Talk:Turkey/Archive 34

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Requested move 3 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. There is a strong consensus that the common name for the country in English is "Turkey". Closed early per WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 20:33, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

---

Turkey → Turkiye – On 1st of June 2022, The united nation accepted a request from the turkish government to use the name (Turkiye) as an official name, to match its pronunciation in Turkish and Arabic languages, and to prevent similarities with words that have other meanings. This event is published on Al Jazeera web-site. Thanks for you. Dr-Taher (talk) 12:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:19, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• This is not uncontroversial, given the ongoing discussions and previous RMs at Talk:Turkey. A new RM discussion will need to find consensus for such a move before it will be carried out. DanCherek (talk) 12:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Thanks @DanCherek:, I have noticed the debate on the talk page after your comment. Most opposing opinions on January asked to wait for an official change by The United Nations, and this was accepted on 1 June.--Dr-Taher (talk) 13:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• @Dr-Taher and DanCherek:. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:19, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Thanks *@Crouch, Swale: for moving the request to the correct place. --Dr-Taher (talk) 13:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support and move Turkey (disambiguation) here per my previous arguments. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• The Country's name ist Turkiye and not Turkey anymore !! So change the name here too !!!! 2001:9E8:177B:E000:B5E8:B17:DD8A:D683 (talk) 13:26, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Turkiye isn't the name of the country in English. It is the official name used by the government (and now accepted by UN). I don't think I would stop saying "I'm from Turkey." when the official name is approved in Wikipedia. Kavas (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment if it does get moved, it should be to "Türkiye" instead of Turkiye per news sources from Google site searches. I am aware of the name change today. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 13:51, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  The “Ü” letter is not used in the English alphabet, so it wouldn’t make sense for it to be the name in English. Especially since all other countries do not use foreign letters in their English name. SmooManLecons (talk) 13:56, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  The only argument for a move is based on the Turkish government position. The name chosen by the Turkish government has a ü in it. If we were to adopt the name on that basis, it would not be for us to then change the spelling. And if the inclusion of the ü reduces the chances of the word being widely adopted, that isn't our problem. Kahastok talk 15:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Re alphabet: success cases São Tomé and Príncipe (on Wikipedia, UN: Sao Tome and Principe - maybe candidate for move request), Curaçao. Unsuccessful: Côte D'Ivoire. Chrz (talk) 16:35, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Fram (talk) 13:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment this seems very similar to Czech Republic/Czechia. There needs to be consistency. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 14:07, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, virtually all english language sources use Turkey as the common name for the polity in question.XavierGreen (talk) 14:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Nozdref (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose: per WP:COMMONNAME. Beshogur (talk) 14:34, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Probably borderline WP:LAME. We have done this discussion many times before, and this would likely confuse many readers who haven't been involved in current events. Neither has the UN changed Turkey's name on their website yet. We should create an FAQ about this discussion to stop all the name change edit requests. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 14:36, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Turkey is the English name for the country. The articles for Spain and Germany aren't at España and Deutschland so there's no reason Turkey should be any different. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 14:38, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Turkey is the common name and English name for the country. Just because Bharat was selected as an alternative name of India in 1950, that doesn't mean at international level, people use Bharat but use India. Same applies here for Turkey. Imranqazi90 (talk) 14:52, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Policy is that we use the WP:COMMONNAME, which in this case is fairly obviously Turkey. There is no point in requesting a move unless you can provide at least an argument that the WP:COMMONNAME in ordinary English usage has changed. I'll repeat the Google Trends searches I cited above, that show Turkey as dominant in major English-speaking countries: [1][2][3][4][5][6]. I'd also add that the proposed move title isn't even the name proposed by the Turkish government - it should be Türkiye with ü and the Turkish dotted i. Kahastok talk 14:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Snowclose. This ain't getting any support, as it's just a rehash of Czech Republic/Czechia. O.N.R. ^(talk) 15:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Leave it open at lest for 24 hours to give all timezones a chance to say their argument. Chrz (talk) 16:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME. Besides, nobody is using Turkiye in English; the proposal of the authoritarian regime in Ankara is Türkiye, not Turkiye. Neither one is common English usage. Jeppiz (talk) 15:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  The type of government (democratic, authoritarian, dictatorial, whatever) is irrelevant here. Professor Tournesol (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, and we already denote the official spelling otherwise. There are dozens of countries where the COMMONNAME reflects the English usage over the foreign language - not least those using other alphabets (some of which are uncommon to English). Koncorde (talk) 15:59, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support Toran107 (talk) 16:04, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• To those citing COMMONNAME, the name literally just changed yesterday. Of course "Turkey" is still the most commonly-used name amongst all extant news sources - any news article written prior to YESTERDAY uses Turkey. --B (talk) 16:12, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Today is 3 June, and the change was on 31 May, so your timing is not right. But it doesn't really matter. It is for those advocating the change to demonstrate the case that the common name has changed, or that there is some reason why a longstanding WP:COMMONNAME should be overridden. Even if the only reason they cannot make that case is because the sources haven't caught up yet, then the WP:COMMONNAME has not changed and we are right to oppose on that basis. Kahastok talk 17:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Today is 4 June. Still no change: BBC, Financial Times, ABC, Reuters all using Turkey with no sign of Türkiye. To those citing COMMONNAME, the name literally just changed yesterday…It didn’t, but anyway…Of course "Turkey" is still the most commonly-used name amongst all extant news sources. Exactly! that’s why we have WP:CRYSTAL – Wikipedia doesn't lead; we follow. And so far no one in the English-speaking media is going to Türkiye. DeCausa (talk) 08:18, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose the name change because Turkiye is not even in play - Türkyie was registered at UN and Oppose Türkiye

• UN list contains tens (!!!) of differences so Wikipedia does not blindly follow it
• previous country renamings on Wikipedia took at least months after name change and some has not happened to this day
• Turkey has long history so the change is more difficult

Czech Republic has only 30 years history and name change on Wikipedia has not happened yet, 6 years after official UN registration and mild successes in sources

English language already knows knows the name Czech, knows -ia, knows Czechoslovakia, so Czechia is quite logic construction (oppose to Türk-iye)

Czechia does not contain special letters like ü

So Czechia is ahead of Tükiye for now, with better case and fails too, so Türkiye is not eligible

Eswatini is relativelly unknown country so renaming was easy and sources proved it (not just sources about the renaming, but casual mentions too)

North Macedonia was proven by sources, also it was special case on its own

• pronunciation in English is not clear, u/ü is not clear, adjective is not clear
• argument that we should grant country's wishes - yes, after we see that secondary sources do so
• like every single instance of Tu/ürkiye in sources say about the name change and nothing else, the sources do not use it yet
• not clear for which time period it should be used - from now on, or for past references too?
• wait for ISO, US departement of state, UK ministry of defence - further reading about timeline of country name changes in past 100 years etc.
• trans celebrity argument (mentioned somewhere before or after my comment) is not good for country naming discussion

But I'm in favour of Türkiye in LEDE as "also known as Türkiye" or "rarely Türkiye" or at least note with "for alternative names see Name paragraph"

