Talk:System 7

Untitled

I think the name "Mac OS" was already applied to 7.5.1, not 7.6. However, the progress bar during startup (and with it the smiling doubleface) also came with 7.5.1, not 7.5.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.137.89 (talk) 22:19, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Regardless, "Mac OS" was not the official name until version 7.6.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.20.215 (talk) 09:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Missing Information

I think this article is missing lots of information and detail about System 7, here are some suggestions I've thought up:

• More detail on the major new features introduced in System 7.
• Details of the system architecture, and kernel.
• Info about the software System 7 came bundled with.
• The price of System 7 when it was new ?
• Details about the System Utilities
• Details about the Server capabilities
• More pictures would be nice
• Exact release date of System 7.0
• Suggested software for System 7
• More external links
• Windows Compatibility section may be interesting
• See Also section to related articles
• Reference section so user's know where the information in this article was obtained from so they know that it is valid.

Wackymacs 10:51, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

regarding the price: I recall I paid 40 pounds (GB) for my copy of 7.0. Graham 03:14, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

ForgeAus (talk) 04:59, 20 July 2021 (UTC) minor recommendation - Add in at least something about Project Star Trek (Apple System7 overlaying Novel DRDOS) if things like Taligent get a mention I don't see why this shouldn't - also it gives some slight insight to some inroads of how later Intel Macs began - albeit a line of pretty much inhouse or preview precursors to OSX at the time you don't need to go through *all that* - pretty much all you need to say about it is that it was like I mentioned earlier an Overlay of MacOS - complete with a fancy colour "Welcome to Macintosh" splash screen that ran - in an alternative way to early Windows like Windows 3.x) on DOS - feel free to link to other articles if there is more info on Wikipedia about it.

Lost opportunity?

The section titled "A lost opportunity?" smacks of original research and POV editorialization. I'm inclined to move it to the talk page. Does anyone know if this is a common opinion in the Mac community? (I stopped following the Mac press after System 8 or so, so I wouldn't know.) jdb ❋ (talk) 01:29, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you, this really is speculation and opinion, not fact. There are points I might concur with, but that's irrelevant - the section is unencyclopedic. I suggest removing it. Graham 03:27, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ditto. Tverbeek 11:58, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree as well, It should be removed since it is not factual but rather opinionated, and personally I don't think its too true.

Wackymacs 19:04, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Windows Compatibility

Windows Compatibility is listed here as a feature of System 7. I believe it was actually introduced as an optional product for 7.1.1 (that was bundled with some PowerBooks), and rolled into System 7 with the 7.5 release. Does anyone else remember this? --Steven Fisher 08:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I remember the PC Exchange control panel being added later, but even before that System 7 itself included basic Windows compatibility which previous versions of the Mac OS did not have, such as the ability to read/write MS-DOS disks and read PC formatted .TXT files in Simpletext. — Wackymacs 09:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

You mean the Apple/PC File Exchange application? --Steven Fisher 23:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

My recollection is that DOS disks mounted "natively" in an earlier version of System 7 than 7.5, though whether this was 7.0 I can't recall - my copy of 7.0 is no longer accessible (no floppy drive!). In fact DOS disks were usable on System 6, since the FDHD drive was introduced on the Mac SE, though I think these required going through a control panel to use them. Since a touted feature of the FDHD drive was compatibility with DOS disks, there must have been some software support for DOS files, otherwise it wouldn't be very useful. Graham 03:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't 7.0 - I found the user manual for 7.0, and it only discusses Apple File Exchange for formatting and translating DOS disks/files. Looks like this was also the approach on System 6. Back to square one - sorry. Graham 03:22, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

My recollection is of being able to mount DOS disks onto the desktop of 7.1 without having to go through any special control panel or application, but there are some important caveats to that:

1. I may simply not have paid attention to everything that was running on the school-owned Mac, given my almost-exclusive PC usage at the time. Yes, I'm a switcher.

