Talk:The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Dead external links to Allmusic website – December 2010

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

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--CactusBot (talk) 12:28, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

 Fixed BNutzer (talk) 13:40, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Rick Wakeman

The article says he was offered the chance to play keyboards on the album, but turned it down in order to join Yes. The listing of personnel includes him. Why the contradiction? My memory of the credits on the back of the LP is that he was credited with keyboards, but as I don't have a copy any more, I'm not about to delete the denial that he did do so. Lovingboth (talk) 21:20, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I believe what he was offered was the chance to become a permanent member of the group, and turned that down for Yes -- if we want to include this tidbit and need a citation I can probably find it... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:57, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Allmusic says that Rick Wakeman played on the album. But Apparently he is not on the credits of the original vynil album.--Wiki Factualizor (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Rick Wakeman is not mentioned playing piano on the album, Mick Ronson is credited with it. I have the LP to confirm this. --Sideburndude (talk) 02:22, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Can you find another citation saying that Rick Wakeman is not creditted? --Wiki Factualizor (talk) 02:57, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, on all the websites I have been on Rick Wakeman was never credited with playing on this album or being a part of "The Spiders from Mars" (The Wikipedia page "The Spiders from Mars" says this too). In addition Rick Wakeman was never mentioned in the CD booklet or included in any pictures with the band. This leads me to believe he was never a part of this album. --Sideburndude (talk) 23:24, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Big Jim Sullivan

Session Guitarist Big Jim Sullivan claims to have played on this album.

He claimed to have played on other albums that he clearly didn't play on. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 22:00, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Genre(s)

Glam Rock is not the Genre of an Audio song, It is a performance style. I have changed the genre of this Album to Pop Rock as said by this referance: http://www.allmusic.com/album/ziggy-stardust-r2473 . If You disagree with Glam Rock not being able to an audio genre please say so. Wiki Factualizor (talk) 23:15, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article refers to glam rock as a music style and a rock genre. —C.Fred (talk) 23:35, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

So then should the album genre be called Rock Music? Wiki Factualizor (talk) 00:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Certainly not if you're using an upper-case "M" ;)  -- WikHead (talk) 00:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Then Rock music --Wiki Factualizor (talk) 00:20, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I strongly suggest we just stick with Glam Rock or possibly Art rock too. --Sideburndude (talk) 03:30, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Glam rock is nor a genre that can be associated with a certain sound, Glam Rock is a Performance style. I agree it is an art rock album but I do not beleive I could get a verafiable source or consensus.--Wiki Factualizor (talk) 22:47, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Music ratings missing

The Circus and PopMatters ratings have dissapeared, can someone correct it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.233.245.32 (talk) 00:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Location of cover and phone booth

The Article says that a new red phone both replaced a modern blue booth which in turn replaced the booth on the cover, at the location of the cover shot. However, if you look at photos of the location as it looks now, and in the recent past, which are easy to find, there is no phone both at all in that location. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 22:03, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

"atonal and rhythmically irregular tape effects"?

This is a weird phrase that seems not to describe the recording. The cited source is behind a paywall, so it's impossible to check, but regardless of its veracity I propose it is inappropriate for the header of such a long article unless it can be shown to be the consensus of critics. Thoughts? 50.156.35.227 (talk) 01:21, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Autoharp

Yes, it does sound like an autoharp, rather than a harpsichord, on "Five Years", but what's the source for that? And it certainly is a harpsichord and not a piano on "It Ain't Easy" (whether or not it was actually Wakeman - see above)? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Newly surfaced release date

New information was posted on the official David Bowie Facebook account concerning the release date of this album. The staff states, backed by a communication from RCA's product manager, that the release date of the album was June 16th 1972 (Friday), and not June 6th as it was generally believed.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/davidbowie/photos/a.424610777664.193516.30899502664/10152812379637665/?type=1

This information should be reflected in the Wikipedia page of the album, mentioning the source and maybe the confusion about the date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamuzajoe (talk • contribs) 20:19, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Release date

This album entered the Billboard Bubbling Under the Top LP's chart the week ending June 10, 1972 and the survey period for that chart would have been Monday, May 22 to Sunday, May 28, indicating a release date of June 6 would be quite impossible. The album first appeared in the Billboard FM Action report in the June 3 issue and that report typically covers a seven-day period ending 10 days prior to the issue date, or May 24. The album appeared in the new album reviews section of Cash Box and the "Hits of the Week" section of Record World in the May 27 issues. The album also appeared in Record Worlds FM airplay report in the May 27 issue and an article about the album in that issue says that the album "is available." All of this information points to a release date during the week of May 22 at the latest. Piriczki (talk) 17:34, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

About Record World, couldn't it be an error or just publicity? (May 27 issue). I found nothing about Cash Box or Billboard Bubbling Under the Top LPs. But there's really a confusion about the release date. For example, Buckley mentions the release date as 6 June, and Buckley (2012), Auslander (2006), O'Leary (2015) and even Mick Woodmansey cite the release date as simply "June 1972". – electricController 20:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