I'm in favour of "Türkiye at the 2024 Summer Olympics" (and similar sport articles) if Turkey manages to compete under such name (team name versus country name - no need of mindless unity) Chrz (talk) 16:26, 3 June 2022 (UTC) & Chrz (talk) 07:02, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Düsseldorf "ü" Arialu (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Oppose. Wikipedia does not necessarily follow UN naming conventions. Otherwise the Taiwan article would have a different name. Marcus Aurelius 17:26, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Support: This is similar to the Cote d'Ivoire and Cabo Verde situation. Should an English name be changed to what its country wants? Well, the UN recognizes it, and it's an official English language name change, so it should be changed. 131552A (talk) 17:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The "Türkiye" vs. "Turkiye" situation is simply a war of technicalities. Like most all non-English languages names in English, one simply removes the dieresis and any other accentuation marks not in English and thus the name is now to English grammar standards. 131552A (talk) 17:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

That's not how it always works, for example the German surname "Müller" becomes "Mueller" and not "Muller" in English. How it is anglicized depends on the language, the letter Ü here in "Türkiye" might not be equivalent to the English letter U. Folohsor (talk) 18:30, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Support Swaziland was renamed within a week even though its newest name is incomprehensible. ukrainian cities were also all quickly renamed save for 1 DzhungarRabbit (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree. The eSwatini example holds up and the name was indeed changed relatively quickly. The capitalization also is controversial and doesn't comply with English grammar, and people just changed it to "Eswatini". The same should apply here. 131552A (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong support Türkiye, see Eswatini page move that was done the week after [7]. Additionally, in Turkey obviously Türkiye is ubiquitous. Not sure why when a person changes the name we have policies to update even if it's COMMON, and not for countries.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Seen this point made several times now. The Swazi government changed Swaziland to Eswatini on 19 April 2018. An RM was started on the same day, and closed with consensus against the move on the grounds that there was no evidence that the WP:COMMONNAME had changed. A second RM was started on 16 June 2018, with the same result. The RM you refer to was started on 12 October 2018, and finished on 22 October, which is a full six months after the name change. The claim that the Eswatini page move was done the week after the state was renamed is simply not true. Those supporting the move here are advocating that we go much faster than we did with Eswatini. Kahastok talk 18:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Turkey is still clearly the common name. JIP | Talk 17:56, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Mostly support (but also) oppose (in part) I think that the page should be renamed to "Türkiye" with the trema, not "Turkiye" without the trema because this is how the name change was structured.Joesom333 (talk) 18:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
  • According to what I understand of the Turkish language, it's an umlaut, not a trema. JIP | Talk 19:17, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Aurelius9, Kavas and Jeppiz. The Turkey → Türkiye name change is most likely a Public Relations stunt by the Erdoğan government. The Ivory Coast government also insists that everyone refer to it by its official-language name (in this case, the French "Côte d'Ivoire") and yet the WP:COMMONNAME in English still remains "Ivory Coast". Glide08 (talk) 19:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, per WP:COMMONNAME Asdfjrjjj (talk) 19:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - COMMONNAME is the only relevant issue here, and the new name clearly doesn't qualify (yet). Obviously, if the new name then becomes the most commonly used in English language sources (like eSwatini did), then we can come here again. Black Kite (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Not yet WP:COMMONNAME, obviously. There needs to be a move request moratorium for a few months to allow the usage position to become clarified. Otherwise, I foresee these RMs only causing ongoing disruption. DeCausa (talk) 20:21, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Oppose This move cannot take place until Czech Republic is moved to Czechia. Piotrek54321 (talk) 20:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose It should be moved to Türkiye, not to Turkiye. It's not up to us to adapt the spelling to only include English characters. ImStevan (talk) 20:42, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  @ImStevan this response on your suggested title. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  I actually agree, now that I have read these comments. Although I must note that most English language speakers will likely not use the dieresis or umlaut when writing the word down. 131552A (talk) 23:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose Too soon. It's worth considering that because we need to disambiguate with turkey (bird), Türkiye doesn't have to be the common name, it just has to be a common name, as changing the name of the page to Türkiye would provide natural disambiguation, which is preferable under WP:DAB. If Türkiye enters widespread use in English sources, I would support a move, but right now we don't know if it will. YttriumShrew (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Piotrek54321, also earlier on today someone has moved some of the sport articles to "Türkiye" from "Turkey" but, as seen on this section, I stated these moves were returned as they have not been discussed and this article has not been retitled itself. It will take some time for the WP:COMMONNAME to change as in the case of Port Elizabeth and Czech Republic are titled as they are today. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Also, few people use Türkiye when referring to the country Turkey in English. Actually, it is not an English word, but here is the English Wikipedia. We respect the right of countries to choose their own country name, but this right should not infringe on people's right to use the language they are familiar with. The Wikipedia entry name is not necessarily the official name of its subject. This is very clearly stated in WP:COMMONNAME. Cfls (talk) 23:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support Türkiye is literally the name. It's sad that Wikipedia has become so slow to actually update things in a reasonable time frame. Elgatoisacat (talk) 00:35, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  Sad? What about the fact that WP:COMMONNAME is policy? We use what people use. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:53, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  that policy has been routinely ignored based on the whims and wishes of the western mainstream that solidly controls this website, just look at Kiev and other Ukrainian cities. The only reason why we are even having this conversation in the first place is because Turkey is not well liked in US+EU which control the narrative. Had it been their golden cow like the Ukraine is right now the name would have already been changed. DzhungarRabbit (talk) 01:30, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  Thank you for your comment. At the same time, you may also refer to the case that the Czech Republic announced its new name Czechia in 2016. However, mainly due to the WP:COMMONNAME policy, the Wikipedia entry name remains unchanged by community consensus. Your assertion, although welcome in the Wikipedia community, is generally based on opinion rather than precedent or community guidelines. Thank you for letting us see different sides and perspectives. Cfls (talk) 04:41, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose as TOOSOON. Once we see how WP:COMMONNAME this is after a few weeks we should reconsider. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:52, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Too soon to tell if "Türkiye" will become widely-used in the English-language media. AusLondonder (talk) 01:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support. So that turkey (bird) would be the new primary topic. Showiecz (talk) 02:32, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per all the reasons given above. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 02:36, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment in any case Turkey (disambiguation) should be located at "Turkey" and not the country. Whether it is renamed to Turkiye or Turkey (country), the disambiguation page should be primary. In English, the bird is highly prominent -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 03:44, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose for reasons listed above - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 03:57, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per all the reasons given above.--Ruwaym (talk) 04:02, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose WP:COMMONNAME. Bmf 051 (talk) 04:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support. I always have found WP:COMMONNAME to be subjective and arbitrary. When is something considered common? Also imho, it should be policy of Wikipedia to actively support name changes, to make the new name more common. Same goes for Czechia. We should respect their preferences. Randam (talk) 05:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose WP:COMMONNAME has been Turkey for several decades, and it isn't changing anytime soon. Until Turkiye becomes the dominant term, I oppose this change. FlantasyFlan (talk) 05:55, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• (Conditional) oppose I'm all for renaming the page "Türkiye", but per COMMONNAME & TOOSOON, we'll have to be patient and wait a few months, see if "Türkiye" catches on among the public, media & academia. If it does, then by all means go for the change, but if the Anglophone world continues to call the country Turkey, then we will have to respect that and maintain the status quo. Yekshemesh (talk) 06:05, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:TOOSOON. NO MORE HEROES ⚘ TALK 07:03, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Currently, usage of "T[ü/u]rkiye" in English-language texts is still very limited even in Turkey. Government sites, Anadolu and Turkish Airlines use "Türkiye" (or "Turkiye" with great inconsistency), but – I have to mention it again and again – even the two largest Turkish news media in English (Daily Sabah and Hürriyet Daily News) haven't adopted the change (so much for the "US+EU controlled narrative"). It's not about whether we like this whim of the current Turkish administration or not, but whether this drive will have any impact on usage in reliable sources around the world (cf. Kyiv vs. Czechia). Let's meet again in 6 months or so. –Austronesier (talk) 09:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  Düsseldorf geographical name. Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/D%C3%BCsseldorf 95.70.244.169 (talk) 23:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• Weakly oppose not WP:COMMONNAME yet.--El caballero de los Leones (talk) 10:23, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Strong support: WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply. The country has just changed their name, of course people are going to (at this present moment) be referring to it as its previous name! Felixsv7 (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• COMMONNAME absolutely does apply - it's a policy, so it can't be ignored. If the new name becomes the common name, the article should be moved then, not now; exactly as it happened with eSwatini, 6 months after the name changed. This is absolutely too early. Black Kite (talk) 11:55, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  Also, eSwatini was initially bvelieved to be the name, later clarified or changed to Eswatini. Maybe Turkey will adapt Türkyie to Turkiye, or Turkia? :) Chrz (talk) 12:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose There is no such letter "ü" in English, so if Erdogan is uncomfortable about Turkey's current naming, he definitely should make up something more creative. But seriously, see WP:COMMONNAME and I wonder why this name never had been a problem for at least 100 years. --A.Savin (talk) 13:11, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
  • In my opinion, the issue is not the letter "ü" but that Turkey is pretty much unilaterally trying to change the common name in English. JIP | Talk 01:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

