Talk:Royal New Zealand Air Force

WAAF

Nothing about the WAAF (note this should not be confused with the UK WAAF article) or women in the RNZAF? I will put a re-direct page in until either it is included in this article or gets it own.--Pandaplodder (talk) 12:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

needs expansion

For instance the 21st century section notes that the A-4 Skyhawk and Aermacchi MB-339 squadrons were disbanded; however, the previous section on the post-world war airforce never notes that they were acquired. Rmhermen 14:28, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that

Have added a one para summary of post war developments divided the other two paras into one tracing the combat fleet history and one the support fleet, and and a couple of scentences about the combat fleet aquisitions and losses from the late 60s. However appreciate the whole article tends to be a list of aircraft rather than analysis. What would you like to see? Incidentally, I note someone added a late WWII RNZAF pacific theatre roundel, which promptly got deleted - not sure what the politics of that are, but there was nothing inaccurate about the roundel. Winstonwolfe 21:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

No politics involved. In stating "Aircraft roundel of the RNZAF in later World War II" the caption to that image inferred that it was THE roundel used in later WW11. It wasn't, because there were several different designs. There indeed was something inaccurate about the image -- the yellow ring wasn't complete -- but that's not a biggie. It would be a good idea to show all of the different identification markings used by the RNZAF. User:Hierakares who inserted the image has only made one edit to Wiki, but if he returns I'll try to contact him about it. We could also explain why it was necessary to replace the blue-white-red circular roundel which was used in the Pacific for some time. To the Americans, the RNZAF barred-roundels looked more like American insignia (and therefore friendlies) than the circular one which even had a red dot in it (smaller than the Japanese red dot, but a red dot nonetheless).

- hence the earlier version which reduced the red circle to a miniscule dot, though later research showed pilots were unable to recognise red colour at any distance. I thought some variants of the roundel did not carry the outer yellow round the full circumference, but not a biggie. Full collection - including e.g. post war fernleafs would be a good idea. What did you think about the request for more material?

Hello people! I am not a specialist in questions about RNZAF, in fact I am working mainly for Polish and German Wikipedia. But I made a number of roundels for Wiki-commons in the last weeks and I found this RNZAF-roundel very interesting. The only occurrence I found in fact was in a translation of the book "Flying Colour" by William green & Gordon Swanborough (ISBN 9780861019441) (book with a lot of painted aircraft of WW2, considered to be read and used by modellers) on a RNZAF Douglas Dauntless. I do not remember the squadron, but I will look it up for you. I have got the original picture I uploaded as an editable file, so I would be no problem to change the yellow border. -- Hierakares 17:47, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Squadron would have been No. 25 Squadron RNZAF . :-) Winstonwolfe 01:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

RNZAF Ensign

Having never seen an actual photograph of the RNZAF Ensign, my question is if whether the one pictured containing the RAF-type roundel with "NZ" in the centre is still used or if one with the "Kiwi" roundel is used?--MarshallStack 15:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

The roundel in the ensign flown from buildings/flagpoles has the letters NZ. The roundel used on aircraft has the kiwi shape. Moriori 22:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC).

I knew about the "Kiwi" roundel - I've seen it on RNZAF A-4's, C-130's etc., and it's immediately recognisable as a symbol of New Zealand. I find it interesting that the Ensign hasn't been changed to reflect this, as has been the case in Australia (red kangaroo) and Canada (red maple leaf).--MarshallStack 04:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The official RNZAF ensign, the flag, has the letters NZ in the centre of the roundel. Authority? RNZAF PR in email exchanges today. Moriori 06:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not doubting you. I believe you. I just find it kind of an anomaly that the RNZAF hasn't changed their ensign to reflect the roundel carried on their aircraft, as the Aussies and Canadians have done. It's also the only one in my collection of Commonwealth Air Force Ensigns I don't have; I have one for the RAF, RCAF and RAAF but not the RNZAF.--MarshallStack 23:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

RNZAF P-40 Roundel

Hey guys when i was reading the discussions for RNZAF i noticed the issue of roundels, now i plyed around Google image search and found this

http://www.warbirdsite.com/P-40roundel.jpg

Would this be an accurate roundel used on RNZAF P-40's (if they did use them) and can anyone tell me what year were P-40's used. Thanks

Rgp2130 10:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Split off History?

