Talk:UEFA Euro 2020 qualifying

Draw on 22 November 2019

"If there are more than four teams qualified for the play-offs in a given league, then a draw will occur to determine which teams will participate in the play-off path of that league. The remaining teams will be drawn into paths with teams of higher leagues."

Where is the details of this draw in the regulations or any other source? I think, if there are more than four teams qualified for the play-offs in a given league, the first four team will play on their own league play-off path, and after the next best-ranked team will move up to the upper league play-off path. Here is a video about this process, at 0:51. The announcer does not say any draw. He say, the next best-ranked team will move up.

OK, there will be a draw on 22 November 2019, but the UEFA source does not write about the details of this draw. Tomcsy (talk) 11:22, 13 October 2017 (UTC) Here is explanation: https://uefa.app.box.com/v/UNL/file/226762295443

Thank you. Tomcsy (talk) 18:17, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

At the risk of breaking WP:FORUM

When the heck are teams who make the Nations league 'final 4' (also played in June 2019) going to play their 3rd and 4th matches in this qualifying tournament?

The four UEFA Nations League Finals participants are guaranteed to be drawn into groups of five teams, requiring them to play only 8 matches (giving them a break on matchdays 3 and 4 for the finals). S.A. Julio (talk) 07:16, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

More vacuous space wasting garbage

The relentless and monotonous creep of "code bloat" continues apace with a pointless - and blank as the creator's mind - table that sets out the amazing fact that teams will eventually qualify - with the ever helpful designation of "2019" (why someone hasn't created one for Euro 2024 already I don't know). I suppose the argument will follow that, in the case of Group A, once Kosovo or Montenegro have been eliminated from the top two positions we will add in the following to the table...

Team	Qualified as	Qualified on	Previous appearances in tournament
	Group A top two	2019	Euro 2004
	Group A top two	2019

Using the - utterly impenetable logic that - well one of Bulgaria, Czech or England must qualify, and they all played in Euro 2004, so this must be true.

Seriously - think about how this looks to an outside viewer. An empty table. Sheezzz. 58.111.229.28 (talk) 09:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I would note that it took about 2 more hours for someone to add to the table (incorrectly as it happens) that the "League D" team would be making their debut in the tournament, even before we actually knew the actual teams who would be playing in that route. Someone then had to check and correct that utterly asinine pretend fact - wasting everybody's time. There was a time when wikipedia believed in publishing facts (rather than masturbatory relevations), and presenting the information from the point of view of the broadest possible audience (but now we place things like match times in the form that UEFA wants to refer to them in - if you want to be the UEFA website rather than wikipedia like the web address states this is, then you should apply to UEFA for a job rather than making things less useful to the general reader). 58.111.229.28 (talk) 11:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay fella, you made your point. You can drop the stick now. – PeeJay 12:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Macedonia has changed its name

There should be North Macedonia name not just Macedonia (talk) 22:55, 21 March 2019

This discussion is already active on Talk:Macedonia national football team. This page should be consistent with that Jopal22 (talk) 22:11, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

North Macedonia

The proper name is North Macedonia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.75.28.88 (talk) 20:01, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Overall ranking

Should this not be blanked until the actual final ranking. This section seems pointless until teams are actually qualified? This is very similar to the "final rankings" in the world cup articles, that should be removed as only being sourced to the regular tables. They have no meaning until after the group stage. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:19, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, unlike final rankings for the World Cup, the ranking criteria is defined in the competition regulations, and serves an important purpose for seeding teams in the finals draw (and possibly the 2020–21 UEFA Nations League draw). S.A. Julio (talk) 19:12, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Surely that only has any effect at the end of qualifying? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:36, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I have another question regarding the overall ranking. This ranking is supposed to rank all 55 participating national teams. For its purpose, the results achieved against the six-placed teams in the relevant groups are to be discounted. However it is intended to rank all 55 teams, thus including the 6th placed teams themselves. So I'm wondering how these six-placed teams own ranking is supposed to be determined? Which results are counted for them??Tvx1 16:57, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

