Talk:Prostitution in Russia
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edit- Russia and Ukraine have a system of internal passport controls...
The article on propiska states that the system has been abolished in Ukraine. Can someone confirm the details? —Michael Z. 2005-09-17 15:28 Z
Delete or rewrite
editThis article, I think, should be deleted.
- Agreed. But the sentiment can be expressed with fewer commas. The article is such a fail as can't be described.
First of all, the word "tochka" is not limited to the described sphere of usage. In fact, I have never heard of prostitutes' gathering to be called "tochka", though it is highly probable. Here in Russia, we use this word in a whole lot of expressions, for example:
- "торговая точка/torgovaya tochka", "trading point" - any place where trade can take place, like a shop, a street outlet etc.
- "огневая точка/ognevaya tochka", "firing point" - a military term
- "горячая точка/goryachaya tochka", "hot point" - a place where a war is waged, mostly used for Chechnya.
So, the sentence Tochka ... is the word for an outdoor market for prostitutes is not correct, while it is true that Tochka is the word for 'point' in Russian (точка).
Then. Tochkas are responsible for most of the internal sex trafficking - we cannot say who is responsible for sex trafficking, but that would be definitely not the place, like we cannot say that Waterloo was responsible for the battle.
where prostitutes tend to be intravenous drug users who work on their own - citation needed. As well as for the whole second paragraph.
They are typically paid half or less of the weekly wage that they had earned at the farm. - quite doubtful. Why would they come to Moscow then? Let's count. A worker at the farm earns, say, 2000..3000 rubles a month, that would be $70..100. While it is very hard to live with this money in a village, in Moscow it is definitely almost impossible to live with "half or less" of this money.
Generally such prostitutes are prevented from seeking legitimate work in Moscow and other cities because they are not registered in the city. - quite true. Moreover, I watched a TV program where they say their passports are often taken away.
along Tverskaya, Moscow's main avenue. - Tverskaya links to a metro station, but Tverskaya avenue is really famous for its literally flocks of prostitutes.
criminal gangs that bribe local police departments in order to remain in business. - citation needed, as well as for the most part of the last paragraph.
Russians traditionally work without pay in the Spring to commemorate Lenin's birthday. - I doubt whether it is to commemorate Lenin's birthday. It is not one day, first of all, but several Saturdays (or any other days) in March, April, and May, and now we do this not for Lenin but just to keep our cities clean. -- Anthony Ivanoff 05:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
May I ask is the word becoming linked to a gathering of prostitutes?
- I would be there to pick the fresh sprout.
- "Точка" - club in Moscow! without slut83.167.98.19 (talk) 08:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
- I would be there to pick the fresh sprout.
References
editOK, I provided first reference and can work more on this subject if no one objects.Biophys 03:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
i think this article needs more sources and links proving it
edityou cant rely for a few cases that there is a whole market, sentences like almost all of dubais prostitutes are russian are false and also very offensive. Russians have simply the problem that they stand for all of eastern europe, so if a polish, ukrainian women etc is in charge she might just be seen as being a russian or they pretend they are russian as most people dont know the rest of eastern europe.--Shokioto22 (talk) 16:23, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Sterliziation is a Medical Reality suggested for ALbinism (Girl babies, IQels etc.)
editIndian or African or Asian ARMY men for the long term may not too bear these babies to the end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by hairy (talk) 15:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Vietnamese prostitutes in Russia
edithttp://www.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/trafficking-04222013184538.html
http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/2-vietnamese-women-rescued-from-sex-slavery-in-russia-3111.html
http://www.vancouverdesi.com/news/two-vietnamese-women-rescued-from-moscow-brothel/524115/
http://www.ecoi.net/local_link/247178/357362_en.html
http://www.refworld.org/docid/5190dca73d.html
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/trafficking-04042013190554.html
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/4j22/freethehumantraffickingvictimsinrussia/updates/19613
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/luke-daleharris/vietnam-human-trafficking_b_2424595.html
http://allianceantitrafic.org/news/?p=416
http://www.bpsos.org/documents/VietnamCountryReportMay282008.pdf
http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Vietnam.htm
https://johnib.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/vietnamese-women-rescued-from-russian-sex-slavery/
Rajmaan (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
- Good information, it can be added anytime. OccultZone (Talk) 18:51, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
original research and synthesis violation
editUser:Crossswords, ip 95.114.97.96 is using sources to claim that An increasing number of women from different countries, including China and Vietnam work as prostitutes in Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Prostitution_in_Russia&diff=640121872&oldid=635994589
If we look at the sources in question, they both refer to specific cases.
The third is a home made youtube video made by the uploader, and one of the items it shows is the second source I mentioned above which talks about the brothel busted in 2011 for sending the secret messages via code in the newspaper. A home made youtube video is also not a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources to see what reliable sources are.
Neither of them say anything about An increasing number of women from different countries going to Russia as prostitutes. They refer to two specific cases and say nothing about how widespread this is or how many women of any nationality are going to Russia to prostitute.
Claiming that An increasing number of women from different countries, including China and Vietnam work as prostitutes in Russia using those two sources, is a violation of Wikipedia:No_original_research#Synthesis_of_published_material, as the user combined the two sources together and synthesized them to support a claim which neither of them made.