  Düsseldorf ü Arialu (talk) 19:16, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Zsovar3 (talk) 13:40, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. BlackBony (talk) 21:44, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Turkey Here I am using this website (talk) 14:27, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• STRONG SUPPORT (Gratuitous abuse redacted) Official names will always stand! 120.17.142.88 (talk) 16:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Wikipedia name forms are neither governed from Ankara or from the UN, but from actual usage in relevant and reliable sources. Ivory Coast is a similar case, where the government has insisted that the name form 'Côte d'Ivoire' should be used in all languages, a name that was accepted by the UN in 1985. 37 years later there is no doubt that the country still is commonly called 'Ivory Coast' in English. So let us wait and see what really happens in the years towards 2059. --T*U (talk) 16:43, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Peter Ormond 💬 19:14, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support It's the official name of the country, and yes WP:COMMONNAME exists but the name has literally been changed for less than a few days. L32007 (talk) 21:50, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

  That's the point, wait till it becomes a common name before moving. Altermetax (talk) 21:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. This is just the Czechia/Czech Republic nonsense reborn. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 22:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose 1. per commonname 2. let's wait if this is even adepted by media and governments 3. i'm not even sure this change will stay after erdogan is out of office Norschweden (talk) 22:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Türkiye

https://en.volleyballworld.com/volleyball/world-ranking/women

https://en.volleyballworld.com/volleyball/competitions/vnl-2022/news/karakurt-and-erdem-help-turkiye-get-back-on-track Arialu (talk) 02:16, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Strongly support Türkiye Düsseldorf Arialu (talk) 02:21, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, if you plan to move the page, it should go to Türkiye if that name does come into more widespread & common usage. "Turkiye" an incorrect spelling of actual official name, "Türkiye". The Ü is a distinct letter in this language and not just a modified U, so writing it as "Turkiye" is a spelling error, like writing it as "Tjrkiye" or "Tbrkiye" would be. If you want to change it into a word without the Ü, then I don't know what letters should replace it, in German the Ü can be replaced with UE like in the surname Müller/Mueller, but it is probably different in a different language here. Folohsor (talk) 18:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

  Düsseldorf Arialu (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support Dhoru 21 (talk・contribs) 13:19, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support So I speak as an Italian citizen. I can tell you that in Italy all Turkish products are written "Made in Türkiye". There is no "Made in Turkey". Afterwards it is useless to say that in the English alphabet there is no letter ü because so what are the English pages of Zürich or Düsseldorf written in this way doing ?. The only thing to see is whether in the short term, in English, we will use the common word Turkiye or Türkiye. I believe more Turkiye. Eraldo100 (talk) 23:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Very strong support. Turkey is now Turkiye and to intentionally call it anything else would be to spread misinformation. For those citing WP:COMMONNAME, it’s only been a day. And “Macedonia” is still the common name for the country known as “North Macedonia”, but the wiki article for that country was still renamed. This is literally no different — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.192.236 (talk) 00:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Weak oppose: It is possible that in the near future the country will be popularly referred to in the press and elsewhere in the English-speaking world as "Türkiye" (with or without the diaeresis), the same way that Persia is now Iran and Peking is now Beijing. Until and unless that happens, though, the name "Turkey" continues to dominate. FreeMediaKid$ 05:17, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support per the above arguments. Based on some of the opposing users' arguments I feel like this issue is turning into a political battle against the figure of Erdogan rather than the actual issue of the country's rebranding, even though the move is widely supported by Turks.--Moester101 (talk) 06:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

  Support by the Turks does not necessarily mean that it must be changed immediately. Sure, this is a strange issue considering the French flag, Eswatini, and North Macedonia had their RFCs implemented very quickly, but it might confuse readers not involved in current events, especially when it involves a majorly established country that has been known as “Turkey” for centuries. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 06:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strongly Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. --173.238.195.247 (talk) 06:48, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose: my issue with this isn't because of WP:COMMONNAME, as Türkiye will undoubtedly become the most common name eventually. My issue is that it is far too early to move it. When Türkiye becomes the most common name, we should move it then, but it isn't the most common name now. For the record, if a proposal to move Ivory Coast to Cote d'Ivoire ever happens in the future, I'd support that, as that is its most common name. Türkiye, however, isn't the most common name for Turkey right now, so we shouldn't move it just yet. Do-Droppy (talk) 17:06, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

The official name is "Türkiye" and not "Turkiye" - the "Ü" is a different letter in this language (and not just a modification of "U"), so writing it as "Turkiye" is a spelling error. Folohsor (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, in Turkish it would be a spelling error. That has nothing to do with how the name is rendered in other languages. 'Turkiet' in Swedish, 'Turquía' in Spanish, 'Turkaland' in Faroese are not spelling errors, neither would 'Turkiye' be in English. But I actually do not expect it to be called that. --T*U (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

But "Turkiet" in Swedish, "Turquía" in Spanish, "Turkaland" in Faroese (and "Turkki" in Finnish) are names native to those languages, not names used by Turkey itself. If we want to use a native English name for the country in English, "Turkey" is perfectly fine. JIP | Talk 18:40, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@JIP: I totally agree. My point was just to stress that Turkey cannot dictate what is right or wrong spelling in any other language, including English. --T*U (talk) 23:08, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes. If in the future, Turkiye ends up being adopted as the English name of the country, then it would not be a spelling error in English - pretty much by definition.

