Talk:Oldest people/Archive 2

Alphaeus Cole - wrong death date?

• It appears that Cole's death date is wrongly reported here, and in many other places on the Internet. I looked up his death certificate, and it read:

Alphaeus COLE

Birth Date: 	12 Jul 1876 
Death Date: 	2 May 1989 
Social Security Number:  	130-05-3991 
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued:  	New York
Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 	10011

[The information on this is from the United States government records and is in the public domain.]

• Other sources on the Internet seem to agree with an 1988 death date. As a result, I did not change the Wikipedia page, and await confirmation.

• That's not a death certificate, that's a social security record...what it means is the SSA continued sending checks to his address for months after he died...(your tax dollars going to a dead man). → R Young {^yakł_talk} 19:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The Tables

• I think the tables should be in order of longevity rather than ordered by DOB. Also I'd like where possible to include the days - eg. 111 yrs 254 days. Anyone got any objections to my redoing them like that? Marcus22 15:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Which tables exactly are you referring to? Extremely sexy 16:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• erm.. well, the 'Official Oldest Living' ones which are in DOB order (?) and not in age order. And, whilst I'm on it, why are these tables so called when many if not all are actually dead?! Marcus22 18:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Please, do pay attention: of course they are all dead apart from the la(te)st one, because those tables contain the oldest validated persons at the time, so they should be and remain in exactly that order. Extremely sexy 21:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, a rude reply. Well, in that case I will just alter the tables as I see fit and not bother to correspond with you again. Thanks for nothing. Marcus22 09:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, it wasn't meant like that though. Extremely sexy 12:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, well, thats OK then! In fact I see what you mean about the tables, as you say, they are all dead apart from the latest one... because they are the record holders etc... It just wasnt clear from the description to a layman, like me, what exactly was going on and so they appeared to be jumbled up and a little odd. But now that I have looked more closely I've slightly changed the description and so on and so, hopefully, it will be a little more clear. regards Marcus22 16:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you see my point, friend. Extremely sexy 23:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Woman from Georgia

• I read in a 1970s National Geographic article that there was a woman in the Republic of Georgia that lived past age 130. --Rmpfu89 18:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• PLEASE read the articles on LONGEVITY MYTHS and LONGEVITY CLAIMS before presenting messages like this. Those claims are NOT credible; moreover, you did not even provide a name of a person. → R Young {^yakł_talk} 04:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

False and exaggerated cases

• Recently, someone tried to add the false case of Charlie Smith, who claimed to be '137' when he died in 1979 (but turned out to be 100 years old, based on the 1900 census). This and many other claims have been DEBUNKED a long time ago. Please, stop including false cases.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 20:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Moses Hardy

• Is anyone else getting annoyed that they haven't resolved Moses Hardy's birth year yet? There are supposed to be very strict requirements for acceptance of a supercentenarian; ranking him as if the 1893 date is correct is making the standards for ranking too lax. Because there is ambiguity, he should be ranked based on the youngest possibility, that is 1894, not 1893. (unsigned comment)

• Greetings, This case has become like the Izumi case. Guinness World Records has listed Moses Hardy as born Jan 6 1893 in the 2007 edition. Hence, to overturn this now would be to go against Guinness. Also, while the 1900 census says 'Jan 1894,' the 1910, 1920, and 1930 census (and ID card) all agree with an age of 113 or greater. Demoting Moses (like Pluto) would also present the problem of Richard Washington, whose age claim of birth to April 1893 appears to be credible, even though the case is not finished. → R Young {^yakł_talk} 17:22, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Media storms

• When a major event happens, like the passing of the world's oldest person, this and related articles tend to get over-edited by people that don't know what they are talking about. Further, the pace of the add-ons, tack-ons, and removals is such that the article is often contorted in just a few days.

• To counter this, I reverted the article to the Aug 25 version and then compensated by re-doing all the essential updates. If you feel an update has been missed, please try to do them one at a time rather than revert. Usually, the quality of the article is maintained when the article is NOT in a major media cross-section, not during a 'current event' media storm.131.96.70.158 19:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• Do we really need this many tables? a lot of stuff seems to be repeated. Kamato Hongo's listing indicates there's some doubt about her birthdate. Her article doesn't indicate this. Any reason for those question marks? (unsigned comment above)

• Research by demographer Michel Poulain suggested that Kamato Hongo could have been a few years younger, based on the birthdates of siblings. He suggested that she was about 110 years old, instead. This assertion was not proven but did raise some doubt on the case, leading to the question marks.68.219.137.236 00:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Further, calling the edits of others 'improvements' is POV bias. I could easily call them 'dubious.' Simply making up false/fictitious data (like Betsy Baker 'became' the oldest person in Nov 1948) is NOT an improvement.131.96.70.158 19:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

