Talk:Maiden and married names/Archive 1

Archive 1

korea

I do not believe this information is entirely correct. I am a South Korean, and I can verify that male surnames were adopted in marriage and that the children adopt the male surname back at least three generations. Therefore, this practice goes before the westernized Korean Industrialization period, the Korean War period, and even before the Japanese occupation period. There are, however, exceptions to the rule. Korean women who have professional careers oftentimes choose to keep the name they had when they became successful and/or well known. This is in contrast to western feminism, where keeping the last name is more an act of self-assertion.

192.91.173.42 15:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Italy

In Italy, from 1975 (new family law) women keep their maiden name. They can use the married name together with the maiden name, without hyphen (For example, Maria Rossi marries Carlo Bianchi. She can then refer to herself as Maria Rossi Bianchi). It is no longer customary, except for older generations, to use the married name instead of the maiden name. Therefore, the article should reflect this. --Vento 21:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

USians

About 17% of Australian women on marriage choose to keep their own surname. So it's not common, but it's significant. The article would definitely be benefited from some numbers on the various different choices as they occur across nationalities, but it's by no means an extremely rare choice outside the US. Thayvian 01:04, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Née

""née" (pronounced as either "nay" or "nee")"

Firstly, it has a superfluous "as".

Secondly, the pronunciation of all the other words in the article (or any other articles) hasn't been added, why should this be any different?

Thirdly, it's pronounced "nay". The only people who say "nee" are utter morons who need to be euthanised.

You, sir, are the utter superfluous moron. Good day. 219.77.98.28 14:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey,m no personal attacks here on wikipedia. [LTS-sLither] | ^{[t c r]} 04:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Utter morons? By that you mean "anyone who knows how French is actually pronounced" I guess? /85.228.39.162 (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Back to the discussion of pronunciation, I found it helpful to see the recommended pronunciation of this word I've not often heard used in conversations. I did notice that the even less often used "né" is not given a pronunciation. LamoniDave (talk) 10:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

---

All the women I know who changed their surnames dropped their middle names. I don't know anyone who became, for instance, "Kate Jane Smith". The new "tacked on his name at the end" that I've been hearing so much of lately seems like a cop-out women use to make themselves feel better when they go down the path of least resistance and take their husband's name.

Also, isn't it kind of obvious that if Jane Smith-Luyten marries John Brown-Clarke, they'll become Smith-Clark, or Smith-Brown, or Luyten-Brown, or Luyten-Clarke? Clearly they'll just prune two surnames from the bunch. I'd hope they'd prune the surnames of the parent each of them feels closest too (which would probably be the mother at least half the time).

It would certainly be interesting to include some more data of all kinds in this article. How many married women use their maiden name, a hyphenated or joint name, or their husband's name? How are children actually being named? And as there are now plenty of adults using the surnames of both parents, what do they do when they marry? At the moment we have choices and criticisms, but not data. Also, I don't think it's entirely obvious that people would do what you suggest. Many people have parents are are alive and active in (probably controlling) family affairs at the time of their marriage. Family politics don't often work so that you can say "Mum, Dad, John and I are using Mum's name and not Dad's because I'm much closer to her than to you Dad!" Thayvian 02:55, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

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When a woman keeps her birth name after marriage, is she still a miss or is she now a mrs.? -- Anon, August 2003

Ms. --Menchi (Talk)â 08:53, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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Double surname

If "Kate Luyten" marries "John Smith", isn't it also common for her to be "Kate Luyten Smith"? (The article gives "Smith Luyten"). Does the ordering of the two names have a significance? --Menchi (Talk)â 08:53, 10 December 2003 (UTC)

double surname 2

My concern is business related -- how names show in alphabetical listings. When a name is hyphenated, does it not become one name? When Sara Jones marries and becomes Sara Jones-Downs, is her last name Downs or Jones-Downs?

Her last name is Downs. What is more importnat, some feminist foolishness or a successful marriage where BOTh aprties are giving of respect to each other?