But if Türkiye were adopted, then Turkiye would not be considered a significant spelling error either. English-speakers have a habit of shearing diacritics off words, even including personal names.

But that's what might happen if things change. There's no current reason to assume that English-speakers won't continue to refer to Turkey for decades and even centuries to come. Kahastok talk 18:59, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Baden-Württemberg

Camagüey

Ü-Tsang

Kitzbühel Arialu (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@Arialu:, I appreciate that you're new to this, but in general you will make your point much more effectively if you tell us what it is rather than leaving us to try and guess. Scattering the talk page with random place names is not helpful to anyone. Kahastok talk 20:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I think their point is that "ü" does, in fact, appear in multiple names used for various places in English (and in the English Wikipedia titles of them). Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Strongly support: Turkiye or Turkey has the right to choose it's name as a sorveign state. If Myanmar and Eswatini can change their name, so can Turkey. Iran changed its English name from Persia to its local name. So using the same logic Turkey, Türkiye, Türkiye or Turkland can also rightfully change its name. Here I am using this website (talk) 18:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

You already voted once, albeit somewhat ambiguously. I see a lot of people here arguing basically that they want to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, that Turkey somehow has some kind of moral right to have its desires represented on this Wikipedia article. No, it doesn't. If English usage changes, we change. If it does not change, then it is not for us to try and change it. We follow changes that occur on their own. We do not attempt to lead it. Kahastok talk 18:59, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Amen. I would prefer that it be called Türkiye too, but WP:COMMONNAME applies. Just be patient and wait till it catches on (if it catches on), people. Yekshemesh (talk) 01:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong Support of the rename. I'm aware of the COMMONNAME policy but feel it stands in the way of a site as large as Wikipedia being used as a force-for-good in informing the general public of the rename to Turkiye. The country's new name was adopted for well-argued reasons and stands to be a much more heavily promoted change from Turkiye's part in comparison to the under-the-radar acceptance of Czechia alongside its longform name. Keeping the name Turkey stands directly against the wishes of the country (again in contrast to the more muted impact seen from Czechia) and I feel Wikipedia owes it to Turkiye to not misrepresent them after passing through all official channels to not only adopt the new name and pronunciation of Turkiye for English speakers, but specifically remove Turkey as an accepted name. ToastUltimatum (talk) 03:25, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
  • With that said however, it seems fairly clear that the vote will again opt in favour of keeping the outdated name, so if this is to be the case, I at least think there is a compromise to be made with the opening line of the paragraph. Even with Turkey retained as the article title, I think it would be fair to reword the introductions to reflect the official name first before integrating the COMMONNAME principle into the text itself:

The Republic of Türkiye (Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] ^ⓘ), more commonly referred to as Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye [ˈtyɾcije]), is a transcontinental country...

This would be in line with the United Kingdom article for example, which mentions United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in its introduction before using the term United Kingdom. WP:COMMONNAME is a policy specific to article titles, but in the factual coverage of the introduction, I believe the new official name of the country must be mentioned before proceeding with the former name that the country wishes to phase out. ToastUltimatum (talk) 03:58, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose and suggest WP:SNOW close - It's too early to know if Türkiye will ever catch on. Maybe it will, like Eswatini or North Macedonia. Or maybe it'll be another Czechia situation. These actually aren't the best examples - this seems more comparable to how Ivory Coast is officially Côte d'Ivoire in English, but we don't refer to it as such, or how Cape Verde is officially Cabo Verde in English, but we don't refer to it as such, either. My best guess is that Türkiye will never catch on, but I don't have a crystal ball. All I know is that as of writing this, the common name is undoubtedly Turkey. Let's revisit this if news outlets start referring to the country as Türkiye.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 04:45, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

  São Tomé and Príncipe ? Arialu (talk) 18:34, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

São Tomé and Príncipe is different to the other cases because that actually is the country's common English name; nobody calls it Saint Thomas and Prince. YttriumShrew (talk) 21:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support Although this is purely a politically motivated and populist decision unilaterally taken by Erdogan, it IS what the UN decided to go with and as such we need to respect that decision. Alexceltare2 (talk) 13:15, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. This is the English Wikipedia, and the common English name is Turkey. The title of the article for Germany is not Deutschland, the article for Japan is not Nippon, the article for China is not Zhōngguó, and the article for India is not Bhārat. The title of this article should be Turkey not Türkiye. - GretLomborg (talk) 14:57, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

  São Tomé and Príncipe ? Arialu (talk) 18:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose for the same reasons started by user GretLomborg immediately above. Obviously the article can and must address this issue and can surely do so quite effectively and clearly, but that's a completely separate issue from what the name of the article ought to be. Addressing the issue in the article's text would also resolve the purported "spreading misinformation" concern some people above have expressed. 1995hoo (talk) 15:49, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. We use the country's common English-language name, not its official one. See East Timor, Ivory Coast, Czech Republic and Cape Verde. -- Vaulter 16:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

  São Tomé and Príncipe ? Arialu (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose as this is en.wikipedia.org. ValarianB (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

  UNTERM English: Türkiye. I get that it is not English common name, but it IS designed (pushed) for English. Chrz (talk) 17:55, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. It is less ambiguous and more respectful to call the country Türkiye. If not to be moved, the lead sentence should be rephrased as:

The Republic of Türkiye (Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] ^ⓘ), commonly known as Turkey,...

just in the same form as the United Kingdom article:

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain,...

Gu0427 (talk) 18:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment It's ridiculous to suggest this should be moved to 'Turkiye' and not 'Türkiye,' but I'd like to see all the COMMONNAME opposition tell me what's different in this case compared to that of eSwatini, which is definitely still more commonly called 'Swaziland' (14.4 million 'Swaziland' to 12.4 million 'eSwatini' Google results in the past year—and many of the latter undoubtedly influenced by Wikipedia's change). 104.246.222.113 (talk) 18:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

