Talk:Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970)

Attribution

Mgreason (talk) 16:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

prevented from participation in next play

The eye-injury incident is also written up in Jeff Triplette article, which says that Triplette did not allow Brown in next play because of the rule about injury timeout (the injured player must miss the next play). Why is that comment not here in the Orlando Brown article? It does occur to me, though, that the injury was caused by an official. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 16:50, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 16 September 2023

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970) and Orlando Brown (American football, born 1996). After much-extended time for discussion, there is a rough consensus to move both titles, and with the leading candidate being a move to birth years. BD2412 T 01:47, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Orlando Brown (American football) → Orlando Brown Sr.
• Orlando Brown Jr. → Orlando Brown (American football, born 1996)

– incomplete disambiguation; Orlando Brown Jr. also is a player of American football Joeykai (talk) 14:55, 16 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 15:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. No evidence that he is known as Orlando Brown Sr., and the son is almost always known as Orlando Brown Jr. This seems like a Vladimir Guerrero/Vladimir Guerrero Jr. situation; the status quo is fine. 162 etc. (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose move. He isn't primarily referred to as Sr., even after his son's debut. O.N.R. ^(talk) 16:28, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
• Support some kind of move, the younger football player is also known as just "Orlando Brown" without the Jr, as per many refs already on page and greater google search. I do believe both should be disambiguated further, perhaps by year of birth?--Ortizesp (talk) 01:33, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
• Move the two articles to Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970) and Orlando Brown (American football, born 1996). The younger Brown is rarely if ever referred to as "Orlando Brown Jr." in sources, so I don't find "Jr." to be a suitable disambiguator here. Birth years are the best way to disambiguate the two figures, since both play the same position (offensive tackle) in the same sport (American football). ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:15, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: in consideration of the alternative proposed titles. relisting as multiple page moves to get the banner up on the Jr page. – robertsky (talk) 15:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• Move to use birth years, per Ortizesp and ModernDayTrilobite. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose using birth years per WP:NCPDAB, where years are recommended to be used only as a last resort. The current setup is causing no problems whatsoever. The son is sometimes referred to as Jr.[1] per WP:NATURAL. The father is sometimes referred to as Sr[2] so neutral on that, but it's also unnecessary. All we need is the hatnote already on the father's page. Station1 (talk) 19:36, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

  WP:NCPDAB does not refer to the use of birth years as a "last resort"; it just says they are not normally used. When the situation calls for it, they are used. There are many uses of birth year as a disambiguator. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  I agree that years are used when necessary. I just don't think the situation calls for it in this case, where more WP:NATURAL and WP:RECOGNIZABLE disambiguation is available. Station1 (talk) 18:18, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  But I have not noticed you identifying a "more WP:NATURAL and WP:RECOGNIZABLE disambiguation" for the article title about the father. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:07, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  As I said, either the current title or proposal for "Sr." are fine. Of course, a hatnote is required no matter what the title. Station1 (talk) 21:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  I see. If the title includes "Sr.", I don't think a hatnote is needed on that article (WP:NOTAMB). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:35, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  To clarify, saying "I see" doesn't mean I've changed my mind. It just means I understand what was being said. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:25, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970) and Orlando Brown (American football, born 1996). Standard disambiguation, used very commonly despite claims to the contrary. Clearly the current situation is untenable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:16, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
• Move to Orlando Brown (1970–2011) or Orlando Brown (1990s–2000s American football) Difficult pair of articles to title. Orlando Brown (American football) is definitely incomplete disambiguation, and Orlando Brown Sr. is not a very common name (but I wouldn't oppose it). Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970) is better than the current title, but I think more complicated than either of my suggestions. Oppose moving Orlando Brown Jr., which is sufficient disambiguation and a more than common name: NFL (see articles), Pro-Football-Reference, Sports Illustrated, ESPN. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 20:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Those suggested titles are simply not what we use on Wikipedia. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:52, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
    • Granted they're not common, just trying to float some options. Again, not opposed to Orlando Brown (American football, born 1970). Hameltion (talk | contribs) 13:45, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
• Move to use birth years, per Ortizesp and ModernDayTrilobite. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:21, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.