Please keep opinions to yourself and stick with facts. People like you give Wiki a bad name and are part of the reason I can't use it as a source in University reports anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.116.97.30 (talk) 07:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

This is mixing up double-barrelled names (which sometimes do and sometimes don't have hyphens - my own surname has both variations in use) and the custom of the maiden name becoming a replacement middle name - e.g. Sara Kate Jones becomes Sara Jones Downs but her surname is "Downs" not "Jones Downs", so she should be listed under Downs. That custom seems to be a predominantly US one.

Double-barrelled names are more common in the UK and often are made up of the two names upon a marriage, although many have specific reasons for being used - a relative of the woman may have left property to the couple on the condition that they add the surname, the women's family name may die out otherwise, his the woman's name may be rather more interestng than the man's dull one - hence many "Something-Smith"s and "Something-Jones"es, illegtimate children being given both parents' names and so forth. (Consequently it's much rarer for the problem of double-double-barrelled names to crop up, although there are some, especialy as the habit of just combining both names for that reason alone is becoming more common.)

There have been some problems in indexing double-barrelled names - I've read that the DNB uses the last part of the name - but generally most use the full spelling. Timrollpickering 11:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Men changing name after marriage?

Nowadays in Germany (civil law) it is still common that after marriage a woman takes the name of her husband, but it is also possible that both continue to use their former names or that the man takes the name of his wife. The article seems to suggest that a change of name in that direction is very unusal in the US/UK? -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 17:47, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It is very unusual in the U.S. It does happen occasionally, but the people involved know that they're doing something very odd. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 18:17, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

The intro phrasing contains reference to a "growing number" of men changing their names after marriage, "Traditionally in the Anglophone West, only women do so, but a growing number of men are changing their last names after marriage as well."

It may well be that there is a "growing number", however, the source cited does not actually list any numbers, historical or present, and without any way to compare past or present numbers, the amount of increase is speculative.

Rephrasing to, "Traditionally in the Anglophone West, only women do so, but occasionally men change their last name after marriage as well." 199.184.238.194 (talk) 23:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The external source (More men taking wives' last names) says "more", of which "growing" is a synonym. We don't need the external source to state numbers with which we could do our own comparisons, because those comparisons would be original research. I'm changing the sentence back to match the source. Ariadne55 (talk) 14:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

The word "more" is not a synonym for "growing,"[1][2][3] as one denotes quantity and the other denotes method of change. The external source compares rates in the past and present, but avoids extrapolations or growth predictions. To accurately reflect the external source, the wiki article should also avoid extrapolating into the future.

I urge you to reconsider your edit. 199.184.238.194 (talk) 22:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree, but I changed the wording.Ariadne55 (talk) 00:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Celebrity women who took their husband name

I removed this list as totally pointless: there are thousands of them. On the other hand, I may settle for the list celebrities who abandoned their maiden name after becoming celebrity: this case may indeed deserve some interest: why would one abandon a famous name. mikka (t) 03:09, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed.

I don't really understand why the anonymous editor User:24.130.117.205 reintroduced this list on 17 Aug 2005 after User:Mikkalai removed it on 03:06, 6 August 2005. It must say something about me that I recognise so few of these celebrity names, :). I think the article is more focussd without the list. If the list is judged by some to be important, then I suggest it could be recreated as a seperate list, and linked from this article. I shall delete and leave it open to anyone who wants a seperate list to make it. -- Op. Deo 09:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Taiwan

A User wrote in the article the following: 131.215.7.209 17:02, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm a Taiwanese. This double surname practice have been very common in Taiwan. Women never drop their maiden names after marriage, but join their husbands' surname instead,(as described in the previous paragraph). And as far as I know, this tradition came from mainland China. (I'm not sure whether people in mainland China still keep this tradition nowadays.)

Nowadays, married women in Taiwan tend to use their maiden names alone without any concern of possible confusion from other people. Only when a women wants people to know her marital status associated to her husband would she use the name with her husband's surname appended. I believe these traditions described above apply in mainland China and Korea, too. But I need confirmation from people who know more and more accurately. Thank you.

