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Talk:Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran/Archive 2

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Latest comment: 1 year ago by Trantorvega in topic Cyrus, again
Archive 1Archive 2

Emerged from exile

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This material isn't properly sourced, and doesn't make sense. First, has he emerged from exile? In other words, has he returned to Iran? If not then he's still in exile. None of the sources directly support the assertion. The first is simply a list of facebook friends. That tells us nothing other than he has many friends and supporters. The second source is a letter he wrote, calling for a peaceful revolution leading to a democratic Iran. The last two sources are from 2002, and obvious say nothing about the events of 2009.   Will Beback  talk  23:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Bio

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The chronology of the biography is very confusing. Can someone please put this in chronological order? Did he study before or after the air force? Did he then go abroad again? When did he return to the US? etc.etc dunnhaupt (talk) 21:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Cyrus, again

Latest comment: 1 year ago4 comments3 people in discussion

There are a number of anon editors who insist on adding in "Cyrus" as Reza Pahlavi's middle name. Considering the fact that his father's reign was otherwise replete with gratuitous reference to ancient Persia, I see no reason why this couldn't be, in fact, his real name. However, previous consensus (see both "Cyrus" headings above on this page, as well as page move debate here [1]) has repeatedly failed to find any reliable source to substantiate this. For years, the "Reza Cyrus Pahlavi" style of reference has only appeared in the web presence and texts of Iranian royalists (usually accompanied by "H.I.M." or other royal styles which, the consensus is, we shouldn't use) until very recently slipping from there to a single news story, reprinted among other places here [2]. However, Pahlavi's own web site and his official press releases never use this name. As it stands, its use seems explicitly associated with a specific POV which Wikipedia should not endorse (per WP:NPOV) and which he himself does not endorse either (making it a potential WP:BLP issue as well). I therefore implore future editors to not add the "Cyrus" back in without producing some real, reliable references to back it up. The continued insistence on edit warring behind anon IPs is only going to get this page protected. 80.221.34.183 (talk) 15:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I looked into this topic recently. The references I could find were photographs or press articles from the time of birth of the prince, in 1960. They referenced either Reza Cyrus or Reza Cyrus Ali Pahlavi.
See [3]This e-bay photo listing or several American press articles dating back to 1960.
Also several title given by foreign powers mention Cyrus or equivalent forms[4] Whether those constitute proof of an official title or not is not something I can personally say. Trantorvega (talk) 19:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Ironically, the above statement coming from an anonymous IP, who calls others "royalists." Very professional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.24.251.95 (talk) 02:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Reality check: we're editing Wikipedia. No one is a professional. I also submit that for someone still living in an Imperial Persian fantasyland thirty years after the coup d'etat, being called names on the Internet should be the least of problems (or what someone's middle name is, for that matter). 80.221.34.183 (talk) 05:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyone else notice that this is now a self-promotion article?

Latest comment: 14 years ago6 comments5 people in discussion

Sigh. PR (talk) 05:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I notice that. Isn't there a WP policy against editing and writing your own article? Skywriter (talk) 09:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I tracked the recent edits by the community. The edits have undone the contributions by bio subject, therefore removing the NPOV tag.ChelseaChat (talk) 15:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Sky & Chelsea! PR (talk) 17:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Speaking at Johns Hopkins University, Reza Pahlavi categorically denied that he edited his own article. 71.206.25.6 (talk) 01:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Really? Did someone ask him that?   Will Beback  talk  01:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Religion categories

Latest comment: 14 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

While cleaning out re-linked categories I notice that this subject was categorized both as an "Iranian Bahai" and as an "American Zoroastrian". Per WP:BLP we don't normally add religion categories to people unless it's self-declared and relevant to their notability. In this case, the subject's religion may well be germane, but it still needs a reliable source. I've removed both until we can clarify the matter.   Will Beback  talk  00:00, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Will Beback, there seems to be some edit warring on the issue of religion... tugging back and forth between Islam and Zoroastrianism. The official website of bio subject lists him as Shi'ite Muslim. Not sure why all the anon edit efforts to convert him to Zoroastrian. Head's up.BeachBoy66 (talk) 20:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Could you tell me which page on site has the info? I looked at http://www.rezapahlavi.org/biography/ and didn't see it there. Or just add it to the infobox yourself.   Will Beback  talk  21:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Well Bebak, here is a 2002 interview with Sir David Frost where Reza Pahlavi identifies himself as Muslim by saying: "But even revolutionary clerics with whom I'm in touch regularly today say to me in no uncertain terms that they realize the amount of damage that has been done to our religion and to the clerics themselves as a result of direct interference into politics."[1]

