Talk:Paul Stastny

Stastny's citizenship

Is there any documentation that he's a dual U.S./Canadian citizen? Also, is he eligible and does he have Slovak citizenship? --Nlu (talk) 00:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, he played for Team USA -- US citizenship is required for that (and he grew up in Missouri as well). And of course, Canada grants citizenship via birth. I have no clue about Slovak citizenship though. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 01:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

He plays for Team USA I believe. Jmlk17 03:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Yup plays for Team USA, and the standard for hockey players is to go by the country they have represented internationally. In cases where they haven't then its a bit harder to do as you have to go by where they were born unless you can source another country. -Djsasso (talk) 04:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

According to this (found through the article on Slovak nationality law), he should be considered a Slovak. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:17, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Not necessarily; just opens up another avenue of citizenship. Jmlk17 14:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

He definitely is a citizen of the Slovak Republic. This fact probably cannot be verifiable and verified, only by himself. 212.197.3.12 (talk) 13:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Recently Lvivske has removed the "Canadian" from "Canadian-American" in the first sentence. Can anyone, perhaps even you, Lvivske, provide a rationale or some http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Paul_Stastny&action=edit&section=1sort of template or WP:BIO guideline for this edit? Wayne Gretzky and, outside of hockey, Michael J. Fox has Canadian-American in the lead paragraphs of their articles - and considering Stastny, like Gretzky and Fox was born in Canadan and obtained his American citizenship afterward to become a dual citizen, why is Canadian being removed? --Yankees76 ^Talk 17:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Gretzky should be just Canadian. This has been gone over time and time again by the wiki project. In Stastny's case...how is his secondary citizenship relevant to his bio? Bear in mind that his biography and inclusion on wikipedia is solely because he is a hockey player. He grew up and learned to play in the USA, he continues to play in the USA, and he plays internationally for the USA. Because he was born in Quebec and happens to have another passport laying around shouldn't affect his status as an American ice hockey player. If we crafted ledes based on citizenship then you'd have guys like Antropov being "Kazakhstani-Russian-Canadian-" and all sorts of anomalies popping up with Europeans who apply when they make it to the NHL just for personal use--Львівське (talk) 01:43, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, what Wikipedia editing guideline are you quoting? I've gone through many of the bios linked from Canadian American, an article that covers dual Canadian/American citizenship, and from Gretzky to Pamela Anderson to Mark Howe, hockey players or not - there are numerous articles where the format you're imposing on this article is not followed. Generally if this was a formal guideline or policy that is actually being enforced, there would not be so many obvious articles that don't follow it. One discussion from April 2010 amongst 3 editors shouldn't make for a consensus that ignores numerous other instances where Canadian American is used, especially considering the rationale for not using it is based on the flawed argument/opinion that Stastny didn't grow up in Canada - when he lived in Quebec until he was 5 and his parents were Canadian citizens at the time of his birth. Hopefully you can provide a better explanation - or a relevant policy that I might have missed. --Yankees76 ^Talk 01:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

His partial Canadian citizenship is irrelevant to his biography. It also opens up a huge can-o-worms with hockey bios because of the aforementioned abundance of overlap. If you have a problem, why not take it up on the WP?--Львівське (talk) 02:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Can of worms aside, other dual citizenships don't seem to be notable enough to have Wikipedia articles on them. If Canadian American is notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, there should be no reason why those who carry this notable dual citizenship should not be described as such in their biographies. Both of the Stastny brothers, Yan and Paul, are still Canadian citizens, and if we're describing people in leads based on their citizenship, it's erroneous to call either Stastny simply an American - regardless of whether they'd have a bio as non-hockey players - it's not encyclopedic to omit something that is this obvious and easy to verify.

Perhaps the best solution for all sports related articles - hockey in particular - is to simply remove what nationality they are in the lead as bringing nationality into article always seems to open the door for agenda pushers. I mean, we have an American only Paul and Yan Stastny (both born and raised in Quebec until 1990), yet Wayne Gretzky (born and raised in Canada, played for Canada, married an American - in Canada, kids are American), Brett Hull (born and raised in Canada, played for USA), Bryan Trottier (born in Canada, played for Canada), and Mark Howe (born in the USA, played for USA - only connection to Canada is his father) are listed as Canadian-American? How does that make sense? And that doesn't even touch baseball where Alex Rodriguez (born in the USA) is listed as an American despite playing for internationally for the Dominican Republic. So once again, what editing guideline are you quoting or where is the Wikipedia wide consensus on this? --Yankees76 ^Talk 15:04, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

From Canadian American, "people with strong ties to Canada, such as those who have lived a significant portion of their lives in, or were educated in, Canada" none of this statement applies to Stastny. I don't understand how you're confusing nationality and citizenship here, as he's an American national and also has American citizenship. Canadian is his secondary citizenship, and its not "omitted" but mentioned in the article itself. Your contention seems to be that the lede should include all forms of citizenship a person has right in the first sentence, even if it would be confusing or wrong. In this case, calling Paul a "Canadian American ice hockey player" is flat out wrong since the 'Canadian' part does not line up with the rest of the sentence. Yes, you cited some other examples which should be fixed, and Gretzky should be just Canadian. Hull? He actually has ties to both countries. Use some logic and discretion. --Львівське (talk) 23:41, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

No, my contention was that dual citizenship gives the individual the nationality of both countries, not one or the other at the whim of Wikipedia. Nationality and citizenship are the same thing. However, since we've reached this point - per the Manual of Style for biographies:

WP:OPENPARA:

1. Context (location, nationality, or ethnicity);
   1. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national (according to each nationality law of the countries), or was a citizen when the person became notable. Wasn't Stastny already dual citizen when he became notable? Therefore making him a "Canadian-American"? He wasn't American only or Canadian only - when he became notable - he was a dual citizen..