I have edited the article to remove this which is more appropriately placed as a discussion on this talk page. I have edited the article to reflect my understanding of this user's contribution. Op. Deo 18:07, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Has any Chinese person touched this article? Op. Deo, if the current status of the article was your "understanding of that user's contribs", I must say that you didn't understand it very well. Ok, it wasn't phrased very well either. I wholeheartedly agree with that "worldwide-view" thing.

I shall now edit the article in line with my perspective, any Chinese who disagrees can say so. I think the above also applies to Japanese, by the way. And where did that "legally" come from? As in the West, there are no laws stating what a woman must do with her name, I think. 219.77.98.28 14:05, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I have very little knowledge of Asian practices. I like your reorganisation of the article, User:19.77.98.28, however, I have not checked all the details. Op. Deo 18:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

{{globalize}}

I added the tag mainly due to the "Using a husband's surname"-section. I know this has been the case in Scandinavia until recently, and I'm pretty sure it's very common in France, Germany, Italy, etc. Saying simply "In English-speaking countries" doesn't really cut it.

Apart from the examples mentioned about China, Taiwan and Korea, what is the exact status of this tradtion in the world? I assume that among cultures where a person's name is divided into a family and a given name, the general rule has been that women change their family name to that of their husband upon marriage. Of course, many cultures don't really have a family name in this sense. Many have (or have had) a "son of ..., son of ..., etc." rule, for example.

In my view it would be more relevant to say that changing has typically been the general rule regarding maiden names, and that there are exceptions. Anyone have more specific information about what cultures where women don't traditionally change their surname? —Gabbe 22:45, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The section "Europe abd North American" is biased towards the custom in anglosaxon countries. There are several countries in Europe where a women can't even change her name when she marries (Belgium for example). KristVB 08:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree entirely. I'll change it to "English-speaking world". Joeldl 07:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Move to Married and maiden names

I performed the move per discussion on RfD#April 1 (edit sum in error, sorry). The article discusses both subjects equally (or should) and since one concept means nothing without the other, it's right to treat them together. Both Married name and Maiden name now redirect here. John Reid 04:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

When and why was this tradition created?

I am just curious as to how the tradition of a marrying woman takes the husband's name after marriage.

Does anyone know when this tradition started? How it was started and where?

If I can get linked or directed to this information, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

In Britain at least, women used to be legally the property of their fathers and then their husbands - the practice of 'giving away' at weddings literally meant a transfer of ownership. The idea that women stopped using their 'own' name after marriage is false - they had their father's name and then their husband's, to signigfy who they belonged to. 135.196.2.145 (talk) 12:57, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

It was because of coverture. In Britain until 1882, a married woman's property and wages belonged to her husband. Her husband would also automatically be awarded custody of their children if they divorced, and he had the right to appoint a guardian other than the mother in his will. A single woman, however, had the right to own property and to keep her wages, it did not belong to her father. Nor did a woman's father have rights to custody of her out-of-wedlock children. A woman under twenty-one might be under the guardianship of her father, or she might have a different guardian without it affecting her surname. After twenty-one, she was considered a feme sole, an independent adult. So while it's fair to say that a woman's name changed after marriage because she was considered her husband's "property", it is not the case that she was considered her father or guardian's property before that. Her name before marriage was her own, her name after marriage was that of the person by whom her identity had become legally "covered". Ariadne55 (talk) 14:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right that this was the legal position in the 17th and 18th centuries, but this was a giant leap forward from the more historical legal status of daughters as the property of their fathers, based on the largely Christian laws of the time. For example, there are passages in Exodus condoning the sale of a daughter as a slave, and stating that a man who had a relationship with an unmarried girl should, if he refused to marry her, pay her father compensation for the damage done to his property. Clearly, these customs have not been practiced for many hundreds of years, but they are the origin. 135.196.2.145 (talk) 12:08, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Exodus was written in 450 B.C., hereditary last names weren't used in England until the 13th-14th centuries. Ariadne55 (talk) 17:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Found something along the lines the original poster requested. It says that when women because less likely to inherit land the paternal line "became much more emphasized." [4] Ariadne55 (talk) 17:20, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Statistics

