just clicking through links and ended up at Prodego's page. I only know a very little about editing and stuff. Could you tell me where I can learn to write wiki markup and find all the stuff that I need to learn while being here, if there is such a place? Thanks. Twasmetrec 21:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I'll gladly try to help. But perhaps it is best to keep this as a Q&A -- Cat chi? 23:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Cool Cat, I got your comment. Thanks for agreeing to help me. I can always use all the help I can get. I like your name. I have a cousin that edits here and her name is Metrocat. She says it's pretty cool here but kind of weird. I can't remember the exact thing I was asking about, but when I do I'll ask you in a Q and A thing, I guess. Why do you want Q and A? Well thanks again for your support. Twasmetrec 08:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- The topic of editing wikipedia is a vast area. You do not need to know everything to edit. Based on questions, I can assist you in portions os wiki markup you are interested in. -- Cat chi? 11:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
"Now who will we go to when we are wiki-sick?"
What about those who are feeling wiki-sick because fo the positions of Doc and his friends, especially Tony Sidaway and Cyde? Jay Maynard 02:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Hello, I am not sure what you ment by that. Mind elaborating :) -- Cat chi? 11:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Currently, there is a debate on Talk:List of Lost episodes regarding whether or not use of a 1/30th stillframe visual excerpt next to a list of audiovisual works (such as List of Lost episodes or List of Star Trek: Enterprise episodes) is in accordance with WP:Fair use, and has even resulted in the protection of the page.
If you have any opinions regarding fair use on the List of Lost episodes page, please feel free to express them as I believe these two pages are sister projects.
Cws125 05:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I commented there -- Cat chi? 11:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
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Manga and Anime BarnSakura Award
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For the fact that every single anime article I ever look at seems to have you as a major editor, I award you this barnstarflower. -Goldom (t) (Review) 08:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
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- Domo arigaro Goldom-san -- Cat chi? 11:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
FYI, your Scout user box points to an old title of the Eagle Scout article. It's now called Eagle Scout (Boy Scouts of America). Rlevse 19:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thank you, fixed. I also noticed several BSA ranks went AFK (merged somehow). I restored those too. -- Cat chi? 20:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- They were mereged for a reason. I wish you hadn't done that. Rlevse 20:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I wish I was informed about this merge in march. The merged article is in my view a mess and I am quite experienced with featured lists. -- Cat chi? 20:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- It is not anyone's job to inform you personally of a merge. It's your responsibility to set a watch on an article of interest and respond to changes you see. I and others do not think they are a mess, it puts the info in one spot. You also took this action without any discussion and accuse Gadget, et al of no discussion, yet there was lots of it if you'd watched the articles, etc. Rlevse 20:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Ok here is how I will do this. I am going to forget about this issue for a day or two until things cool down. This is being highly unproductive. -- Cat chi? 21:08, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- You've no one but yourself to blame for this due to making wholesale changes without any chance for discussion whatsover; at least Gadget posted merge notices. Agree to a few day wait. Rlevse 21:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Please try to avoid large scale merges w/o discussion. I have restored the BSA rank articles... -- Cat chi? 19:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Merge tags were placed on each article on 16 Mar 2006. No objections were made on any of the individual articles, thus the merge was made 7 days later on 23 Mar. Discussion did take place, specifically on the Scouting portal and at Talk:Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)/Archive 1. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC) And at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/RulesStandards. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Wow- you've been busy today! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Not quite. My busy days have several hundered edits per day.
- I created all of those articles merged. Since my creation they were somewhat expanded (I was couting on someones eagle project covering the topic).
- The 7 day rule doesn't mean anything to me as I have thousands of articles on my watchlist. I think it wouldn't have hurt to inform me.
- I feel the individual rank articles have a potential to expand given time each rank has a history after all (see eagle article). A merge is unnecessary.
- -- Cat chi? 20:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Why is it okay for you to make wholesale reversions without any chance of discussion by others but Gadget can't make merges after posting merge notices? Rlevse 21:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Re Cool Cat's talk input of 7 June...I offer my talk page as a single point for this discussion. Rlevse 17:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
User: Clevelander has made some 10-15 consecutive edits in the Hamshenis page. He saves a page for each comma he has displaced which makes it rather difficult to find out what he has changed. I saw that he is of Armenian descent (therefore naturally interested in the stuff). I also saw that he has had a big dispute with fellow Armenians on the subject of pulling out Armenian Americans from a general List of Armenians article to include them in a self-made List of Armenian-Americans article. He lost the debate and now he is around here. I discussed with him briefly on Hamshenis talk page to see him off smoothly. He is gone now. He is in the neighborhood of Nagorno-Karabakh and Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline putting good order in those issues. On his way out, he discovered a sizable Georgian community in Ardahan and duly re-phrased the photograph caption, all this sitting behind a desk in Cleveland. I will wait a few days to make sure that he is busy tidying other parts of the world and then recuperate the Turkey-related articles he has been in. I think that is the best way to take this kind of contributor. She is putting good order to the world through an internet encyclopedia and won't leave before having planted a flag on a promontory.
If you are interested in sea mammals, check this [3]. It is not, of course, unless the wifey is from St. Louis and the mother is in Bali. But it is close (there are photographs), and sometimes even associable (they had to run for their lives during the 2004 tsunami). I don't like the letters DB anyway, they are always associable.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cretanforever (talk • contribs)
- [4]... I see he added 350,000 to the number of people in the table, removed Category:Ethnic groups in Turkey... Weasle words: Whether Christian or Muslim, most Armenians are willing to work with and try to understand their ethnic cousins. It isn't all that difficult. Problematic for certain.
- -- Cat chi? 21:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- What about http://www.dannyvanbelle.com ? I dont think I get the picture... -- Cat chi? 21:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
What I was referring to was the endless debate over userboxes. You'd commented that Doc Glasgow was someone to whom people could come when they were feeling wikisick...but he was one of the people causing it with his position in the userbox debates, along with Tony Sidaway and Cyde. They've all got me feeling sick and depressed because of the unilateral, scorched-earth, bullying tactics they've used to deny that Wikipedia is a community of diverse people with diverse interests and diverse PsOV.
Hence my question: Who do I turn to? Jay Maynard 21:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Err... Doc Glasgow is an awsome vandal fighter and a close friend. I'd gladly exchange him for all the userboxes on my userpage, and I am quite protective of them...
