Talk:Pigmented villonodular synovitis

July

You should certainly add the article. You may want to categorize it with other joint conditions. - Cyborg Ninja 10:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to do more work on it then add it to mainspace. DarthGriz98 04:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

worst case

Worst case is not joint replacement. It is amputation. I know that first hand. PVNS survivor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:77E2:C6F0:E950:8ECA:A225:914C (talk) 03:40, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Edit Request

NOTE: I am proposing this edit for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

I am submitting this edit request to bring your attention to the fact that the World Health Organization reclassified pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS) and giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath (GCT-TS) to “tenosynovial giant cell tumor” or “TGCT” in 2013 in its 4th edition of WHO Classification of Tumours of Soft Tissue and Bone (paid subscription required) to encompass a family of lesions in the soft tissue surrounding large & small joints, which all share a common pathogenesis.

As you know, this is a rare disease with very limited online resources, and the scientific and medical community are continually learning more about the condition. There are several resources containing information about TGCT, and a few are provided below, which should not be considered all-inclusive. Publications about TGCT have been posted by:

• National Institutes of Health (The Patient Perspective on the Impact of Tenosynovial Giant Cell Tumors on Daily Living: Crowdsourcing Study on Physical Function and Quality of Life ; Localized and diffuse forms of tenosynovial giant cell tumor (formerly giant cell tumor of the tendon sheath and pigmented villonodular synovitis) .

• Clinicaltrials.gov, where you can see that TGCT trials include both PVNS trials and giant cell tumor of the tendon sheath trials .

We gather it is your objective to ensure the community has as much accurate and up-to-date information possible. Toward that end, we’re requesting that the existing PVNS page be updated to include “TGCT” as an overarching name for the condition as adopted by the World Health Organization and the National Organization for Rare Disorders.

Thank you for your consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 22:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

References

Reply 01-NOV-2018

  Clarification requested  

1. If your request is to change the article's title, those requests should be submitted using {{requested move}} specifically as a controversial move request process requiring discussion amongst the wider community. More information may be found at requested moves.
2. If your request is to change the instance of the word in certain areas of the article, please propose verbatim the changes here on the talk page.

If choice number two above is your intention, kindly change the {{request edit}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no
Regards,  Spintendo  07:53, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Clarification on Edit Request

NOTE: I am proposing this edit for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

@Spintendo: As a follow up to your request for clarification, our request is submitted with the intention of adding a passage to the existing first sentence of this page which introduces diffuse-type tenosynovial giant cell tumor as an alternate name for PVNS. Requested verbatim addition (bolded) and sourcing follow:

• Pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS), also known as diffuse-type tenosynovial giant cell tumor or TGCTis a joint disease characterized by inflammation and overgrowth of the joint lining.

Thank you for your consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 16:05, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

References

Reply 06-DEC-2018

  Edit request declined  

• In technical articles that use uncommon terms, a higher-than-usual link density in the lead section may be necessary. But the function of links is to clarify, not emphasize. Guidance suggests in those cases that the wording should provide an informal explanation in the lead first, thereby avoiding the use of too many technical terms until later in the article.
• See also Wikipedia:Make technical articles understandable and point 7 of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not § Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal

Regards,  Spintendo  02:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

References

Further Clarification Requested re: Reply 06-DEC-2018

NOTE: I am seeking clarification for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

@Spintendo: Thanks for your response. To clarify, are you/the guideline suggesting that introducing the alternate term for the condition may be better suited later in the article? If so, we're happy to submit an alternate recommendation for the edit to abide by that guideline. Please let me know your thoughts. Jon Gray (talk) 22:18, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Question Regarding Response to Edit Request Feedback

NOTE: I am re-flagging the previous request for additional clarification for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

Following up on the previous communication, I am re-flagging our request for additional clarification (submitted 12/7/2018) to the declined edit request in the hopes that @Spintendo: or another COI editor can provide clarity on whether or not introducing the alternate term for the condition may be better suited later in the article (perhaps the Classification section) as to not violate MOS:LEADLINK. If so, I can submit a revised edit request with verbatim language and sourcing for consideration.

Thank you. Jon Gray (talk) 00:04, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

I'll repeat what I said in my earlier reply: "Guidance suggests in those cases that the wording should provide an informal explanation in the lead first, thereby avoiding the use of too many technical terms until later in the article." This explanation should include the reason why PVS is also known as diffuse-type tenosynovial giant cell tumor or TGCT. Currently, your proposal states that the two terms are the same, but does not specify how, in what way, and according to whom they are considered the same. It calls these two conditions the same and then only provides as a source for calling them the same, another Wikipedia page with a slightly different name. There needs to be more evidence provided here rather than just a wikilink to what you claim is the same condition. Please resubmit this reasoning which carries a simplified, non-Wiki-Linked wording appropriate for the lead section and containing references for it at your earliest convenience. Thank you!