'To' column

• I strongly feel the 'To' column is redundant information. It is obviously the date of death of the title-holder, and the 'from' date of the following title-holder, both of which are already shown in the table. Please explain why you see the need to keep the 'To' column before reverting. 192.75.88.231 17:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• 1. It's not what you 'strongly feel,' it's what the consensus is. The Tables have survived as-is for over 2 years. They were made to give a visual appeal to the 'world's oldest person' titleholders. The box-feel makes the title-holders a little more significant than a simple line. Your version is visually unappealing. Also, changes from 'Aug 20' to '20 August' in FACT are not improvements. For someone pushing 'conciseness,' I think it's silly to want to spell out every 'Aug.' Moreover, there are a lot of content updates needed, and your reverts deleted added content. So, please make changes one at a time (i.e. change the date order first, if you must...I don't care too much about that).→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 10:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Bold

• Why are some entries bolded?

• Because they are officially validated as being the oldest people (the oldest woman and man) in the world currently. Extremely sexy 23:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, didn't notice this topic before my latest edits. I thought bold was for living persons in all tables (except the 'currently living' tables), as seen for Moses Hardy and Elizabeth Stefan. Seems useful this way (easier to see which persons potentially affect the ranking in the tables). For the 'currently living' tables, bold shows the title-holders. At least, that's my suggestion. 192.75.88.231 19:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

• Okay, your reasoning really does make sense. Extremely sexy 21:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

My great grandpa!

• He was 111 when he died, shouldn't he be on the list :)?

• Could you provide more contact information? I maintain a worldwide list of persons 110+. → R Young {^yakł_talk} 04:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Silas Simmons

• Greetings, in regards to Silas Simmons...this page (oldest people) was intended to maintain lists of VERIFIED supercentenarian cases, not media stars. For all the news stories on Silas, so far there has been no birth certificate provided and the census records indicate that Silas is two years younger than claimed. Therefore, we have reason to believe he is only 109 and is it grossly unfair to move him up to 111 without proof when others have proof. Given that Silas was said to have played early baseball, one would think that someone could submit some verification of his age from an early date, but so far this has not happened. Until then, we have reason to believe that he might be 109 and a claim to age 111...simply not acceptable. Finally, Silas has his own article, it seems that should be more than enough for his story without deleting someone from the legitimate list.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 06:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Well, he died now, so he wouldn't be on the list anyway. I see your point. For some reason I remember reading in the article that his birth certificate claimed the 1895 date. I don't see tatnow so that may not have even existed. I only did that becuase Moses Hardy is done this exact same way, being put on the list with his older date. Should that one be changed to the assumption that he in the younger age as well? (Never mind, just read the above section on Moses, and I don't recall how to cross out text on Wikipedia.) --Wizardman 19:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• The differences are two. First, Moses is so old that he'd be on the list, either way. With Silas, if born in 1897, he wouldn't be on the list. Two, Moses's support for '1893' included the 1910 census (which is within the 20-year rule) and for Silas, the 1917 draft card is outside the 20-year limit (which was established by researchers in 1999). Still, Silas is the oldest professional baseball player, whether 111 or 109, since the record was 107. → R Young {^yakł_talk} 17:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

142 year old man in Iran

• Please take a look at this. http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0611167833160136.htm

• Please prove that this info is not just a rumor. Georgia guy 00:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Allaudin Khan

• If the world's oldest person list includes people over 110+, why isn't Ustad Allaudin Khan listed? I mean, even Wikipedia's article on puts him at 110.

--169.237.165.72 19:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• What Wikipedia article? And, please read the longevity myths and longevity claims articles first. → R Young {^yakł_talk} 09:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Elias Wan 110 years old!!!

• [1] [2] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.30.172.74 (talk) 08:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

• But could this really be proven too? Extremely sexy 16:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Greetings, Can this case be proven? Where are the records? Who is responsible for it? Sincerely,

Robert Young→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 04:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

• HERE ARE TWO OTHER LINKS: http://www.orthodox.cn/news/031115frwen_en.htm and http://www.orthodox.cn/contemporary/shanghai/frelias_en.htm FROM 2003 AND 2006, WHEN HE CELEBRATED HIS 107th AND 110th BIRTHDAY. THAT SHOWS, THAT MR. WENS CLAIM "IS" CORRECT. HE IS NOT ONE OF THIS PEOPLE YOU`VE NEVER HEARD SOMETHING BEFORE, BUT SUDDENLY ARE 110 YEARS OLD.

AS IT IS SAID IN THE TEXT, MR. WEN CURRENTLY LIVES IN SAN FRANCISCO, AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE PARISH COUNCIL AT THE HOLY VIRGIN CATHEDRAL ON GEARY BLVD.

