Talk:WINC (AM)/Archive 1

Comments

I think you are overusing quotes. I suggest you go through and consider which of them can be effectively stated without quotes. Look to reduce by about a third, I would say.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:56, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I was trying to keep some of the original text (the quotes) in while rewriting other parts. I thought it kinda had a good balance.

One thing on a change you made. The death of Richard Lewis and then company name change to Mid-Atlantic Network Inc. were two seperate events. It kinda jumps backwards when the death of Lewis is mentioned after the CONELRAD blurb from 1959. How about we move that entire paragraph (the death of Lewis and the '64 company name change) back up to 1957, that way the reader gets that information but it still stays kinda chronological?

I will work on the quotes right after I get back from the store. We are out of soap powder. :S - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:35, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I didn't have to go to the store as quickly as I thought, so I worked on a couple. I took some quotes out, left a couple in (about the 22 minutes of commercials and the Patsy Cline quote), but the remaining ones are just the names of something in quotes like "Virginia Schools at War Mobilization", "The Melody Playboys", "American Entertainment Network" and "Best Radio Spot News". I wasn't quoting something there, just using them to show that's what the program, band or award was called. Please feel free to remove those as needed. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:44, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I rewrote all quotes but one in my own words. I left the Patsy Cline quote as is. I think it is a good quote and one that shows how much she wanted to perform on WINC. The remaining text in quotes are just names of programs, awards, band names or nicknames. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:43, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

I removed a couple in the lede. I've tweaked the article, and don't have a lot to say about the content. It's probably GA or pretty close to it. There's probably more that can be said about what the station has done. If I may suggest, consider checking local papers for big events, like say V-E day, Kennedy's assassination, that sort of thing, and see if there's anything about what the station broadcast. Did they air the Checkers speech or the Nixon-Kennedy debates? When did Winchester get television anyway? Are there pre-1978 leaflets or other publications from the station that would most likely be free of copyright, say in the library or historical society? I don't expect you to do all these things, but they are suggestions for expansion.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:59, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I have a trip to Handley Library planned for sometime before Christmas. I hate going downtown Winchester because it is always so crowded and a Dodge Ram doesn't do well on narrow streets. :) Anywho, since they did some WWII programs, I figure they probably did other news programs during WWII. Ironically, Mid-Atlantic Network, Inc. (previous owners of WINC) brought cable television to Winchester and owned the cable system here for several years before selling it to Adelphia (now Comcast). WINC-FM remains on the Community bulletin board (CBB) channel, where it has been since Mid-Atlantic owned the system. For years, the CBB channel was on channel 6, where it had been since the system was launched (can't source that...yet) and it was moved a few years ago by Comcast to channel 15. People still call channel 15 "channel 6" since it had been there that long (can't source that, that's just stuff I hear, total OR).

But I will definitely see what I can dig up in the archives at Handley. They have literally every back issue of the Winchester Star on file or microfiche. Once I have some more added, and if you don't mind, I might have you do another PR. Thanks for your help...Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:26, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Right now, the article is a bit technical and focused on station operations and finances. There are clearly other angles out there that might be found. For example, as I said, the Checkers speech. Most likely the station carried it, as a lot of NBC affiliates did. I don't know if they could pick up television then, if not, that might have been the highest-rated show in the station's history.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:43, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

And I know the feeling about not driving downtown. I've driven into DC (not just on the highways, that is) probably once in the last fifteen years, for a show at the 9:30 Club. Actually, I avoid going into DC for any reason.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I will make the Checkers speech one of the things I search for at the library when I go. I will see what I can find (before then) online.

I think Winchester got cable for the first time in 1978, give or take a year, and it was mostly just DC and Baltimore stations, plus WHSV from Harrisonburg. I think they picked up networks in '79 or '80. Before that, everyone just used antennas. Folks in far western Frederick County still uses antennas (or DirecTV) because Comcast just won't go out that far (where the original Winchester Cable TV stopped). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:19, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Didn't find anything online about the Checkers speech, V-E or V-J Day or the Nixon-Kennedy debates, not that I expected to. Unfortunately, The Winchester Star isn't big on online archives. I will let you know what I find. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

A few informal review comments, as requested

Not by any means a full review, but here are a few initial thoughts on the article as it currently stands:

