Talk:Nintendo 3DS/Archive 4

Verifiable specs?

Now that the 3DS has been released in Japan, should the TBAs in the spec chart be replaced when they can or should they still be backed up by a verifiable source? I'm worried that some bad specs will be snuck in... TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I think, if for example, Gamespot or some place, does some sort of article with them actually taking it apart and saying what stuff is, then it could be included. If it's just random people, or still websites saying "a source told us so and so..." (like the "rumored IGN specs", then it should stay TBA. Side note, I can see that in the article someone wrongfully put "Internal memory - 1.5g", which is wrong, the 1.5 is for "external", but I don't know how to fix that part because it has so many subsections now... Sergecross73 msg me 00:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems someone already jumped the gun in adding in unverified specs. The source links given just lead to an article based on a tear-down of the system and don't even attempt to guess at them. My suggestion would be to remove them from the article. 174.42.208.173 (talk) 03:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Is "ifixit" a reliable source? Someone keeps adding specs from that website. I've never heard of it, so I really don't know... Sergecross73 msg me 15:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't realized that someone else before me had added the iFixit site ref (which had then gotten reverted by a third person). Anyway: iFixit has been around for years, is often quoted by other websites, and even has a somewhat crappy wikipedia article. I would consider them a reputable source - but I'm also obviously biased by virtue of my having added the ref. (Wikipedia really needs to come to sort of consensus about what makes websites 'reliable' or not; this same issue pops up way too often for my taste. Just look at the Old Man Murray fiasco....) --moof (talk) 16:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

iFixit has been pretty reputable, however I'm not sure if they are considered to be a reliable source by Wikipedia. That withstanding, I think using iFixit as a source would be okay for the names of the microchips used in the console, but for nothing else. Any specific specifications (besides screen resolution, which has been released by Nintendo themselves) should not be added to the article. Such "data" right now is still only speculation and rumor, and is likely to not be true. 174.42.130.63 (talk) 21:39, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the only remaining "TBA" specs I can see are for memory and VRAM; for those, and for a "useful" description of the CPU, I suspect we're going to have to wait until the homebrew (e.g. DS Linux) arrives. I'd like to see a reference for the "24 bit color", myself. --moof (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about iFixit. I mean, all it shows are pictures without any sort of description, and I can't see how any info is supposed to be obtained from that site. It doesn't explain what the average user is seeing. Are those pictures sufficient enough for those links to be considered reliable sources? TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 18:00, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I think my main problem is that this "ifixit" is really no different from an every day blog. It's just a random person/people. It doesn't seem to contain editors or paid staff or anything like a legit site like Gamespot or IGN. I'm leaning towards "not wikipedia -reliable" unless someone has some convincing info saying otherwise...Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Specs part 2

Okay, lets figure out how to go about this. There's 2 issues it seems. 1) Is "ifixit" a reliable source? (By wikipedia standards, not personal "I read them all the time and they're smart guys!" type arguments.) 2)A user claims that there is a difference between what "ifixit" and some other source he's trying to use.

So basically, are either reliable? Why do they come to difference conclusions? I'm leaning towards thinking that neither are a definitive source for this information, and that it should be back to TBA. However, it should be discussed, so it's not like all the issues that happened with the rumored IGN specs earlier... Sergecross73 msg me 14:12, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

E3 2010 Design Vs. Final Design

Right now, it says that the E3 2010 design was "almost final but subject to change". Now that there is a final design, I think that if there are any notable differences, they should be mentioned, and if the differences are relatively unimportant, that bit can just be removed. I feel like it should be updated, but I wasn't sure of the actual differences... Sergecross73 msg me 18:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I think really the only difference is that the circle pad was the color of the system at E3, the final design on both systems uses a white circle pad. And I agree this should be mentioned. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 17:49, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

There were differences in the Start/Home/Select buttons, too. At E3, the buttons were... sticking out? In the picture we see at the top of the article, the buttons are on-level with their surroundings. Yeah, I know. Those descriptions suck. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 18:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Ripe Detector?

A few days ago, I saw some Tweets about the 3DS having an application on one of the AR cards included with the system that allows you to take a picture of a fruit such as a banana, and it would say how ripe they are. Would this be good information for the article if a reliable source can be found? Capitalistmaniac (talk) 23:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Could be worth a mention in the AR section. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 23:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I have a Nintendo 3DS and it doesn't have a ripe detector.70.44.153.248 (talk) 16:55, 30 March 2011 (UTC)Ethan

Joshua Topolski saying 3DS is a gimmick

I feel this needs to be part of the article because it's from a highly influentual tech blogger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.41.248.125 (talk) 00:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Who? (I'm guessing probably not.) Sergecross73 msg me 03:33, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Joshua Topolsky of Engadget. I would think he's fairly notable. However, where has he said this? I can't find it anywhere. And just including that comment would violate WP:NPOV. We'd need a whole reception section. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 03:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Who cares what he says? It's only his opinion.173.86.31.138 (talk) 13:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)Ethan

Who cares what you just said? It's only your opinion. Sometimes articles need opinions. An opinion from the editor-in-chief of a tech blog (though I doubt that he could be called "highly influential") could be valuable, as long as there are other opinions that allow this article to stay neutral.