My edit fixed that and removed the original research, summarizing the actual content of the sources.-
3 prostitutes from China were arrested in Moscow on January of 2009.[11 In 2011, a brothel in Moscow with Chinese and Vietnamese prostitutes which served only Chinese citizens as clients was uncovered, it advertised to its Chinese clients via coded messages in a Chinese language newspaper but was uncovered by the police.[12][13]]
and then User:Crosswords reverted my edits for no reason at all.
Note that earlier, an ip who read the sources also fixed the content in the article, and was also reverted by User:Crosswords.
Rajmaan (talk) 04:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- i edited the sources because its blatantly odd that Chinese prostitutes in russia are supposed to serf only chinese men. The translation of the article say so but do you also translated the video or what ever there was linked as well and the other article of the women who were busted? Second you seem to bring very nationalistic talk here, seeing how you post a wall of links about vietnamese prostitutes like you want to push some pro chinese agenda here and bash other ethnicity's not in favor of you.--Crossswords (talk) 18:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- Home made youtube videos are not a reliable source, see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources.
- As for nationalistic talk, you are the one talking about how Russians are richer and are getting annoyed about a reference which talks about foreign prostitutes in Russia serving foreigners as if you find it offensive that they aren't advertising to Russians.
- If you actually want to talk about the content, both your version and ip 212.187.112.78's version were wrong, because I just explained the entire issue on Wikipedia:No_original_research#Synthesis_of_published_material but you apparently didn't read it at all. I explained that editors are not allowed to synthesize sources together and draw their own conclusion.
- The original content made a claim that was found nowhere in the sources- An increasing number of women from different countries, including China, are working as prostitutes in Russia. Not what the sources said. The two sources each talked about two very specific, separate incidents where the police uncovered a secret brothel in 2011 which only served Chinese citizens and in 2009 arrested 3 Chinese citizens for prostitution.
- Both your edit, the ip's edit and the previous version were all violation WP:SYNTHESIS as I just explained above. Read the policy on synthesis and look at the edits again- when editing wikipedia, you can only summarize what a source says. You can't do your own original research and synthesize different sources together to make claims that aren't in the sources.
- My edit summarized the content of both sources and made no original research or synthesis. The first source talked about an incident where 3 Chinese citizens were arrested for prostitution in Moscow in 2009. That is what the source says, it doesn't say anything about what clients they serve so that is left out. The second source talks about the brothel which only served Chinese citizens in 2011.
3 prostitutes from China were arrested in Moscow on January of 2009.[11] In 2011, a brothel in Moscow with Chinese and Vietnamese prostitutes which served only Chinese citizens as clients was uncovered, it advertised to its Chinese clients via coded messages in a Chinese language newspaper but was uncovered by the police.[12]
Crossroads version (it violates synthesis as I explained above. It does not summarize the content of the two sources but instead makes a claim not found in either source, about An increasing number of women from different countries
An increasing number of women from different countries, including China, are also working as prostitutes in Russia now.[10][11]
212.187.112.78 (This violates synthesis for the same reason above and because only one of the sources talked about the brothel which only served Chinese citizens, the other source about 3 women arrested in 2009 said nothing about their clients)
An increasing number of women from different countries, including China, in Russia, but according to the sources the Chinese prostitutes were only soliciting from their Chinese compatriots, and they even had to use a Chinese guy to solicit the women, again according to the sources already provided.[10][11]
Rajmaan (talk) 05:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
The Majority of Chinese Prostitutes in Russia serive the local men and not Chinese business men and diplomats and this specific case is only an exception.--88.66.132.241 (talk) 15:39, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Chinese (and Vietnamese) Prostitutes?
editI dont think that absolutly all chinese and vietnamese women who work as prostitutes in Russia only surve chinese men.--95.113.62.128 (talk) 18:28, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
- Thats not what the paragraph says. It talks about a specific incident, about one brothel that was uncovered by the police in Moscow in 2011 that only served Chinese clients. The other incident about 3 prostitutes being arrested in 2009 didn't say what clients they served at all. You can't use these references which only talk about specific incidents to make broad claims about the citizens of an entire country working as prostitutes.Rajmaan (talk) 04:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Is this really relevant to mention this one brothel?--95.114.77.194 (talk) 16:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
External links modified
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Section1 overview, Paragraph 3, needs to go.
editIt makes no sense in the flow of the article.L3X1 (talk) 21:48, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Problems with trafficking section
editI've reverted this content yet again as it is not supported by the source (i.e., the source does not describe numbers, nor does it imply anything about 'large numbers'). In fact, the number of sources being used to illustrate single instances is WP:UNDUE for the section, as appears to have been discussed before according to the threads above. If anything, stringing together multiple references to information involving individual cases trivialises the article as it illustrates nothing other than a few cases. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:54, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Evgeny Chuplinsky
editAlleged multiple prostitute murderer Evgeny Chuplinsky (dubbed Russia’s Jack the Ripper).
He is not notable for anything else, so should he be included in this article, or potentially a separate article. WP:BIO1E and WP:CRIME would suggest not, yet other mass-murderers do have a page: Yorkshire Ripper, Steve Wright (serial killer) etc
There is of course a difference in that he has not been convicted.
Any views anybody? John B123 (talk) 15:53, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
- Not till he's convicted. L3X1 (distænt write) 04:41, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
- Whether he's convicted or not, I'd say that it's WP:OFFTOPIC, and should be considered WP:OSE. Per WP:TITLE, this is a broad scope article on prostitution in Russia, not part of a history of serial killers (regardless of whether or not prostitutes were targeted). In a nutshell, it's WP:UNDUE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:55, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
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