Then right below that, is this, with a seemingly last second sentence tacked on which has nothing to do with ethnicity or sexuality and which conflicts with the above:

1. 1. Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.

So based on both WP:OPENPARA criteria Gretzky is Canadian only. Mark Howe is American only. Hull is Canadian-American (my error), and Bryan Trottier is Canadian only - not Canadian-American. And for now, I guess Paul Stastny is American only? Depends on what point you follow. Baffling. Wikipedia continues to amaze me in the stupidity of it's style guides.... --Yankees76 ^Talk 01:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Well I'm all for the OPENPARA interpretation for the lede...so...--Львівське (talk) 01:42, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Depends on the interpretation style guide, I guess. If you go by point number one, unlike Gretzky, Stastny was already dual citizen when he became notable - therefore he's Canadian-American, whereas Gretzky is just Canadian. If you go by the second point, his country of birth should not be mentioned unless it's relevant to his notability - therefore he's American. --Yankees76 ^Talk 13:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Last name

I am confused as to why Stastny's last name differs from the rest of his family. His parents are Peter and Darina Šťastný, and his cousins are Anton and Marián Šťastný. Why, then, is Paul a Stastny? GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Just style... he was born in North America in a non-Slavic country, and seems to have adopted the style. It's the same with his brother Yan Stastny. Jmlk17 17:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. That clears it all up. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Very welcome. :) Jmlk17 23:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

GA status On Hold

This article’s GA Review is currently on hold, as I have identified several issues that need to be addressed before the article can reach GA status. My goal for this review is to be as thorough as possible, and I’ve broken the review into four sections; Required Changes, assessment, comments, and suggestions.

Changes required for GA Passage:

1. Add the Persondata template
2. Rewrite the introduction so it consists of two paragraphs that are at least three sentences in length each, and adequately summarize the article’s contents. This section should include info about his early life before junior hockey, and mention the fact he’s the son of Peter Stastny much earlier in the intro
3. In the statistics section, note the specific day on which the stats were last updated, using wikitext something like*Last updated 2007-11-27<ref>insert where you got his NHL stats info from here</ref>
4. The info about Paul’s dual citizenship and his mom being American is important enough that it should be mentioned in the early years section, but could be reiterated in the “International Play” section without any problem
5. Instead of referring to him as “Paul Stastny” at the start of both the “Pre NHL” and “Colorado Avalanche” sections, simply refer to him as “Stastny.” It’s best to give the reader some credit and figure that they know the article is referring to Paul and not one of his family members. This occurs again in the third sentence under the “Colorado Avalanche” section, and yet again to start the “Style of Play” section.
6. The third sentence of the second paragraph of the “Pre NHL” section reads, “Stastny then helps the team win its second NCAA Men's Ice Hockey Championship in….” Stay consistent by using past tense, changing the word “helps” to “helped.”
7. The end of the seventh sentence under the “Avalanche” section reads, “…who was mentored by Peter when he started his career in the Nordiques.” It should read, “…when he started his career with the Nordiques.”
8. In the third sentence of the third paragraph under the “Avalanche” section, insert the word “with" into the sentence so it reads, “only one point in eight games, and with the Avalanche losing top players….”

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Overall comments:

• The references are numerous & well-formatted; excellent work!
• If promoted to GA status, the article will have be diligently updated during the course of his career; if the info falls too far behind, it could get demoted

Suggestions for future improvement (non-required GA review potential changes):

• Since there aren’t currently any pictures in the body of article, consider using quote boxes to perk the reader’s interest a bit more. It would be especially easy to do this in the “Style of Play” section, where there are already some great quotes.
• There are gaps in Paul’s timeline between his birth and playing junior hockey; more info about his childhood and early years is needed to round out the article. Some things to consider are; what high school did he attend; did he play more than one sport in high school, what were the exact years he moved to New Jersey and St. Louis...stuff like that. This info might be tough to find, but would be well worth the effort to include it.

When the required changes have been made, please notify me on my talk page, and I will consider the article for GA passage. If the required changes aren’t addressed within seven days, the article will fail and can be renominated at a later time. For anyone else reading this review, please consider reviewing an article or two at GAN to help with our current backlog of nominations. Thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia thus far, and good luck with this article in the future! Monowi (talk) 05:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

GA Review passed

After viewing the changes to the article, I believe it meets the current requirements for Good Article status; congratulations! Keep up the good work. Regards, Monowi (talk) 05:40, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

FAC?