Here is a 2008 article in Payvand that refers to his Muslim background as well, with the exact text:

"Not displaying any outward sign of religiosity, the son of the late Shah of Iran whose namesake Imam Reza is Iran's most revered saint is nevertheless far from being indifferent to spiritual belief. He has named one of his daughters Iman (faith in Arabic) and although he never refers to it, he has performed the sacred duty required of devout Muslims of making a pilgrimage to Mecca. His refusal therefore to bring the religious factor into his campaign has been a matter of principle rather than apathy."[2]

I'll add the later reference to the infobox.BeachBoy66 (talk) 14:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://rezapahlavi.name/print/?english&id=54
  2. ^ http://payvand.com/news/08/may/1063.html
Thanks for tracking those down.   Will Beback  talk  20:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Crown Prince

Latest comment: 14 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Do we all agree that there is no throne of Iran anymore, and therefore no "Crown Prince" of Iran? Our article says that the subject's press releases refer to him as either "Reza Pahlavi" or "the former Crown Prince".   Will Beback  talk  03:13, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

You've changed it to "Former crown prince of Iran", but I would argue that's not appropriate either, since "former crown prince of Iran" is a description, not a title. Hairhorn (talk) 14:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I deleted it, but an anonymous user restored it. Seeking an acceptable compromise, I added "former". Can you suggest an alternative?   Will Beback  talk  00:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes, compliance with NCROY's suggestion (ignoring the irrelevant "Arab names" reference) at Names and titles outside the West, "There is no explicit convention for Middle Eastern countries; but contemporary monarchs with Arabic names are often treated much as this guideline would suggest: Mohammed V of Morocco, Abdullah II of Jordan." The guidelines crafted to address this issue are Sovereigns #9 and Other royals #5, exactly like Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia, Zera Yacob Amha Selassie, Crown Prince of Ethiopia and Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece. "Former..." is, indeed, a descriptor, not a title. Reza should be treated as Wikipedia treats other princely heirs-apparent born during the monarchy, but whose ancestor's loss of the throne prevented the son from succeeding to it. FactStraight (talk) 07:02, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree that we should be consistent. I am ambivalent about the issue of using titles that have been abolished. But in this case there's no question that the subject was the official Crown Prince at one time, while the throne still existed. (BTW, I was recently doing research on another topic at the library and looking at an old Life magazine. It had beautiful pictures of the Pahlavi coronation.) Anyway, I'm happy to see this resolved either way, but please let's try to settle this so it doesn't keep changing.
Thinking about it further, we're using the title to describe his main career or claim to fame. To give perhaps a poor analogy, George McFarland was an actor for only 10 years and had just one significant role that ended when he was a teenager. Even though he did many other things in his long life, we still label him as "Spanky" in the infobox and call him an actor in the lead.
Maybe an RFC or poll would provide clear guidance or consensus that we can point to when this comes up again.   Will Beback  talk  08:28, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Reverted again? Sheesh. Iran has no monarchy, so a fortiori no "crown prince" either. Hairhorn (talk) 12:45, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Pahlavi prince reza painting.jpg Nominated for Deletion

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
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File:Reza pahlavi playing football.JPG Nominated for Deletion

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File:Reza Pahlavi-jar.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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File:Cyrus small.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion

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wealth section

Is there enough information available about his accumulated wealth to create a section for it? I imagine there is but I may be wrong.

shahs last wife

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

is The shahs last wife alive ??? where does she live ?? do all the remaining children live in the usa?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.121.3.139 (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 21 August 2015

Latest comment: 9 years ago8 comments5 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran. Dab page moved to the base location. Jenks24 (talk) 17:30, 6 September 2015 (UTC)


– or perhaps move Reza Pahlavi to Reza Pahlavi (exiled prince) or to Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran – The current title is ambiguous with Reza Shah Pahlavi, this person's grandfather – the man who founded the Pahlavi dynasty, who is a much more well-known figure with much greater long-term historical significance. Reza Pahlavi should be a disambiguation page – and in fact Reza Pahlavi (disambiguation) should simply be moved here. The obvious potential for confusion is evident in the hatnote, which also mentions potential confusion with Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, this person's father. Note that this article also refers to the exiled prince as "Reza Pahlavi II" within the article. There was apparently some discussion eight years ago about the article title. I just noticed that immediately after the move that was made in 2007 (from "Reza Cyrus Pahlavi" to "Reza Pahlavi" at 14:26, 10 February 2007‎), in the following discussion, several people said that "Reza Pahlavi II" would have been a better choice – but no one responded to those comments. Note that Reza Pahlavi of Iran redirects to Rezā Shāh (the grandfather). —BarrelProof (talk) 01:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 00:13, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Redirects

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Following on from the above move, there are now a lot of redirects that point to the dab page where previously they pointed to this article. Could someone with more knowledge of the topic area please go through this list retarget the ones that obviously refer to the current crown prince here?

Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 17:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Former Crown Prince

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There was a discussion but not enough contribution on it. He is obviously former not current Crown Prince of Iran.Monfie (talk) 06:15, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 8 January 2016

Latest comment: 8 years ago6 comments2 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn after revert to Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran, the name that was the outcome of the prior RM. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:34, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Reza Pahlavi, Former Crown Prince of Iran → Reza Pahlavi (former Crown Prince of Iran) – "Former Crown Prince" is not a title. I suggest this, but am open to counter-proposals. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Comment: If you don't think the current title is appropriate, why did you just move it to that title? (a title which, incidentally, is contrary to the title chosen as the outcome of the recent RM discussion)? Why not just revert your move? —BarrelProof (talk) 11:51, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Looking more closely at the situation, it appears that the nom moved only the Talk page. Someone else moved the article a few days earlier (on 27 December) and didn't move the Talk page along with it. In any case, I think the article title that resulted from the last RM discussion, namely "Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran" is fine. One could argue about whether or not he is still the Crown Prince of Iran, and different people might have different opinions about whether that title still applies to him, but I don't think the answer to that question really matters as far as this article's title is concerned. Article titles on Wikipedia very often identify people with professions they no longer practice, games they no longer play, titles they no longer hold, and lives they no longer live, so I don't really see that as a problem. We generally don't put "former" in the article title when people lose or drop their positions. I have reverted the recent undiscussed moves back to the title that was the outcome of the recent RM, since it was an undiscussed move that was contrary to a consensus discussion outcome. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:00, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Yes it seemed someone had moved the article without moving the talkpage, so I moved that too. I'm fine with him as a "Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince or Iran" (as I said I'm open to counter-proposals, including returning to that article name), no problem, but "former" just doesn't qualify as a title in the same way (I think). HandsomeFella (talk) 20:09, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
    • I just saw that you had moved it back. Yoo should probably close this RM, or someone else will quite possibly moved the article to the proposed name. HandsomeFella (talk) 20:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 29 November 2016

Latest comment: 7 years ago7 comments6 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) Fuortu (talk) 13:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran → Reza Pahlavi – According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#Sovereigns, 'Crown Prince of Iran' should be removed from the page name because he is deposed and "those who are still alive and are most commonly referred to by a non-monarchical title". He is commonly referred to by his name. According to his official website, he does not use the title either. Pahlevun (talk) 12:55, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

  • Support No justification at all for the article to have its current title. --MrStoofer (talk) 14:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article was moved to its current name for reasons spelled out above in previous discussions. 1. As pointed out in the previous discussion of this move, his grandfather's name was "Reza Pahlavi", although Wikipedia's article wrongly names him "Reza Shah Pahlavi", creating a misnomer by inserting title in the middle of his name in a way in which it was not actually used. As founder of the dynasty, that Reza Pahlavi is better known historically than the grandson and it's misleading to mix the two up unnecessarily. 2. The lesser known Reza Pahlavi should be disambiguated using a title exclusively associated with him. 3. Contrary to what is stated above, the guideline crafted specifically to address this issue states in several places (Other royals #4, Sovereigns #6 and Royals with a substantive title #2) that this former crown prince should be titled exactly like Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia, Muhammad Ali, Prince of the Sa'id and Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece: Reza should be treated as Wikipedia treats other princely heirs-apparent born during the monarchy, but whose ancestor's loss of the throne prevented the heir from succeeding to it even though he never renounced. 4. Wikipedia's naming policy specifically states that a person's own preference for how they are called should be included in the article, but is not the criterion for naming the article. FactStraight (talk) 16:17, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Regardless of whether he is known as "Reza Pahlavi" or not, he is not the only person known as "Reza Pahlavi", and his grandfather is much more famous and historically important than he is. He is not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that term. This is a malformed multipage move request, as the proposed destination name is already occupied. Something like Reza Pahlavi II or Reza Pahlavi (exiled Crown Prince of Iran) or Reza Pahlavi (former Crown Prince of Iran) might be acceptable. But I don't see a real problem with the current title. As I said before, article titles on Wikipedia very often identify people with professions they no longer practice, games they no longer play, titles they no longer hold, and lives they no longer live, so I don't really see that as a problem. We generally don't put "former" in the article title when people lose or drop their positions. Article titles generally refer to people as footballers, not former footballers, long after they stopped being a footballer and even after they have died. I note that the quoted guideline is not a prohibition but only about what "most commonly" is used, and that section is about sovereign kings and monarchs while this person was never a sovereign king or monarch. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not the only person by that name. The current form is perfectly good as a disambiguator and has already been determined in the discussion above. Nothing has changed. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Undiscussed removal of content