• The lead does not seem to fulfil the requirement to be a summary of the whole article; rather, it reads as a collection of fairly random snippets of fact.
  •  Done: I removed mentions of the WWII broadcasts and the location of the station's studios in the lede. The other information is locally and nationally notable. Patsy Cline, who is HUGE in this area, and the CONELRAD/Remote Control systems. The phone system is kinda anecdotal and funny, but it can be removed if you feel necessary. - NH
• Many of the paragraphs in the main text are very short, often just one or two sentences. This creates a near bullet-point format. You need to combine many of these, and work towards achieving a natural narrative flow.
  •  Done: Combined a good many of them. I tried to not make too many paragraphs that were seriously long. - NH
• You also need to avoid repetitive phrasing, e.g. three successive sentences in the "Pre-broadcast" section begin "Lewis..."
  •  Done: Switched out some of the more repetitive phrases, fixed the triple use of "Lewis" in the "Pre-broadcast" section. - NH
• Some of your "would" verb-forms need conversion to simple past historic tense: "would carry live descriptions" → "carried live descriptions"; "Golliday would build and launch..." → "Golliday built and launched..."; "The station would launch its own website..." → "The station launched its own website..."
  •  Done: Checked the entire article, corrected all use of the word "would" for a more historic term. - NH
• I've not studied the text in detail, but I get the impression of rather too many "anecdotes", some of them fairly trivial. Examples:

• "WINC staff members Everett Howard and John Carl Morgan both served in the military during World War II.[20][21] Howard served in the Army, Morgan in the Navy as a Chief Warrant Officer.[20][21] Morgan rejoined the station after the war as an engineer and announcer."

•  Not done: I'm having some trouble with this one. I believe it shows the service of the station's staff during the War. I know LOTS of people served in WWII, which is why I'm having trouble with this part. - NH

• I talked with Wehwalt and until I get some more information about what the station did while Howard and Morgan were serving, I have cut the section. - NH

• "In 1954, CBS television and radio actor Arthur Godfrey was featured in a live interview on WINC.[48][43] He was in town for the Apple Blossom Festival, where he was that year's Grand Marshall."

•  Done: Removed this part outright. While Art Godfrey was indeed famous, mentioned of President Johnson, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby and Patsy Cline should be enough. - NH

• "The station increased its nighttime power to 1,000 watts in 1986, allowing the station to broadcast at the same wattage around-the-clock."

•  Done: I cropped this sentence to just "The station increased its nighttime power to 1,000 watts in 1986". This shows the progression of the station's wattage to what it is today, but without the addition of the conversational comment at the end. - NH

• Conversely, what to me seem like quite significant developments in the station's output seem sometimes to be treated very briefly, for example: "By 1991, WINC was airing a Classic Hits format,[73] which was dropped a year later, returning to Adult Contemporary.[74] Talk programs were added two years later in 1994[75] and all music dropped two years after that."
  • The reason this looks this way is because there wasn't anything notable in the years inbetween to list. Hence it is kinda just thrown in there rapidfire. I will, though, try my best to find some more notable information, but I won't guarantee anything. The early 90s were some very boring times for the station. :) - NH
    • I looked through all my different sources, but I didn't find anything notable from the early 90s besides what I already have. :( - NH
• For "resident Lyndon B. Johnson" read "President Lyndon B. Johnson"
  •  Done: Corrected. Can't believe I made that mistake. :) - NH

I hope you find these comments useful. Brianboulton (talk) 22:50, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

(Later): You seem largely to have responded to my concerns. I don't really have time for further discussion, but I am sure that Wehwalt will look closely at these and other matters during the course of his review. Brianboulton (talk) 16:31, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Sir, for your help on this informal PR. Your help is much appreciated. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:WINC (AM)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Secret (talk · contribs) 14:45, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing the article this week per request. Secret ^account 14:45, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks! I have watchlisted this page and will keep an eye on it. Again, thank you. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:52, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Will jot some notes below Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

• Apologizes for the slowness of my replies. Real life beckoned, but I am online now. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:51, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Right, I copyedited the lead - is that ok?