- POV boxes were declared bad by Jimbo Wales, as they started being counter productive... The second Jimbo made his ruling, the debate ended. Like it or not Jimbo Wales and WMF owns wikipedia servers. Doc was only enforcing that.
- -- Cat chi? 22:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Except that, by his own words, Jimbo was not making policy, and not encouraging people to go on a deletion spree. But that's neither here nor there, for the moment...I hate to see any valued contributor leave. I just wish that those on the other side of the issue saw that's what they're doing. Jay Maynard 22:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I for one see the entier userbox issue an exagaration. When the "war" broke out I subst: my userbox templates (none were political). Waited a month or two and found out my precation wasn't even necesary.
- I would wish to see people evolved culturaly beyond prejudice, sadly however there are many who disagrees with that kind of ideology. Userboxes with political or religious content facilitates and sparks this prejudice. Of course you taking the time talking to me aren't the prejudicing kind, but not everyone is like you.
- Some people have difficulty supressing their emotions and views, other than that they are excellent contributors. It would not be wise to slap a patriotic american with a userbox showing US army people beheaded etc. (and that user contributing to say Sep/11th attacks). Placing a limit to such cases is the problem, safest would be to delete anything political.
- -- Cat chi? 01:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- The problem I have is that it's the user's actions that count, not their beliefs. Only when their beliefs leak into their actions is it that it's a problem (and I'm not in any way trying to minimize it) for Wikipedia. Just because someone is a Republican and proud of it does not mean they're putting a Republican POV into their articles; indeed, it could well mean just the opposite. I put the User republican tag on my page, when I had them at all, so that others could watch and make sure I wasn't writing with that bias.
- In any event, this has all been hashed out at great (some might say, with justification, interminable) length other places. My comment was aimed more at the toll this has taken on me, personally. Jay Maynard 01:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- What about a userbox portaying blacks in general for being fundemetaly stupid or whites being arrogant, Japanese being tretrous, muslims barnaric... How is all that creating a friendly and civil environment? -- Cat chi? 23:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I am considering withdrawing my nomination since people are comlaining the silly about everything in no way in accordance with criteria.
Some of the oppose votes are for images being fair use, while another complains that dvd images are inaproporate and instead screenshots should be used (something whelmingly opposed on other noms). Some oppose because tables "look ugly".
What do you think. Does it have any chance of surviving the flc since I can't satisfy conflicting views... -- Cat chi? 13:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- As long as images have Fair Use rationales (and they do) the objection is not valid and thus I wouldn't consider it. Uglyness is a factor sometimes, but what people are expecting to see is a class="wikitable" sort of thing (so that's easily addressed). I haven't really gone through the nomination this time (fairly busy week at work) but I'd recommend you not to withdraw it. Good luck. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 13:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Ok. I'll wait then. :)
- class="wikitable" doesn't work properly on firefox on larger tables (and the one we have is decently large). The current table header is the modified version of wikitable compensating for the problem (and blue bg instead of grey).
- -- Cat chi? 13:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I am going to nominate this image for speedy deletion as now there is a .png version of the same image: Image:RedPencil.png. Any objections? -- Cat chi? 13:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- No objections from me. I only used it for a one-off at the Reference desk. - Nunh-huh 18:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Actually it might be best if you speedy deleted it yourself. :) -- Cat chi? 18:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Done. (How do you manage to have your talk page in such a nice font?) - Nunh-huh 19:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- User:Cool Cat/Talk Template does the trick. <div style="margin-left:6px; margin-right:6px; margin-top:6px; font-family: 'Georgia';"> to be more spesific. -- Cat chi? 19:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Probably beyond my ken ... doesn't that rely on no one messing up the closing div? Nevertheless, here goes nothing.... Nunh-huh 20:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Well... the dıv is intentionaly left broken so it apllies to all sections below it. I keep everything but usercomments on that sub page which makes it harder for people to mess with it... -- Cat chi? 17:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Whoooo! ORANGE! effeietsanders 20:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- This is a formal warning. Orange has been declared illegal! -- Cat chi? 20:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Reistance is futile. Orange will take over the world! Whoooo! effeietsanders 21:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I am Species 8471 in disguise, resistance is not futile... And borg prefers green. -- Cat chi? 21:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
We need a Turkish speaker to help us determine what to do with this mostly untranslated article. Could you please take a look and comment on the notability of this person? Thank you, Kusma (討論) 03:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Hi, I commented on the afd page. -- Cat chi? 10:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
The following articles have been updated. Links have been fixed, the requirement lists were switched to references and other general cleanup.
--Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
care to exchange designs? -- Cat chi? 17:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sure. Computerjoe's talk 18:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I would be interested in designing each other's page. However, I would like to know what exactly you are after. Computerjoe's talk 18:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Nothing in particular. Just the 'cultural'/'creative' exchange. -- Cat chi? 18:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Cool! Computerjoe's talk 18:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hmm.. such is wide spread. see: Category:Imposters of Cool Cat, Category:Imposters of Shanel etc -- Cat chi? 18:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Wow, I wasn't aware of that! What a strange world Wiki seems to be. Both examples you gave me are really below the belt. Are you not interested in getting deleted the category related to you? I must say I find it in bad taste! Bertilvidet 18:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- The categories help us keep track of such accounts. It is easier to make sure they stay blocked.
- Also people writing vandal fighting scrits use such usernames on the category to create better ways in detecting and blockıng such accounts often before they are ever used.
- Obviously I have not had sex with half a dozen wikipedia admins, so I do not see the problem with the category ^_^
- -- Cat chi? 19:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Interesting username, I am curious what inspired it. :) -- Cat chi? 17:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm glad you find my username interesting, thanks . There's no real inspiration behind it though. I simply put a group of words togeather and that's how the final result came out.
