Talk:Sharada Peeth/GA1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Vami IV (talk · contribs) 14:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Opening statement

In reviews I conduct, I may make small copyedits. These will only be limited to spelling and punctuation (removal of double spaces and such). I will only make substantive edits that change the flow and structure of the prose if I previously suggested and it is necessary. For replying to Reviewer comment, please use  Done,  Fixed,  Added,  Not done,  Doing..., or  Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make. I will be crossing out my comments as they are redressed, and only mine. A detailed, section-by-section review will follow. —♠Vami_IV†♠ 14:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

A note: This is a temple, and should have been filed under the "Art and architecture" category of GANs. If/when this article passes, I will list under "Art and architecture". –♠Vami_IV†♠ 14:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

History and etymology

• Ganges River around 1500 BC The rest of the article uses CE, so this should be BCE.

   Done

• Citations [11], [14], [19], [26] are repeated redundantly.

   Done Done for [11], [14] and [26]. Not sure where the redundancy is for [19], though if you point it (/them) out, I'll remove it (/them).

• This has fed the popular belief that Sharada was developed in Kashmir. I recommend replacing "Sharada" here with "the script".

   Done

• Many of these associations with it took place during Buddhist Kashmir (3rd century BC – 8th century AD). Revise this if referring to a specific period, as it seems to be. Consider "the Buddhist period of Kashmiri history", or something to that effect.  Done
• where he studied under a Kashmiri scholar of Sarvastivada, a prominent monastic school of Buddhism. Shorten this to "where he studied under a Kashmiri scholar of the Sarvastivada school".

   Done

• the Tibetan language Insert a wikilink here.

   Done

• She said that he Change "he" to "Shankara", as I assume it refers to him.

   Done

• In the 11th century, the Vaishnava saint Swami Ramanuja traveled from Srirangam to refer to the Brahma Sutras, before commencing work on writing his commentary on the Brahma sutras, the Sri Bhasya. Did Swami Ramanuja travel to Sharada Peeth for this?

   Done Yes, and I have replaced the citation with one that is more explicit about this.

• In the 15th century, the historian Jonaraja described a visit by the Kashmiri sultan Zain-ul-Abidin in 1422 CE. Delete "In the fifteenth century"; it is redundant and vague where "1422" is specific.

   Removed

• In Rajatarangini, Kalhana describes an event during Lalitaditya's reign (713-755), [...] This paragraph is out of place and should be moved up.

   Done

• I recommend moving all literary and cultural references to a new section, as their significance to Sharada Peeth's history is just to say that something was at this site. You can then make brief mention of these works in the history section as you need for that function.

   Done This was a great suggestion, thank you. I must apologise for adding to your work, because this involved some rather extensive restructuring, though I didn't add any new content. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 11:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• 26 still repeated here: The sultan visited the temple seeking a vision of the goddess, but grew angry with her because she did not appear to him in person.[26] In frustration, he slept in the court of the temple, where she appeared to him in a dream.[26]

 Removed

(@Vami IV: Just to say that I've done the last part of the page, as requested. Thanks very much for the review. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 11:38, 4 April 2020 (UTC))

I'm willing to wait and do more to bring this review to a successful conclusion. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 20:51, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I appreciate that. I will follow up on the rest of your notes. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:27, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Literary and cultural references

• In the 14th century text Madhaviya Shankara Vijayam, [...] There is no citation at the end of this paragraph. It appears to have drifted down the page to [28] Engaging with them,. Citation [28] is also repeated needlessly throughout the two highlighted paragraphs.

 Done

• Citation [26] is still repeated needlessly here: Kalhana believed that the Royal Army took refuge in Sharada Peeth,[26] because it had the open space required for a temporary military village, and because the area surrounding the Sirahsila Castle was not large enough to host a camp for a siege without the siege force being vulnerable to archers.[26]

 Removed

• And 29 here: In the Carnatic music song kalavathi kamalasana yuvathi, the 19th century composer Muthuswami Dikshitar refers to Sharada Peeth as Saraswati's abode.[29] Set in the raga yagapriya, the song praises Saraswati:[29]

 Removed

• Citation 15 here: The 11th century poet Bilhana describes both the spiritual and academic elements of Sharada Peeth, referring to it as the source of Kashmir's reputation as a centre of learning.[15] He also described the goddess Sharada as resembling a swan, carrying the gold washed from the Madhumati river as her diadem.[15]

 Removed

As a temple

• Citation 26 is the only citation in the first paragraph of "Hindu legends". It should not be repeated even once. Add more citations or delete the repeats.

 Removed

• Kashmiri Pandits believe that Sharada in Kashmir is a tripartite embodiment of the goddess Shakti: Sharada (goddess of learning), Saraswati (goddess of knowledge), and Vagdevi (goddess of speech, which articulates power). How is this relevant to the temple? Please expand on this to explain the relevance of Shakti to Sharada Peeth.