Regards,  Spintendo  00:14, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Notes

Pinging @Rod57: for their input on this, as they are the editor who created the redirect for TGCT that the COI editor is attempting to place in this article. Are you able to confirm that these conditions, TGCT and PVS, are the same? Please advise if possible, thanks!  Spintendo  00:53, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@Spintendo: I cannot confirm they are identical, (The diagnostic criteria for the older PVS may be slightly different), but we should be able to find a 'reliable source' introducing TGCT and relating it to the older term PVS. The Fletcher/WHO ref that Jon Gray provides should be enough unless someone objects ? The Noailles ref title also implies the old term giant cell tumor of the tendon sheath is now included in TGCT. - Rod57 (talk) 13:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

NOTE: I am proposing this edit for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

Thank you both for your responses!

@Spintendo:, as @Rod57: mentioned, I included references from third-parties (World Health Organization and National Institutes of Health ; to validate the claim that tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT) was introduced as an alternate name for PVNS. Both were referenced in the original request (dated 10/31/18, which required follow-up clarification/verbatim recommendations from me) and the WHO reference was included as the primary reference in our follow up request (dated 12/6/18). (The cross-linked Wiki page was not intended to serve as a source to add the alternate title for the condition to the article itself, but was related to the secondary request for page cross-linking. Apologies for any confusion on that.)

However, I would like to re-submit our request to include TGCT as an alternate name for PVNS in the article. Please see below for an updated edit request, which hopefully will avoid any issues with MOS:LEADLINK. The source for this requested addition is the aforementioned World Health Organization reference which identifies tenosynovial giant cell tumor (diffuse type) as a synonym for PVNS (see quote in reference code below confirming the conditions as synonyms).

Classification

Our request is submitted with the intention of adding a sentence to the end of the “Classification” section to introduce diffuse-type tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT) as an alternate name for PVNS. The requested verbatim addition and sourcing (from World Health Organization, which validates the synonyms – see quote in reference) follow:

• PVNS is also known as diffuse-type tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT)..

Thanks again for your time and consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 23:19, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Reply 28-JAN-2019

  Please move to WP:MERGEREQ  

• Your request is to associate the condition specified in one Wikipedia article with another condition specified in another Wikipedia article with the qualification that these two conditions are identical.
• The desired outcome should be not having two separate articles describe the same condition.
• To remedy this, the best course of action would be to merge the two articles into one, a process which requires input from the wider community in order to be granted. If you concur, please make your request at selective merge requests.

Please feel free to contact Wikipedia:WikiProject Merge if you require additional assistance with your request.
Regards,  Spintendo  00:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Notes

Merger Discussion

NOTE: I am proposing this discussion for FleishmanHillard on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo. I am a paid editor and am aware of the COI guidelines.

At the recommendation of a conflict of interest editor who I’d previously contacted about adding Tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT) as a synonym for diffuse-type pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS), I am opening this merger discussion to ask the community for guidance on how to go about updating the language describing tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT) on Wikipedia to conform with new disease definitions announced by the World Health Organization.

Currently, there is not a stand-alone TGCT page. It instead redirects to the giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath (GCT-TS) page, which does not include TGCT terminology. This would suggest TGCT is solely a synonym for GCT-TS, which is incorrect. According to literature, TGCT is also closely related (and some say interchangeable) with pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS).

We’ve listed a several sources (and related quotes) below for reference with the discussion. As seen within these quotes, the term “tenosynovial giant cell tumor” or “TGCT” is used by leading health organizations and in connection with mentions of both pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS) and giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath (GCT-TS):