- Noble Skuld the Legend Killer 18:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Skuld is actually a legendary character in norse mythology as well as on the anime Oh My Goddess!. Cheers. -- Cat chi? 19:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/English_Wikipedia_Announces_Thousandth_Featured_Article
Heh you are famous now. I kida envy that. Congrats. -- Cat chi? 18:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hey Cool Cat, I'm actually quite disappointed, I was hoping for a BBC interview. :p Ciao, —Khoikhoi 00:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Selam.U still have not replied to my call on whether the statistics in Anatolian Turkish diaspora come from UMAK (i am sure u know if they are!). well, the result was, of cource 'keep', without me voting for 'delete'... Anyway, i would appreciate a reply on my question... Thanks. --Hectorian 00:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Konnichi wa! I have no idea where statistics on Anatolian Turkish diaspora came from. Have you tried reviewing Turkish people? It has some decent citation apperantly. Also if you are sure where they are from, why are you asking me? -- Cat chi? 11:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, i am asking u cause i am not sure, and i thought that u may be (since u edit a lot in turkish-related articles). I know about USAK... so, perhaps it would be better to remove the sentence that refers to it in Anatolian Turkish diaspora, since there is no source or link. Regards. --Hectorian 16:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I have no knowledge of ISRO, their activities, etc. I was even unaware of its existence until I inquired "Think Tank" article after watching Star Trek: Voyager episode "Think Tank".
- There are a vast number of articles related to Turkey, and I actually edit a very small minority. Most of my edits go to Japanese Anime and Star Trek.
- Why not ask someone who has been actually involved with that article?
- -- Cat chi? 18:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
CC: We've posted a message about the advancement articles on our ScoutingWikiProject's "Current Issues" section, here Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting/Todo#Current_issues to see what others think of what the state of the advancment articles should be. We'll wait a few days to see what, if any, input we get and go from there. FYI, the main project page is here Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting and the portal page is here Portal:Scouting . Rlevse 01:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- An excellent idea. Is it ok if I join the project? -- Cat chi? 11:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 12:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
CC: Silver comes before gold in Olympic medals, but not Eagle Palms--read up on it. The reason is that when palms were created, silver was worth more than gold, so silver was made the highest palm and BSA has never changed that. r/ Rlevse 20:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Oh... silly me :) -- Cat chi? 21:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for restoring that graphic! Cool Cat indeed! :) This was one of the images my Wife created for me, it means more than I can explain. Thank you so much. Chris 06:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- No problem, you might want to keep backups of important images. ;)
- -- Cat chi? 18:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
- Double-click on your PPK file and enter the password; this starts Pageant
- Find the Pageant icon in the system tray, right-click it and choose New Session
- Enter a name for the session, e.g. "Toolserver"; set the hostname to login-services.zedler.knams.wikimedia.org
- Choose the connection->data node from the left and enter your username under "auto login username"
- Choose the connection->ssh->auth node from the left
- Hit browse and select your PPK file
- Go back to the session node on the left
- Click Save
- Click Load
In future, just right-click the Pageant icon, point to Load Session, and click on your set-up session
Hope this helps. robchurch | talk 13:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Err? What was that about? -- Cat chi? 20:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I think I owe you an explanation. Sorry for any inconvenience or shock. The edit from the anon which you reverted yourself earlier today as vandalism contained personal information about someone who has been a victim of serious harassment, so I removed it from the history. Your page has now been restored. (It's a nice page, by the way.) See here for further information. Cheers. AnnH ♫ 20:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Oh I wasn't in shock, just the audio alert "Warning! User talk:Cool Cat has been deleted!" got me curious.. :) I actually never noticed the personal info :P
- All I have to say is, carry on. :)
- -- Cat chi? 20:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Comments such as "Otaku own the internet, and the Wiki, like the internet, bends to their wishes. " is not creating a pleasant environment and is most certainly not improving the article. May I ask what are you intending to achieve on Talk:Kawaii with such comments? -- Cat chi? 20:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- As a response to the user's obvious question, I felt it best to be blunt and a little "tongue in cheek". Simple explanation: is often used by writers as a warning that the following comment will be overly insensitive, due to time limitations, etc. Since I also forwarded him to longer, more accurate sources I don't feel my comment was out of place. I do believe that Chokaro's comment was also meant as "tongue in cheek", as nobody really plans on fighting any "wars" over Wikipedia. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 02:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I think an actual straight answer (as per consensus, see arcives) would be more aproporate. Referring to an otaku cabal is inaproporate and is no way to refer to fellow wikipedians (myself included).
- Chokaro's comment can be easily be interpreted as an invitation to a revert war. Please be sensative with your responses so as to make sure we avoid unnecessary confrontations.
- -- Cat chi? 11:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
- Inappropriate? Have you checked google lately?
- I assume you've read Wikipedia:Assume bad faith and I still don't see how my comments relate to you in the slightest. I would appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of seeking an "unnecessary confrontation" with you, when I have don't nothing of the sort. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 06:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- You were 'blaming' otaku for the existence of the Kawaii article, I find that attitude hostile and uncivil. Just because there are google hits doesn't give you the excuse to be uncivil. All I gave you was a friendly warning so that you evade a confortation with some other person (not me) which you interprted as an accusation... -- Cat chi? 13:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- While I understand that you feel something is uncivil, I still fail to see why. As a side, please don't bend the facts. ...is not creating a pleasant environment and is most certainly not improving the article sounds much more like an accusation than a warning to me. Usually friendly warnings work like "Hey, would you mind not saying stuff like that? I know you were just poking fun but it kind of bugs me" but then again, I don't really expect you to be friendly, and I don't mind being accused; you've been friendly enough to me before and I know basically what to expect of you. Also, I'd like to remind you again of something you said, May I ask what are you intending to achieve [...] with such comments?, which is clearly asking for my opinion on this matter, and I have respectfully done so. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 00:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. All I have to add to my previous statement is, avoid comnnets such as Otaku own the internet etc... This chain of comments is being most unproductive. -- Cat chi? 00:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I realised I havent yet created this anime an episode list... I think I will in a day or two (I generally create the hole thing in one edit) -- Cat chi? 21:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
- Funny I just happened to catch you creating that article (I was about to do the same), but I really don't think we should go with the OMG format with Air. By only having two episodes each, there is a LOT of wasted space. Personally, I think we should just move over the tables we already have in the main article. --SeizureDog 19:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- You see the raw version, I haven't even started. -- Cat chi? 19:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Still, that's twice as much space to fill per episode. What are you going to flesh it out with? Summary?--SeizureDog 19:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Isn't that how it is on OMG article? ;) -- Cat chi? 19:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Except for OMG the titles themselves take up 3 lines, and there are 3 episodes per disc instead of 2. You're going to have to write about x4 as much summary as OMG does if you don't want it looking empty.--SeizureDog 19:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- OMG has a simple story plot compared to Air's drama. I do not believe the 4x as much summary will be too challenging. -- Cat chi? 21:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- Don't forget that you also need to keep the spoiler count down in that x4 summary too though...--SeizureDog 21:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I actually need help with one mater. I am not certain with what dvd did the recap episode was given out with (if it was at all). -- Cat chi? 01:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Isn't it this?--SeizureDog 02:20, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
On another note, why is every DVD cover you put except for the first one different from the ones I'm finding on amazon.co.jp? looky It says you're finding these pictures on Amazon but what's your search term? I can't even FIND the freaking things in the English side. --SeizureDog 02:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I actually searched for "Air" on amazon.co.jp (remember, the name isnt avalible in kanji). There are a lot of false hits but eventually you get to the anime. There are two versions of the dvd covers. I picked the ones that featured the characters more, with the exeption if the first one which the alternative is ridiclously low on quality.