• I hope Robert will be able to validate him through the Census then, but he was probably born in an Asian or Eastern country, which will make it very difficult to do just that, so fingers crossed. Extremely sexy 21:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• I think we should add him to Wikipedia. The standards here are slightly lower than the GRG...being a priest, its likely his entire life has been documented. The GRG issue is...will someone send those documents in? He won't be on the list without them, but we may assume he is 110...→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 03:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Habib Miyan

• [3] I can't seem to find this 128 year old man in the article! Did I miss him somehow or did y'all just forget to add him? Or is there dispute over the veracity of his real age? 66.212.215.119 18:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• The latter it is indeed (he is allegedly "128", but would you believe him, let alone without having any proof at all for his claimed age?). Extremely sexy 17:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• He is a faker. Even the name he uses (Habib Miyan) doesn't match the name on the ID document (Rahim Khan).→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 17:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Oldest Woman Dies 12th December, 2006

• I am saddened to hear that Elizabeth Bolden has died. This has been reported today but I am now not sure what the proper procedure for updating this article will be. Is this article also being referenced elsewhere ? eg. Wikinews ? Jacketed 21:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• --I was going to ask the same thing. I don't want to touch anything as far as the charts are concerned. The gentleman from Puerto Rico is officially the oldest living person on the planet.--Prn51 22:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• This has already been done by several persons. Extremely sexy 01:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Ordinal rank trumps age rank

• In regards to the discussion of what comes first, ORDINAL rank trumps age rank. That Pierre Darcourt was 108 and validated in 1837 is significant. If Pierre were 108 today, he would barely register a note on the national (Belgian) press. Likewise, Delina Filkins being 113 in 1928 far exceeds in significance someone being 113 in 2006. Because the maximum recorded age is continuing to increase, albeit slowly, the most important measure is, firstly, ordinal rank.

• True, in some cases age rank is more important...Susie Gibson or Bettie Wilson being 115 in 2006 is in some ways more significant than being #1 and 114 in 2004. That's why we have more than one measure listed. Nonetheless, Susie herself would tell you that she'd rather be "oldest" than "115."68.211.6.208 22:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Seher Bulut

• [4]

• I added 122-year-old Seher Bulut who is the living oldest human and woman as well. Ajda 02:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

• Read the story carefully. It only says that the Seher Bulut case was "nominated," it was not accepted (and Orhan Kural resigned from Guinness soon after). Also note the article gives the incorrect ages of Maria Capovilla (116, not 117) and Emiliano Mercado del Toro (then 114, not 113).→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 07:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

110 year old living in Denmark

• According to Statistics Denmark the oldest living male in Denmark (July 2006, next data coming Jan 2007) is 110 years old Afghanistan-born, and has been the oldest living male in Denmark since 2002.

• I’m not the one to argue about the correctness of the data, other then to say he has been figuring in Statistics Denmark databases since 1997, years before he was the oldest.

I assume he must have come to Denmark in 1997 and when he was entered into the Det Centrale Personregister, he must have shown some credentials for his birth at that time? (Statistics Denmark draws data from Det Centrale Personregister) Here is btw a perfect example why wikis policy of no original research is not applicable on all subjects, and actually sometimes is counter-productive. Because doing research to try to confirm or not confirm his age, would most definitely qualify as OR, whether as liking to a respectable source as Statistics Denmark who says he is the oldest male living in Denmark, and has been since 2002, is not! Twthmoses 19:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• Greetings, Even those who know that sources such as 'Statistics Denmark' are generally reliable, would not accept this case. This is an immigrant, not someone born in Denmark. As you said yourself, 'came to Denmark in 1997'. Thus, there is no proof of birth from Denmark and I highly doubt any from Afghanistan. So, I suggest you drop this case.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 21:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Methuselah

• I'm curious why Methuselah isn't even mentioned in the article. Coming in at 969 years old, Wikipedia's own article on the man describes him as "the oldest person whose age is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible." I understand that most people do not consider the Bible to be a historical document, but I would imagine that he would at least be mentioned under a "Religious Characters" section or something. David Mitchell 21:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• I agree with you, plus he is mentioned on the Dutch version of the article. Extremely sexy 22:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• I disagree...a LOT. Mixing religion and myth with science is like putting church and state together. They don't go. What next, "China's oldest Daoist was 256" and "the oldest Indian vedda is 24,000 years". No, we don't need this. Sad.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 07:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree: Methuselah's age is not verifiable, and therefore should not be in this article. 134.187.162.248 22:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• First, do not bring up the "church and state" deal. Second, science backs religion, and religion proves the rest. Now, may I remind you that people were and are extremely and blindly against the Bible. They said the Hittites never existed, but later archaeological finds said otherwise. Do not make the same mistake. Methuselah's age may not be able to be proved scientifically, but it is true. I am not blind or incompetant. I do believe in God Almighty and Jesus Christ. Let me remind you that you can not prove evolution, but it has been dubbed "truth", despite the fact that it is still theory. So, do not dub Religion as "Myth", when although I see it as fact, I understand you see it as "myth". So until you find a formula or something that proves Religion as "Myth", it should be mentioned in the article. --69.67.230.16 19:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