I'm planning to expand the history section a bit. Given many other air force sites list history separately, I was wondering whether I should create a separate history article (or possibly even a series of articles) about RNZAF history, and concentrate on the present RNZAF on this page,(with a bit of background history, similar to what is there now)? What do you think? Winstonwolfe 06:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Nzairforce.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Nzairforce.jpg

Image:Nzairforce.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 09:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Number of aircraft?

Aircraft Six P-3K Orions are operated in the maritime patrol mission. Five were originally delivered in 1966 as P-3Bs. Another was purchased from the RAAF in 1985, following which all were upgraded to their current standard. (6 so far) Five SH-2G(NZ) Seasprites were purchased in 1997 for operation from the RNZN's new Anzac class frigates. Although these are navy aircraft, they are operated and maintained by the RNZAF. (11 so far) Three Beechcraft B200 King Airs were leased by the RNZAF in 1998, with a further two leased in 2000. These are used in the multi-engined training role. (5 in total, so 16 so far) Two Boeing 757-200s are operated in the fast air transport role. (18 so far) Five C-130H Hercules are operated in the air transport role. Three were delivered in 1966, with a further two in 1969. (23 so far) The UH-1H Iroquois is the most numerous operational aircraft in the RNZAF inventory, with 14 units in service. (37 so far) 13 Pacific Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainers were leased by the RNZAF in 1998 to serve as the air force's basic flying trainer. (50 so far) Five Bell 47 Sioux are in service as basic helicopter trainers. Five Agusta A109 helicopters will be acquired to replace the Sioux.[3] (55 so far). Eight NH90 helicopters have been purchased by the Ministry of Defence for $771 million, including costs for parts and services. Expected to be operational in New Zealand from 2010, they will replace the Iroquois.

As per the info from the article, the number of aircraft in operation is 55, not 53, (not counting the NH90s). Can anyone explain the discrepancy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.188.253.170 (talk) 10:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write that part, so I'm not sure how th eauthor got their figure, but the only explanation to get just 2 extra I can think of is counting the RNZAF historic flight's Tiger Moth and Harvard?Winstonwolfe (talk) 05:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

File:Nzairforce.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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New RNZAF Flag?

Hi all, on Michael Woodhouse MP's Facebook page, there's a pic of a light blue flag with the "Kiwi" roundel in the centre being flown by a parachutist (part of the Kiwi Blue stunt team), here. It looks as though (from the Airforce's own website) this flag has been in use for a few years. This picture dates from February 2009. Can anyone confirm this? If its true then the article has got it badly wrong, for some time. --LJ Holden 00:34, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I've seen that flag too, but it's not the official RNZAF ensign, because there are many pics of File:Ensign of the Royal New Zealand Air Force.svg still in official use. Fry1989 ^eh? 05:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Removal of former squadrons

Nos 1, 2, 4, 41, and 75 Squadrons were listed as "former squadrons" in the structure section of the article. It is not clear why these particular squadrons have been singled out. Nos 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17, 18, 29, 30, etc are all in the same rough category - not currently active - and were not listed. Many of these squadrons are mentioned in the text, and guidance for WP:FAs encourages us to move towards more text. Thus I have taken the former squadrons listing out, again. Buckshot06 (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

That seems sensible Nick-D (talk) 01:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Use of images in the table of current aircraft

The comment immediately below was posted on my talk page. I have transfered it here, which is the more appropriate place for it. --Epipelagic (talk) 02:41, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