- Air hasn't been licensed in the US yet (to my knowledge) so it is quite normal why it is not on amazon.com.
- -- Cat chi? 04:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Silly me, I didn't open the images all the way. Seems that images.amazon.com hosts the images for all languages. Also, would you mind drawing up a character table such for the OMG characters? I could start working on those articles. I'm not sure how many fields will be needed though, as I'm not sure if there is random information for the characters height and such.--SeizureDog 04:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- It shall be done. -- Cat chi? 08:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure if Air is technically a series. A series implies sequels. Air just got remade...3 times. It's kinda like calling Romeo and Juliet a series when it has so many adaptations. Do I have a better suggestion? No. I just felt like pointing it out as it's likely to bug the hell out of me. Oh me and the things I focus on :P --SeizureDog 11:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- The anime has a ridiclously siple title... Air... I mean wtf were the creators thinking? Technically the OMG OVA and the OMG TV series are unrelated. OVA is a prarllel universe on its own detached even from manga. TV is... different from the manga. Movie is well also different. Mini series has a mind of its own. Its kinda the same deal with air just that air's stories are much closely related.
- I just dont like labeling Air as a game, an anime or a manga etc since its both and more...
- -- Cat chi? 15:21, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I am not good at fix html, but I noticed something wrong with this page. The American Officers is wrong. “Second Lieutenant” is O-1 and “General of the Army” is not O-10, but it is a rank reserved for war, which is correct. So, to fix the American Army ranks on this page, just move “First Lieutenant” to the O-2 position, and then move all the other ones up one and that will fix it, and in the O-10 position should be “General.” If someone could fix that, I would appreciate it, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.34.57.24 (talk • contribs)
- You are confusing US rating and NATO rating. See U.S. Army officer rank insignia for both of them. -- Cat chi? 13:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
It is not currently protected. I think it should probaly not be described as such until it is. having said that, iI do ot see any point in reverting it. You could ask User:dvib to protect it, he is fairly responsive, and deleted it originally.Dolive21 15:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Working on it. Take a deep breath and give me a few minutes/hours... -- Cat chi? 15:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Check Excel Saga, they have some pretty good sources and ideas in their article.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I appreciate the time you took to discuss your case with me on IRC earlier and especially your willingness to help prevent its escalation. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Thank you for allowing MedCab to mediate your case! ~Kylu (u|t) 15:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Cool Cat, why are you creating all these Air character stubs like Michiru? WP:FICT suggests characters be discussed in the article about the show unless the content is too long to justify, which doesn't seem to be the case here.--Kchase02 T 08:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Take a deep breath and wait a day or two...
- I was requested to create a template for characters and went ahead and created the stubs as well. Michiru for example is very important to the plot of the anime and has apeared in multiple episodes...
- Also Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) is not a policy but a guideline, it is a recomendation not a rule.
- -- Cat chi? 09:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- I was quoting it as a guideline. I'll admit I'm a little trigger happy about character stubs b/c I recently had to deal with this guy.--Kchase02 T 21:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Oh a vandal using cartoon characters... Someone just isn't creative... You might want to post the issue on Wikipedia talk:Counter-Vandalism Unit -- Cat chi? 01:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I see that you find it hard to stay away from me and my edits, and do a lot of research regarding my activities on Wikipedia. I guess that now, nothing will prevent me from investigating your edits and add relevant evidence regarding your continued POV editing and other violations to your most recent ArbCom case. -- Karl Meier 21:21, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Hmm? I was asked to comment there via email. You seemed to have predetermined conclusions... That is no way to start any investigation. In any case, be my guest to review my edits and present them at arbcom case.
- Only edits that can be viewed as somewhat contraverisal was in Batman, Turkey. I objected the cities ethnic clasification as "kurdish dominant" when such thing cannot be based on any reliable data and that such a thing should be presented as a "claim" in the light of WP:NPOV, WP:Cite etc... I really have nothing to hide, I never had.
- What I call "a lot of research" is the evidence I collected against Moby Dick. IIRC you were present on that ANB/I discussion.
- -- Cat chi? 21:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- To present edits that are more than half a year old does indeed take a lot of research, and that is what you just did. Anyway, as you clearly refuse to stay away from me and my edits I will feel free to examine your diffs. Whether or not your edits has been against policy is something then something that the ArbCom will make a decision about. -- Karl Meier 21:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I picked an article randomly that you have edited recently, Ali Sina. At random and reviewed the past 1000 edits reviewing your reverts. My monobook highlights administrators so its fairly easy to notice an administrator reverting you...
- You seem to be alarmed when people monitor/review your edits. It is curious however the behaviour that alarms you is the behaviour you indulge yourself most...
- Whether or not your edits has been against policy is something then something that the ArbCom will make a decision about as well...
- -- Cat chi? 22:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- In any case what is the purpose of this talk page msg? -- Cat chi? 22:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I think Air (series) structuring is complete. Feel free to expand character and series artciles... :) -- Cat chi? 16:13, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Nice :) Btw, what the hell would you say is Yukito's hair color? It goes from gray to lavender to freaking purple (movie mostly). Also, do the character infoboxes have the ability to show multiple screenshots like for the OMG characters? I think showing the differences in style can be pretty important for this series, especially with Misuzu as she looks like 5 years older in the movie. --SeizureDog 16:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Umm... "Gray/lavender/purple"?
- The character infobox is a modified version of the OMG infobox and only redundent parameters like "Angel" "Dimension" (etc) are removed. It can have the extra images just like the OMG infobox.