All of them - the rule about dropping the sixth-placed teams is so as to be able to compare teams from five-team groups against teams from six-team groups. Teams finishing sixth in their groups don't have to be compared against teams from five-team groups, so there is no reason to drop any of their results. 80.229.81.191 (talk) 23:38, 17 September 2019 (UTC)Jack Rudd

playoff marking

in multiple groups, more than two teams, some of whom haven't even played yet, are marked as assured of at least playoffs. This makes absolutely no sense to me and, unless I'm missing something very important, should be changed. Quanstizium (talk) 21:59, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

@Quanstizium: See UEFA Euro 2020 qualifying play-offs for an explanation of the complex process. S.A. Julio (talk) 22:07, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with User:Quanstizium. Putting a background colour on teams that have not yet secured qualification is misleading, especially at this early stage. We should find some way of putting a solid green line under the qualification spots as a marker until qualification is secured. – PeeJay 23:58, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

PeeJay2K3, I believe they were referring to status letters, not colours? S.A. Julio (talk) 01:23, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

It confused me first as well, but it's accurate and should be kept. There's nothing wrong with the colours, either. SportingFlyer T·C 01:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Colours like this are used almost universally. We've had the same conversation ad nauseum (such as at the world cup article) but consensus is always to keep. The original point is regarding the letters for teams being assured a play-off place. It's confusing, but it's to do with how the Nations league is used, so, teams are assured of playoff places, regardless of this qualifying section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:35, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I would note one thing here - the colours are being used a bit differently in this table to the "almost universal" case. Usually the (say) green colour means "Team that ends up in this spot qualifies" but that isn't necessarily the case (they might win their group and so that spot will actually go to a team that finishes lower on the list). I don't really think it's too bad, although it may get tricky over the next month. Additionally, is there a separate identification for teams like Gibraltar that can no longer qualify by the "top two" path, but only via the (admittedly vanishingly unlikely) outcome that six of the teams above it from League D qualify directly. 58.111.205.160 (talk) 21:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

... Just to add (for clarity). If anything, I think the description for the yellow designation should be adjusted. Currently the other two colours (green and blue) attach to the team (or they will once they occur), effectively green means "This team has qualified directly" - but the yellow band attaches to the position in the table (acknowledging that these positions can't change) so, "Currently, this position in the rankings is one that guarantees a play-off, although this may change". This is somewhat inconsistent, but a better designation on the yellow might be a fix. 58.111.205.160 (talk) 22:29, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Also letters like (T) should only refer to things that are final (like, "have qualified", "have been eliminated", "will at least advance"), not things that are current and subject to change, that is a wikipedia standard. The (T)'s should definitely be replaced by teams in bold are currently in play-off positions which would at least be consistent with the italics for currently in direct qualify positions 58.111.205.160 (talk) 22:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Letter "z" is OR

Z is now being used for "May qualify directly, but cannot advance to play-offs."

This is pure OR. where's the source for this? Y (Cannot qualify directly, but may still advance to play-offs) is easy enough as you are looking at one group - so can easily add multiples of 3 - but for z you are looking at multiple groups, and have to prove that in every possible scenario, these teams don't hit the playoff spots. 141.92.67.43 (talk) 08:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Y and Z are both statistics-cruft. X makes sense, as they have been decided, the rest is ambiguous at best, confusing and OR at worst. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:43, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

They are pretty easily verifiable facts though. For instance, Lithuania (last in their Nations League) needs all the teams above them in their league to qualify directly for the tournament to be able to get a play-off spot. However, with Estonia no longer able to qualify directly that is no longer possible. I do not think this is statistics-cruft either. I think it is basic for an article on an ongoing qualifying campaign to tell our readers which participants can still qualify through the primary route, which cannot qualify through the primary route but still can through the secondary route, which can stil qualify through the primary route but cannot through the secondary route and which ones are eliminated from qualifying through either route.Tvx1 12:08, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

but where is this being sourced to? Wikipedia is not the place to do advanced predictions like this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