Yeah, looks fine. Actually, I liked how you combined the Lewis Family part with the 2007 sale. - NH

On June 26, 1941, WINC aired programming for the first time - odd phrasing, why not was "on air" or "began broadcasting"

I was trying to change up the language as I was using the same terms over and over. I can use "began broadcasting for the first time". - NH

Yes this can be tricky....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Its frequency was AM 1400, not the originally-planned AM 1370, becoming Winchester's first radio station. - odd construction - makes it sound like it wouldn't have been Winchester's first radio station if it were at AM 1370...? Maybe attach the fact about becoming Winchester's first radio station onto the sentence before?

I can switch this up. It would still have become the first station in Winchester, just on a different frequency. Why it didn't make it onto AM1370 as planned is still unclear. - NH

The same year, WINC hired on C. Leslie Golliday - a typo? "The same year, WINC hired C. Leslie Golliday"...or..."The same year, WINC hired one C. Leslie Golliday"?

I was trying to switch up the language here too. Tried a more conversational tone for that sentence. I can take out the "on". - NH

Yeah, I think that is best. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I combined some stubby paragraphs - have a look through as there are alot of events ("In 19xx, this happened. In 19xy that happened") - see if you can emebellish some of the stories - doesn't need much, only an extra sentence here and there to give it a bit more colour.

I wish I could, I really do, but what I have is what is available. Unfortunately, the majority of the history of WINC was lost when Richard Lewis, Jr. passed away. He never really wrote the history of WINC down anywhere, so alot of the backstory of the station was lost with him. Philip Whitney did his best over the years but, as he put it, his "memory isn't what is used to be". Most of Whitney's history was written down for the local library in 1997 for the station's 50th anniversary. The rest is from broadcasting yearbooks and magazines. - NH

I did change up a few sentences that just didn't sound right, plus I combined a "stubby paragraph". - NH

Hmm, what I mean was not adding new facts but if there was any more information about any of the existing events? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, no. I wish there was more information the celebs that were on WINC. I would love to know what President Johnson, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby and others talked about. But that information is either not on paper or lost to time. There are a couple bits of information from WWII that I can't add due to lack of additional information. There was a POW camp for German soldiers across the street from WINC (which is now an elementary school). I can't find an additional source for this, like from the US Government. All I have is from the WINC history that Whitney wrote back in '97. I didn't think that was enough for a source. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay - yeah I know it is frustrating when you can't find stuff...okay. Let me check sources etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I was hoping the local library would have more information, and while I did find some information I didn't have, it was still lacking in secondary sources and addition information. But, that's what happens in the library archives. :)

On the sources, you might notice that the newstalk1400winc.com website shows up as "Redirect preserves id number" in CheckLinks. For some reason that shows up even though the link doesn't change or redirect when you click on it. I'm unsure why this happens and have just disregarded it. The station's Facebook page shows up as "Changes scheme from http to https", this is because I didn't use the "https" URL in the link. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:40, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Just looking at footnotes 1 and 11, I can see the facts they're citing - all good except I can't see in either that WINC is Winchester's first station....?

Took a couple but I did find a source for this from the local newspaper. - NH

footnote 56 date should be 1977 not 1971 (?)

The radio industry magazine the source came from is from May 31, 1971, though the license renewal took place on May 14. The FCC was slow on releasing what they had done, hence the date difference.

Aaah Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

One last question - does it have any affiliate stations/stablemates under its owner?

Here we call them sister stations and those are WINC-FM, WXBN, and WZFC. Now, the station does not feed any of it's programming to these stations, it is just owned by the same company as the others. WINC receives programming from other sources (all satellite, except for local newsbreaks) but does not broadcast it's programming to other stations. - NH

So they don't cross-advertise or swap radio stars or anything - and for all intents and purposes are considered separate? I wonder whether it is worth a single line in the body of the text in where ownership is discussed as the parent company has no article. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

You do sometimes hear folks from WINC doing ads on WINC-FM or vice versa, same with WXBN/WZFC. As for DJs, no, WINC airs syndicated talk shows (ie: Rush Limbaugh, etc.), while WINC-FM plays pop music (think Adele, Justin Beiber and the like), and WXBN/WZFC play country music (while simulcasting each other). The news staff is heard on all four stations, though.

In the lede (first paragraph, last sentence), I have "WINC is owned and operated by Centennial Broadcasting." and (in the second paragraph, second sentence), I have "until sold to North Carolina-based Centennial Broadcasting in 2007.". I also have good bit about the company in the WINC_(AM)#Sale section. More could be added though.