- -- Cat chi? 16:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Mk. Also, I think the "first appearance" field should be changed to "era" or something. Seeing how most everyone is introduced in the first episode. It's not as staggered as OMG. lol, funny thing just happened though. I was looking at Misuzu's article and I suddenly just saw the phrase "soul bears" and I was like "wtf is a soul bear?" The full phrase was "Thus, each incarnation of Kanna (e.g. Misuzu) will eventually die after she has found true happiness and friendship, alone, without ever having had the chance to heal the wounds that Kanna's soul bears." lawl, soul bears XD--SeizureDog 16:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Done. "First apearance" field is gone and "Era" is introduced.
- Ya... soul bears.. :P
- -- Cat chi? 17:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Johnleemk | Talk 17:13, 16 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Talk:Kemal_Atatürk
Cretanforever
commons:User:Hasan Sami Bolak has uploaded many images, citing only the website (in Turkish, I assume) but not giving any copyright tags. There are numerous messages in commons:User talk:Hasan Sami Bolak but I'm not sure the person understood that apart from citing the source one has to also give licencing info. for all the uploaded images. Can you try requesting (preferably in Turkish) to add licence tags?
Probably you could also offer some insight into the licencing info. of some of these images from what is mentioned (again, I assume, in Turkish) in commons:Image:Nihan Bolak tavşanıyla...JPG, commons:Image:Süleymaniye Camii-İstanbul.jpg. Thanks! -- Paddu 23:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Alright, I have talked to him. I also arranged the expansion of the tag which now has Turkish. -- Cat chi? 12:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, and thanks for adding a Turkish translation as well. -- Paddu 15:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Johnleemk | Talk 10:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
It is now fixed. Since these are norse goddesses, I think we are looking at Classical element -- Cat chi? 09:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for sorting the element link out from the Oh My Goddess infoboxes. LeeG 11:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Anything for Skuld :) -- Cat chi? 12:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi Cool Cat. I noticed that you've been involved with the archive header templates (e.g. {{Archive}} or {{Talkarchive}}) in one way or another and I was wondering if you'd care to join the discussion over at Wikipedia talk:How to archive a talk page#Archive standards. I plan on writing a bot that will do some archival work, so establishing consensus on the use of our archive header templates is important to me. Thanks! ~MDD4696 16:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Cool Cat, I've joined WikiProject Turkey and I was wondering if you can help me with some articles.
I'm trying to write an article on the Turkish motor industry; could you help me?? I noticed you're
a member there, so I'd ask you! (since you take part so much!) --Sunholm(talk) 17:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Greetings. What kind of assistance do you desire? -- Cat chi? 18:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Can you find some info on the Turkish motor industry for me?? (BTW, you are a good editor, no doubt about that!) --Sunholm(talk) 18:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I am flatered. But I can only find spesific information. I would use google to find the info which you can use w/o me. I am not certain how you want me to proceed. -- Cat chi? 21:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Turkish Automotive Manufacturers Association I had in mind articles on the same subject as well as the shipbuilding industry too. Much work these days. Cretanforever.
Greetings, I noticed you redirected this to the proposed policy/guideline Wikipedia:Survey notification. Would you mind just leaving it as it is? It's a complementary shortcut to WP:NOVOTE. If Wikipedia:Survey notification is adopted... the question of that redirect should be revisted. Thanks. Netscott 14:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Hmm... I dont know, how about making it a disambiguation page. The "Vote Stacking" really needs a good shortcut. I am open to suggestions as always. -- Cat chi? 14:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- WP:NOTSPAM? WP:NOTIFY? WP:NOTIFICATION? I welcome you to respond here without the need to crosspost on my talk page. Thanks. Netscott 14:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Well, the riginal name of the policy was "Vote stacking". Maybe a WP:Stack -- Cat chi? 14:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- And WP:VOTESTACK as well... that would be equally memorable. Netscott 14:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Ah, additionally it appears that you only created WP:Stack. Normally shortcuts are made with caps, so you might want to make WP:STACK as well. Take it easy. Netscott 15:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hi Cool Cat. I was reading your user page and I saw that you're a Computer Engineering major... cool! I am too. Furthur down I saw that you put an exclamation point after Atheism. I'm not sure what that means. Did you intend to emphasize that atheism is not a religion, or something else? I'm just curious. ~MDD4696 21:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Oh, it is just that being accused of being an atheist and a muslim was kinda funny since the two religions arent compatible. I do not reveal the faith I believe in or weather I believe in one. ;)
- Atheisms claisfication (weather its a religion or not) is a controversial issue which I'd rather not get indulged in
- -- Cat chi? 21:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'll get into it though ... of course atheism isn't a religion. In addition to the simple meaning of the word, it shares nothing in common with religions ... there's no organized hierarchy of atheists, there's no irrational beliefs, no faith, etc. --Cyde↔Weys 22:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Well, some argue the absence of religion itself is a religion...
- Many wars are fought over religion even in this century. The idea of dying in the name of a religion is a very dangerous ideology. It basically allows one to shut off moral center.
- My view is that religion is a topic best kept alone. Everybody is free to believe in what they believe in and no one should impose their beliefs on others. If only we followed a Prime Directive, life would be much better on the planet.
- -- Cat chi? 22:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
There are many wikipedia guidelines, many often conflict each other. Guidelines are ment to guide users in writing high quality articles and are not absolute. If the application of a guideline degrades article quality, I am more than willing to ignore it.
Some wikiprojects set their own guidelines such as the one ned 'works' at (has a total of 6 members I believe). Nothing compels me to follow their 'standards', especially if the format I use is used on 3 featured lists, all three I used. He is telling me that I cannot use DVD covers on that list I have initiated. He has no such authority, no one does. Consider this change [5] in the name of guidelines.
My comment originaly was protesting against the application of WP:FICTION on stub articles I created. Now I intend to expand them in time, I cannot do that in an hour. The creation of the stubs happened less than a week ago. People started talking about mergers before I could even rewatch the series.
This whole thing is pretty silly, I know but it is not a content dispute. Ned just want the articles to appear exactly how he wants them. He does not contribute to the articles much. Prior to june he had no contribution to air at all.