Latest comment: 7 years ago11 comments3 people in discussion
ExcitingIran has left the building. Drmies (talk) 01:47, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

@ExitingIran: Stop your undiscussed removal of content attributed to reliable sources. To answer your claims of "misquoting of sources", here comes the quotes from the sources:

Pahlavi had C.I.A. funding for a number of years in the eighties, but it ended after the Iran-Contra scandal... Fereydoun Hoveida, a prominent Iranian exile (his brother was the Shah's Prime Minister), told me that Pahlavi visited the emir of Kuwait, the emir of Bahrain, the king of Morocco, and the royal family of Saudi Arabia to ask for funds, and was successful.

— Connie Bruck (6 March 2006). "Exiles: How Iran's Expatriates are Gaming the Nuclear Threat". The New Yorker. p. 48.

{{quote|Pahlavi also cut a backroom deal by garnering political support and funding from the US Congress for private Iranian-American satellite companies in California and US government sponsored external radio programs such as Radio FARDA, geared to reprogramming Iranians under 30 years of age. He was very careful to mention that there should be "one degree of separation"--no royal hand involved so to speak--and that American taxpayer's funds should be given to foundations that in turn can give the money to the satellite broadcasters...|source=Blocked URL removed.

Sources for what you added to the article are biyokulule.com, bhcourier.com and familysecuritymatters.org, which none of them are reliable. Thus I revert the article to the stable version.

Before you remove any well-sourced content and such changes, you must submit your rationale in full detail. Pahlevun (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

In WP:BLP, when your addition of allegations are removed, you are supposed to discuss and gain consensus on talkpage before even trying to add it back, instead of editwarring.

As per Connie Bruck of The New Yorker source, in 2006, Connie Bruck of The New Yorker did wrote that "Los Angeles is home to about 600,000 Iranian expatriats, and is a monarchist stronghold."

As for John Stanton ALLEGATIONS, it's a primary source from his personal website. Not even an op-ed, which still would be primary.--ExitingIran (talk) 22:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

The Mayor of Beverly Hills did present the Key to the City to The Crown Prince of Iran Reza Pahlavi, there's even video of it [5] You are removing verified content.

What I added to the article was in the article for a longtime, before you removed content without consensus. There are other reliable sources for that content, and I just added one

And, you are attempting to revert to your version, not stable version.--ExitingIran (talk) 22:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

@ExitingIran:. Pakistan’s first fortnightly covering lifestyle, fashion, food and culture is not a reliable source for this article. If The Mayor of Beverly Hills did present him the key, provide a WP:RELIABLE source for it. Plus, the statement "Reza Pahlavi's popularity in Los Angeles among Iranian expatriats led him to receive the Key to the City of Beverly Hills" is not supported by the source. It's not even talking about popularity. If you found a reliable source, move it to the "Titles, styles and honours" section, it does not belong here. Pahlevun (talk) 07:15, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
@ExitingIran: About the New Yorker source, you can't cite parts of the source you favor and throw what you dislike into a bin. It's OK to use it a source for the monarchists in Los Angeles. But not in a hijacked section, maybe in another section. The section is about the support by the foreign governments, not about support among the Iranian diaspora or elsewher. There are multiple reliable sources for the CIA support and you have removed all without a proper explanation, as I said before, you have to submit your rationale in full detail. Why have you removed therse reliable sources without discussion?