  Who’s to say that was “right” or will stick. See WP:OTHERCONTENT and WP:CONSENSUSCANCHANGE. DeCausa (talk) 20:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support for Türkiye, even though it seems that some people don't want to change the name today, I'm sure in the future it will probably be changed through enough usage by news outlets and academic journals. People don't like change but it is what it is. I also think it should retain the two dots on the ü like in Zürich Amir Abdullah (talk) 22:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment If my math is correct, the !votes are as follows: 70 total !votes, 19 supports (including the nom), 51 opposes. Consensus will not develop to move the page. I would WP:SNOW close it myself if I wasn't involved.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 23:39, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment: Per User:Arialu's comments, I wish to repeat that the issue is not "accent marks are evil" but that Turkey is unilaterally trying to change the common name in English. I would oppose the propsal regardless of whether Turkey wanted to use Turkiye or Türkiye. JIP | Talk 01:14, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. There are many countries whose official or native names are different from the ones used commonly by English sources. Some of the examples are Japan (Nippon), Spain (España), Germany (Deutschland), Italy (Italia), etc. Keivan.f^Talk 05:03, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support. They officially changed their name. Sources will catch on. On Wikipedia changing the article name reduces the confusion between the country and the bird, an issue not present with the Czech Republic or Czhechia situation, there is no poultry involved in that dispute that is a very common word. --StellarNerd (talk) 19:39, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

  Check Republic, Cheque Republic... confuuuuusing... Poor hungry Hungary, finish Finnish and polish Polish :) Chrz (talk) 20:09, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

  Turkey/turkey = homophone & homograph. Polish/polish = homophone & homograph, but /wiki/Polish & /wiki/polish both lead to a disambiguation page, whereas /wiki/Turkey & /wiki/turkey both lead to the country's page. The rest of your examples differ in spelling, which, in a discussion about ambiguity in a written encyclopedia, matters more than pronunciation. Comm.unity (talk) 20:21, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment Some name changes should defer less overwhelmingly to the WP:COMMONNAME guideline in cases where the reason for the change is to avoid belittling & possibly pejorative connotation—ostensibly part of Turkey/Turkiye's reason. This type of reason, if genuine, goes above & beyond the circumstances of a country name like Cabo/Cape Verde, where the word in question is simply a literal translation of a common noun. Comm.unity (talk) 20:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Request to rename Turkey (the bird) to Türkiye

As türkiyes are named after türkiye I feel as though the reason for doing so is self evident. However, additionally it would also bring awareness to the name change itself and put a spotlight on the right of indigenous peoples to be referred to using their own language (such as Kiev and chicken kievs now being Kyiv and chicken kyivs in many butchers). It'd be a trivial way to show that the Wikimedia Foundation's volunteers support Türkiye's name change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.69.4.85 (talk) 13:36, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Addendum: "Chicken Kiev (Ukrainian: котлета по-київськи, kotleta po-kyivsky; Russian: котлета по-киевски, kotleta po-kiyevski, literally "cutlet Kyiv-style")[note 1] or Chicken Kyiv" from the chicken kiev page. Can we get something like this for the turkey (bird) page? Just a small addition that says they're also known as türkiyes. I feel as that would be appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.69.4.85 (talk) 13:39, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done This is not the page to request a move for Turkey (bird). Request it on that article’s talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CollectiveSolidarity (talk • contribs) 17:38, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

My bad dude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.69.4.85 (talk) 13:38, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Surely you meant that as a joke :) Someone here took it seriously lol. Yekshemesh (talk) 04:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Check Talk: Turkey (bird). Edit requests should be never treated as a joke. Unless it is obviously patent nonsense. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 05:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2022

Please change all uses of "Turkey" to "Türkiye". That is now the official UN spelling. Jacksonmcdonald3425 (talk) 06:19, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done. Please see Talk:Turkey#Requested_move_3_June_2022 above. Black Kite (talk) 06:57, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2022 (2)

It says the driving side is right. That is incorrect. It is the left. 2A01:4B00:8463:1700:2188:916C:42F2:2C83 (talk) 20:46, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: It is right according to this website. Do you have a source for your claim, or are you just looking out the window from your location in the UK? Favonian (talk) 20:55, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Or are you confused between the side of the road driven on and the location of the driver within the vehicle?--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 03:48, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 June 2022

2A02:842A:84B8:5B01:4C0E:9AC6:69EA:BAA1 (talk) 15:34, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Türkiye

comment I assume you are referring to the news that the President of Turkey wants the country to be called "Türkiye" In my opinion, this should not be edited yet, until there is wide adoption of the name by the media. The Wikipedia policy is to use the widely used version of the name. Elliswiki7 (talk) 18:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Get consensus first. See similar requests on this page. RudolfRed (talk) 22:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2022

"Turkey" should be changed to "Türkiye" 46.114.91.126 (talk) 21:12, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done per consensus at the recent RM. Kahastok talk 21:33, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Lead sentence - mention Türkiye as official name

Given all the hubbub around the official name change, I would like to propose a mention of the official name being "Türkiye" in the lead, in a somewhat similar fashion to Ivory Coast / Côte d'Ivoire:

Turkey, officially Türkiye (Turkish: [ˈtyɾcije]) and in long form the Republic of Türkiye (Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] ^ⓘ)

Appreciate any good faith feedback, especially in terms of wording and ensuring good prose. MSG17 (talk) 11:53, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

It is "UN official short name". ISO says Turkey. UK recognizes Turkey as official short name. USA - CIA says it's Turkey. Britannica - Turkey... etc. Which source has a privilege to declare "official" names in English language? Check UNGEGN and you will see dozens of differences between Wikipedia and UN what is considered official name (short and long). Chrz (talk) 12:07, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't mean to say official as in "the official name decided by a language regulator/external authority", but official as in "officially sanctioned by the Turkish government". Of course, Turkey is still by and far the common name. MSG17 (talk) 12:41, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, and I say: In the sentence "Turkey, officially Türkiye", according to who is it official? And is there only one main authority which decides offficial ENGLISH name? Turkish government is able to create official Turkish short name and official Turkish political name. UN lists official names for its intentions and purposes but is it "the official" name to be in the lead? Is there only one official short name in English for this country and who announces it? Also, editors here do not differentiate between official and formal. They think that there's some kind of common (usually very short) name, which is totally unofficial, and then the official name meaning political name for diplomacy. UN and ISO lists up to 2 names for each country and both of them are official, so...

Also, "official English name" and "English translation of official name in foreign language" are generally 2 different things and we are looking for the first one. Chrz (talk) 12:51, 4 June 2022 (UTC) Chrz (talk) 13:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

There is no such thing as an "official English name" in the sense you mean. For the simple reason that there is no controlling body for the English language. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:23, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

So WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY does every single article does have "officially" in LEDE? Wikipedia-officially I gues >:( Chrz (talk) 17:44, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

No, that is "official" as in "what the country calls itself in English". --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 20:10, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

UN official names: Short name, Formal name

ISO official names: Short name, Full name

Yet another typical terminology: Geographical name, Political name

What country calls itself in English: typically 2 names, short and long

Wiki terminology: Common name, Official name Chrz (talk) 21:13, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• It should be mentioned in the lede and infobox, that Republic of Türkiye is the official name. Khestwol (talk) 12:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Or perhaps, Turkey or Türkiye, officially Republic of Türkiye. Beshogur (talk) 19:28, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

The name the country uses, Republic of Türkiye, should of course be noted both in infobox and lede. It already is, though, so I assume there's nothing to do in regards to this? Jeppiz (talk) 22:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

-My ignorant opinion:
I can understand they wanting to deviate from the English word for turkey/bird..

