Talk:William Golding

Early Life

47 Mount Wise is in Newquay, not St Columb Minor. He was therefore born in Newquay.Donkfest1 (talk) 19:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Donkfest1Donkfest1 (talk) 19:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

As stated above, 47 Mount Wise is in Newquay, not St Columb Minor. I accept that Newquay was once within St Columb Minor parish. However, Newquay parish was created in 1882 and included Mount Wise. He was therefore born in Newquay, hence my edit.Donkfest1 (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The reference we have, from the ODNB says he was born in Mount Wise, St Columb Minor. We have to go with what the citation actually says. DuncanHill (talk) 20:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

According to the Cornish Church Guide Newquay became an ecclesiastical parish in 1918, however the civil parish is what is relevant for the place of birth. Mount Wise is a road in the western part of Newquay.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

According to [Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Newquay/] the date of the ecclesiastical parish is 1882 so 1918 must be wrong; establishing the civil parish could have happened at a later date which would tend to corroborate ODNB's statement.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

All of the above notwithstanding Duncan, Mount Wise is and always has been part of Newquay. It is not St Columb Minor. I speak with a little authority on this as I have lived in the town for the whole of my life. St Michaels Church, the main church in the town is only a matter of 100 or so yards from 47 Mount Wise. Towns can spread over more than one parish which often do not have the same name as the town. It makes no sense to state he was born in St Columb Minor. I am therefore changing it again. I will leave it to you to cite another reference. Donkfest1 (talk) 19:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

As indicated above the reference we have is St Columb Minor so we have to go with the references regardless of the truth. Keith D (talk) 21:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I do not agree with that I'm afraid. He was born in Newquay (which was so named in the late c15. Therefore the article should reflect that. Donkfest1 (talk) 15:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Articles should reflect the references or it is original research, also see WP:TRUTH. Keith D (talk) 17:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I know what you are saying Keith but......it makes absolutely no sense. As an example, Truro includes Kenwyn Parish and St Clement Parish. So if we take the reference to the letter, we would state that someone born in the northern part of Truro as having been born in Kenwyn, Cornwall. Has anyone outside of Truro heard of Kenwyn? There are numerous other examples of this.Donkfest1 (talk) 22:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

If that is what the reference indicates then yes we should state what the reference uses regardless of that the truth is unless there is a more reliable reference that states differently. Keith D (talk) 00:47, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

