Talk:Nemo (singer)

Marcel Bezençon Awards

Nemo had won the Artistic Award and the Composer Award at the Marcel Bezençon Awards this year (https://eurovision.tv/story/2024-marcel-bezencon-award-winners). For those who are able to update the article in extended-protected mode, would you be able to update the awards section to add these? Siclika (talk) 10:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Secondary source available: https://eurovoix.com/2024/05/11/eurovision-2024-marcel-bezencon-awards-winner-revealed/ Ahri.boy (talk) 11:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

The language the article uses is not accurate.

The article refers to a single person as if they were a group of people - for example it does not say "he..." it says "they..." - it is a misuse of language. 2A02:C7C:E183:AC00:60E1:9BC9:93D1:5E30 (talk) 21:06, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Please see MOS:SINGULARTHEY. Nemo has said their pronouns in English are they/them. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "They" has been used as a singular, non-gender-specific pronoun in English since the Middle Ages. David (talk) 23:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Sadly we live in a time were mental problems are celebrated and the english language is dead. Instead of adressing these mentally insane people correctly, we are forced to cater to their mental insanity and accept their stupidity, including their made up genders and "pronouns". It's sad that Wikipedia doesn't remain neutral and intelligent but caves in to the demands of the insane but that's why it's commonly called Wikishitia. 2003:ED:2F39:E01D:8B6:54E:70C5:B27 (talk) 01:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC) I don't think I've ever heard the term "Wikishitia" until now. Why are you scared of pronouns anyway? You've used plural they and inclusive we in your response - those are pronouns HaapsaluYT (talk) 01:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC) This is an incredibly problematic statement. Assuming these (queer) people with "mental problems" are "incorrect" in what is right for themselves, how does this make them insane? If they are insane, how does this make them stupid? This does not sound like criticism of Wikipedia or any ideology, this seems like prejudice and bigotry. Please educate yourself on language and queerness. Obelus1 (talk) 06:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

"they" is used in most of the cases as plural pronoun, since he/she could not be used since non-binary the "it" should be used. 82.131.139.162 (talk) 23:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Please see the link above for Wikipedia guidelines on pronouns. If the subject of a biographical article says they use they/them pronouns, Wikipedia does so as well. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 23:57, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Yyyeah, that’s not how pronoun preferences work, 82.131.139.162. — tooki (talk) 21:42, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

"it" is a singular pronoun but is used for non-human things, "they" is (and has been) often used to speak about a singular person. Obelus1 (talk) 06:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

sigh ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Name at birth

Not only for artists that use stage names but also for people who legally change their names I got used to see in wikipedia biographies statements such as "P was born as Q on the nth of...". Later on in the biography one can typically find "in the year YYYY Q has legally changed his/her name to P". Shouldn't wikipedia make no exception in this case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.252.149.197 (talk) 13:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

See MOS:DEADNAME for the relevant guideline. If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page (including lists, redirects, disambiguation pages, category names, templates, etc.), even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists. Treat the pre-notability name as a privacy interest separate from (and often greater than) the person's current name. In the case of a living transgender or non-binary person, their birth name or former name (professional name, stage name, or pseudonym) should be included in the lead sentence of their main biographical article only if they were notable under that name. Introduce the prior name with either "born" or "formerly". GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 16:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Non-transgender people who legally changed their names might not have been notable under their birth name as well. Nevertheless their birth names are mentioned in wikipedia biographies. Does wikipedia have different guidelines for birth names of transgender and non-transgender people? If yes, what is the rationale behind this decision? 193.252.149.197 (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

There is an extra layer of sensitivity around the former names of trans/NB people that is explained in more detail at the article on deadnaming. IIRC there are some trans people who were not notable under their former names, but who have publicly stated they don't have any qualms with their former names being used, in which case they could used in articles, but generally we are cautious with respect to the former names of trans people because of this issue. You can read more about Wikipedia's approach and its history, and discuss it further if you like, at the link I provided, and there's yet more information at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Even ignoring the above discussion about sensitivity, what makes you assume that Nemo has changed their name? The article text at the time of your comment already included this quote:

"my parents thought that if I was no-one, I could become anyone"

That implies to me that "Nemo" has been their given name since birth, not one they chose in later life or as a professional nickname. As such, we already have both the "birth name" ("Nemo Mettler") and the "stage name" (just "Nemo") right there in the lede. - IMSoP (talk) 19:43, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Exactly! As it is formulated in the article it sounds as if it were the birth name, though I found it highly unlikely that parents call their baby "Nobody". Moreover they gave their daughter a less original name, so I really doubt that they called their baby "Nemo" at birth. That's why I was curious if it really was the case. The quote about becoming anyone sounds to me more like a statement of support issued by the parents when Nemo approached adulthood. The article does not state when they said or thought that, before birth or much later.

I am aware that all these are just speculations on my part. 193.252.149.193 (talk) 08:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

One of the references for that fact is an article titled (in German) "How Nemo's parents founded the weirdest factory in Switzerland". It requires a subscription, so I can't read the details, but it sounds like these are quite unconventional people. Also note that "Nemo" doesn't mean "nobody" in German, that's just its Latin origin; most people's first association would probably be Captain Nemo, Little Nemo, or Finding Nemo.