• From the World Health Organization: Tenosynovial giant cell tumour, localized type:
  • “The term “giant cell tumour of tendon sheath” encompasses a family of lesions most often arising from the synovium of joints, bursae and tendon sheaths. These tumours are usually divided according to their site (intra- or extra-articular) and growth pattern (localized or diffuse) into two main subtypes, which differ in their clinical features and biological behaviour, but appear to share a common pathogenesis. This family of lesions includes the localized giant cell tumour of tendon sheath/tenosynovial giant cell tumour, and the more diffuse and destructive variant called diffuse-type giant cell tumour/pigmented villonodular synovitis.”
    • “Tenosynovial giant cell tumour, diffuse type. Synonyms: Diffuse-type giant cell tumour; pigmented villonodular synovitis; pigmented villonodular tenosynovitis.”
• From Lucas in Archives of Pathology & Laboratory Medicine:
  • “Tenosynovial giant cell tumors are a group of generally benign intra-articular and soft tissue tumors with common histologic features. They can be roughly divided into localized and diffuse types. Localized types include giant cell tumors of tendon sheath and localized pigmented villonodular synovitis, whereas diffuse types encompass conventional pigmented villonodular synovitis and diffuse-type giant cell tumor. Localized tumors are generally indolent, whereas diffuse tumors are locally aggressive.”
• From Rateb et al. in International Journal of Surgical Case Reports:
  • “Tenosynovial giant cell tumors (TGCTs), also known as pigmented villonodular synovitis, are benign soft tissue tumors that arise from the synovium of the joints, bursae and tendon sheath. These tumors are classified into two forms: localized and diffuse (Fig. 1). Diffuse-type giant cell tumor is an extra-articular form of pigmented villonodular synovitis.”
• From Clinicaltrials.gov:
  • TGCT trials include both PVNS trials and giant cell tumor of the tendon sheath trials.

Though I understand that PVNS and GCT-TS are not synonyms, (and thus may not be candidates for a direct merge together), the two conditions are closely connected to TGCT. Because the term “tenosynovial giant cell tumor” or “TGCT” is used by medical professionals and patients, we believe it’s important the condition be accurately defined on Wikipedia. By initiating this discussion, our hope is to gain consensus among the community for how to go about doing so.

Thank you for your consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 01:25, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

References

• Comment NOTE: I know nothing about the subject and am an inexperienced editor

Have I understood this correctly that TGCT is a group of cancers primarily consisting of PVNS and GCT-TS. Both GCT-TS and PVNS are most commonly referred to as TGCT in patient–doctor conversations and you believe that for these reasons both PVNS and GCT-TS should be discussed on the same page, namely TGCT. If that is the case I would support this proposal trusting your judgement that this would be better for patients looking to read more about TGCT. It seems like proposed mergers sadly are quite little discussion so I would suggest that if you don't want to perform the merge due to not enough discussion after one week I would suggest moving the discussion to the much more active requested moves. (Merger proposal would be more suitable though if it was more active.)Trialpears (talk) 13:01, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps the best way forward might be to merge both Giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath and Pigmented villonodular synovitis to the broadest title, Tenosynovial giant cell tumor. There, both the articular (PVNS) and extra-articular (GCT-TS) forms can be discussed, with their local and diffuse forms. This might be best because of the overlapping use of nomenclature amongst these closely related tumors. Klbrain (talk) 13:21, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

updated merge proposal: Tenosynovial giant cell tumor

Hi all, posting here on behalf of Daiichi Sankyo, which is a client of my employer, Porter Novelli.

Previously, there has been some initial discussion about merging Pigmented villonodular synovitis (PVNS) and Giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath (GCT-TS) into the same article. This is because the medical consensus is that PVNS and GCT-TS are variations of the same condition: Tenosynovial giant cell tumor (TGCT). I would now like to propose that both of these articles be merged into a new tenosynovial giant cell tumor article, which I have drafted here. This new article draft includes content from both the PVNS and GCT-TS articles (specific diffs are linked on the draft’s talk page), as well as additional research, including context on the relationship between PVNS and GCT-TS (also called localized TGCT and diffuse TGCT, respectively) and the ways in which they differ. I’ve done my best to align the draft with WP:MOSMED and provide rigorous, high-quality medical sources throughout.

@Klbrain, Trialpears, Spintendo, and Rod57: Pinging you since you've been involved in these discussions before.

Due to my conflict of interest, I will not be editing any mainspace articles related to these topics directly. I appreciate any help or feedback regarding this article merge. Thank you! Mary Gaulke (talk) 20:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

@MaryGaulke: that's a great draft of the combined article, with extended content too. Thank you also for your COI declaration; my view is that the COI hasn't significantly affected the objectivity of the draft. Your current proposal is also consistent with my previous proposal, and given that that there are no objections to this, I think that it would be reasonable to do this. As Tenosynovial giant cell tumor already exists I'm somewhat torn between suggesting a technical move (from draft space) and a three-way merge. I'll give the latter a go, but don't mind if an administrator would prefer the former (although the technical move would not formally attribute earlier work on the Giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath and Pigmented villonodular synovitis articles). Klbrain (talk) 07:28, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 07:37, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help! Mary Gaulke (talk) 13:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)