—Pahlevun (talk) 08:03, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

  • First let me point out that the unreliable primary source of John Stanton that you were editwarring to include also says "That painful past for Americans, Iranians, and Iraqis includes the Ayatollah Khomeini's authoritarian rule." Blocked URL removed.
  • None of the new sources even ALLEGE that Reza Pahlavi receive funding from CIA or any foreign government. The new LA Times source that you provided is from 1986! and it says " the CIA participated in a secret operation to provide a list of Soviet KGB agents and collaborators operating in Iran to the Khomeini regime, the sources said. The regime then executed up to 200 suspects."-The CIA helped Khomeini! It does say CIA provided a miniaturized television transmitter, but does not name the source of this info, so we can't use it. [6]

Khomeini is dead a long time. Iran has been ruled for the last 30 yrs by Khamenei, who has become the de facto decree-issuing dictator, who travels in BMWs[7], and controls $95 billion (as of 2013)[8] and donated only 9647 dollars (313 million tomans) [9]. This dictator is worse than Pahlavi. Anyway, the point here is sources from Khomeini's time does not hold water. Just like using sources from Nader Shah's time to make allegations for present time seem illogical.--ExitingIran (talk) 04:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

@ExitingIran: I ignore your off-topic discussion, because the talk page is for discussing how to improve the article, not vent your feelings about it. Anyway, I saw no rationale in what you wrote about what I asked. Bob Woodward's investigative work published in the The Washington Post in 1986 is considered a reliable source (piece written by an acclaimed journalist and published by a respected newspaper) and its publication date does not make it unreliable. Plus, it is attributed in-text properly, which makes the sentence a statement of fact. If you are a newbie to Wikipedia, you better first read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources to know more about reliable sources. If you have any question about its reliability, feel free to ask WP:RSN. If you find the source informative about the CIA's operation to handle the names of KGB agents to Iran's regime, I would be happy if you do add it to the relevant article.

I suppose avoiding to make comment on the Tower Commission report (an official report by the U.S. authorities) and the book published by University of California Press (a scholarly peer reviewed reliable tertiary source, or at least secondary source) means that you have not found anything to question them. Pahlevun (talk) 12:31, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Again you are missing the point, the source in the LA Times is anonymous, which makes it unreliable. Also it says nothing about CIA FUNDING Reza Pahlavi even in 1986. It says CIA worked with Khomeini to help Khomeini oppress/kill communists (I doubt the validity of this also). None of the sources you provided say Reza Pahlavi gets funding from foreign governments.--ExitingIran (talk) 03:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
@ExitingIran: It doesn not change a thing and that's okay with Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. And remember, it is attributed in-text to the source. The section is about the CIA support (not just financial support, but also logistical, political, technical, etc.) and hacking a TV transmition is some kind of support. Two of the sources directly point to the funding:

Pahlavi had C.I.A. funding for a number of years in the eighties, but it ended after the Iran-Contra scandal... Fereydoun Hoveida, a prominent Iranian exile (his brother was the Shah's Prime Minister), told me that Pahlavi visited the emir of Kuwait, the emir of Bahrain, the king of Morocco, and the royal family of Saudi Arabia to ask for funds, and was successful.

— Connie Bruck (6 March 2006). "Exiles: How Iran's Expatriates are Gaming the Nuclear Threat". The New Yorker. p. 48.

Not only was it not surprising that Reza Pahlavi ended up in the Northern Virginia suburbs, it would be hard to imagine him going anywhere else. Ex-CIA agents in McLean began offering Shah Reza Pahlavi estates and farms as retreats in Northern Virginia as early as 1979, swearing they could spirit him past immigration officials at Dulles Airport. A major reason the younger Pahlavi moved to Great Falls was political. Building his house some ten minutes away from Langley, he was, at the time, according to his advisor and other observers, receiving a monthly CIA stipend. After a meeting with Bill Casey in Rabat, they began what Pahlavi called "mutual cooperation in intelligence... for mutual benefits." Although he denied he took agency money, his financial advisor once claimed that Pahlavi's stipend rose at times to $150,000 a month. A large picture of him hung on the wall in Langley's Iran division at this time, accompanied by the monkier "The Hope of Democracy of Iran". This "Iran" in Iran-Contra at times created complexities for the arms-selling project. In September 1986, a CIA technical strike blocked TV signals on national Iranian TV to broadcast an eleven-minute speech by Reza Cyrus, then resident in Northern Virginia, into Iran.

