Talk:Parliament of Catalonia

Would it be relevant to mention that the Parliament was dissolved by Spanish Government applying the Article 155 of the Constitution? I think that is a historically relevant event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masohe (talk • contribs) 15:24, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

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Parliament of Catalonia

It seems that one user unilaterally decided to add the word "regional": https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Parliament_of_Catalonia&diff=839111307&oldid=832439035

This is wrong, since the Parliament of Catalonia is legally defined as a "the unicameral legislature of Catalonia". It's the most important legislative body of Catalonia. The Spanish and Catalan Wikipedias give the correct definition, and here in the English one should also be corrected.

Chapter I. Parliament

ARTICLE 55. GENERAL PROVISIONS

1. Parliament represents the people of Catalonia.

2. Parliament exercises legislative power, approves the budget of the Generalitat and controls and promotes political and government action. It is the seat for the expression of pluralism and political debate.

3. Parliament is inviolable.

It's the same definition we can find for the Valencian Parliament or the Parliament of Navarre.

The word "regional" is not controversial, and suggesting that adding it is "vandalism" could constitute disruptive editing by itself. Catalonia is an autonomous community and the Parliament of Catalonia is a regional legislative body, a fact which can't be disputed. Further, the word has been there since this edit in May 2018; even if you consider that it was "unilaterally" added, the mere fact that such an edit was not contested means it has been implicitly accepted by others thereafter, so you should abide to WP:BRD and stop edit warring by trying to impose your own version of facts, as it is your current edit the one that is being disputed. Nonetheless, I'm pinging TheRichic, the author of such an edit, so that they can give out their reasons for the edit and, obviously, have the opportunity to defend themselves against your accusation of vandalism. Impru20^talk 19:06, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

The word "regional" is not controversial, it's just simply wrong. Catalonia is legally defined as an autonomous community and nationality, also as a nation according to Catalonia's Statute of Autonomy. On the other hand, the Parliament of Catalonia is legally defined as the legislative body of Catalonia. Same legal definition we can find for the Basque Parliament or the Parliament of Asturias. But it's not a "regional legislative body"; which is something that can't be disputed, because it simply is wrong. That doesn't appear on the law. And if you read the Spanish Wikipedia article for "Parliament of Catalonia" you'll realize the word "regional" doesn't appear anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.56.115.247 (talk) 19:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

"Regional" is the common name word in English meaning autonómico, as there is not an easy, widely sourced translation of it. You can check how it is used by reliable sources such as the BBC. Arguing that it is wrong and imposing your own view of it on the article you are yourself engaging in the disruptive and outside of consensus behaviour you are allegedly attempting to denounce, by introducing your own POV into the article, when it can't be disputed that the Parliament of Catalonia is a regional legislative body. On your reference to other Wikipedia articles, you should keep in mind two things: 1) Wikipedia is not a source for itself; and 2) that other stuff exists elsewhere in Wikipedia does not mean it is done correctly elsewhere, nor that it is a valid argument. Impru20^talk 20:39, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Defining in an encyclopedia the Parliament of Catalonia as the "regional legislative body of Catalonia" is definitely a way to introduce POV and going against consensus, since it was one user who decided to introduce this unnecessary word, going against what the law states and the 10+ years consensus of this article. It's as absurd as saying that the Florida Legislature is the "regional" legislature of the U.S. State of Florida, just because "it has many devolved competences but not all of the ones that would correspond to a national legislative power". The Catalan Parliament is the supreme or main legislative body of Catalonia. Not the regional one. And that's the same definition for other Parliaments, like the Andalusian, Basque, Valencian, Asturian, etc. that I have already explained.

You are clearly unaware of how WP:CONSENSUS works. Firstly, no one needs an explicit permission from anyone to introduce any given term in a Wikipedia article; everyone is free to edit and improve the encyclopedia. As per WP:EDITCONSENSUS, Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. Should that edit later be revised by another editor without dispute, it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached. This said, that edit was not disputed at the time, so it did have consensus. However, your new edit revising that previous edit has been disputed, so it is your edit the one that does not have consensus.

The comparison with Florida is not due; a US state is a whole different entity than a Spanish autonomous community, with different competences and attributions.

Nonetheless, in order to have a compromise, I think that we can solve this by adding the "unicameral legislature of the autonomous community of Catalonia" structure, which is the same one as used in these other legislative bodies you mention. I guess that shouldn't pose any issue under your own reasoning. Impru20^talk 21:28, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Defining the Parliament of Catalonia as the "unicameral legislature of the autonomous community of Catalonia" is legally correct. It's a bit redundant to include "autonomous community", because you are defining what Catalonia is, not what the Parliament of Catalonia is. But since it's correct, there's no reason for me to dispute it.

The only reason why I added the word regional is, like I said in december when I discussed this matter with other contributor, to homogenize all the autonomic parlament articles of Spain in this wiki, because most of them use the word "regional". This is not wrong or right, it's a fact. For example, in Spain whe call them "autonomic parliaments" because they're a parliament of an autonomous community. In English, it's more accurate to say "regional" instead of "autonomic" or "region" instead of "autonomous community" to avoid misunderstandings. It's doesn't matter how the Statutes of Autonomy describe them because even if they are described as a nationality, a region, a community or an historical identity, they are the same thing, they are regions. Catalonia doesn't have more powers because is self-described as a nationality. Madrid is described as a region and it's the same thing than Catalonia, an autonomous community, this means, a region. TheRichic (Messages here) 10:47, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

En Comú Podem grouping

I don't believe ECP should be listed as the opposition, but in the crossbench, one step away from the CUP. Accordingly, there should be four groupings: 1. Govt parties; 2. Supported by; 3. Crossbench; and 4. Opposition parties.

Is there agreement/consensus for this change? 49.184.44.5 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 06:07, 6 February 2022 (UTC)