I am not an expert on this subject, but I found your article while looking for information on the frequency of name conversion among women in different careers in the United States (particularly scientific research careers). If you know of any resources that would be useful to that sort of application, I would love to see them added to the article. If I find any in my searching, I will be sure to add them to this discussion.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.174.181.138 (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The "Legal Status" Section

This is definitely NOT correct - I believe the situation is the reverse in the US/UK. I don't know enough to edit it, but I do know enough to run a simple Google search that came up with endless websites saying that keeping the birth name warrants no action in both the UK and most of the US. It's CHANGING your name that is the pain in the ass/arse, and that's another major reason why some women don't bother changing it. This is just one of hundreds of websites that will tell you that: http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/marriage-more/name-after-marriage.html The above pertains to New York, I think, but the overall laws are similar in most other states. If you go to the Social Security Administration webpage, they have an entire section devoted to all the ID you have to reprocess and all the places you have to notify if you decide to change your name for any reason, marriage or otherwise. So it would be greatly appreciated if someone could fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.13.81 (talk) 04:22, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Based on your suggestion, I kind of edited that section. The paragraph as a whole makes much less sense now, but at least it's not passing on any blatent mistakes that you and I are aware of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.164.83.125 (talk) 07:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Việt Nam

In Vietnam, wives keep their name. But I don't write well english. So if someone could put that somewhere... → Tristan ♡ 13:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

-LOL, i love how quaintly it is written in the article. Not really professional or backed up with sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.43.29.254 (talk) 02:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

France

For a reference about France see http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F77.xhtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.229.209.33 (talk) 21:35, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Removed "because..." because it is both speculative and unsourced 82.229.209.33 16:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Name changes in the United States

This is really pretty simple in theory but a decision women must make; men don't. A woman has a legal name at least once in life. First, it's on her birth certificate; then it's on her marriage certificate, and lastly it may be on a divorce decree (as back to a maiden name). Anyone can file a complaint for a name change with a court in the US (doesn't always mean they will get it). For women, it is critical they remember they can only have one legal name each. You can be born Jane Smith and marry John Doe. If you legally become John Doe, you must then change your social security card and driver's license (and bank accounts) to reflect the change. You can not pick and choose which legal documents get your maiden name and which ones get your married name. You can only have one legal name and one social security number tied to that name. I work in a bank and I've made this point to women many times, many of whom choose not to listen and even move accounts, only to later get notices from the IRS. Some woman will change their name for marriage (and same is noted on their marriage certificate); but then never change the name on their social security card or driver's license. With the latter two pieces, you can get a Passport too but the documents would be wrong. You could open a bank account with just the driver's license, but the bank will report any interest earns to the IRS under the social. If the couple file jointly as Mr. and Mrs. the IRS won't know to cross reference. The W9s go back to the bank, and the bank can institute back up witholdings. You don't want to mess with this stuff. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal. Each living person gets only one legal name which is noted to be a 'legal' name for a reason. Each legal name has only one registered social security number attached to it. It is the person's responsibility, who goes through a name change, to follow up with SS and motor vehicle.

The article says:

In many countries, including the United States, a legal record must be filed in order to make this name change, which increases the level of complexity.

I do not believe this is strictly true. In the common-law states (that is, every state except Louisiana), it's my understanding that it is at least theoretically possible to change your name simply by deciding that your name is now different, and convincing people to call you by the new one. Supposedly this is supposed to be what has always happened, in theory, when a married woman takes her husband's surname -- there doesn't need to be any statute law about it (though some states may very well have such laws, redundantly). --Trovatore 01:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You may legally simply adopt a new name (for any reason), but that doesn't mean that credit card companies, for example, will jump on board. They have to be notified. So does Social Security. So does the DMV. So does your bank. So does your car insurance, and you will have to change the name on your car title as well. So does HR at your work if you would like for your checks to a) be in your new name or more importantly b) match your SS card. So do the good people in charge of voter registration. If you would like a new passport, that's another process. And so on.