I am confident in the UK release date of June 16 not just because it comes from davidbowie.com but because they verified that date from contemporary documentation from RCA Records (see the discussion above). As for the US release date, I was unable to find anything specific. The original version of this article did not cite any sources and had varying and wildly inaccurate release dates shown at different times, all without sources so I am wary of anything published after 2002. I don't know where the release date of June 6 came from or whether that is supposed to be for the UK or US. It may have come from an erroneous assumption floating around Wikipedia that an album's release date is 11 days prior to its chart debut date. I suggest leaving the UK release date in the article since it appears to be accurate and is cited, and if it is left as simply "June 1972" that will just invite constant changes with users trying to add specific and likely inaccurate dates to the article. Readers might also assume it was released in the US in June which doesn't seem possible. Piriczki (talk) 15:50, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

It seems reasonable. – electricController 16:24, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Also, I found the Billboard reference. – electricController 16:41, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 17:19, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Utterly brilliant album, covered "Moonage Daydream", "Starman" and "Hang On To Yourself" in various bands and jam sessions over the years. I just read through the article (as I was listening to my original RCA vinyl copy for the first time in a while), and thought "this should be a GA". Then I noticed it was up for review. So this shouldn't take too long.

I tend to copyedit as I go and ask questions for things I'm not sure about.

• Why is "rock star" in the lead piped to Celebrity?
• The citation "Timothy White's Rock Stars: Hearing Pictures: David Bowie's Sound + Vision" needs more information, specifically time in the interview where the information cited is mentioned. It might be easier to find an alternative book source and use that instead.

Coincidentally, I'm the one who uploaded this info in the first place. I can go back and get a time stamp for the citation. However it appears that the citation and the information it conveyed have been removed from the article (not sure why - maybe the editor didn't think they could get the info so cut it out)? So let me know if it's needed/wanted and I can get it. 87Fan (talk) 20:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

• Doesn't Arnold Corns come into the picture around the time of the early Ziggy sessions?
• Bowie also intended "All the Young Dudes",[9] "Rebel Rebel" and "Rock 'n' Roll with Me" to be on a Ziggy Stardust musical" - do you mean "part of a Ziggy Stardust musical?"
• Do we know why Bowie decided to cover "It Ain't Easy"?
• As well as Vince Taylor, didn't Mark Bolan influence the Ziggy character? He became a chart success just before Bowie, but had been performing for years before that on the same London touring circuit.
• For the album, Mick Ronson used an electric guitar plugged to a 100-watt Marshall amplifier and a wah-wah pedal; - a Gibson Les Paul, surely?
• "Bowie's vocals are double tracked, which gives an effect of two people singing and suggests a band performance" - although this is sourced, the most common reason for double tracking is to strengthen a vocal performance, as extensively used by everyone from The Beatles downwards (and indeed, gave rise to Automatic Double Tracking - can you check this?
• Is it worth mentioning what songs on the album were played on the tour? I think most were, but I don't think "It Ain't Easy" was.
• Why is Rick Wakeman credited on the 1999 reissue but not the original album? I know by the time the album was being recorded he was off and away touring with Yes, so might not have had time to make the sessions.

Not too many issues I can see stopping this meeting the GA criteria, so I'll put this on hold now. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:49, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@Drmies:, @Cullen328: - the nominator for this one seems to have disappeared, any chance you could resolve the issues? I could probably do it myself, but as reviewer there's probably some conflict of interest clause against that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:23, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

@Koossepa: Any chance you can resolve the remaining issues here? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:41, 14 November 2017 (UTC) @Ritchie333: I'd love to work on this, but I'm especially busy in my "day job" at the moment. I'll check back in occasionally when I can. Koossepa (talk) 14:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)Koossepa

Comments by an utterly devoted Drmies

• Rock star: for no good reason.
• Timothy White: I can't answer that, but a better source would be nice. That Background section isn't great, and one wonders what any of it matters. The last sentence seems to have no connection to the previous.
• Arnold Corns: if you say so--this is news to me. Yes, those "versions" are mentioned in the tracklist of the 2002 EMI/Virgin version, so it better be mentioned, probably in the Background section. But I don't have the books. Drmies (talk) 17:16, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

As the nominator's disappeared, I think I'll have to park this review for the time being - the outstanding issues require access to good sources I don't have right now. Hey ho. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:05, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

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Influenced by, or influential?

The following sentence...

"The album, and the character of Ziggy Stardust, were influenced by glam rock..."

...doesn't seem right to me. Although it's true that Marc Bolan is generally credited with kicking Glam Rock off, there is no question that David Bowie picked up the baton and ran with it pretty quickly. My point is that I would say the album INFLUENCED and expanded Glam Rock, not that it was influenced by it, as though it was jumping on the bandwagon. If you see what I mean? FillsHerTease (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:14, 21 April 2018 (UTC)