---

Misleading edit summary? It’s pretty explicit on the Wikipedia:Image dos and don'ts: Don't overload articles with images & Don't use images for tables or charts. Further the source provided is current to 2017 as opposed to 2015, and there are un-sourced notes in the table defying WP:CBALL – cheers FOX 52 (talk) 21:35, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

You removed the then existing table with a misleading edit summary and subsequent rationale. First, you were not transparent, since you didn't say what you were doing, which was overwriting the table format. Second, you muddied the water by changing sourcing at the same time. If you are going to make what you must have known is likely to be a contentious edit then you should restrict your edit to the contentious part. You are now trying to throw up dust about your simultaneous changes to sourcing. I have no problem with that, and you can feel feel free to reinstate your sourcing changes. Third, you completely misread the Wikipedia guidelines. Let's take your claim that Don't use images for tables or charts means that you cannot use images IN tables or charts. That's nonsense. You wrote it down yourself, so read it properly. What it says is "Don't use images FOR tables or charts". Your other claim that illustrating eight different types of current aircraft with a small thumbnail in the table amounts to "overloading" the article. That is an extraordinary low threshold for "overloading". Accordingly, I have reinstated the table you overwrote, and request that you seek consensus here if you want to continue with this matter. --Epipelagic (talk) 03:11, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

I quite like the table having photos of the various aircraft. It should be able to easily source the details about when the aircraft are due to be replaced - the dates given look about right. Nick-D (talk) 03:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

No looks like it was restored from 2 years ago 13 July 2015 47.152.57.146 (talk) 04:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's not an issue. --Epipelagic (talk) 05:00, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

BillCJ has reverted with the claim that "per WP:AIR consensus, tables with photos are deprecated on air force articles". If that's true BillCJ, then there is no problem with your revert. But there are over 40 archives on the WP:AIR talk page, and I can't find this consensus you mention. Can you please point me to the consensus? --Epipelagic (talk) 06:45, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

It's at Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Lists#Use of images (the guideline page is commonly known as WP:AVILIST). - BilCat (talk) 06:56, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. --Epipelagic (talk) 07:01, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

New female PM - what's her take on the weakness of the air forces?

Will she back an upgrade in fighter aircraft? If there is a RS news report on this, it would add to the article's value. HammerFilmFan (talk) 12:38, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

The NZ Labour Party's defence policy states that it generally agrees with the force structure set out in the 2016 Defence White Paper, which didn't call for the reintroduction of fighter aircraft [1], and NZ First also didn't call for this in its defence policy [2]. This expert article says that Defence policies probably won't change much. PM Ardern has a name by the way - you don't need to refer to her only by her gender. Nick-D (talk) 07:29, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Duplication of "current inventory" table with List of active New Zealand military aircraft

I just noticed that "Current inventory" table of aircraft section on this page is duplication of List of active New Zealand military aircraft. The issue of duplication is if you want to update the content then you will need to update both pages (there is possibility that we update them differently and create may end up create different table of the exactly same subject) as per WP:REDUNDANTFORK.

My proposal are :

1. remove "current inventory" table on this page or on List of active New Zealand military aircraft. pick one of those pages and redirect the existing page to the other page. For example see List of equipment of the Royal Malaysian Air Force and List of aircraft of the Malaysian Armed Forces. This is the easiest solution.
2. or make a template page and use that template on this page and the other page. you will only need to change the template if the content needs to be updated. For example see Irish Air Corps and List of aircraft of the Irish Air Corps, both pages use Template:Active Irish Air Corps Aircraft. Ckfasdf (talk) 08:49, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Note: Personally, I'd prefer the option 1, to remove current inventory table on this article and add link to List of active New Zealand military aircraft. Since similar consensus has been reached for Talk:List of equipment of the Royal Malaysian Air Force#Duplication of "current inventory" table with List of aircraft of the Malaysian Armed Forces and Talk:List of equipment of the Philippine Air Force#Duplication of "current inventory" table with List of active military aircraft of the Philippines. Thank you. Ckfasdf (talk) 06:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)