2. That was a long time ago.

I do remember that I could put a DOS floppy into a Mac of that era and successfully edit the files with Microsoft Word. --Tachikoma 22:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I have edited this article to be correct. System 7.5 and later could natively access PC-formatted CDs and floppies with an extension called PC Exchange, which was distributed freely with 7.5 and later. The first versions of System 7 could not, except for System 7.1 Pro, an additional-cost version of System 7.1 that included PC Exchange. -- Lincoln R.

This is what I remembered, too, but I'm wondering if you have a reference. --Steven Fisher 23:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Server Information

Many machines shipped from Apple as Apple Workgroup Servers which were normal Power Macs running System 7, but also inclded AppleShare server software so they could be used as file servers. The AppleShare software was fairly flexible, allowing for multiple user accounts, restricted access to certain folders or entire drives, drop-box functions, etc...

A bunch of third party accessories were designed to function with these servers, including little ADB devices that would detect if the server crashed, and send a force restart command.

Later updates to AppleShare, called AppleShare IP, allowed these servers to act as mail, ftp, web, and gopher servers as well. The latest version that works with System 7 is AppleShare IP 5.0.2. It requires Mac OS 7.6 and OpenDoc. Version 5.0.2 was also the first version to work with Mac OS 8.0 or higher.

System 7 vs. system software 6 upgrades

It is my recollection that prior to system 7, one could upgrade from system 5 or earlier to system 6 for very little cost by going to your local Mac user group and purchasing a upgrade disk for around the cost of the floppy it came on. Starting with System 7, one had to buy a retail boxed version of the OS to upgrade from System Software 6 or earlier. Minor updates where offered free via such as mediums floppies or cd's included with Mac magazines or via BBS/online service downloads. I think this should be mentioned in the article if I am indeed remembering things correctly. A cursory search of Google turned up nothing. --20:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You could upgrade to 7.0.0 for free by visiting an Apple dealer, where you could copy the floppy disks, though it was considered nice to buy the floppies there. If you wanted the box and manuals, you had to buy the upgrade. ProhibitOnions 21:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

7.0 was 'not' free. Anyone giving away copies of 7.0 disks were giving away at-cost commercial software, just as if they were to give away Mac OS X Leopard copies. Yes, Apple allowed recently-purchased computers to upgrade for little cost (the cost of the floppies,) but that was the same as more recent programs. Only well after System 7 was obsolete did Apple release disk images of System 7 for free on their web/ftp site. System 7 marked the FIRST "for cost" upgrade for Mac users, costing $100 71.193.207.217 (talk) 22:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Article name...

If this is, as I suspect it is, by far the most common use of "System 7", could it be made to be the main "System 7" page instead of the current disambig page? I'd never heard of the other 3 possible uses of it, one of which doesn't even have a page yet! 68.39.174.238 12:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. "System 7" should automatically directo to this page, with a disambig notice at the top. (24.15.20.215 13:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC))

"Shake up"

Removed the comment about it being the biggest "shake-up" aside from OS X. System 7's interface, aside from the color, was mostly just a gradual improvement over 6. The change from 68k to PowerPC could be argued as having a bigger impact. That and it's completely subjective, unless someone can provide surveys or something showing what the user base thought about it. Riotgear 20:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Compability-wise, System 7 was the biggest shake-up ever in the development of the Mac OS. This was the only time such a large amount of apps broke. The PowerPC switch only ever broke apps that relied on the 68k FPU being present, since the FPU was not being emulated, and there was a shareware extension that fixed this as well. Even the Mac OS X transition was smoother, since there was always the Classic environment to fall back on. Interface-wise you're correct though - it was really only the Finder and the Apple menu that changed in any major way - but then the PowerPC transition didn't affect this at all.

I don't know what you're talking about, but System 7 was a complete departure from System 6, replacing the simplistic Macintosh system software with an advanced, much more capable, but resource-hungry system. Simply because the interface was almost the same doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal. 24.15.20.215 08:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

I've formally requested this article be moved and replace the current disambig page that shows up when "System 7" is searched.