Although in a way it should be irrelevant to them,
if ignorant English speakers mistake the name with whatever animal name/connotation, then it's the english speaker's problem/fault..
Turks shouldn't care of what another group of ppl understand,
and anyway in each and every language the name will be adapted differently..

However, I think the new orthography is also wrong/misleading to other languages.

For instance, me being Spanish/Catalan will read the word Turkiye just as it's written: Tur-ki-ye
But when you listen a Turkish person's pronunciation it's just like: Tur-kie

So yeah, now for being nitpicks everyone will start pronouncing it like Tur-ki-ye,
and then they will complain that it makes it sound more like russian/slav languajes..

Meanwhile in Spain we will keep calling it Turquia,
so what's the point? Quintessence7 (talk) 08:31, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Precedent: Czechia registered in July 2016 -> Wikipedia adds "also known as Czechia" to LEDE in a matter of days. I think Türkiye is entitled to this too. Chrz (talk) 14:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

We should only say that it is "also known as Türkiye" if we can demonstrate that that is true, to any significant degree. Nobody has even tried to do that yet. Kahastok talk 17:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Is "known as" is too much? We can drop it to: "also Türkiye". Or add "in diplomatic circles". Chrz (talk) 17:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

No, it's too much WP:WEIGHT to give to this point, based on the actual level of usage. It belongs in the Name section. Kahastok talk 18:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

It would result in the word Türkiye appearing four times in the opening sentence compared to Czechia appearing once in the first sentence of its article.. Overkill is another way of conveying WP:UNDUE. DeCausa (talk) 20:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

So? 2 of those are Turkish, you can hide them into a note, just like with the Czech Republic article (why are they hidden I don't know, maybe because of Bohemia it is "too much names" or whatever). "Türkiye" and "Republic of Türkiye" are two different proper nouns no matter they look similar. LEDE typically contains both: XYZ and Republic of XYZ (when formal political name is in such substantive form). Chrz (talk) 20:45, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

It’s irrelevant that “2 of those are Turkish”. It’s a Turkish word. Why would would you hide them in a note. that makes no sense. Too much of this discussion is about making a point rather than thinking about conveying information to the reader. There’s already 3 words in the opeing sentence tells the English-speaking reader that Türkiye is a word for Turkey. We don’t need a fourth. The reader has well and truly got the message already. in the Czech Republic article the reader is told only once that Czechia is a word for the country. That’s the difference. DeCausa (talk) 20:59, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Your proposal: LEDE will not say that Türkiye is alternative English name of the country. THAT's the difference. It will say that Türkiye is Turkish name for the country and that political name in English is Republic of Türkiye. No word about "just Türkiye" in English, because reader can peel it off / deduce it from that "Republic of Türkiye"? Better just to say it than to create word puzzles for readers. Or hypotetic scenario: Türkiye becomes commonname - you say, do not include it in LEDE, too much Türkiyes. Strange. Chrz (talk) 21:10, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

”Puzzles for readers”. What are you talking about? It says “officially the Republic of Türkiye”. How can “also known as Türkiye“ possibly add anything worthwhile? It doesn’t. it’s just pointless and repetitive - and it’s on top of “(Turkish: Türkiye)” and “(Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti}”. How many times and how many different ways do we have to say that Türkiye means Turkey? DeCausa (talk)

I let someone else deal with it, someone who cares more. I am fed up with this "my opionion is THE TRUTH so consensus is what I say". "Türkiye" and "Republic of Türkiye" are two different proper nouns, they are both valid, we should list them both in full - that is worth a while. Chrz (talk) 21:25, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

‘"Türkiye" and "Republic of Türkiye" are two different proper nouns“‘ makes no sense. There’s only one proper noun, Türkiye, repeated twice. Once on its own and once with a modifier. It’s ironic that you complain about "my opionion is THE TRUTH so consensus is what I say" then go on to do exactly that: “they are both valid, we should list them both in full”!! DeCausa (talk) 21:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Czech Republic precedent - "also known as" in LEDE starts with UN registration. Or was it last straw?

Ivory Coast precedent - how to list names which are pushed into English but are clearly foreign in nature. "Why would would you hide them in a note. that makes no sense." Hm....

My way - precedents, analogies, custom practice, previous consensuses, bigger truth :P Chrz (talk) 22:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately “your way” isn’t Wikipedia’s way, per WP:OTHERCONTENT. We don’t do “precedent” in in that way because “anyone can edit an article”. WP:LOCALCONSENSUS is just that. DeCausa (talk) 22:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, let's do the same thing 10 different ways, just for the sake of it. First sentence is typical object of edit wars and then consensuses based on analogies. Examples of previous result help greatly, no need to hustle over the same thing all over. Chrz (talk) 22:09, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I’ve just realised you don’t have much WP experience. Consensus and approaches being different between articles is the norm and consensus within an article changes over time anyway. “Precedent” just doesn’t work here. Nothing, but nothing, is set in stone. That’s just how it is. DeCausa (talk) 22:25, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey, the victim at X-mas in Britain, US etc) is in German: TRUTHAHN. I would suggest :-) to change the present name of the country in: TRÜTHANIYE. By saving the Ü, of course.

Best from Germany. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orientalist (talk • contribs) 08:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Unification of the first sentence is pretty common thing. Better resolve the format (formats) once than argue again and again with each and every article. Chrz (talk) 17:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Fully agreed. While the lede implies that Türkiye is the name in Turkish, the fact that "Türkiye" (on its own) is an alternate name that exists IN ENGLISH is yet to be mentioned in the lede. Secondly, they ARE two different proper nouns. Thirdly, Ivory Coast's lede begins with "Ivory Coast, also known as Côte d'Ivoire, officially the Republic of Côte d'Ivoire". East Timor's lede begins with "East Timor, also known as Timor-Leste, officially the Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste". i.e. BOTH of them mention all three forms of the name "XXX, also known as YYY, officially the Republic of YYY". The words "Turkey, also known as Türkiye" should be added to the lede. Paintspot Infez (talk) 18:20, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I would say that the "also known as" isn't required if the official name includes the alternate name --Spekkios (talk) 08:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:List_of_sovereign_states#Differences Chrz (talk) 17:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Source link from the United Nations: Turkiye –Furkan (talk) 16:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

I think we can use “Turkiye” from the title. But we should also add ”Türkiye”, which is the official name, to the introductory sentence. –Furkan (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

+Source link from UEFA: UEFA –Furkan (talk) 18:56, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

If the title isn't changed to Turkiye then the North Macedonia article should revert back to Macedonia. DOMINATOR1000 (talk) 14:58, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey to "Türkiye"

I think we should change the shorthand name to Türkiye as well considering that's what its officially now know as, will be the common term referring to it going forward and would just be confusing to have contradicting names on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:14B4:3400:C469:D25F:D0EA:5F3E (talk) 08:51, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done. Consensus is that we must continue using "Turkey". CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 16:45, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Pretty hypocritical how trans people who change their names get their articles renamed the very same day, but when a country with millions of people changes their name, the opinions of the UN and some randos on wikipedia somehow matter more than their own government. Stop the selectiveness and hypocrisy. They are Turkiye now, simple as that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.192.236 (talk) 22:11, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. How can we have one rule for North Macedonia, but a different one for this article? A name has been changed, it should reflect that in the same way that it has for the North Macedonia article. DOMINATOR1000 (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

