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Template:Did you know nominations/British logistics in the Western Allied Invasion of Germany

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 23:09, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

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British logistics in the Western Allied Invasion of Germany

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Created by Hawkeye7 (talk). Self-nominated at 04:04, 17 September 2022 (UTC).

  • Review
General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

  • Adequate sourcing: No - Checking quotes is complicated by the use of quotation marks to indicate colloquialism or codewords, e.g. "pepperpot tactics". I didn't find any real quotations.
  • Neutral: No - The title and framing of the article as "British" is an issue when the forces were "Anglo-Canadian" and the Canadians were explicitly organised as a separate national force. One might say that it was the British Empire but the word Commonwealth is often used for the Dominions in this context. It's not clear to me what the actual scope is supposed to be. Just 21st Army Group?
  • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Yes

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - The fact seems to relate just to Operation Veritable. But our article about the Western Allied invasion of Germany says "In preparation for the Allied invasion of Germany east of the Rhine, a series of offensive operations were designed to seize and capture the east and west bank of the Rhine: Operation Veritable and Operation Grenade in February 1945, and Operation Lumberjack and Operation Undertone in March 1945, these are considered separate from the main invasion operation." So, there's a scope issue. Also the word "dumping" seems ambiguous as it might mean discarding. "Stockpiling" might be clearer.

Image eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: This is another impressive blockbuster but the title of the article and the hook need work, please. The pictures suggest an ALT. Something like "...that Anglo-Canadian logistics for the invasion of Germany used buffaloes, ducks and weasels?" Andrew🐉(talk) 11:28, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I would have liked to mention Operation Veritable in the proposed hook but had problems getting it in under the 200 character limit. Operation Lumberjack was the US Twelfth Army Group's advance to the Rhine in February 1945. It was a preliminary to Grenade, as it was necessary to first secure the Roer dams. As noted in the article, Grenade was the US Ninth Army part of the Pincer operation. I regret that the articles on the battles of 1945 are in poor shape.I hope to improve them over time but the would be a major project.

The US had its own logistics organisation, known as the Communications Zone; its role in the 1945 campaigns will be covered in an upcoming article, "American Logistics in the Western Allied Invasion of Germany". While the 21st Army Group was primarily a British and Canadian force, with a division from from Poland, brigades from Czechoslovakia, Belgium and the Netherlands, and some smaller contingents from other countries like Australia, the logistical system was British and came under the 21st Army Group. Stacey explains (p. 624):

As early as the beginning of 1943, it was evident that any concept of a completely self-contained Canadian Army, with its own supply-line stretching from the manufacturer in Canada to the troops in the field, would have to be abandoned. For one thing, a separate Canadian base organization, which would have been necessary under such a system, would have been too costly in. terms of manpower. In addition, the exigencies of battle might make it necessary at any time for Canadian divisions to be placed under the command of a British corps or for British divisions to be placed under the command of a Canadian corps, and under any such arrangement dual lines of supply would have been a vexatious complication. Thus, throughout the campaign in North-West Europe, there was virtually no separate Canadian supply organization other than what existed within First Canadian Army itself. The great majority of Canadian requirements, including ordnance stores, ammunition, petroleum products, most engineer, medical and dental stores, rations, office machinery and other supplies, were provided through British channels. Canadian units indented for warlike stores direct to their division's Ordnance Field Park, which carried stocks of spare parts for mechanical transport, small arms, armament, signal stores, and engineering equipment, as well as complete wireless sets and small arms. Bulk demands for artillery equipment, clothing and general stores were sent periodically by the formation's R.C.O.C. staff to a British Advanced Ordnance Depot.

I might add this to the article. I have added your suggested hook as ALT1. Reviewer would have to AGF as sources are offline. The original hook was chosen because its source was viewable online. "Dumping" is the correct by the way; the ammunition was already stockpiled in the maintenance area.


Cheers. Hawkeye7 (discuss)

Good point about the logistics being British. I'm content with the ALT1 hook and that makes the "dumping" issue moot. If we go with that hook, then a picture would give away the nature of the buffaloes, ducks and weasels so I suppose we can shoot for the quirky slot instead. Let's move it along... Andrew🐉(talk) 23:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
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