Talk:Suzette Davenport

DYK nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Suzette Davenport was the first woman to lead Gloucestershire Constabulary in 174 years? Source: "Ms Davenport, 49, was one of four candidates interviewed to head the 2,207-strong constabulary and it will be the first time in the force's 174-year history that a woman has been at the helm." [1]
  • ALT1:... that Suzette Davenport required her officers not to have uncovered beards? Source: "Chief Constable Suzette Davenport has ordered her officers to either cover up their stylish beards or trim them right down so they look more 'professional'." [2]

• Reviewed: Pending Template:Did you know nominations/Kathleen Pelham Burn

5x expanded by YorkshireLad (talk). Self-nominated at 20:40, 1 April 2020 (UTC).

• The hooks are not ideal. No woman could have led the force for most of those 174 years as there were no women police officers for most of that time. The second might expose her to ridicule and isn't suitable for a living person (or am I wrong?). How about that "senior policewoman Suzette Davenport was responsible for crime and diversity in Staffordshire?" Philafrenzy (talk) 10:21, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

• Philafrenzy, I don't really like ALT1 either for that exact reason, I just wanted to suggest options. I think the original is fine: it's in the source, and it's a common thing to report when a woman takes a male-dominated role for the first time:

• "Oxford university has nominated Professor Louise Richardson, a political scientist, as its first ever female vice-chancellor, bringing to an end 785 years of male academic leadership." [3]
• "Cressida Dick is the new Metropolitan Police commissioner, becoming the first woman to take charge of London's police force in its 188-year history." [4]

and so on. It's also not true that there were no women police officers for most of that time: the first woman to serve with Gloucestershire Constabulary was in 1918. [5] [Note for reviewer: the 174-year fact is no longer in the article, and would have to be restored before that hook could be used. The citation given here for it remains in place.]

I'm not sure I like your proposed hook, sorry: it's undoubtedly a fact from the article, but I'm not sure it's enough of a draw to make you want to read it. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 11:18, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

• Suggestion: we could have

ALT2: ... that Suzette Davenport was the first woman to lead Gloucestershire Constabulary?

with the same source as for the original hook. I prefer the number of years to be included, but I think the fact that she was the first woman is a more interesting fact that a particular portfolio she held. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 11:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

The media may use that formulation but that doesn't stop it being a bit silly. There might have been policewomen but there was no chance of a female chief constable was there? Philafrenzy (talk) 11:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Philafrenzy, true, but this feels very subjective. At what point was there a chance? There has to be some way of reporting how long it's taken an organisation to have a woman leading it. (I suspect we're not going to agree on this, and may need to wait for the third opinion of whoever reviews the nomination...) YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 11:43, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

The first point at which there was a chance was probably in the later twentieth century, in other words not very long before it actually happened, thus proving that the credit she deserves is for her appointment to the post not for being a woman doing what no woman could have done much before her anyway. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Philafrenzy, Can you provide evidence for The first point at which there was a chance was probably in the later twentieth century? Like I said, it feels very subjective.

Incidentally (and just to clarify), do you object to ALT2? YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 14:09, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Obviously I don't have evidence as I assume women were not blocked by law from rising to that rank. It's more a matter of social conditions. I have just looked it up and I see it was Pauline Clare in Lancashire in 1995 which I didn't know when I commented earlier and proves my point I think. No I don't object to Alt 2 but it is the reviewer whose opinion you need. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:06, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it has to be a reviewer (I've done this before!). But since you objected to the original and ALT1, and that might be taken into account by a reviewer, I thought it was worth getting your opinion. I do see where you're coming from, but I remain unconvinced that it's sufficiently "silly" that it can't be included in the article; on the other hand, as I said before, whether or not it was included in the article is not a point I would have particularly cared about had my preferred choice of hook for DYK not depended on it, or had I been able to think of a better one! Perhaps best just to wait and see what the third opinion of the reviewer is. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 18:16, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

How about:

ALT3: ... that British police officer Suzette Davenport was responsible for crime in Staffordshire and intelligence in the West Midlands? -- In the final "quirky" slot". Philafrenzy (talk) 13:32, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Philafrenzy, Oh, I do like that one.  :-) If I may, I'll label that as ALT3 for the convenience of the reviewer. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 20:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:31, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

• 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. ALT3 is hooky; hook refs verified and cited inline. QPQ done. ALT3 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 2 May 2020 (UTC)