In short, you can use a new name on Christmas cards and stationery and invitations, and on an email address, and as a publishing by-line, but for anything legal you have to use your legal name, and legal authorities have to be notified.

Women could change their names with little effort up until the 60s because up until then married women could not get bank accounts of their own, or credit cards in their own name, and most of them didn't work. When you don't have a job, a bank account, a credit card, or a car, name-changing is very simple. Ricardiana (talk) 17:17, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

History ?

Does anyone know when this practice arose in various countries? While researching my German ancestors, I noticed that before about 1820 a married woman was never listed with her husband's surname. At most, it would be 'Jane Doe the wife of John Smith'. After about 1850, most records seemed to be 'Jane Smith'. PaleWhaleGail (talk) 23:21, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Intro Awkwardness

"Historically, a woman in England would assume her new husband's family name (or surname) after marriage to him, and this remains common practice in England today as well as in countries where English is spoken, including Australia, New Zealand, Gibraltar, Falkland Islands, Northern Ireland, the English-speaking provinces of Canada, and the United States. United States law does not require a woman to change her name upon marriage."

Why is that last bit there? It seems to imply that the US contrasts the other countries listed by NOT requiring a woman change her name, which is certainly untrue. Why list that information for only the US?

It's quite incorrect to say that you need to apply to change your name after marriage in Canada, and I'm sure in many of the other countries too.

Also, this discussion contains a few inappropriate comments. I am unfamiliar with how one flags a comment for a moderator. This whole article and discussion section really needs some attention though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.93.159 (talk) 17:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I also noticed awkwardness in the intro. The last sentence of the intro mentions men changing names as well as women. But, the previous sentence indicates "anyone who either marries or divorces may change her name if she wishes." (emphasis added) I don't know if there's a legal basis for this unexplained inconsistency, so I don't feel I know enough to attempt to clear up this awkwardness. LamoniDave (talk) 10:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Celebrities

should it be worth mentioning that alot of female celebrities do not change there last name when getting married? (example, Katie Holmes instead of Katie Cruise, Avril Lavigne instead of Avril Whibley, ect, ect..)[LTS-sLither] | ^{[t c r]} 04:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne did change her name to Avril Whibley. See the link next to her name on her page for an interview in which she mentions the name change. Also, didn't Katie Holmes make a statement before her wedding that she would be changing her name? Her page doesn't mention it, so maybe she changed her mind. Still, I don't think it would be a good idea to add celebrities to this page. The Family name page already gets bogged down in people adding their own surnames as examples, imagine what this page would be like if everyone started adding their favorite stars. Ariadne55 (talk) 06:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There are several issues here:

• Celebrities who change their legal name but continue to use their maiden name, or at least pre-marriage name, in public (Lavigne is an example of this, and it is probably quite common). Pat Benatar springs to mind, although Benatar was her previous married name; Madonna (entertainer) apparently likes to be called Ritchie under some circumstances, but she doesn't exactly use her surname anyway.
• Celebrities who adopt a double surname. Examples include Farrah Fawcett, Chris Evert, and Joanne Whalley, who were known by the double-barreled names Farrah Fawcett-Majors, Chris Evert Lloyd, and Joanne Whalley-Kilmer, during their marriages. Washington mayor Sharon Pratt Kelly is a sort-of example.
• Full name changes, in which a celebrity starts to use a new surname publicly, seem rarer; I can think of Roseanne Barr (previously Arnold) and a couple of non-English-speaking examples (Verona Pooth, Charlotte Perrelli, Tooske Ragas).