That's a cop out in my opinion. I have looked at other articles and most state the place of birth as St Columb Minor, no doubt as a result of the ODNB reference. One even states he was born "in the small village of St Columb Minor", which shows how ridiculous it is to perpetuate the ODNB reference. How about a compromise here - St Columb Minor Parish, Newquay, Cornwall? Donkfest1 (talk) 09:10, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Peter Carey's biography of William Golding gives his birthplace as Newquay. See Peter Carey, William Golding: The Man Who Wrote Lord of the Flies, Faber, 2009, page 18. Socialgolding (talk) 08:25, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations, by removing the reference to the ODNB, which is used for several other citations in the article, you have broken the refnames used. Would you care to mend it please? DuncanHill (talk) 08:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd also like to know if Donkfest1 = Socialgolding = Terrellcarver? DuncanHill (talk) 08:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Duncan, I apologise for breaking the ODNB link. However, I think you can understand, given the discussion above, that there is a level of frustration about this. It is obviously fine for wikipedia to insist on using published and reliable sources of information. However, it is also possible for those sources to be wrong, and subject to published correction in a later reliable source. The John Carey biography (not 'Peter', as above) correctly gives the birthplace as Newquay on p. 18, which should be cited, and the ODNB citation replaced by a more recent one. It follows from that that anything to do with St. Columb Minor as parish or village can disappear and should do so, as wikipedia itself shows from a referenced source that the parishes were separated in 1882 (see above, and the wikipedia page for Newquay). I would be grateful for your comment as to why a published, reliable but WRONG source cannot be corrected and replaced by a later, published, reliable and CORRECT source. John Carey is Emeritus Professor of English at the University of Oxford, by the way. Terrellcarver (talk) 22:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC) PS I am not Donkfest nor socialgolding. I did try to undo the edit that created the broken link but if I failed in this I apologise again. I am not a regular editor on wikipedia and will certainly be more careful. Terrellcarver (talk) 22:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Duncan, I have taken the matter up with ODNB with the following message: "The article by Kevin McCarron on Sir William Gerald Golding contains an error of fact. At present it reads: 'born on 19 September 1911 at his maternal grandmother's house, 47 Mountwise, St Columb Minor, Newquay, Cornwall' Whereas: 47 Mountwise (on Golding's birth certificate) is not in fact in St Columb Minor (village) nor was it in 1911 'in the parish of St. Columb Minor', the parish of Newquay having been formed out of the latter in 1882. John Carey's 2009 biography records the matter correctly on p. 18. The parish history is easily researched, and I can provide references if needed. It is readily apparent from the Ordinance Survey maps that 47 Mountwise is in Newquay and not in St Columb Minor. The ODNB is widely cited as authoritative, and a factual mistake such as this really requires correction. Thank you." I assume that if the ODNB agrees to this correction and publishes it on line, then there will be no problem correcting the William Golding entry and the few other entries where the ODNB error is repeated or where wikipedia needs updating, e.g. St. Columb Minor, Newquay, Cornwall etc. Terrellcarver (talk) 04:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Problem with O/S maps is that you need to look at maps of the time as if you use current maps the house numbering will probably have changed with houses built in between existing houses causing house renumbering to take place. Keith D (talk) 17:06, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed we have looked at the relevant maps. There is no evidence - other than in bio-material on Golding - that 47 Mount Wise as per birth certificate 1911 has anything at all to do with St Columb Minor. The issue with regard to this page and other relevant pages (e.g. St Columb Minor and Newquay) is the status of the 'St Columb Minor, Newquay' entry in the ODNB, which I am taking up with them at Oxford, and the matter has been sent to the relevant editor. Once that entry is fixed, then - I assume, since ODNB is the wikipedia editor's preferred source here - the problem can be fixed on relevant pages. I am incidentally interested in why the wikipedia editor prefers the ODNB 'information' as a source over the more recent John Carey biography, which does not reproduce this confusion (and conflation). This ODNB 'information' about St Columb Minor and Newquay is not used anywhere else in wikipedia (or anywhere else at all) to explain anything about these two locations in the relevant timeframe (which is basically post-1882). Terrellcarver (talk) 02:48, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I have received the following email from the ODNB regarding the information in the Golding entry concerning his birthplace. I will check the ODNB entry when their update goes live in May 2011 (NB the centenary year of Golding's birth), and then make the change on the wikipedia page (without breaking links), giving the reformulated information as per the new ODNB entry (with appropriate refrence to the ODNB).

Dear Professor Carver Thank you very much for raising this point about William Golding's birthplace. We have retrieved the article file (which is outhoused) to check the original birth certificate. This explains the confusion: St Columb was the registration district within which the birth was registered, and has been mistakenly given as part of the geographical description of the birth place. St Columb will be deleted in the next online update, to be released in May (the data for the January update had been locked down prior to receipt of your message of 5 October). Yours sincerely Mark Curthoys

---

Research Editor Oxford DNB I trust that this - when effected - will conclude the matter, given that wikipedia editors regard the ODNB as the authoritative published source on these matters. Tfcarver (talk) 13:05, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The upload of corrections to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography has taken place, and the reference to 'St Columb Minor' has been deleted from the ODNB as the editors promised (see above email quote). I have therefore edited 'St Columb Minor' out of the line giving birth information. At the foot of the main article there is also a link to 'People from St Columb Minor' which should be deleted, and a link to 'People from Newquay' substituted; I will try to do this but may have to give up, so would appreciate assistance on this. Terrellcarver (talk) 13:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I note that the Intro refers to him as an English novelist - arguably he was not English, but Cornish? SrLoco (talk) 21:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Golding's philosophy on life

hey hey hey ...yeah we have to find something on Golding's philosophy on life for a school thing and i can't find anything that gets straight to the point...it's just a little bit frustrating — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.142.24.25 (talk) 05:17, 29 November 2005

Article name

A quick look at "What links here" confirmed that most people know him under the name "William Golding". It would be different if there were lots of William Goldings, but there was no disambiguation page, therefore a move to the simplest form of his name, which is also the best-known and most commonly-used, seems uncontroversial. Deb 23:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thinking as a hobby

Why does golding at the end if his essay return to the three statuettes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.159.65.125 (talk) 00:10, 8 May 2006

Also, there's no evidence anywhere else on the internet that Golding did have a fixation with the Loch Ness Monster. Any evidence for such claims in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.63.180 (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Later novels

The article says both that Rites of Passage won the Booker Prize and that his later novels including Rites of Passage did not garner the same praise as his earlier ones. Isn't this a contradiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.6.139.11 (talk) 12:45, 20 June 2006

Link Broken to site detailing his burial

+++Vernon White (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Nationality