Anyway, I still can't find where Mr. Topolsky has said this, so I'm going to guess that it's made up... TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 18:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

And...what makes you sure this guy's opinion is powerful enough to stop me from saving up to get the 3DS this Summer? 24.179.158.29 (talk) 07:02, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

What makes you think that I want to include this opinion to convince people to not buy a 3DS? It's an opinion from a notable guy. That's it. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 12:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

There's a difference between an opinion and a fact.70.44.153.248 (talk) 14:38, 12 March 2011 (UTC)Ethan

And what does that have to do with anything? It's very simple, as Stickman says, if a reception section started, and a reliable sources is provided by a notable person, then it's fine. If not, then it'll get removed. Sergecross73 msg me 14:43, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

You act like an encyclopedia is a place for facts only? Perhaps we should delete all of the review scores in the video game articles. Perhaps remove the bits of literary criticism from notable critics in the literature articles. Hey, how about we remove the opinions of music critics in the music articles? Stop thinking that we're out to convince people with these opinions. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 22:47, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

How is this going to help improve the article anyway. Its not like we can just make a whole new section just for some guys opinion. I mean what are we going to do do with it add it to the preloaded applications. I say we ignore this stupid opinion. Joshua Topolski is a gimmick. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 00:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello? It wouldn't be a section for one opinion. It would be a section for opinions from notable people. If you guys thought (and still think) that we were going to add in a section titled "Joshua Topolski on why the 3DS sucks", then you two need to actually read what we just typed instead of jumping in and spouting nonsense. We want opinions, with an "s", which makes it plural, which means "more than one." TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 03:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it'd be called a "Reception" section. I'm troubled how people are having a hard time with this concept...Sergecross73 msg me 04:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not spouting nonsense. I just don't think its that great for the article. Its nothing to get all worked up about. 24.115.88.249 (talk) 17:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC) -Bradford

I don't even think this guy is notable, anyway. It's just some guy who has a website about games- it's not the president of America saying it. And who's going on Wikipedia to look for someone saying the Nintendo 3DS is a gimmick? Most people go on Wikipedia for information, not opinions. And if someone does care what Joshua Topolski says, why don't they just go ask him. I think it's completely unnecessary to add what Joshua Topolski says.70.44.153.248 (talk) 17:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)Ethan

It doesn't matter how you feel about him. If a Reception section is started, and commentary is made from a reliable source, there's no reason why it couldn't be added. I personally don't care about this person either, but it's not my website with my rules. It's wikipedia. Engadget a legit technology website, so unless I'm unaware of something, they'd be both reliable and of importance. Again, I don't think this exact comment necessarily needs to be added, but I feel like this needs be said if a similar situation arises in teh future...Sergecross73 msg me 17:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Bradford and Ethan ... read the whole conversation. If you guys really had, you two would learned that I had already given up on finding a source for that quote because I could not find it anywhere. Thus, there was no reason to, and I repeat, jump in and spout nonsense. All I have to do is point out the various Reception sections in the multitude of literature, music, film, and video game articles on this site. Opinions don't count as information? Really? TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 18:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think they're confused. Wikipedia is not the place for the opinions of the editors. They've likely been told that many times, probably by us even. And that's true. But it's very necessary to add the opinions of notable people by reliable sources, that's very different. Sergecross73 msg me 18:15, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay you don't have to treat us like babies. Plus you guys always get worked up over the stupidest things. And you always are getting mad at us with the stupid rules, but many time I have seen on the rules about being nice to other people, and I guess that means your breaking the rules. 24.115.88.249 (talk) 20:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC) -Bradford

And also just look right at the top of this page, it says be polite. You guys are pretty rude if you ask me. 24.115.88.249 (talk) 20:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC) -Bradford

True. I have been rude. I broke a rule. But don't pretend to be the victim here. Getting worked up over "the stupidest things"? Two words: Final design. Ring a bell? TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 20:33, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

If your talking about the time I asked if we can change a picture. That isn't getting worked up. What I meant by getting worked up I mean being rude. And all I did was ask if we could change the picture. And also when you said Two words: Final design. Ring a bell? That was also rude so you broke the rule again. 24.115.88.249 (talk) 20:41, 13 March 2011 (UTC) -Bradford

I was wondering why Ethan's distress over the final design didn't count as one of these "stupidest things" you mentioned. Perhaps I should also remind you of the whole "Health and Safety app" fiasco. And rude? That's a stretch. Stop making yourself look like the victim and covering up your own mistakes with the whole rudeness thing. There are points that need to be made clear to you and Ethan. You complain about "stupid rules". Any community, online or in the real world, that hopes for stability needs rules. It would be best to learn them. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 20:51, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

All admit you have a point there. How about we drop this fight, and become allies instead of foes. And i'm not being sarcastic I really mean it, these fights are getting old 24.115.88.249 msg me

Very well. Agreed. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Why...is there a link to my talk page after your last post, Bradford? (only in red, strangely). Sergecross73 msg me 21:19, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah sorry about that. I'm was trying to make my thing that you have in all of your messages. But I didn't do it right. But I made one now. And it won't take it to your page anymore. 24.115.88.249 Nintendo 3DS —Preceding undated comment added 21:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC).