 Done This was just to explain how Kashmiris see the goddess worshipped at the temple, because different parts of India see the goddess Saraswati (aka Sharada) differently. Some see her simply as the goddess of knowledge, others see her as an overall manifestation of the Goddess Mother. I have changed it to "Kashmiri Pandits believe that the goddess Sharada worshipped in Sharada Peeth is a tripartite embodiment of the goddess Shakti: Sharada (goddess of learning), Saraswati (goddess of knowledge), and Vagdevi (goddess of speech, which articulates power)." Is this better? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 07:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

It's a good start. Now, it'd be good to see the temple's importance to the Pandits and its history with them. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Vami_IV I've expanded it. Would you have a look and let me know what you think? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 12:56, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Will do. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 14:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• Move both images in "As a temple" to the right.

 Done Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Why is "Legendary origins" cut in half now?

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• There are now two "As a temples". So, now, I suggest "As a Temple" be renamed "religious significance", and "Legendary origins" moved into "History and etymology".

 Done Good call, thank you. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Please condense the first paragraph of "Hindu legends", and link to Shadilya and the Vedas.

 Done Done, as far as I thought possible... Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Eventually, goddess revealed herself the goddess

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Expand the link to the Kashmir (princely state) to all of princely state of Kashmir.

 Done Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• and that giants Is there a link that can be made here?

 Not done Not that I know of... Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Found one. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 10:31, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm hesitant to use that one because I don't know if the legend is a Hindu one. One of the legendary stories mentions azan, so it might be Muslim, but that's not specified either. I'm concerned that choosing one way or another falls under WP:NOR. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 11:31, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Ah. Well, in that case, I'll just mark off this bullet-point and close down this section at long last. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 12:48, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Great! Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 14:12, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• In her fury, Try "Furious,"

 Done Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Post-Indian independence

• For tourists that do visit, the ruins of the shrine are often overshadowed by the natural beauty of the surrounding valley. Phrase this differently.

 Done Is this better? "Tourists to the Neelum Valley often overlook the ruins of the shrine, instead spending time in the scenic valley surrounding it"? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• manner that Katasraj Temple the Katasraj Temples

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• to the Pakistan government Pakistani

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• to Sharada Peeth site another missing "the"

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• Paragraphs 2 and 4 are virtually the same. Combine them.

 Done 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• Paragraph 3 should precede Paragraph 2/4.

 Done 13:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Take 2

• Pakistani Hindus rarely visit the temple, preferring to visit sites farther south in Sindh, Balochistan, and Punjab provinces. As such, restoration of the temple is not considered a priority in the manner that the Katasraj Temples were regarded by the Pakistani government. Missing citation. This sentence would be a nice addition to the first paragraph.

 Not done Couldn't find a citation. I've removed the line. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

• Re-reading, Paragraphs 2 and 3 can and should be combined for brevity. They cover much of the same ground.

 Done Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Location

• This section is prime lead material. I'd move it up there.

 Done I've copied a slightly shortened version to the lead. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

You've just copied and pasted but the last bit of this section into the lead, without the citations. Just move the section up there without that un-copied bit. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 12:54, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• 150 kilometres [...] 10 kilometres [...] 1,981 metres above sea level Add Template:Convert

 Done Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Architecture

• I... don't consider this section worthy reviewing just yet. It needs tightening up, expansion, and wikilinks. From my own experience in writing about architecture, I suggest a sort of "tour" and a short architectural of the site.

 Done This is a fair comment, and I will work on this section. I am rather a novice at writing about architecture so I will defer to your better judgment. Do you happen to have any suggestions of Wikipedia pages which I can take inspiration from? I've searched but I couldn't find one with an "architecture" section. Also, did you mean "short architectural history"? At present, I have only two sources: (1) Aurel Stein from the 19th century, and (2) Salman Rashid from 2018. They speculate about the history of the temple, and I could include that, if you think it would be a good idea? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

For examples, check out what's listed under Wikipedia:Good articles/Art and architecture#Architecture's "Religious" section. A "short architectural history" would be changes made over the years and way. Those sources should do as long as they're credible. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 15:49, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done Please see. I have exams coming up, so I will have to take a wikibreak soon. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 06:20, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Vami_IV I'm able to come back to Wikipedia sporadically. Would you let me know what you think of the new section/what more you think I should work on? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

• There are missing citations.

 Fixed Sorry, I didn't realise that citations had to be at the end of each paragraph; I was under the impression that it was fine if they are at the end of the text they support. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 12:11, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Vami_IV Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:28, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• account by Aurel Stein Who? Introduce him, IE "the Extemebaelian adventurer Johann Gotitgood".

 Done I had thought that a link to Stein's profile would be enough. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• possibly because architects disliked plain outside walls, or else possibly so that even if the spire collapsed, a visitor would be able to tell what the temple originally looked like. Sounds WP:OR to me. And did the architects just foresee the future ruinous condition of the temple?

 Not done This comes from footnote 14. Not an outlandish suggestion, I think, given that the area is prone to earthquakes, and given the mythological significance of the original architecture. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done I have, however, edited the statement to make clear that it is a suggestion. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:23, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• The design is simple Design of what?

 Fixed Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• rising higher than either the walls or pillars. Arches are usually assumed to do this.

 Removed Understood. This was specifically detailed in footnote 29 and I assumed it was significant. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Vami_IV Done, thank you. I've also replaced the photo because I felt that the previous one didn't quite illustrate this section well. The new one situates the temple in the compound. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

GA progress

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.