While the above generally applies to women, there are occasionally male examples, such as Jack White. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 07:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Middle name

I modified the claim that a woman normally takes her maiden name as her middle name because I'm not convinced it's normal. I at first though it wasn't common so removed the sentence completely but realise on further thought there are quite a number of cases so I just reworded it to sometimes. However there are also quite a number of cases where's it's not done so I'm not convinced it's 'normal'. E.g. Margaret Thatcher the example we give did not do it. Also some just add the husband's surname keeping any existing middle name/s and their maiden name as another middle name e.g. Madonna (entertainer). Obviously sources should help to resolve the matter (preferably those with a worldwide view in case there is e.g. difference in the Commonwealth vs US practice) Nil Einne (talk) 22:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

In the US, of women who take their husband's last name (and who don't want two middle names), about half drop their middle name and half drop their birth surname. The problem is that it's deeply regional. So whichever part of the US one lives in, one or the other will seem "normal". A source for this is going to be tough to find, because middle names are so rarely discussed in newspapers and books. Still, it will be interesting to try. Ariadne55 (talk) 23:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Found a source and it's actually lower than I thought. Looks like about 25% of U.S. women who take their husband's name also move their birth name to the middle spot. Ariadne55 (talk) 14:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Swedish

Can we get someone with a knowledge of Swedish marriage practices to glance at the Swedish paragraph? There's a number of claims made there that lack backing citations and appear to be based on impressions. If we could find someone with some hard numbers and publications to back them up, that would be great. Thanks. Melkahb (talk) 15:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I have no references, but I can say that

Until recently, surnames ending with "-dotter" ("daughter of" in English) were not so common, but recent legislation allows any daughter to take her mother's or father's name and add "-dotter" as a surname.

is severely dated. I have a personal acquaintance who changed her name according to the "-dotter" pattern more than twenty years ago. 88.77.156.216 (talk) 02:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

"Née" -- Seriously, this time

I've essentially rewritten the lead secn, tho using lots of phrases and i think dropping no assertions except the implication that "maiden name" is interchangeable with "née", whose contrary i have provided a ref for.
This adds up to a lot of what i think would be called word-usage content; i know that despite the long-standing Fuck and Nigger and probably others, there have been objections to word-usage articles. Perhaps they do not extend to word-usage sections in a larger article (such as, in this case, one) about a social practice whose linguistic form belies its weighty psychological and social significance. (I can't remember whether it's more about patrilocal or patrilineal practice.) In any case, i'm not here to argue for the inclusion of this expanded coverage so much on the basis that we need to cover the usage issues, as on the basis that if we are going to cover the usage at all, it has to be correct, which is hard to imagine if it's not thoro.
I don't intend to advocate for retention if the usage material is removed, but if for instance it's partially removed, or removed and later replaced with a treatment as sloppy (or perhaps, well, shopworn) as what i've replaced, i expect to respond by either removing it completely, or substantially restoring what i'm about to contribute.
--Jerzy•t 06:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Jerzy - I don't have any objection to discussing nee and ne, but I do have a question - in the section on the term birth name, you say that the birth name "is thus likely to lack the permitted in the use of the loan-words née and né." What is "the permitted"? Is a word missing? Ricardiana (talk) 17:01, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

• Yup, i recall writing that part, then decided to change, piecemeal, the syntax and probably the missing word (to or form something like "the latitude permitted..."), in the sense that the loan-words literally imply birth name, but for English-monolinguals, that restriction is not explicit and in fact is not respected (i recall a dictionary entry that gave renaming a sports team as a use of née, and i think a comic referred to someone like Liz Taylor with something like "Liz Taylor, née Burton, née xxx, née Burton, née Taylor". But "birthname" is much harder to ignore.
  You're right, i left it half fixed. I'd prefer to be excused from repairing it, but if asked i'll own up to the responsibility.
  --Jerzy•t 13:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
  

Hi; I rewrote the sentence based on your explanation, or rather my understanding of it. Please take a look and see what you think; maybe it needs to be changed more. Thanks, Ricardiana (talk) 21:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Redaloes, give it up already!

Seriously, man! We understand your opinion. Quit putting it on this page; it doesn't belong in a Wikipedia article. Ricardiana (talk) 22:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Scandinavia

Most of the Scandinavia section is about Sweden, with a few sentences about Iceland. I'm Finnish and I don't know anyone who has kept their maiden name as a middle name. The most common practice for women is to take their husband's surname, some keep their maiden name and some (including my mom) combine both surnames. An example of this would be "Hakala-Kalliola", where either "Hakala" or "Kalliola" is the maiden name. "Hakala-Kalliola" would be the person's new surname, and "Hakala" wouldn't be in any way separate of the surname. Maiden names as middle names can exist in Finland, but as I said, I don't know anyone who has done this. 83.150.124.71 (talk) 03:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

===

to whoever wtote the above: Iceland and Finland are NOT part of Scandinavia. If you were Finnish, you'd know that.