As for it's own page, I could create one, I just wasn't a company that owned just six stations would be notable. - NH

I created an article for Centennial Broadcasting‎, which I think is pretty good. Just FYI. - NH

Note: I am heading to bed, but will respond to all posts in about 10-12 hours (due to insomnia). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:21, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Ok - if they do do some cross-advertising and sharing of news, I think that it is worth briefly noting which stations are co-owned by Centennial in half a sentence strike that - silly me - I see you already have it in the sale. Okay we're done now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:33, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

1. Well written?:

Prose quality: - given the nature of the subject matter above and limitations of material, I reckon it's okay.

Manual of Style compliance:

2. Factually accurate and verifiable?:

References to sources: just checking some sources. one tiny query above

Citations to reliable sources, where required:

No original research: just checking some sources.

3. Broad in coverage?:

Major aspects:

Focused:

4. Reflects a neutral point of view?:

Fair representation without bias:

5. Reasonably stable?

No edit wars, etc. (Vandalism does not count against GA):

6. Illustrated by images, when possible and appropriate?:

Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

Overall:

Pass or Fail: - looks ok, just pending some sourcing checks. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:52, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

• Excellent! Thank you for your help on this GA. I greatly appreciate it. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:31, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

"Short"

And electrical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_circuit is NOT the same thing as overloading the telephone lines, which is a fault in the switching. Johna (talk) 21:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

@User:Johna: That's the way it was discribed in the 1947 article: "When 4,000 telephone calls came in simultaneously for WINC Winchester, Va., telephone circuits for the entire city were shorted, out, Richard F. Lewis, WINC manager, reports."

The other part discribes what the contest was about followed by "Mr. Sheeler got a call immediately, but it was from the telephone office notifying him that the entire phone system had been thrown out of gear."

The full news piece (top center in the box) can be found here. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:11, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Prominent figures

In the 1960s, the station hosted interviews with several prominent figures. Paul Harvey, in town for a speaking engagement, broadcast his "News and Comment" program from WINC studios on April 14, 1962.[60] President Lyndon B. Johnson, visiting for the Apple Blossom Festival in 1964, was interviewed live on the station.[22][47] The station was the first in Winchester to announce the assassinations of John F. Kennedy in 1963 and Robert F. Kennedy in 1968.[22]

This has me lost. LBJ was interviewed; did anyone else interview anyone? Is Harvey seriously being put forward as a figure whose prominence was comparable with that of presidents? Or what else is the paragraph trying to say? -- Hoary (talk) 06:06, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I can't be certain whether anyone was interviewed the day LBJ was in town. His daughter was also in town for Apple Blossom (she was crowned Queen), but that was cut as not be related to the station. Sadly, information from the 60s through the 80s is hard to come by. I made do with what I had and I believe it came out to a very good article.

As for Paul Harvey, his "News and Comment" program was broadcast to the nation from WINC in 1962. Harvey was in town for a speaking engagement. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's a good article; well done! But it struck me as a bizarre paragraph within the article. (Perhaps it just needs a different opening sentence.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. That was one of the paragraphs that got trimmed several times over. It was several sentences in two paragraphs when I began, but it needed trimmed. I'm honestly not sure how to rewrite it when it has been written every-way-from-Sunday and that was the final version everyone agreed on during FAC. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:05, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't know about its history. Leave it as is! -- Hoary (talk) 14:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Not a problem. :) Thanks, though, for giving the article a look-see. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

War effort

Less than six months after the station's first broadcast, WINC carried live descriptions of the attack on Pearl Harbor and President Roosevelt's "Infamy Speech" the following day.[22] With the United States entry to World War II, WINC participated in the war effort on the air and at its studios.

Wouldn't this have been true for the great majority of US radio stations? -- Hoary (talk) 06:06, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Not many stations, I don't believe, carried live descriptions of the attack on Pearl Harbor and the "Infamy Speech". WINC worked on the war effort at its studios, with many different drives, along with the air raid station being housed at WINC. There is a credible story that there was a German POW camp directly across the station, where an elementary school now sits. Unfortunately, I could find very little besides a blog page listing Winchester as a German POW camp site. Not enough to be included and would have been off-topic anyway. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I sit corrected. -- Hoary (talk) 12:37, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

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