It says British but has an English flag, this should be changed either to: British with a Union Jack, or list him as English and keep the England flag BritBoy 00:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It has been done. DuncanHill 01:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

As ever, it would be much better to use 'British' instead of this obsession with home countries. In any case, since he was born in Cornwall, describing him as "English" is inaccurate. British is correct.80.44.134.81 (talk) 20:34, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Given that his ethnicity could be argued as Cornish rather than English and that the manual of style for biographies states that "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." I have to agree that the term used in the opening should be British. Bodrugan (talk) 00:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

He was born in Cornwall but did not grow up there. Nor was he of Cornish descent. He could be described as British or English; I prefer the latter, because it's more specific and more in line with how ordinary people identify themselves. Zacwill (talk) 23:15, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

His mother's family was Cornish, with the very Cornish name of 'Curnoe' and his grandmother's home, where he was born and spent a great deal of his childhood, was called 'Karenza' which is the Cornish language word for love. Golding was very much in touch with Cornish culture, using Cornish wrestling moves and Cornish dialect terms and having been brought up on Cornish fairy tales and ghost stories by his mother. A number of his works revolve around Cornishness and Cornish characters, including the work for which he won the Nobel Prize. Bodrugan (talk) 15:33, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Cryptozoology

Does anyone have any sources to support the text stating that Golding was involved in cryptozoology? I propose removing the paragraph if no reliable sources are found soon. DuncanHill (talk) 22:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I have now removed the paragraph in question, which read:-

Cryptozoology

William Golding was also prominent among Loch Ness Monster theorists and wrote articles for Popular Science about the nature of this purported phenomenon. Some argue the intentions of these articles, and others claim the tone was even mocking of the phenomenon.

I do not think it should be reinserted until/unless some reliable sources can be found to support it. DuncanHill (talk) 20:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

"lord of the flies"

the section on lord of the flies reads like (and might well be) a high school literature essay. It's just a plot summary with some simple character analysis - surely it should detail the impact of the novel on golding's career and why it was so successful? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.151.52 (talk) 23:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it fails. I've unprotected the page now so feel free to improve it. Flowerparty^☀ 08:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

A little late, but I've removed the book report. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:55, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Strange Youth

How come there isn't a mention of the fact that at age 18 Golding tried to rape a 15 year old girl? Or that he orchestrated psychological experiments on his classmates? I'll provide a source if you want but I thought this was all pretty common knowledge.86.156.51.15 (talk) 00:05, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Let us see the source instead of accusations then. 139.164.246.58 (talk) 08:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/aug/16/william-golding-attempted-rape82.71.30.178 (talk) 12:25, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Quotes ... ?

Is Golding the source of the "Lifeboat Test"?

As in "When one man meets another in a bar, each is thinking if I'm in the water and he's in the lifeboat will he pull me in?"

I think I read this once in an interview, maybe Playboy a long time ago.

Thanks. Mark S. Tuttle (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

where he was born and school he went to

There are some page said that he went to Marlborough Grammar School and he was born at Cornwall not Allington, Kent. I'm just curious about this. 203.162.3.167 (talk) 13:14, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

He was born in Cornwall, and went to Marlborough Grammar School, the false information about Allington and maidstone Grammar School was added by a vandal. I have now corrected this. DuncanHill (talk) 16:15, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

On the Maidstone Grammar School page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidstone_Grammar_School he is noted as being a former member of staff. I know a pupil of the school who also claims that this is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.219.6 (talk) 13:41, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

early writing

According to the current review of Carey's book, WG had written some four books before LotF, which was his first PUBLISHED novel. I think this is worth mentioning,but a more direct source (Carey, presumably) is needed.Kdammers (talk) 23:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I just got a copy of Carey from the library and hope to improve this article in the next few weeks. --Diannaa ^(Talk) 04:18, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Robert McCrum article in The Guardian.

Robert McCrum (11 Marh 2012). "William Golding's crisis". The Observer. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)     ←   ZScarpia   01:49, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Golding's crisis is a very necessary addition. 117.207.236.149 (talk) 21:11, 24 May 2013 (UTC)Doing-the-assignment-right-now!

The Anglo Saxon 1959 and 1970

Is there any evidence this book or books exists? I found a Google Books link but absolutely nothing else. And why two dates, if it's the same book the second would be republication and should be omitted. See also comments on the Pincher Martin page. ProfDEH (talk) 08:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

More research - it's a short story published in Queen magazine 1959. I will delete. ProfDEH (talk) 09:03, 14 March 2015 (UTC)