Indian Christians

I do not know which Christian community is referred to in this article, but among Tamil Christians, and many Tamil and Kannadiga Hindus, names follow a custom similar to Icelanders. However, the given name is by convention the last part of the full name, while the 'surname' is the first part. Therefore, the father of Rayyappan Madalai Muthu is Sebastian Rayappan, who father was Selvaraj Rayappan. In this case, the given names are Madalai Muthu, Rayappan, and Sebastian.

In the even of marriage, the husband's first name becomes the new surname. Therefore Madalai Muthu Soosaiammal may marry Selvaraj Joseph and thereafter would go by Joseph Soosaiammal. Hindus in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu typically follow the same convention.

I am not sure how to edit the line referring to Christians, but I noted that the Southern naming convention, and southern Christians' conventions are not really well delineated in this article.

Martalli (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

India

A Society or a Family system cannot survive for long with out culture, traditions and customs. In India, rich culture is the secret of the strongest family system. Unfortunately the growth of Fashionable life style, individual freedom, Economical freedom, feminism, and women empowerment and education made the youth to question the culture. A Society needs a rich culture in order to be secured and to flourish for ever.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Redaloes (talk • contribs) 07:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate references

I just cleaned up about 4 sets of duplicate references. In the future, when you want to add a reference, please first check if it's already in the list, and just reuse that one. -Zeus-^u|c 16:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Italy

I've made some corrections to the text as I'm Italian and I don't know anyone who link the two names with "E" (End) but rather with "IN", practically meaning she enter IN the family of Mr. Bianchi for example. Legally a married woman in Italy keeps her name fully and has to use it in documents and legal matters.--82.89.191.143 (talk) 11:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Sociology

I think this section needs to have some references, otherwise, it seems to be the conclusions of the author. I'm not a sociologist so I don't feel comfortable editing this section. Can anybody help? Raynethackery (talk) 08:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I came here to say more or less the same. It's a start at inclusion of some worthwhile ideas (i.e. a perspective other than the feminist one, which itself is not well sourced in the article), but the paragraph now smacks of opinion more than science. Without some sources at the very least, it's simply not "sociology". /ninly (talk) 12:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

"which is itself not well sourced" : oh wait, I see it now. /ninly (talk) 13:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed the 'even' in the last sentence.84.174.13.17 (talk) 14:27, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Example given for section "Join both names" makes no sense

The example reads: For example, if "Hannah Kelly Watson" marries "Michael Errick", she might become "Jane Marie Watson-Errick" or "Jane Marie Smith-Wilson".

I don't think I need to explain why this makes zero sense, but I will anyway: 1. The woman's name is first given as "Hannah Kelly". Where did the "Jane Marie" come from? 2. Her options are "Watson" and "Errick". Where did "Smith-Wilson" come from?

The names "Jane Marie" and "Smith" appear under "Name blending"; so I think the editor who wrote this example just got confused.

I'd like to change the example to: For example, if "Hannah Watson" marries "Michael Errick", she might become "Hannah Watson-Errick" or "Hannah Errick-Watson".

If no one has a problem with this, I will make the change. NoriMori (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2009 (UTC) no problems wikipedia (talk) 11:51, 9 november 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.151.158 (talk)

globalize

I think that this article confuses the reader to assume that adoption of the husband's surname is the norm with a few countries as the exception. You must read far into the article to find that "not all countries" do this. It should be more organized, and explain in the introduction that this position is far from universal. I don't think my english is good enough to do it myself, though...