-- Cat chi? 04:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually there has been at least 16 editors who've listed themselves as a participant of WikiProject LOE. Granted the project went a bit inactive for a while, these style guidelines were always apart of the project. And note, that's just how many who've added themselves to a list or category. WikiProjects don't really have "members", but rather, they're a place for anyone to discuss and form ideas about a similar topic that applies to many articles. And all the ideas were taken from active episode list articles, using their discussions, ideas, and layouts as well. Many more editors are involved than just those who add a userbox to their userpage. This is not "our" standards, but Wikipedia's standards. I never said you couldn't use DVD covers, I just said it looked ugly to place them on the sides of the lists like that. The reason people talk about mergers before YOU can start editing and re-watching stuff is because they are not YOUR articles. These articles belong to all of us, as fans and as Wikipedians. You really should include other people. -- Ned Scott 05:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- This hole thing started when I answered this request. I made this fatal edit for which Ned had practicaly punished me. neds other contribution on Talk:List of Lost episodes is also visible. In sum I am being punished for making a remark. -- Cat chi? 04:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- That is the first time I recall coming across you, but no, I am not mad about that, I am not punishing you for that. For any actions that you have taken that I have objected to, there are true and valid reasons for my objections. -- Ned Scott 05:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I'll just say a few things about that. First off, I think the the times when guidelines should not be followed are rare exceptions, not the rules, and I don't think I'm alone in that view. Secondly, it does seem that he is discussing this. If consensus goes against him and he continues to revert, then there's something actionable. Thirdly, I personally detest stubs and believe that everyone should make use of workspaces to get a good sized article before posting (and I was a big supporter of WP:FICT). Finally, there's nothing wrong with jumping into a new article and making changes to a page so long as you don't go against the feeling of the other editors, which can be determined through discussion. --InShaneee 04:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- OK consider this. You start edititing an article (you initiate it) and this third party comes and dictates it. List of Oh My Goddess episodes List of Planetes episodes List of Fullmetal Alchemist episodes follow the style I want for List of Air episodes. Is there any reason you would object to that?
- Would you object to stub articles the second you notice them or would you give them like a month or a week?
- -- Cat chi? 04:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- You consider your fellow anime editors a "third party"? Initiation for an electronic document doesn't mean you were the one to start writing about the subject, ether. Even if it was, that does not make other editors a third party, or give you any more say in an article than your fellow editors. -- Ned Scott 05:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I dont quite follow this.... -- Cat chi? 07:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Your comment, "I will continue that revert war as long as it takes." is highly inappropriate. Revert warring is specifically against Wikipedia policy (see the bold part in this paragraph). If you decide to continue in a revert war, you may be blocked from editing on Wikipedia for a period of time.
I would hate to do this as I think you are a good editor and you have made many, many good contributions to Wikipedia. However, disruptions that threaten the general peace on Wikipedia can not be tolerated. I strongly recommend that you engage in civil discussions with Ned Scott and try to work out any differences of opinion you have about the List of Air episodes article on the talk page. Thank you. (^_^) ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Sorry I dislike to be bullied. I have no issues with ned. I was haply editing the article until he arived and dictate it. If such behaviour is acceptable, so are revert wars. I am sick and tired of getting stalked. Even with overwheling evidence I only get a slowly progressing Arbcom case which only allows the stalker to come back with a sock. ned perhaps isn't Davenbelle/Moby Dick but as much anoying. -- Cat chi? 14:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I see you revert me between edits. May I inquire the reason for the hurry? -- Cat chi? 15:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- "hurry" is relative. But I am free to correct what I interpret is the misuse of {{Infobox animanga}} fields. --TheFarix (Talk) 16:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I do not believe I am misusing the template. Who determines what constitutes as a misuse? -- Cat chi? 19:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- WikiProject Anime and manga -- Ned Scott 03:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Wikiprojects dont run the show. And I really hate when an uninvited party interferes with my convo. -- Cat chi? 17:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The default 250px as it is now defeates the point of size parameter. Does it not? -- Cat chi? 19:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, it doesn't. The way the paramaters are set up currently make the size parameter the senoir parameter of the two. Should it be left blank, the image box defaults to the original. However, if {{{size|250px}} is used, it will cause an error in some templates. Should someone declare the parameter with "size = ", but not give a value, the image will not display. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Oh I see. Thanks then. ^_^ -- Cat chi? 22:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Good choice of name! CoolGuy 02:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thanks. :) -- Cat chi? 16:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I have created a straw poll in hopes of quickly resolving the dispute over List of Air episodes. Talk:List of Air episodes#Straw poll for which episode table to use. I strongly encourage everyone to share their opinion and vote. -- Ned Scott 03:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hey, you had a good description for this. Unfortunately, certain trivia and other stuff relates to episode 40 and not 51. I started to edit what actually happened: convo between Kabuto and Orochimaru, Kabuto trying to eliminate Sasuke, etc but I lost connection or hit back and it all got erased. :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.191.118.9 (talk • contribs)
- That info is stored on the chache of your browser. If its gone, nothing can bring it back. -- Cat chi? 16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:BSA_Scout.gif. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.
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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I recently welcomed User:Coolcat789, this name is quite similar to yours, i'm not really sure what to do but I thought i'd let you know anyway. MichaelBillington 02:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I thank you for notifying me. User creation log indicate the account in question was created by User:Coola1800 at 21:15 hours UTC on 22 June 2006. Same log indicate that account for User:Coola1800 itself was created quite some time ago at 20:27 hours UTC on 27 April 2006. Neither user has any edits.
- Judging from the absence of other accounts, I conclude that these are not created from the use of a public computer or a proxy which would be expected from an impersonator.
- Creating multiple accounts without using either is strange to say the least but so far nothing implies impostoration. Hence we should treat him like a legitemate user. Haveing said that, staying vigilant would be a prudent course of action. I'll watch "both" of them for a while.