But i'm not sure if i'm done. 24.115.88.249 (talk) 21:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC) -Bradford

Yeah, who cares what one person whom I've never heard of says? 24.179.137.23 (talk) 22:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Please read the whole conversation before making a comment like that again. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 22:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

But I WANT to get this system...now you're saying I have to avoid it like the plague? Whatever happened to the words "to each his own"? 24.179.137.23 (talk) 02:38, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

It's fairly obvious that you haven't read this conversation. Nowhere do we say or hint that we want to include his opinion because we want people to not buy this system. Again, read before you type. And for the record, I want this system, too. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 02:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

CPU

Ifixit says they know what everything is: The CPU is a "1048 0H ARM" which is already added, what's not mentioned is that, after looking it up, and it is a Version of the ARM11 CPU, from what i've read its one of the recent versions that features:

800MHz to 1 GHz+ in 65G at under 2 mm2 1 to 4 cores in an SMP cluster with ARM11 MPCore™ ARM System IP, Physical IP, and available third party design support ARM926/AHB to ARM11/AXI migration simplified through AMBA® AHB-AXI bridge fabric

Significant performance increase over ARM926EJ-S™ processor in media, OS, and browser performance Smartphone-class web browser software and OS support Basic support for Adobe Flash (Flash Lite) with ARM11 + L2 Flash Player 10.1 support requires ARMv7A (Cortex-A class) Combine ARM1176 with Mali-200 to provide OpenGL ES 2.0 support for rich UI

most of that probably means nothing when it comes to the 3DS, no way will the frequency be that high with no cooling.. not even any kind of heat sink, guessing its about 400MHz and 2 core like the leaked specs but we will have to wait and see... either way my point is at least "ARM 11" should be added.

Anonymous 22:40 7 March 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.112.228 (talk)

Like anything else, you're gonna need a source. Sergecross73 msg me 01:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Notice how the CPU says "Nintendo 1048 0H ARM" that is what they found in the teardown.. but another teardown found this...

so.. if one as 1048 0H ARM and this one is 1037 21 ARM clearly there are some different versions going around.. could be different for the 3 different region machines they're doing. who knows, either way the 3DS comparison section with the CPU should just say ARM or Nintendo ARM, minus the 1048 0H bit.. one teardown said the 1048 0H is an ARM 11 but as i cant find the page to cite.. just ARM will have to do.

--VVikipedia343 (talk) 07:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Locked page

I'ts no surprise its locked again. But why is it locked this time? Is it because of one specific edit. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 17:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism organized by 4chan. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 17:24, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Why do people need to vandalize? If they don't like the Nintendo 3DS, don't buy it.70.44.153.248 (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2011 (UTC)Ethan

Yeah I know. Why do people waste there time to vandalize. I mean people will just undo it. So why would they waste there time. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 17:54, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)WP:NOTAFORUM. Please, go elsewhere to ponder the way the internet works. Once again, you've veered off topic... Sergecross73 msg me 17:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I remember a while ago the Wii article use to have a thing that you couldn't change it in till someone checked what you where changing. I think thats what this page needs. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 17:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh wait the Wii page still has it, but I still think this article needs that. I think that would be better then it being locked. Is there anyway we can do that. -Bradford 24.115.88.249 (talk) 18:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Release date

I don't understand something about this article. I mean it comes out in the UK too. But its not listed in the infobox. And I'm sure the 3DS comes in many other countries too. But why aren't they listed. 173.86.28.202 (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC) Greg

It lists the release dates for the North America, Europe (where the UK is), Australasia, and Japan. The dates are limited to those four for the sake of not crowding every video game article with long lists of release dates. And that already accounts for a large part of the world. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 17:03, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks stickman 173.86.28.202 (talk) 17:11, 14 March 2011 (UTC) Greg

How do I edit this?

I finally got an account, and of course it still won't let me edit the page. But I found out that new members can't edit it either. What do I do to be able to edit it? TheBradford (talk) 23:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

You're not autoconfirmed. We call users editors, not members. To edit, use Template:Edit semi-protected.Jasper Deng (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh I see. It says I have to had my account for at least 4 days and I need to make 10 edits. TheBradford (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

UK sales

I found out that this is the most pre-ordered console ever in the UK, and I think it should be mentioned in the article. And i have a source: Most pre-ordered system ever in the UK. And I would put it in myself but I'm still not auto confirmed. TheBradford msg Bradford 19:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

That is notable information. However, you'd need a better source. Blogs are not a reliable source, especially this one. It's just a random kid who writes his opinions or forwards news from other sites. Find a better source (if it's true I'm sure it's all over the internet) and it'd be good though. Sergecross73 msg me 19:36, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I guess your right, it probably isn't the best source. I'll try to find a better one. TheBradford msg Bradford 19:41, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay I found a new source. TheBradford msg Bradford 19:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Um, I'm unfamiliar with that website. Someone else can confirm whether or not they are wikipedia reliable. If it's not, sometimes your best bet is sticking to well known websites. You know, Gamespot, IGN, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 20:17, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

This should be a much better source http://www.gamespot.com/news/6304525.html User:Crankwhiteyeti —Preceding undated comment added 20:22, 18 March 2011 (UTC).