These are not predictions. These are simply facts derived from basic arithmetic.Tvx1 14:12, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

For what it is still worth, here and here the UEFA them selves keep track of who can still/cannot qualify and how.Tvx1 20:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

If you wanna use E or Z, you have to explain your deduction here

It is not easy to deduce it by head. And I have figured out Lithuania actually CAN make it to the playoffs. In order to do so, you have to create a scenario where a maximum amount of League C nations qualify. Going through the groups one-by-one, we find:

A: Montenegro and Bulgaria can't qualify simultaneously, as neither can outrank England (-1) B: Serbia can qualify, although Lithuania wouldn't qualify. C: Estonia can't qualify (-1) D: N/A E: Hungary can qualify F: Romania and Norway can qualify simultaneously. They can both win at least 9 points, with Spain losing everything from now on (totally gonna happen) G: Israel and Slovenia can qualify simultaneously. H: Albania can qualify I: Cyprus and Scotland can't qualify simultaneously, as they can't simultaneously outscore Belgium. (-1) J: Greece can qualify

As such, it is possible to create a League C tournament consisting of Bulgaria, Estonia, Scotland and Lithuania.

I do agree that the bottom 3 of League D can't make it to the playoffs. But for that, you do need to prove that there won't be a fifth playoff spot for a League D team. This essentially follows from above. Then you create similarly a scenario where a maximum amount of nations of League D qualifies. Then you see that Armenia and Liechtenstein can't qualify simultaneously in group J, which, together with the Y-symbols, implies that the bottom 3 have to qualify directly (which two of them already can't). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mar0202 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

In group J you forgot Finland. They are also from league C. If Greece qualifies directly, Finland would take the play-off spot and thus your League C tournament would be Bulgaria, Estonia, Scotland, Finland.Tvx1 21:15, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

You are right. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.208.115.40 (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

It might be difficult to see, but there are four groups already that guarantee a league C team ranked higher than Lithuania to take the play-off spots. Group A where Bulgaria and Montenegro cannot both qualify directly, Group C where Estonia cannot qualify directly, Group I where Cyprus and Scotland cannot both qualify directly and Group J where Finland and Greece cannot both qualify directly. This coupled with the fact that there is no scenario in which Lithuania can clinch a play-off spot if more than four play-off spots are allocated it to league C (because it would already need to many direct spots being clinched by League A and B nations for a league C play-off spot to be pushed down all the way to Lithuania) means that Lithuania cannot possibly advance to the play-offs.Tvx1 17:54, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Finland v Liechtenstein on 15 November

If, according to the regulations, Finland is one of the three "hard winter venues" that cannot host games in March or November, how is it so that the Group J game between Finland and Liechtenstein is scheduled to take place in Helsinki on 15 November? --Theurgist (talk) 01:33, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Not sure if it's the answer but the game is played on artificial turf which may explain the exception to the rules. BleuDXXXIV (talk) 21:06, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Well, the source does say that venue... So that's all that really matters. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:12, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Why Kazakhstan eliminated?

Nowadays, Georgia, North Macedonia, Kosovo, and Armenia may qualify directly, and so top 4 of League D will be Belarus, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan. Am I missing something?--Joél be back (talk) 10:22, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

• Estonia is eliminated. Scotland has qualified for the play-offs, Montenegro & Bulgaria won't qualify directly, and Greece and Finland cannot qualify directly together. BTW Please send here the link where those Ys, Zs, Es etc can be edited, as it's hard to find--Joél be back (talk) 14:02, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