- -- Cat chi? 06:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Already had him, but did it again. He uses several ips. Fred Bauder 12:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Hi, Cool Cat. My Japanese is still horrible, so can I inquire a favor..? I would appreciate a translation of the test on these pages: Ajim and Guerilian, Z-Gradt and Shadow VR. The translations can be copied to Talk:Virtuaroid -ZeroTalk 13:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I really know very little japanese, my knowledge of japanese script is however at much more laughable levels. You might want to chack for a native speaker or a level 3 or 4 by using the ja-category. -- Cat chi? 13:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Do you perhaps know of anyone who can translate...? This data is really quite relevant to the article. -ZeroTalk 13:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Category:User ja-N, Category:User ja-4, and Category:User ja-3 has the list of people with good knowledge of japanese. I do not know anyone who would translate a page and ask random users/people to translate from time to time. -- Cat chi? 13:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'll look about the cateogry and see how it goes. I'm not familiar with any of these editors. -ZeroTalk 13:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- That the beulty of user categories. Go ahead, seek out new life! :) -- Cat chi? 13:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, but I'm a wiki-hermit. :) -ZeroTalk 17:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- P.S.: Could you please copy merely your reply note if you reply on my talkpage instead of the entire conversation...? Thanks. :)
Thanks for the new image on the POV template, CC. It looks really nice, and much less aggressive. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thank you for your kind words. -- Cat chi? 02:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Template_messages/Disputes there are other neutrality (NPOV related) templates. Do you think it would be aproporate to use the image on them as well?
- If so would you mind doing the honors?
- -- Cat chi? 02:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Why does the other template look better? I modified it to look almost identical. (it has a few optional parameters allowing me to use dvd covers more efficiently) -- Cat chi? 02:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hi, I'm not sure how to explain why does the other template look better, it's just an aesthetic thing I guess. Personal preference. _dk 03:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Our taste in tables dont seem to be matching then. Hypoteticaly, would it bug you if my version was used? -- Cat chi? 03:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Not at all, if consenus decides that your version gets used. _dk 03:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I do not like this idea of a "consensus". After all, I am the person writing the article. I should be free to choose any style I wish, asuming it is legable/workable.
- Wikiprojects cannot and should not dictate what I can and cannot do and I feel this is what it is about.
- -- Cat chi? 04:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Er...let me try to put this in a way where it doesn't sound offensive, hopefully. You are not the only person writing the article, and we should all try to respect each other's views when cooperating on an article. That is why we need consensus. Wikiprojects, as you said, cannot dictate what individual editors do, but they provide coordination and consistency for a subject area.... And that is needed for the benefit of the readers, as the readers are, ultimately, who Wikipedia serves. _dk 04:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Yes, wikiprojects bring coordination and consistency. Neither the difference in the templates, nor the debate provide any additional consistency. Both list provide same info in almost identical manner and are consistent with norms. Coordination means they work as a group to improve a list, not dictate it. They as a group should be working for a consensus, willing to compromise. I compromised, why cannot they?
- The OMG template was created long before its counterpart as a part of Anime wikiproject. The LOE wikiproject replace the OMG usage (as it did on exel saga as they proudly express it) generating inconsistancy. Anime wikiproject should be coordinating anime related articles for consistancy.
- The point is, is the difference in the two versions worth the effort?
- -- Cat chi? 10:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Lets settle this with a compromise. So far I have compromised the thick borders (with delight might I add). I also converted the template to folow the "LOE" table markup.
So far you have not compromised at all. Now I request to be able to use whats left of my tables. The only difference currently is where kanji, romaji, and episode numbers appear. I prefer my syntax.
Perhaps that could be applied to the LOE template? Or a new LOE template for articles using dvd covers?
-- Cat chi? 06:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- As a gesture of good faith I have removed thick borders on every page I used my syntax on with the exeption of locked air list. -- Cat chi? 06:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I await your response anxiously. -- Cat chi? 07:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Since you have responded to a comment I make on the talk page of the List of air episodes I believe you have noticed this post. While you have the liberty to reply at your conviniance, please respond confirming you are considering the suggestion. -- Cat chi? 03:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Why would I compromise something that isn't just my view, but the view of many editors, and is backed by logic? I'm all for getting along with you, but I won't sacrifice these issues for the sake of appearing friendly. I don't have much reason to trust you, ether. Sure, you are speaking of compromise and collaboration now, but is that only because you have been backed into a corner with no choice? I noticed on some of your archived talk pages that one editor reminded you to put fair use rational statements on images, and your response was something to the extent of "I don't have to do what anyone tells me to do". It was only until it was a requirement of the featured lists and it was brought up during the OMG candidacy that you complied, when you had no other choice. We will make some sort of peace with each other, surely, but not by sacrificing editing values. -- Ned Scott 06:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- In war there are only two ways to peace. Either through one sides surrender, or both sides compromise. What you ask of me is unconditional surrender.
- View of many editors are met. That is why I compromised by modifying my version of the template. I have taken into account their arguments especially about "easy use". The template now is almost identical to the LOE template with a few minor differences. The point of a compromise is to let go certain things you disagree with as should the other party.
- I am making an effort to settle this in a civil and cooperative environment. Both sides made mistakes such as revert warring. In a cooperative environment, no one is cornered.
- Oh and btw, OMG achieved fac w/o the fair use rationales (see timestamp of the addition of the rationnale). I added that later on after someone bothered to expain me the reasonings behind fair-use rationales via IRC. I not only agreed with his reasonings, but became an advocate of the issue. I am not as close minded as you portray me.
- What is it that you do not trust about me? I havent deceived you or anything have I?
- -- Cat chi? 11:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I created this wiki but maybe I should have read something on how to do it first. if you had time I was wondering if you wouldnt mind helping make any edits. Ill be working on it too. also, if you wouldnt mind, please post a link on my talk page or something I can use because I have no idea how to communicate with other users. and you seem like a cool cat and all ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeydo (talk • contribs)
- Alright, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) is the guideline you may want to observe.
- My reccomendation is writing one or two line summaries for individual naruto episodes on List of Naruto episodes first.
- I'd be more than happy to answer individual questions. Just a general one is hard to answer.
- -- Cat chi? 12:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
As per this edit, I request you check other anime episodes I have been involved with. See: User:Cool Cat/Office for other episode lists I participated. :) -- Cat chi? 20:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
- If you look at Template talk:Japanese episode list under Using the template, you'll see that the standard is 98% and not 100%, so I changed it accordingly. Actually, it was because I brought up the point to Ned Scott that he changed it from 100% to 98% because of the horizontal scrolling bar that appears on the MSN browser that I use, if not others, but I'm not sure if it affects any other browsers the same way.--Juhachi 20:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Why must you cite a reason? I am assuming good faith and do not desire nor require a detailed explanation.
- I was only asking you to make similar modifications on all other episode lists on my office and check for other problems that might exist with msn browser.