• In Genesis 6:3, God states that man's life will be limited to 120 years. That prophecy of several thousand years ago is still true. 209.145.207.91 00:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

• We have Longevity claims and Longevity myths which would be better places to try and get such dubiously sourced ages mentioned. This is only for people's who's ages have been certified by various reliable sources. Also, science doesn't back a lot of the crap religion claims. For example, many religions claim god created life & the universe, mircales are possible etc none of which agrees with science. Christianity in particular has a number of dubious claims like Noah's ark which is so obviously bullshit it's not even worth considering Nil Einne 22:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• I am surprised by your stark dismissivness of Noah’s Ark - have you seen how widespread the story actually is among the worlds civilizations?: Deluge (mythology). Chesdovi 12:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

• I think Methuselah should be removed from that list for a few reasons. 1) By adding him exclusively to that list, you are neglecting quite a few other figures, some in the Hebrew Scriptures some not, who lived well beyond the reported age of the second oldest person. It seems to be added as an attempt of someone to show that they learned a piece of Bible trivia at some point in their lives. 2) It seems rather short sighted to call the list the oldest people/men/women ever when the only evidence gathered are birth certificates (or other documented proof) which have not been available since the beginning of humanity/evolution of homo sapiens.

In editing this, I would either suggest going all-in with the historical figures (regardless of whether or not people consider signed documents as the definitive age source), or to take them all out and rename the section the oldest people/men/women since the establishment of verifiable birth records.

Oldest bishop

• Bishop Juan Camargo Angulo +109 [[5]]

List of oldest bishops, archbishops and cardinals [[6]] Polish wikipedia

• He died a mere 37 days before his 110th birthday: pity. Extremely sexy 14:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Age when oldest

• For those unfamiliar with it, if someone gets the 'oldest' title at 109 and dies at 112, then the range is 109-112. This is more scientific, as it shows the valleys as well as the peaks.→ R Young {^yakł_talk} 07:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Regis Philbin

• I watched David Letterman saying that Regis Philbin now is the oldest person alive. I think this article should say something but it did not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.21.200.24 (talk) 11:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

• Are you joking? Extremely sexy 15:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• http://p206.ezboard.com/f247forumfrm1.showMessage?topicID=444.topic —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.139.161.25 (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

• That's complete nonsense and not to be found. Extremely sexy 16:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

A graph?

• This article might be improved by adding a graph to it. I was thinking of one in the style of the Netcraft uptime graphs, thus one with diagonal lines, so you can see when one person took over the title of oldest living person, and the age difference between different people.

• I believe this can be done with EasyTimeline, but I doubt it will be easy. If I have more time, I might look into it. Cheezycrust 16:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think this is a very good idea. A graph could provide a better and much faster comprehension of the tables. Would it be possible to represent the disputed cases (like Izumi) in another way than the fully validated ones? weko0013 21:33, 22 January 2007 (MET)

Question on article

• The article has two names flagged with an *, but no description of the meaning. I believe the * is there because the people are still alive. I just think that if the names are going to be flagged there should be an explanation. (unsigned comment)

• Yes, so 114* = currently 114. Extremely sexy 01:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

What doleful times

• What a strange time at the moment. We have lost so many "oldest people" in the last few weeks. Elizabeth Bolden (116), Emiliano Mercado del Toro (115), Julie Winnifred Bertrand (115), Emma Faust Tillman (114) and Moses Hardy (113). I hope, that this row must not be continued this fast. And now I have just learned that "my doyen", Germany's oldest living man, has passed away at almost 110. I think we have to accept that a great era is now coming to an end and we have to say good bye to the last pre-1895-born people. (But fortunately there are still at least 20 people living, born before 1895!)

• So are you indeed Thomas Breining then? Extremely sexy 00:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

• No, I am not Thomas Breining. I am a 19-year old grammar school pupil from Germany, and I`m just interested in gerontology. The German-speaking Wikipedia does not have so many pages about it. (I think there are less people in Germany who are interested in gerontology) So I often "check" the English pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.137.114.135 (talk) 17:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

• Okay, but thanks anyway for your answer. Extremely sexy 17:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)