— Friedman, Andrew (2013). "Iran-Contra As Built Space". Covert Capital: Landscapes of Denial and the Making of U.S. Empire in the Suburbs of Northern Virginia. American Crossroads. Vol. 7. University of California Press. p. 274. ISBN 9780520274648. </ref>

—Pahlevun (talk) 06:37, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

  • In LA Times, the original/primary source is anonymous, it is not reliable per WP:RS. However I added this info regardless, using the Andrew Friedman source.
  • What EX-CIA agents did for him, like finding him a good home to buy, has nothing to do with CIA funding. And "as early as 1979" he was not in exile then, he was son of Iran's then-current ruler, at that time.
  • Fereydoun Hoveida, an Iranian exile, is not a reliable source.
  • "Although he denied he took agency money, his financial advisor once claimed"---THIS is unproven allegation, and cannot be included per WP:BLP

I added to article:

"In September 1986, a CIA technical strike reportedly blocked TV signals on national Iranian TV to broadcast an eleven-minute speech by Reza Cyrus, then resident in Northern Virginia, into Iran" --ExitingIran (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Requested move 7 July 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago13 comments9 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 17:09, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince of Iran → Reza Pahlavi II – I checked the previous moving discussions and I still think there article needs to move. Currently, a factually wrong disambiguator is used for the article name. In terms of usage by the reliable sources, he’s mostly referred to as "Reza Pahlavi" which proves he's "most commonly referred to by a non-monarchical title" and per WP:SOVEREIGN he's an exception to the “Former or deposed monarchs” provision (as Pahlevun said). To show this, I'd like to refer to the following reliable sources:

That said, I found Reza pahlavi II a suitable destination choice for the article. This suggestion is not only concise, precise and consistent, the provisions required by the WP:CRITERIA, but also in accordance with the title adopted by many other wiki languages including his native Fa wiki. See some of the reliable sources using this suggested title:

  • Oppose 1. The article was moved to its current name for reasons spelled out above in previous discussions and nothing has changed. 2. If it is true, as alleged, that "in terms of usage by the reliable sources, he’s mostly referred to as 'Reza Pahlavi', that is his father's name as last ruler and his grandfather's name, the latter having been both ruler of the nation and founder of the dynasty. Both having been more historically significant than the subject of this article, Reza Pahlavi is a disambiguation page, so an alternative to COMMONNAME must be found. 3. The least known Reza Pahlavi should be disambiguated using a term exclusively associated with him, yet per NCRAN's Sovereigns #6 section, we do not give regnal numbers to individuals who never reigned, whereas "Reza Pahlavi II" would incorrectly do just that, making him look as if he is the monarch who succeeded the original Reza Pahlavi as Shah of Iran. 4. This man is notable for and is best known as the heir of the last Shah of Iran to reign as such, which is what the current article name precisely communicates. 5. Contrary to what is stated above, the guideline crafted specifically to address this issue states in several places (Other royals #4 and Royals with a substantive title #2) that this former crown prince should be titled exactly like Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia, Muhammad Ali, Prince of the Sa'id and Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece: Reza should be treated as Wikipedia treats other princely heirs-apparent born during the monarchy, but whose ancestor's loss of the throne prevented the heir from succeeding to it, even though he never renounced. 6. Wikipedia's naming policy specifically states that a person's own preference for how they are called should be mentioned in the article, but is not the criterion for naming that article. 7. What he is called in other languages is not relevant to what he is called in English Wikipedia, which relies exclusively on English language sources. If those sources don't yield a name that can be used (because already in use), the alternative must also be based exclusively on English language practices. FactStraight (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
1) That does not prohibit us from making new discussions with new sources presented. 2) I've provided many sources calling him (not his father or granfather) Reza Pahlavi. Actually you've confused some similar terms. His father is named Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and his grand father is often called Reza Shah (see the first line of his article). 3) The so-called Sovereigns "apply to European monarchs", so forget about it. However, see #6:..."...instead call them what independent secondary sources in English call them." 4) Again, as I showed, there are many reliable and credible sources, among the some encyclopedic works, calling him Reza Pahlavi or Reza Pahlavi II. Those sources contradict what you said. 5) just search for "non-monarchical title" in Wikipedia:NCRAN's 'Former or deposed monarchs'. 6) Yes, and I mentioned his official website calling him simply Reza Pahlavi to let you know how his non-monarchical title is used even by himself. 7) Yes, and I provided those English reliable sources on the grounds that English Wikipedia "relies exclusively on English language sources". It's interesting you ignored those sources! Regards. --Mhhossein talk 01:51, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
You'd better remember that polling is not a substitute for discussion. As it's seen, FactStraight failed to say why Sovereigns #7 did not apply here. You're expected to say your own words. FYI, per Sovereigns #7, those who are "most commonly referred to by a non-monarchical title" should be called based on the reliable sources. The above source list clearly proves it. --Mhhossein talk 14:02, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "You'd better remember (...)"
What's that supposed to mean? - LouisAragon (talk) 16:42, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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