The name had not changed, Turkey simply ordered that the Turkish variant of it's name should be used in other languages. It can not order that, it can only ask that. Every language decides for itself witch names to use. Turkey has no authority over the English language. Türkiye is clearly not an English name, it does not follow English orthographic rules, therefore it's completely logic that the name will have more difficulties to catch on.--2A02:1811:CD07:E900:FD8A:1739:C6EA:C240 (talk) 22:09, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

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Participation of Swedish and Finnish Wikipedians in Turkey name change discussions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I am a bit concerned about the participation of Swedish and Finnish Wikipedians in discussions relating to the Turkey name change issue. Due to the recent NATO membership conflict involving Sweden, Finland, and Turkey, relationships between these countries deteriorated a lot. Some of the comments made by Swedish or Finnish Wikipedians in this talk page were clearly politically motivated and biased.

My suggestion is that Swedish or Finnish Wikipedians should refrain from participating in "Turkey name change"-related discussions any further as there is no way they could maintain WP:NPOV in this issue. Thank you for your cooperation. 2001:8003:9008:1301:1DEC:6878:4502:E89B (talk) 02:33, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

As I said above, there is no restriction on an editor based on the editor's nationality, nor will there ever be. This is bigotry, plain and simple. ValarianB (talk) 11:48, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes but let's ban all the nationalities that are clearly politically motivated and biased: Turkish editors first? (Sarcasm alert: for the avoidance of doubt, this is Ad absurdum.) DeCausa (talk) 14:10, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protection of this talk page

I know it is not a common thing to have a talk-page semi-protected, but are there any thoughts if it may be beneficial to go make a request at RfPP? Say 3 months or so of a cooling-down period so we don't have to answer "Change Turkey to Türkiye" every day, and similar? ValarianB (talk) 11:52, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Unlikely to be granted on that basis. Besides, it may never really go away. CMD (talk) 13:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• I have added a talkpage editnotice. Click "edit" to see it. Might help, might not. Black Kite (talk) 14:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

  Well no one could claim to not see it! hopefully it will help. DeCausa (talk) 14:57, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

  Well, apart from anyone on an iOS device, or using mobile web, due to our top quality applications! Black Kite (talk) 15:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

  iOS? I'm seeing it on my iPhone and iPad. DeCausa (talk) 17:23, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

  DeCausa Are you? That's interesting, you might want to mention that at the page I linked. Black Kite (talk) 10:18, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

  Posted on talk page there. DeCausa (talk) 16:48, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey struggles with name rebrand. Turkish Airlines are being renamed too, and it will be 100 times easier to rename a company on Wikipedia (people will agree more willingly) than a country. Chrz (talk) 16:16, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Why don't you want to discuss it? Eranvez1414 (talk) 02:58, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Because it's been raised and discussed multiple times and it is clear that there is no consensus to make the change. DeCausa (talk) 09:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Name change

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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It is disrespectful to disregard the will of Turkiye to rename the country. Thank you for your consideration. 2A01:C22:D471:EA00:3C1A:8343:FC86:A2BB (talk) 18:41, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Cabo Verde, Czechia, Timor-Leste, Côte d'Ivoire, Viet Nam... So now the club of Wikipedia's disrespect and disregard welcomes Türkiye (or Turkiye?!) :) "Will" is not enough. Chrz (talk) 20:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Rhodesia, Siam, Ceylon, Burma and many other countries will to change their names was accepted, why not Turkeys will, too? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C22:D471:EA00:3C1A:8343:FC86:A2BB (talk) 22:28, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussed 100 times already. Those were "accepted" by newpaper, media, books. Chrz (talk) 04:28, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Just for comparison: other than discussion about the history of Siam/Thailand (primarily, but not limited to, discussion about the musical The King and I), and a couple of fixed phrases which use the word "Siamese" (a type of cat and conjoined twins), I don't think I had ever seen or heard the word Siam in any form. Animal lover |666| 14:02, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I guess you are young. I grew up with the name Siam and even the Pouges sing a song about "Summer in Siam" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C22:CC33:6C00:3C1A:8343:FC86:A2BB (talk) 00:07, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

It is disrespectful of erdogan to demand a change to a localized name with a long tradition just to get some nationalist voters on his side. as this is just that, a PR stunt, nothing should happen until the next election is over Norschweden (talk) 23:01, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

I am a bit concerned about the participation of Swedish and Finnish Wikipedians in discussions relating to the Turkey name change issue. Due to the recent NATO membership conflict involving Sweden, Finland, and Turkey, relationships between these countries deteriorated a lot. Some of the comments made by Swedish or Finnish Wikipedians in this talk page were clearly politically motivated and biased. Some of them even deleted other people's comments and accused them as being "nationalists" while themselves were totally intolerant and acted in an unreasonable manner.

In order to avoid potential conflict, my suggestion is that Swedish or Finnish Wikipedians should refrain from participating in "Turkey name change"-related discussions any further as there is no way they could maintain WP:NPOV in this issue. Thank you for your cooperation. 2001:8003:9008:1301:1DEC:6878:4502:E89B (talk) 03:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Um, no, there is no restriction on an editor based on the editor's nationality, nor will there ever be. The mere suggestion of this reeks of bigotry. ValarianB (talk) 11:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I didn't say we should restrict them. I just wanted to point out the issue and hopefully some of them would refrain from participating in the discussions to avoid further escalating the conflict. 2001:8003:9008:1301:1DEC:6878:4502:E89B (talk) 09:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

The NATO membership candidate conflicts between Finland+Sweden and Turkey are not related to foods, rather, that's about Kurds terrorism such as Gülen hareketi. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Please see this, which is at the top of this talk page. --Spekkios (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

It is entirely normal for English usage of the name of a sovereign state to change when the legal government changes it. This has happened many times in Africa, notably one of two states called Congo to Zaire and back.

It is observed with Myanmar and Sri Lanka.

So not changing it now is absurd.

The given reason is also sensible - Turkey is also the name of a bird, and a mildly disrespectful term.

There are of course many sovereign state happy to use the standard English name when writing in English. Deutchland as Germany, for instance. Or China for Zhōngguó. But that is their choice.

Given the pig-headed refusal of many Wikipedians to allow mere facts to override their wishes, I am not going to expend my own time doing this. But it definitely must happen. --GwydionM (talk) 08:31, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussed 100 times already: For example to cite great Kahastok's reply:

"If media organisations - specifically, mainstream English-speaking media outlets in English-speaking countries - start systematically using Türkiye instead of Turkey when discussing the country outside the context of the rename, then that would suggest that we might be nearing the point where a move should be taken seriously."