Yes, this is more along the lines of what is best. Thanks. I added it to the article under the Pre-launch section. Sergecross73 msg me 23:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Just to note that on that blog, there's actually a source as to where he got that information. So it's actually a good source of information, as they take the info from reliable sites. 24.191.118.4 (talk) 17:48, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Then the reliable source it came from should be used, not the blog itself. The blog was sourced from another blog, "My Nintendo News", which was sourced from CVG, which is in fact a reliable source. That could be used, but we've already found the Gamespot one, so it's not really needed anymore... Sergecross73 msg me 19:42, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Was the DS Lite REALLY discontinued?

I've read in edit history before that it was unsourced, but I won't take any chances reverting it. Railer-man (talk) 01:58, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I've already reverted it. There were no sources on it. Unless I've been completely oblivious to any recent DS news... TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 02:05, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Definitely fake. Not only is it something that'd probably make headlines (in the video game world), they just recently announced a new color. It's for taiwan, but still, show's it's not discontinued in general. http://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/16/champagne-gold-ds-lite-is-just-for-taiwan/# Sergecross73 msg me 02:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Definitely still in production, reverted.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 19:29, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

VRAM

Considering the 3DS info is TBA, and the DS info doesn't have a source, I feel like it should be deleted. Right now it offers nothing and only clutters a chart that's already getting to be kind of cluttered... Sergecross73 msg me 02:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

look here "The 656 KiB VRAM are accessable as nine banks with different sizes and purposes" iv added the source.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 19:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Does that have a source though? Because all you did is link to a wiki- offshoot, which in itself is not a reliable source...Sergecross73 msg me 19:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

well given that nintendo dont release details usually.. other than someone decompiling DS games and code.. this is about as official as it gets... we KNOW this is the amount from the broken down game coding setting the allocated amount of ram and by breaking down the ds eeprom too. so thats about official as it gets unfortunately.. doubt ninty is gonna show the coding of the console to people so its left to random people like this to do it.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 14:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's useful for real life, but as far as wikipedia goes, it fails WP:RS and WP:VERIFY, and should be removed unless a reliable source can be found... Sergecross73 msg me 14:51, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well as far as a reliable source is concerned. people decrypting the coding of the console to discover is is pretty reliable... there are various rom and eeprom/firmware hacking sites that would back this up but the problem is as its not a site like nintendo.com or ifixit thats considered mainstream or official it could be dismissed... never the less these people have done this and we now KNOW that its correct.. id say its a good enough source as there is never going to be a better one unless nintendo suddenly starts releasing all the hardware details of everything they sell.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 14:59, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, the "This is as good as it'll get" argument is flawless logic for real life, not good enough for Wikipedia. It needs a better source. You cannot use a "DS wiki" as a source. Sergecross73 msg me 15:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, found This. an introduction to DS programming, if you download the manual it also describes how to code the memory banks for software to allocate code in it.. and its the same amount as the other article says.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 15:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

The best source for GBA and DS technical specs is gbatek by Martin Korth, author of the No$gba emulator. Another source is libnds, a library used by the DS homebrew community. This is the only info you'll get without working for a certified Nintendo developer and signing an NDA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.222.27.78 (talk) 20:08, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Release Countdown

Someone added it to the article. Is that really appropriate? I've never seen it on another article before, but I don't know any policy either way on that one, so I figured I'd mention it before reverting/deleting...Sergecross73 msg me 21:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I've already gotten rid of it. What surprised me was that the WP markup language supported that sort of thing. Its usage isn't made clear on its page, but I'm guessing that it's supposed to go on user pages. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:44, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that was the very reason I hesitated, that it was in fact possible to do. Sergecross73 msg me 21:50, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the issue, its informative, it works in wiki's coding so they obviously put the ability to have countdowns for a reason and what better use than the launch countdown of a console? i don't get why you want rid of it... once the consoles out in the listed regions it could be removed, but right now, as this article is about information on the console, a countdown makes sense... like a live encyclopaedia, this is the internet after all. il revert it for now unless someone has a genuine reason for removing it.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 14:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I dont' know, it doesn't look very "Encyclopedic". It does seem more like something that should go on a user page or something. And is it really necessary? I'm very excited about it's release, but I don't need a countdown to remind me it's out next Sunday...>_> Sergecross73 msg me 15:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

True its not something Needed, but then again they never are, movies, games, consoles.. hell the new year.. they use them in various forms be it websites, massive billboards outside shops. no one NEEDS these things but it yet another thing we simply do, i too know when the release date is. i know without looking at this page but i wouldnt remove it cause i know.. they gave us the ability to have stuff like this.. i dont see it saying anywhere only use on your user page.. its still just more information at the end of the day just like all the other stuff on the page that people dont need to know but its interesting to have it there.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, beyond any of this, both me and Stickman are against it, as are the 2 users who undid your edits during your WP:3RR recently. That's 4 to 1, so there's also a growing consensus against you...another reason to keep it out of the article. Sergecross73 msg me 16:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry VVikipedia343, but you're completely in the wrong here. This is an encyclopedia, not a fansite. Yes there's the technical ability to use it, but that doesn't mean that it should be used here like that. A countdown is a very "fannish" thing, and Wikipedia is for facts. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I know it'd be cool to add that feature into 3DS page... So hey why not you add anymore cool and useless features to make 3DS page look fun? Huh, that would be unusual, right? There has to be good reason to have that feature somewhere, but it doesn't suit 3DS page very well.Rukario-sama (talk) 16:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Health risks