I've done some copyediting on the article, but it looks really good and I think in its current state it should pass FAC. Comments? Maxim_(talk) 00:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your help. Do you think this should go to FAC now or to peer review first?--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 19:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I personally consider peer review as a bit of a joke, as it has never attracted many comments for me... I usually ask at WT:HOCKEY. Maxim_(talk) 19:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Lead photo

What happened to the other photo that was in the infobox? This new one is not exactly the best image of Stastny. He seems to be trying to scratch his nose or something, and just looks funny. I'm thinking that when the point comes for this to be on the front page, do we really want a picture of Stastny all weirded out? Kaiser matias (talk) 07:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this photo is better since it has higher resolution, better colours, closer to the subject etc. Is it just the look on his face that is bothering you there's other high res images available. --Krm500 (talk) 07:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand why this one would have been chosen. It is much better quality. It's just something that jumped out at me as soon as a went to the page. If no one else has any concerns, I'll leave it, seeing how it does what it's supposed to and all. Kaiser matias (talk) 07:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Smuggled

"1980; they were smuggled, along with Peter's pregnant wife with the help of the Quebec Nordiques' owner Marcel Aubut and chief scout Gilles Leger out of Czechoslovakia to Austria."

They have been no smuggled, they simply left their team Slovan Bratislava, which played tournament in Innsbruck. --kelovy (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Article name

Should it be moved to Paul Šťastný? Same with Yan. RandySavageFTW (talk) 23:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I answer also here: Paul and Yan were born in Canada, where AFAIK is not possible to register diacritics in official documents. So they were born Stastny. It's the same for Joe Sakic. --necronudist (talk) 14:43, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Canadian-born

I don't understand the problem with having Canadian-born in the lede. The version that was approved as FA described him as "Canadian-American". I tihnk that calling him Canadian-born is a more comprehensive description of nationality as opposed to just an American. Maxim_(talk) 03:56, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

WP:HOCKEY went over this before....birthplace shouldnt be in the lede anyway, and its irrelevant to his biography as well IMO--Львівське (talk) 07:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

How is he an American citizen?

From the article: "Being born in Canada to Slovak parents, Stastny and his brother Yan have dual citizenship of both Canada and the United States."

This doesn't make sense. How would being born in Canada to Slovak parents give him U.S. citizenship? He obviously is an American citizen, since he plays for Team USA, but the article does not actually explain the source of his citizenship. A quick Google search doesn't turn up anything, so if anyone has a source providing an explanation, that would be great. Tad Lincoln (talk) 05:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

His mother is American. It's explained in the source at the end of that sentence. I've corrected the article accordingly. DrKay (talk) 16:28, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Early Years

In the Early Years segment, it indicates that Council Bluffs, IA is "just across the Missouri River" from St. Louis, MO. This is not correct. It is just across the Missouri River from Omaha, Nebraska. I suggest dropping the 'just across the Missouri River" portion, as it adds nothing to the article.--CSchrieb (talk) 19:47, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

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FA concerns

Hi editors, I am concerned that this article no longer meets the featured article criteria. I have outlined my concerns below:

• The Colorado Avalanche section is very large and should be summarized
• Is there any information about his career for the current season? This can go in the "Re  Done
• There are multiple statements that need to be cited. I have tagged these in the article with citation needed templates Done
• The style of play section does not have any sources from after 2007, and sometimes players change their playstyle as they get older.

Are there any editors interested in bringing this back to FA standards? Z1720 (talk) 01:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• • Z1720, I can try and bring it back. Give me a few days. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Hi HickoryOughtShirt?4 take as much time as you need. The article is unlikely to be delisted while the article is being improved. Feel free to also comment on the FAR. Z1720 (talk) 21:38, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm part way through doing a general copyedit but won't go into too much detail because I know there are some other changes in the pipeline. There are a few MOS:NUMBER and MOS:DUPLINK errors that I can fix, as well as CS1 parameter fixes. In the meantime, here are a few comments:

• Date of birth needs a reliable source, maybe one of these? [1] or [2]  Done
• Spelling of centre in opening sentence should probably be 'center' per American English spelling.  Done
• 2nd para of 'Early years and family' is WP:CITEKILL and we could do with losing at least one of these citations.  Done
• "He also has two sisters, Katarina and Kristina (married to Mike Nash)." Are we supposed to know who Mike Nash is? Is it the retired hockey player? We should either not mention him (as non-notable) OR redlink his name as Mike Nash (ice hockey).  Done
• Each one of the awards in the 'Awards and honors' table needs a reliable source  Done
• Ref.63 is a permanent dead link that could possibly be replaced with this? [3]  Done

Cheers, Rodney Baggins (talk) 15:18, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Rodney Baggins, thanks for this in-depth review. I just saw this now and will start working on it. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:22, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

• MOS:ALLCAPS need to be reduced throughout the sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:31, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect submission

Stastny never played in the NCHC. He played in the WCHA. 2601:283:487F:25A0:A95C:C12C:B60A:E7E8 (talk) 03:55, 28 May 2022 (UTC)