So you should address your objections (absurdity, sensibility and "pig-head" remarks) to "media outlets in English-speaking countries" first. Chrz (talk) 09:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Reference works are supposed to correct errors, rather than recycle them. And there is a general pattern of using word-accents and other diacritical marks, even though few news services bother. --GwydionM (talk) 10:03, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

One thing is to add alternative name to the article. And completely different thing is to name the article. Turkey is not an error, it is still one of names for the country, older name but still more common. Chrz (talk) 11:15, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/07/04/could-turkiyes-first-carbon-neutral-hotel-chain-help-kick-start-its-sustainable-tourism-re 95.70.245.88 (talk) 20:39, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2022/07/09/canada-to-use-traditional-spelling-of-turkiye-following-un-move/ 31.223.49.110 (talk) 10:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/canada-traditional-spelling-t-rkiye-081902380.html?src=rss 31.223.49.110 (talk) 10:04, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Canada.ca is the Government of Canada's digital presence. The goal of this site is to make it easier for Canadians to find and understand Government of Canada information and services.

https://www.international.gc.ca/country-pays/turkiye/index.aspx?lang=eng

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/turkiye?_ga=2.241526018.1868201480.1657361899-577191161.1657361899 31.223.49.110 (talk) 10:22, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

GOV.UK is the website for the UK government. It’s the best place to find government services and information.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-call-with-president-of-turkiye-21-june-2022

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cop26-president-to-visit-turkiye-to-progress-delivery-of-the-glasgow-climate-pact 31.223.49.110 (talk) 10:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Delete any new Türkiye name discussions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I propose to delete any new "Türkiye" name-change-related discussions that appear and do this for at least for the next month or so. They have become disruptive and people are continuously sparking discussions about it. The consensus of not changing the name has been the same every single time and discussions are purely repetitive and redundant at this point. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 22:08, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

You strongly object to a small discussion of an important issue? Is that the spirit that makes for a good reference work?--GwydionM (talk) 09:24, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

It is called moratorium and it is pretty common after unsuccessful move requests. The topic was discussed, evaluated, give it a rest until new arguments and evidence occur. Chrz (talk) 15:42, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

We have had "small discussions", and the outcome of those was that the current name is accurate to English-speaking media and sources. You can find those conversations above. --Spekkios (talk) 02:59, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Filling the talk page with dozens of "Move the page/No" paragraphs is not a good use of anybody's time. doktorb _words^deeds 05:02, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

It's fairly standard procedure to remove repetitive requests on talk pages when it is getting overbearing, especially as many of them will have ignored the edit notice. However at the moment I m not sure it rises to the level of disruption yet. Black Kite (talk) 09:17, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

A lot of repetitive requests were already deleted. But it gradually cools down. Chrz (talk) 09:29, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Support I suggest to request starting an AC/DS here to technically stop em. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:26, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

The boyfriend of TOWIE star Yazmin Oukhellou, 33, is said to have been driving near Bohrum in Türkiye, when he 'lost control' of a vehicle the couple were in and was sadly unable to be saved by emergency services.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/hollyoaks-chelsee-healey-completely-shaken-27396841 31.223.49.110 (talk) 11:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

If you have a useful contribution to this discussion, that has not already been made several times, please make it. This talk page is not a repository of random links. Kahastok talk 11:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

https://data.worldbank.org/country/turkiye

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/06/13/climate-action-could-provide-nearly-150-billion-in-savings-for-turkiye-by-2040-says-pioneering-world-bank-study

https://www.worldbank.org/en/about/leadership/members 31.223.49.110 (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Change please Turkey to Turkiye,even our country means on international platforms Türkiye

Change please Turkey to Turkiye,even our country means on international platforms Türkiye 5.176.63.139 (talk) 15:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

See the discussions above. We don't go by what's official or what's in use on specific platforms, we go by what's most commonly used. Largoplazo (talk) 15:19, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

I guess some IP users are able to use 2017 Wikitext editor, and hence they can simply ignore the editnotice for this talk page? In such cases, I would love to propose an AbuseFilter to technically hold up such requests. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:02, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

The topic name won't change to Türkiye anytime soon

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The name of the topic will stay Turkey, since the name is still used by most of the foreigners and also us Turks, and it seems that it won't change anytime soon. Even for example Kyiv, which uses its English name this way since 1995, was changed from Kiev in Wikipedia in 2020. Some people still refer to the city Kiev, even though it's not the correct English usage. There is also Ivory Coast, which its formal name is Côte d'Ivoire, is still written by its English name here. So don't expect this name change anytime soon. But I personally would like to see more information about the name change in "Name of Turkey" page, it seems that this change was made so instantly and without asking anyone, and also many governmental and international organisations (Such as UN, NATO, UEFA etc.) accepted this name change so fastly. 85.104.192.243 (talk) 09:41, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

As a general rule, Wikipedia uses the WP:COMMONNAME, not the official name. As long as "Turkey" is the most common name in English that shall be this article's title. Just because the official name changed, it doesn't mean Wikipedia changes. The official name of South Korea is Republic of Korea and North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of Korea but those aren't the titles used. Masterhatch (talk) 12:47, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion on Wikipedia is ridiculous - of course if you consider all news media, whatever, in history, there are more uses for "Turkey". Nobody called it "Türkiye" until recently and so there isn't going to be anyone from, say, two years ago calling it "Türkiye". In the last week, there are 23 pages of Google News searches for "Türkiye" -"Turkey" and 20 for -"Türkiye" "Turkey". (And obviously some of the latter are about the bird, not the country.) The number of people using the correct name will continue to grow and the number using the former name will continue to be reduced. --B (talk) 16:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

That's why we have WP:CRYSTAL, WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:COMMONNAME. I don't think I've ever seen an admin make such a determinedly policy-free, IP drive-by type comment before. DeCausa (talk) 17:41, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it will. Or it might (per WP:CRYSTAL) not. There are many previous examples where a name was changed quite quickly (i.e. within months) but there are equally examples where it took years, or hasn't even been changed at all. Bit of a strange comment from an admin, woh I'd expect to know that WP:COMMONNAME is a policy. Black Kite (talk) 17:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Among the news articles published subsequent to the name change, "Türkiye" is the more common name. For the whole of articles/books/whatever published sometime between the beginning of the world and today, of course "Turkey" is the more common name. But if you only consider things published since the name change, "Türkiye" is more common. --B (talk) 18:23, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

I would be happy to see the evidence for that statement which conforms to WP:COMMONNAME and bearing in mind that ngram is not able to provide any useful data given the recent nature of the "change". You seem to have a preconceived certainty of what is the "correct" name in the English language which overrides WP:COMMONNAME and whatever the future (which none of us can know) will determine. I don't see any change in the English-language WP:RS such as The New York Times, The Guardian, BBC, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times etc etc etc ad infinitum, or is it your view that they can't compare as WP:RS with the likes of TRT and the Turkish government outlets. I'm happy to see an admin taking NPOV so much to heart. DeCausa (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

If you look at who is using "Turkiye" on Google News, apart from a few Governments and Turkish/Azeri etc. services there are currently very few indeed (especialy if you remove the stories that are "Turkey changes its name to "Turkiye"). It might well be that Turkiye becomes more used - but it isn't anywhere near yet. Black Kite (talk) 18:47, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.