Recently, there has been third-party information claiming that the 3DS' 3-D technology can actually help detect certain eye disorders in young children. Is this at all relevant to the "Health risks" section? --Limxzero (talk) 04:11, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, we'd need the actual source first before any decisions are made. Thanks, TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 16:53, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

If we did, we'd probably have to rename the section too, since, while regarding "health", it would not be a "risk". Maybe "Health effects"? It depends on if there's a good source on it though, as Stick Man said. Sergecross73 msg me 17:59, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Here is the most "direct" as I could find:

• http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/Lifestyle/Article_2011-03-18-US-FEA-Games-3-D-Vision-Problems/id-ea94efb07e5d4484bb69b3cc371446a9

--Limxzero (talk) 17:49, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Obsoleteness and Grammar

Shouldn't we be keeping up to date with the speculation, reports, reviews, teardowns, and other information that the NIntendo community outside of Wikipedia supplies? Also, some of this article's wording is a little convoluted…I'd work on it myself, but I don't have the time. BCG999 Out. (talk) 13:46, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, what exactly do you feel should be added? It's hard to answer when you word it in such generalities...Sergecross73 msg me 14:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

And from who? I don't know what the "Nintendo community" is supposed mean. I have, however, seen a 3DS review or two that could be added. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 16:55, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

3DS vs DS series table

So do you think we should split it into new article? I mean, there are many DS models and this table doesn't really belong to the main article of Nintendo 3DS. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 07:18, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I've moved the content to Template:3DS vs DS series so that we can use it across all DS articles, but I still think it belongs here. What else would you compare the 3DS to beside the DS. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 08:42, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I think by default it should be hidden, I'll change if there's no opposition (or someone else can) --sss333 (talk) 08:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Why should it be hidden by default, if it's at the bottom of the page? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 09:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it sould be hidden either. As far as it being both in template form and in the article...won't it be confusing having 2 separate copies to update/change/keep clear of vandalism? I feel like it really should be one or the other. Sergecross73 msg me 12:23, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Well its not a key part of the article and takes up a fair bit of room, even though its at near the end its not at the bottom--sss333 (talk) 04:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think split it into template is worse because now we can't reach to its editing page from the 3DS article. I was saying that it'd be cooler if it had its own article that explains everything about the differences between 3DS and DS series. But in the bright side, that table can be loaded into DS articles, though. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 00:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

If you go down to the table, there's a button next to "Technical comparison" that says "[edit]". So you can still edit from the 3DS article. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 00:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, that's what I did, that's why I had thought it was both in the article AND it's own template. It appears it is only one thing, and how you edit it just depends on what edit tab you press. If none of that makes any sense, what I mean is, I take back my original question. I like the way it is now. Sergecross73 msg me 00:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Wow I didn't see that coming! Thanks Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 00:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse everybody! I left the heading on the template so that the [edit] button will show up and direct you to the template (like how AfDs are handled). I would like to merge in content from DS/DS lite and DSi, then place the template on those pages too... but maybe that's too much? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 02:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

That's why I don't think template is a good idea because we could have taken comparison tables from DS articles into the main article of 3DS and DS series. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 03:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

No, I really like what you did, JMN, it just took me a minute to see what exactly you did. Sergecross73 msg me 03:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I've merged the content from Nintendo DS into technical comparison table. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 06:18, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Something is messed up with the table, I can't edit it. it says "(3ds vs ds series)" when I edit it, and I vaguely remember something about a template. Please help me figure out how to edit it. Thanks. abckookooman 23:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I apologise, as I removed the heading from the template itself without even considering this. It's generally not a good idea to have headings as part of a template, but I suppose we could add it back in this case. It's not messed up; you're just seeing the actual section of the article, instead of being taken to the template page. --Dorsal Axe 23:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Can you please provide a link, so I can access the template? Is there a way of making it redirect you to a place where you can edit the template? Thank you. abckookooman 11:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Just scroll down and click the edit button. Not the one next to Technical Comparison, but the one slightly below that. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 17:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Weekly Sales

Now, I don't necessarily know what the standards have been for other systems, but how much are we going to list off here? It's going to get far too lengthy and repetitive listing off every week like people are starting to do. How much do we keep? I feel like it should be more along the lines of the Launch numbers, and then whenever this is a Year-to-Date figure. Ones tallied by reliable sources or Nintendo, not editors adding together individual sources, that's obviously WP:OR. Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 01:57, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Nintendo will publish total number of units sold in like two months later. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 02:56, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not concerned about that, I'm sure they'll release plenty of information eventually, it's more that it's going to look ridiculous (and relatively pointless) if people continue to list every single week's numbers week after week. Imagine the size of the table if one did that for the DS or Wii... Sergecross73 msg me 12:36, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Because of the WP:OR and I can't find new facts about total number of units sold/shipped, that weekly sale table is the only best one we have right now. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 13:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