You are right about Kazakhstan so I fixed it but wrong about Estonia. They can't get into League C play-offs as you say but both CYP and EST can still get into League B play-offs if most of league B qualify (the play-off spots hand down to League C teams). You hit the E next to Team at the top of the actual tables to edit them. Zirath (talk) 14:36, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks for explaining!--Joél be back (talk) 16:59, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Azerbaijan can still reach the playoffs !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.92.158 (talk) 18:07, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Highlighting teams that advance to the play-offs

In articles on domestic championships (such as the seasons of the Premier League), teams that have qualified for the international competitions are highlighted, even if they have earned their berth through a separate path, such a domestic cup, an international competition, or Fair Play ranking (when that was a thing). So, wouldn't it make sense if in this article the teams that advance to the play-offs based on Nations League rankings were highlighted as well, like this?

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	Belgium	8	8	0	0	30	1	+29	24	Qualify for final tournament
2	Russia	8	7	0	1	27	4	+23	21
3	Cyprus	8	3	1	4	13	12	+1	10
4	Scotland	8	3	0	5	11	17	−6	9	Advance to play-offs based on Nations League ranking
5	Kazakhstan	8	2	1	5	9	13	−4	7
6	San Marino	8	0	0	8	0	43	−43	0

Updated to match(es) played on 13 October 2019. Source: UEFA
Rules for classification: Tiebreakers

--Theurgist (talk) 17:07, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Qualification Scenarios

Uefa on their website outlined the scenarios that have to occur for qualification. I've added the sceneios not sure how i would properly cite but if anyone wants to take a look go right ahead please

https://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/news/0255-0d90cade7cf0-199d9e92ec90-1000--who-can-still-qualify/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:BE20:A8A:11E9:AFA7:C039:AB6 (talk) 01:00, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Among

I think not 'among the teams' but 'between' becuase there are only TWO teams at each party. Kapeter77 (talk) 03:51, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

It is possible for the tiebreakers to be applied to three, four, or five teams level on points in the standings, though. S.A. Julio (talk) 05:24, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

SVG logo replacement

Hello everyone. The "European Qualifiers" logo presently used here and on four other articles is a highly pixelated PNG image. UEFA is offering an SVG replacement here. I tried uploading it here but it does not appear to be fully compatible with Wikipedia, as the uploaded version lacks some colors (include the chest-seated emblem). Someone with better SVG editing expertise might be able to work this out. Regards, Lordtobi (✉) 11:05, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Overall ranking table?

We don't have that in the previous articles, why now? And the source isn't an overall ranking table, just goes to the tables already shown above. Do we need this? Govvy (talk) 11:35, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Govvy, UEFA have only just introduced this ranking method in qualifying for the 2020 tournament. The information is based off Article 23.01 of the competition regulations, and is certainly useful given it was used as seeding for the final tournament draw. S.A. Julio (talk) 11:42, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Nope, the ranking system is slightly different, the one they are using also calculates disciplinary records along with results in the UEFA National league. So what you are seeing at the moment on the overall rankings table will be incorrect as it isn't displaying all the data they are using. Govvy (talk) 11:56, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

@Govvy: Not sure what you're talking about, the overall ranking (based on the criteria defined in article 23.01) exactly determined the draw pots. See the table which UEFA published, it exactly matches the top 20 in this article's table. The overall rankings also are used as the last tiebreaker during the final tournament group stage, per article 20.01 of the regulations. S.A. Julio (talk) 12:24, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

I am confused, why are posting links which don't match the overall ranking table on this page? Also, I am starting to think the table is starting to look like a combination of WP:OR and the correct league tables. Govvy (talk) 13:00, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Again I'm not sure what you're talking about, if you look at the UEFA article, their "Overall European Qualifiers rankings" exactly matches the top 20 teams in the wiki ranking table. This certainly is not original research (per WP:CALC), as I mentioned above the exact ranking tiebreakers are stated in Article 23.01 of the competition regulations, paraphrased here in the article. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:34, 30 November 2019 (UTC)