It's no weirder than calling your child Sparkle, Paris, Apple, or Moon Unit; and considerably more normal-sounding than Zowie or X Æ A-12. - IMSoP (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

No, in my opinion it is weirder. Because it has this derogatory, demeaning connotation, "nobody". "Sparkle" is positive, "Paris" was typically associated with glamour, "city of love" etc, "Apple" with a glamourous company, or glamorous New York, or red, sweet, juicy, tentation, so these names, as weird as they may be, have positive connotations. I don't know about Little Nemo or Finding Nemo, but Captain Nemo was definitely chosen to hint to its Latin meaning.

The argument that "Nemo" does not mean "nobody" in German does not hold, in my opinion, especially because of the quote about being no-one, becoming anyone. Assuming that it were the parents who chose the name, they were well aware of its meaning. (Again, my speculations.)

So I suppose "Nemo" is self-ironic, and the statement of choosing such a name is somehow similar to some feminists proudly calling themselves "sluts", I mean taking a term with a negative connotation and appropriating it with pride. I find "Nemo" typical for a chosen name, not for one given by parents. (And yet again, my speculations.) 193.252.149.193 (talk) 11:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@193.252.149.193 You admit that you are speculating, and it is getting a bit weird. There is no reason to assume Nemo has changed their name, and if they did, it's not public and so is of no relevance to this article. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 11:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

On the contrary, there are more reasons to assume that a name change happened than not: (1) the name itself is unusual, (2) the name is highly unlikely to be given by parents given the connotation of its meaning, and (3) trans/NB people typically change their birth name. If you know for sure and can prove that Nemo is the singer's birth name then fine. But if not, then you don't speculate less than me when assuming that no name change occurred. 193.252.149.193 (talk) 12:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. We can't know for sure, but all the evidence I see points to an unconventional couple choosing an unconventional name for their child, which is unusual but not unique, and has many possible connotations.

It's not generally true that there is one single reason for choosing a name, so the "nobody = anybody" connection is just a cute story - it may even have started as a riposte to someone else making the connection to the Latin origin.

Either way, adding information on any other name would require a reliable source even if it met all more specific policies regarding Biographies of living persons. So unless you know of such a source, this whole conversation is destined to go nowhere anyway. - IMSoP (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh, and one more point: Nemo released their first EP in 2015, but didn't come out as non-binary until 2023, so it's illogical to suggest that the name was chosen as part of that identity. At best, you could argue that they chose it first as a stage name, and later adopted it in other contexts; but again, there's no evidence for that at all. - IMSoP (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

This thread reads more as gossip than actual encyclopaedic work. There are no sources suggesting that Nemo is a chosen stage name, while the other sources clearly point out to it being their given name by their parents (such as this interview uploaded on YouTube (min 11:12) given to Radio SRF 3). Tidjani Saleh (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Why did this page get unprotected after an indefinite protection…

…and given the anti-trans vandalism that’s now occurring after unprotection could an admin with eyes on this page please re-protect it? I can’t file a RfPP report as I’m on mobile. Cheers. — ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 09:48, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I've created a new RfPP now. Hopefully it will be a quick one. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Fab, many thanks! ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 12:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Unclear wording

"...in relationship with their girlfriend of five years." - the wording here is unclear. There is a double meaning: their girlfriend is five years old or the relationship is five years long 85.66.96.255 (talk) 11:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

That statement makes complete sense: They've been in the relationship for five years. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 11:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I've reworded it, but let's be serious. It's pretty obvious that this means 'five-year long relationship'. B3251 (talk) 11:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2024

change "Swedish" to "Swiss" in the following sentence

> In 2017, Nemo released the EPs Momänt-Kids (Swedish for "moment kids") and Fundbüro (German for "lost property office") also under the name Nemo (CH). 93.234.195.4 (talk) 21:15, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

It does seem odd for it to be Swedish, but there's no single "Swiss" language (see languages of Switzerland) so that wouldn't make sense. Possibly it's Swiss German? Or possibly it really is Swedish for some reason. Then again the translation "moment kids" doesn't make much sense in English anyway, so I wonder if the whole sentence has been mistranslated from somewhere else. - IMSoP (talk) 09:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Momänt-kids translation

Following on from the above, I see that someone went ahead and changed "Swedish" to "German", giving

Momänt-Kids (German for "moment kids")

I see two problems with this: Firstly, "Momänt" does not appear to be a common German word, it's not in Wiktionary for instance. It seems likely that it's specifically Swiss German, but I don't have any reference for that.

Secondly, the supposed "translation" to "moment kids" doesn't make any sense in English, it's just a word-by-word translation. Contrast the following EP, Fundbüro, translated as "lost property office", not "find office". Google translate suggests the translation "Kids at the moment", which makes a lot more sense - it immediately suggests the phrase "kids these days". Again, though, I don't have a reference confirming that's the understood meaning.

For now, I've removed the parenthetical. Maybe someone knows a good reference for Swiss German that would give us a reliable translation. - IMSoP (talk) 15:47, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah as the editor who made the change, no objections here. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 13:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)