And that's fine too. Wikipedia isn't meant to be a up-to-the-minute source for sales information. That's what NPD Group, Media Crate, Vgchartz, etc, are for. I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't list off week after week of figures, and we need to figure out where to stop. There's nothing wrong with having opening launch week figures, and just keep that until Monthly, Quarterly, and Yearly reports come out in the future. Sergecross73 msg me 13:44, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Indeed and that's why I removed it. It'd get pretty rediculous after a year to have 52 lines for Japan, 48 for the US, etc etc. There's no reason for the info. An "As of X...the 3DS sold..." type statement is all that's needed. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Wait, we're supposed to wait for monthly or yearly figures. You just removed it because you didn't read carefully. Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 14:45, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

She removed it because she backed up what I was saying; there's no reason to post weekly figures every week. Did you even read my last post prior this one? Sergecross73 msg me 15:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry man that was kind of misunderstanding! English isn't my main language... Rukario-sama ^ㅈ^ -(...) 15:39, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I apologize, then. Sometimes people just ignore part of arguments on purpose, just to push their point of view. It appears that's not what you were doing...Sergecross73 msg me 15:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

RAM/CPU Still Unconfirmed

We've still be debating what specs are/aren't confirmed, and what sources are reliable. Well, I read something interesting today on a 3DS review from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/03/a-beautiful-screen-a-weak-battery-a-door-to-the-future-ars-reviews-the-nintendo-3ds.ars

While other companies trumpet the amount of RAM in their hardware or the power of their CPU, Nintendo is keeping the details of what's in the 3DS under wraps. I contacted people who have taken the system apart, I contacted Nintendo, I poured over press materials, I talked to other writers... the best we have are the unconfirmed reports out of Japan....Throughout the past week I've been in contact with iFixit, and they've been in contact with Chipworks, and no one can answer with any authority the question of how much RAM is in the system, or how the CPU is clocked. They're working on it, but the information is proving to be oddly mysterious.

Since this is a reliable source stating that the information is still no confirmed, I believe this information should be removed from the article. Sergecross73 msg me 16:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Well we know the CPU is an ARM chip what ever version it is.. it should at least say ARM somewhere.--VVikipedia343 (talk) 22:49, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Only if a Reliable source can confirm it. Do we have that? Sergecross73 msg me 12:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure, 3 teardowns and a BOM, parts list abckookooman 19:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Not sure exactly what you mean by that, but list your information here if you feel you have a reliable source... Sergecross73 msg me 02:02, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

All the previously cited tear-downs show the chip that says CPU and ARM--VVikipedia343 (talk) 20:28, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I mean there is a bill of materials, (BOM) and its article. Someone already put ARM on the table, as thats pretty obvious now, but we should still add some of this information to the table. abckookooman 23:06, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 204.155.60.9, 24 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} In the comparison chart, under the Status Indicator Light, it should be noted that the DSi has lights for power, low power, recharge, and wifi. Wifi light is left-most indicator, and flashes when active.

204.155.60.9 (talk) 17:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Already done -- gtdp ^(T)/_(C) 16:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

18-bit color

Older DSs' displays are actually 18-bit, but using 18-bit colors involve using several BG layers or 3-D. See [1]. There was a demo submitted by forum.gbadev.org,but that is not indexed by google due to robots.txt restrictions. 87.222.27.78 (talk) 14:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The demo is linked here: http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?p=159501#159501 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.162.100.96 (talk) 15:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Um... I really have no idea about how this whole x-bit color stuff. Could you guys give us another source that's not a forum? Perhaps a reliable place that can explain this in good ol' layman English. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 16:58, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I second that. Forums are not reliable sources, and can't be used as a reference. A reliable source would a more well-known one, like Gamespot or IGN. Not little obscure dev. communities... Sergecross73 msg me 17:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

I uploaded a new image at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nintendo3DSAqua.png which is less noisy and higher resolution than the image currently used in the article infobox. Xviila (talk) 13:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Great image, thanks for the upload. I've updated the article with your picture. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 15:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I noticed the article doesn't mention in the features that you can take pictures with the 3DS and then view them back in 3D, I haven't got a wikipedia account so if someone else can add the information as it is a key feature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.227.181 (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Make a new request. Don't just edit an old one. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 16:50, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

3D image features

Hi, can anybody please add information about the 3D graphics file formats? How can you create a 2D picture from a 3D picture? How can you create a 3D red/green image from a 3DS image? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.114.62.71 (talk) 13:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be a jpeg subtype called .mpo, see JPEG#JPEG_Multi-Picture_Format. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.114.62.71 (talk) 10:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed Memory Amount for 3DS

Hi, I would just like to inform this group that the Nintendo 3DS has 128 MB of RAM for memory courtesy of iFixit and Chipworks' teardown of the 3DS. The link for their post is here: Chipworks, "Nintendo 3DS has 128MB RAM", iFixit, 03/28/2011

I hope that helps with any confusion on the matter, if someone would like to add that figure to the technical specifications on the page other than myself (I work for iFixit and am biased, but this is the verified RAM amount in the device).