- -- Cat chi? 20:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, well I misread it then; sorry. I've made the same modification to the Planetes and FMA lists too.--Juhachi 20:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Thank you. Please let me know if any of the lists break with any browser. I;ll do my best to make it compatible with all browsers or at least I will try ;) -- Cat chi? 03:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
98% width issue
edit
The 98% isn't important. It was a minor adjustment so some browsers wouldn't show a horizontal scroll bar when rendering the Wikitable. It's not really apart of any guideline. -- Ned Scott 22:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Editing wikipedia is quite possible w/o a guideline or a straw poll. With little care, pages can look perfectly on multiple browsers. -- Cat chi? 01:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, no, you prove that wrong. Normally people accept progress, instead of hanging on to "their things". -- Ned Scott 03:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Sorry what progress are we talking about? What is the point of that comment? -- Cat chi? 03:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
- Lets take the example of the Air nav templates. How many times did you revert me on that before taking it into consideration? Take the bold table lines, how long did it take for you to question that it might be a simple bug and not a requirement? Why is it that we must corner you in order for you to realize simple things? Look at your attitude towards official guidelines and WikiProjects. Of course they're not the final word, and no one is expected to live in "fear" of them. But rather than you looking at them and saying "hey, I bet there was a conversation behind that and I bet someone made a really good point that lead to that being a guideline." Rather, you ignore it all together, despite when other editors cite it as something helpful, directly to you. I forget where it says, but I believe there's another statement or guideline about guidelines themselves, and it says it's more important to follow them in spirit than word for word. You lack the collaborative spirit, you lack trust in your fellow Wikipedians. We take ideas from all of us and try to take the best parts and go forward. These things you think are my ideas, aren't my ideas. They're ideas I took from someone else, that they took from someone else, etc. It's been very hard to get you to think outside your editing style. I'm not telling you this to be rude, I'm telling this to you because I really want you to realize it. -- Ned Scott 03:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Lets take example of air templates. You revert warred against me. Have you not? Have you attempted explaining yourself? Have you attempted a compromise? I had to get a 3rd person to come up with a 3rd version in between. Have you taken my version into consideration?
- I believe (without quoting a guideline or polcy) that it is imperative for wikipedia pages to be rendered correctly on all browsers. At the very least an effort should be made to make pages work on multiple browsers. My views on the necesity of thick borders have not changed. I pashionately support the think borders. While being slightly ugly, thick boreds work well on firefox. But I compromised something I pashionately believe in to cool of the heat of the debate. Somebody has to pull his hand off the triger...
- Who is we? Who do you talk behalf of? Who is cornering me? What kind of an attitude is "cornerring"? I do not believe I have been cornered. I can just as easly continue the revert war.
- My attitude towards wikiprojects is in accordance with Wikipedia:Wikiproject, a WikiProject is a collection of pages (just a list of links) devoted to the management of a specific family of information within Wikipedia. It is a resource to help coordinate and organize article writing. Nothing more, nothing less. Wikiprojects have no juristiction in any way nor are they in any way official. Wikiprojects do not set standards.
- I do not ignore guidelines, I am just not obsessed about them. I edit in good faith developing a chain of articles. If a guideline or policy is making my life complicated, I forget about it until I have a working article. Then I consider weather or not applying the policy improves the articles value (Wikipedia:Ignore all rules). Wikipedia is NOT a burocracy. Also which guideline am I allegedly not following?
- I think it was you not trusting me (for whatever the reason). I do however trust you. I know for certain you don't vandalise articles. Nor do I consider you to be a threat to wikipedia. I monitor every edit of people I do not "trust" such as User:MARMOT.
- I colaborate just fine, assuming I am beeing talked to. I prefer to resolve disputes with diplomacy and discussion. I prefer to discuss matters with other editors rather than forcing it as a standard or via a straw poll.
- Again who is we? The Borg? Whoes input are we talking about? Certinly not my input... that has been actively dismissed at Template talk:Japanese episode list. I am not sure which ideas are we discussing, but the origin does not matter.
- If you want me to consider something, you should talk to me and tell me precisely what I should consder. I was unaware that I had an editing pattern...
- It was very late when I was posting this. If something doesn't make any sense its probably because I am sleepy. :) I'll correct any such error later on.
- -- Cat chi? 04:47, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
This guy keeps adding some extremely POV sentences on Turkey's history in the Turkey article. Earlier he used to do it as an anon, but now he's got a user name I think he's gone over 6 reverts now. Im a novice at WP, so can you report this guy to the admins for breaking the 3RR ?
Thanks KSK
- Done. See 3rr page -- Cat chi? 00:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot! ...but he's back again. This time as User:Lifer00. *sigh* --KSK 05:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- His presistance is, directly proportional to the length of the block. Hence why he is indefinately blocked. -- Cat chi? 08:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I really apriciate that correction of your however there seems to be a problem with the script. See this diff: [6]
Please do not interprete this msg as a discouragement. -- Cat chi? 15:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, I was using Firefox when that correction to your page was made... Sorry about that. --JDtalkemail 15:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- No need to apologise, was just pointing out a bug. I know how annoying those can be... :) -- Cat chi? 15:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Please kindly discuss your concerns on the Talk page, so that other editors also become aware of those issues. I believe we can address and resolve them in a constructive manner.Heja Helweda 20:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Negative, I do not consider myself objective enough to determine neutrality. The template requests review from a neutral and uninvolved party and should stay until such a person stumbles upon. -- Cat chi? 20:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Do you know any neutral editor who is willing to help?Heja Helweda 20:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Well If I asked people I knew, there is a risk that they would lean toward my views as likely they would ask me for input. I want the review(s) to be impartial. -- Cat chi? 21:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
hi there. I know that this article has caused serious headache and problem to you in the past. Fadix who was the main trouble maker there left wiki for good. maybe now you can consider coming back and helping us for the sake of Neutrality. see u.neurobio 11:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Greetings. The reason I am not very active on that particular article was not Fadix (I am not intimidated by incivility and other nonsense). Until 23:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC), I intend to stay away from that article as per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek
- I am not very knowlegable on the issue. But articles pathetic shape is so apperant, it does not require knowledge (there was a propoganda posters at a point).
- What I might recomend is arbitration to resolve the current nonsense going on mostly on the talk page.
- -- Cat chi? 12:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
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