This article has been moved from System 7 (Macintosh) to System 7 as the result of a primary topic move request listed at WP:RM. Dekimasuよ! 01:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Mac OS 7.6.x Details

The details about Mac OS 7.6.x are really lacking. I suspect this may have something to do with the fact that Mac OS 7.5.x is free, and Mac OS 7.6.x is not, and therefore few people actually have 7.6.x or remember much about it. But there certainly was more to this release than a new Extensions Manager. It was the first major Mac OS version released after the cancellation of Copland. I'd like to see more detail about the new PowerPC optimizations, and what exactly was done to increase stability (which is evident from using the software a lot).

Apple Technical Note TN1090 contains information about the improvements in Mac OS 7.6, and Apple Technical Note TN1096 contains information about the improvements in the Mac OS 7.6.1 update that followed shortly afterwards. Dpaanlka 19:41, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I added a little more detail about 7.6.1 and the fix for "type 11" errors. That was by far the major stability improvement. Note the technote web site address has changed to [1] for 7.6.1. Owlmonkey 09:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that a YouTube link to Apple's 1997 MacWorld Boston Expo as a reference was considered "Unreliable." This is found under the passage that reads

...Apple announced plans to release an OS update every six months until Rhapsody (which would later evolve into Mac OS X) shipped.

What exactly makes an Apple recorded keynote unreliable? Is it because of the fact that a user uploaded a copy of the video and not Apple themselves? Troyoda1990 (talk) 19:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Secondary Image

An unsigned edit has recently removed the secondary image of Mac OS 7.6.1. I have reverted to the previous edit before that, as I believe a secondary (and tertiary, and so on) supplemental image on this page is perfectly appropriate. It is intended to show what the software can do, not be a universal representation of all System 7 (which is why it has been reverted to it's original location towards the bottom of the page from the top of the page, where someone had previously moved it). So much moving around! Dpaanlka 15:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Added info about 7.5.5

I'm new to editing wikipedia :) Just wanted people to know that the info I put comes straight from apple's docs. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.167.51 (talk) 02:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Easter Egg Policy?

Yesterday, an non-user with an IP address added content related to System 7 and an easter egg. It was not sourced and I'm not sure what Wikipedia's policy is on such things. The content read:

"If You Open A Disk Image File With The System 7 Os Installed In A Hex Editor The Text Below Is Seen. Text: "1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991 Apple Computer Inc. All Rights Reserved. Help! Help! WeÕre being held prisoner in a system software factory! The Blue Meanies Darin Adler Scott Boyd Chris Derossi Cynthia Jasper Brian McGhie Greg Marriott Beatrice Sochor Dean Yu"

Should we add this back or..? Troyoda1990 (talk) 04:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

No, if for no reason other than every word is capitalized. 67.175.241.233 (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, sounds good. I'm not sure why the anonymous person added this, but I'm glad to clarify whether Easter Eggs was a part of YouTube's policy. Troyoda1990 (talk) 19:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Browser

Was a web browser included with early System 7? The article talks about Netscape, but that browser did not exist until 1994. Did Macs run NCSA Mosaic in 1993? - Parsa (talk) 02:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

No web browsers were included with any version of System 7. Some Macs included "Internet" CDs or extra software pre-installed that included browsers. They are not part of the operating system, and wouldn't be there if you reformatted and simply installed the operating system. Dpaanlka (talk) 19:47, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

More history notes

I suspect that the decision to rename System 4.4/Finder 6.1 to what is now System 6.0.x was done around the time the Blue/System 7 project was created. I strongly suspect that a clear distinction between System 6 and System 7 was a major factor in this renaming. At least one source says this was done at the last minute, so March 1988 does sounds correct. - Yuhong (talk) 07:26, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

That being said, I would not be surprised if some of the planning for the "Blue" project dates before that. - Yuhong (talk) 23:17, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Here is a Usenet source describing some of the requirements of System 7 from May 1988: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac/EV7O4Qkiq6g/bjq3CltUUVwJ - Yuhong (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2018 (UTC)