Straife (talk) 00:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Looking at your talk page, one word caught my eye in a description on iFixit: "wiki-style". That would imply that original research makes up most of the site, making iFixit an unreliable source by Wikipedia standards. Sorry. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 01:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, not only that, but blogs aren't typically a reliable source, and the information coming from an "Ifixit writer" is a pretty clear conflict of interest as well... Sergecross73 msg me 01:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying that iFixit is the source of the information, merely the publisher. Chipworks decapped the IC (not iFixit), discovering the memory amount for the 3DS and does professional circuit analysis and reverse engineering. I hadn't even realized until I looked at this Discussion page to read replies that iFixit had been mentioned 12 times before my post on whether we are a credible source for hardware infortmation. I can't debate that, merely provide you with the correct and factual amount of RAM in the Nintendo 3DS. I, and my coworkers, would like to know what a credible source on this matter would be other than Nintendo themselves?

Straife (talk) 01:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

1)It doesn't matter if it's from "Chipworks" or whoever, it's Ifixit as the source as it's them reporting on it, and it's from their website, so it's them as the source. Please read WP:RS and WP:VERIFY to learn reliable sources, and WP:COI as to why it's not good that it's Ifixit writers who are pushing for their information to be used. Sergecross73 msg me 01:55, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, I didn't write our blog post. I was merely asked by the writer to add the correct spec for RAM on the 3DS. I knew that it would be inappropriate for me to edit the article and cite the source as iFixit. Which is why I created this section to discuss the addition of the correct spec for internal memory for the 3DS. To my knowledge, no paid staff from iFixit has edited the information on this Article page all prior additions linking to us or referencing us were from third parties. I apologize that we are not a reliable enough source for Wikipedia standards, however if you would prefer a few other published sources on the matter: "CruchGear", who used iFixit as a Primary Source, or "EE Times", who relied on a different organization for their primary source: UBM TechInsights. I read through the reliable source page you linked to, as well as the one on verifiability. I could make the argument that on this matter that iFixit can be considered a primary source. Unless you (nonspecific) have access to an electron microscope, or get Nintendo to officially say "there is 128MB of RAM in the Nintendo 3DS" there is no other source of information on the matter Straife (talk) 02:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

←)Well, thanks for the information. Since you took the time to write us about this, I will see if there is someway to incorporate those sources while keeping in check with Wiki's guidelines. « ₣M₣ » 04:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but it doesn't appear to meet our guidelines. As a result, we cannot cite Chipworks through IFixit. Personally, I'm not a fan of that huge comparison template being on the articles of individual handheld consoles, but the sources brought up by Interframe are fine. « ₣M₣ » 17:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Virtual Console...?

So the Virtual Console was supposed to be up the day of release... did this happen? I can find no info on it. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 06:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

No, it's supposed to be up sometime in May. You must have outdated info... Sergecross73 msg me 21:41, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

IIRC is was a screwup with Nintendo of Europe claiming it would be out day one.--76.66.187.132 (talk) 21:56, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Hardware Comparison

Are the display measurements (in/mm) the diagonal length, the horz. length, or the vert. length? — Pan·da·mo·ni·a 23:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Diagonal. Display measurements are generally given in diagonal length. Otherwise, it would be horizontal x vertical. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 23:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I believe diagonal is used in general, whether it be handheld systems, TV's, computer monitors, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 01:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

8th Generation

The 3DS is the first system of the 8th generation, and will be joined by the NGP in the near future. Should a new 8th Gen page be started? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.16.224 (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

See this for more details. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 01:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention, the 8th gen article has been deleted multiple times in the past... Sergecross73 msg me 01:56, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

128 MB RAM

according to http://www.ifixit.com/blog/blog/2011/03/28/nintendo-3ds-has-128mb-ram/

the 3DS has 128 MB of Ram! I think someone should edit the memory section and the 3DS hardware comparisons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Supermariolinux (talk • contribs) 10:04, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

This is being discussed in several other places on this very page... Sergecross73 msg me 12:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Street Pass/ Spot pass section

I feel that the last paragraph in the street pass section of the article should be moved to a new section about the cradle, information about which is scattered in the article. abckookooman 14:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I think that the only thing that really needs to be removed is the sentence about the cradle, not the whole paragraph. (That paragraph also includes a sentence about how the settings for spot/street pass can be customized. That's definitely something to keep.) As far as the sentence about the cradle goes, it could just be deleted, as it's already mentioned in the pre-launch section and the hardware section, and definitely doesn't warrant its own section... Sergecross73 msg me 16:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Good point, it's now done. I moved the information to "hardware." abckookooman 21:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Cradle/Downloading

Speaking of the cradle, is the whole faster download thing mentioned in the spec sheet? It's in Japanese, so I don't know where to find it. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I've wondered about this as well. The only place I concretely remember seeing it was here. I wonder if someone misspoke/mistranslated? Perhaps it'll be easier to find out once Nintendo emphasizes the download aspect a little more. (Like when the eShop/internet launches) Sergecross73 msg me 14:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Error/Glitch

In the section about the 3DS vs. DS series there is some random person who strangely backed me up (Or at least trying too). But he did not have an account. How did he edit it. He doesn't have an account, and even if he did he only made like 3 edits so he wouldn't qualify. Is this a glitch? TheBradford msg Bradford 20:27, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

HA HA! That was me. I found a way past the lock. But I'm not telling you how I did it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.86.41.63 (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

While this page is locked, the template you were editing, {{3DS vs DS series}} was not locked, thus they could edit. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 20:30, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Why was it unlocked. Isn't it supposed to be locked? TheBradford msg Bradford 20:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The chart was moved to a template. A separate article, shown within another article. That separate article isn't locked. That's Ethan's secret. There is no lock on that article. >_> Sergecross73 msg me 20:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Ethan didn't "get past the lock" at all. He's just messing with you. I'm really tempted to rant on his other activities today... TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

What are you guys talking about? I'm only trying to help here and you guys are just pests. I already have a Nintendo 3DS anyway, so whats the point of arguing about this stuff? I wouldn't have even gone on wikipedia today if Bradford didn't tell me you guys were making us look bad.70.44.153.248 (talk) 10:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)Ethan

No one's making you look bad but yourselves. All we've done is summarized what you've done. You bragged you found a way past a locked article, when in reality, you were editing an article that wasn't locked. You did that all on your own. Now please, do something constructive with the articles on wikipedia, enough of this... Sergecross73 msg me 12:17, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING!!!!! WAKE UP! I don't know how to get past a locked page and I am trying to help! You guys just team up on me and attack me with your dumb comments! There must be a different person with my same name doing this! Instead of bothering me with your "be constructive" comments, why don't you ask yourself that question? Are you helping others and being constructive? I'd say you aren't helping! 173.86.41.63 (talk) 13:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)Ethan

I am constructive, I constantly contribute to a majority of the 3ds related articles. Now please, discuss the article, or complain on my talk page if you feel the need the vent. Stop arguing here. Sergecross73 msg me 13:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

"I DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING!!!!! WAKE UP!" Don't play the victim here, kid. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 17:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm done here. If you guys wan't to be a pest to anyone who is trying to help, go ahead. You can edit the page yourself, because all I get in return is a dumb comment that tells me to be "constructive". And if you guys think I'm the one causing trouble, look at some of the "helpful" comments I got from you- 70.44.153.248 (talk) 19:32, 12 April 2011 (UTC)Ethan

Dude, calm down. Nobody is attacking you. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 19:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, if you don't want to be framed for what other people with similar IPs are doing, then you can create an account. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 19:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

He actually is both accounts though. >_> He's not even denying that, he's upset because I keep on telling him about the policies he's breaking. A lot of that is on his IP's talk pages and elsewhere though, I'm trying to keep the bickering off the 3ds talk page as much as possible, but he keeps bringing it back here...Sergecross73 msg me 20:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I just have a question. I know that its a different article, but why, if the page is locked shouldn't the 3DS vs. DS section (Even thought its a different article) be locked. TheBradford msg Bradford 21:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Ethan: I gave you that warning to be more "constructive" because you were vandalizing a user page. I take it that you didn't read the whole thing.

Bradford: True. But there haven't been many problems with the unblocked table, so it's all good. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 21:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Even though one article (the template) shows up in another, they are still treated as separate articles. As such, unless it experiences the same level of vandalism as this article, it won't be "locked". Sergecross73 msg me 00:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

eShop

I was thinking of starting the eShop page. Should I or will it just be reverted because there isn't much information on it? TheBradford msg Bradford 17:14, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I could go either way on it. On one hand, it's a little early since it's not active yet, and not all the specifics are out there. On the other hand, it certainly has been covered by reliable sources, and it wouldn't hurt to have a short article up and running for when it is up and running (Which is only about a month away, give or take a couple weeks, depending on when in May it comes out.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

The release date and more information will probably be announced soon, so I will wait till then. TheBradford msg Bradford 13:38, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

parental controls

what a I want to know is if there are parental controls on the 3DS???? (PLEASE HELP) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.17.215 (talk) 19:07, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

See WP:NOTAFORUM. This is where you talk about the article, not the subject itself. Please use Google or Gamefaqs with your questions about the system itself. Sergecross73 msg me 19:15, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

System Updates

I think we should have system updates, like the Japanese page does. You know, telling what updates have happened and a little info on what it did...it may help the update paranoid people. >_> <_< >_> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.20.179 (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that is necessary yet. The only update we have had so far included one video and that is already mentioned in the article. When we have more updates it may make sense but not yet.--76.66.182.228 (talk) 07:20, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Messaging Features

The 3DS does not currently support a messaging system in the style of the Wii Message Board; the short status message remains the only such feature. What's more, I can find no source where Nintendo has stated themselves that a messaging feature is planned for any future system update, period. Why is that in the article based on that flimsy source, which cites nothing itself? 68.40.25.149 (talk) 19:39, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Noted and fixed. Thanks, TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 02:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)