What in the world is a maiden name I still dont understand! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.222.233 (talk) 01:27, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The word is usually spelt without the accent over the e and I've never heard it pronounced "nay" but always "nee". I appreciate that the French pronunciation would be "nay" but is the anglicised form still pronounced that way? Richerman (talk) 13:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Source of some information about naming in the EU

The surname of married women in the European Union has information about both practices and attitudes in many EU countries, including some not well covered in this article Thayvian 12:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

With regards to taxpayers- especially in the US: This is really pretty simple in theory but a decision women must make; men don't. A woman has a legal name at least once in life. First, it's on her birth certificate; then it's on her marriage certificate, and lastly it may be on a divorce decree (as back to a maiden name). Anyone can file a complaint for a name change with a court in the US (doesn't always mean they will get it). For women, it is critical they remember they can only have one legal name each. You can be born Jane Smith and marry John Doe. If you legally become John Doe, you must then change your social security card and driver's license (and bank accounts) to reflect the change. You can not pick and choose which legal documents get your maiden name and which ones get your married name. You can only have one legal name and one social security number tied to that name. I work in a bank and I've made this point to women many times, many of whom choose not to listen and even move accounts, only to later get notices from the IRS. Some woman will change their name for marriage (and same is noted on their marriage certificate); but then never change the name on their social security card or driver's license. With the latter two pieces, you can get a Passport too but the documents would be wrong. You could open a bank account with just the driver's license, but the bank will report any interest earns to the IRS under the social. If the couple file jointly as Mr. and Mrs. the IRS won't know to cross reference. The W9s go back to the bank, and the bank can institute back up witholdings. You don't want to mess with this stuff. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal. Each living person gets only one legal name which is noted to be a 'legal' name for a reason. Each legal name has only one registered social security number attached to it. It is the person's responsibility, who goes through a name change, to follow up with SS and motor vehicle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.122.115 (talk) 01:09, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Spain

I´m spanish. Zapatero isn´t prime minister, he is president.

In English, the terms "Spanish President" or "President of Spain" refer exclusively to a head of state, ie Presidents during the First or Second Republic. The "Presidente del Gobierno" is called the "Prime Minister" or the "President of the Government" in formal contexts. See Prime Minister of Spain. 70.29.145.9 (talk) 12:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Traditional arguments from scholars

This whole section of the article is dubious (what scholars?) but the final paragraph (as below) is particularly non-encyclopedic.

Educated women are destroying family systems and violating a beautiful ancient custom??

Eek. Hope someone re-thinks this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.101.95.75 (talk) 17:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

China

We seem to be in need a of a bit of advice in how to write the China section. (Seeing someone had been calling for someone Chinese up there in the Taiwan discussion, I hope this might be of help:)

In the traditional China, there never existed such things as a "Mrs. Li-Wu". If a Wu marries into the family of Li, she is just known as Mrs. Wu (not Mrs. Li). This same applies to any title, i.e. Professor Wu, Dowager Mrs. Wu, Officer Wu, etc. Anything related to her, such as her works, are termed as Works by the Wu (or Wu Shi), too. For women in the low class, some of them do not have a title, or a name, so they prefixed the husband's surname just to make it longer and more recognizable (I think that's what the previous person means by Mrs. Li-Wu, however it is just Li-Wu as a name, no "Mrs", when it comes to Mrs it is always followed by her own surname.)

Yeah right I mentioned "surname". The concept of surname in China is different from other parts of the world. Women are never known to hold their husband's surname. When you ask Li-Wu, or Mrs. Wu, what her surname is, the answer is always Wu.

However Hongkong (and maybe Taiwan?), and China several decades ago, was under Western influence and started calling their ladies Mrs. Li. It had not been able to be reverted since. Nowadays women don't tend to prefix their husband's surnames any more, so people had to go around it a bit, calling them Miss Wu.

As so much I have thought of, I do not know how to put it in concise words. So we need help.

If Ms Wu married Mr Li, the is still Ms Wu. But she can also be refered to both directly and indirectly as "Li's wife". Eregli bob (talk) 14:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Brazil -- women's names -- data source?

Brazil What are the data that supports the following statement? "Nowadays, fewer women adopt, even officially, their husbands' names, and among those who do so officially, it is quite common not to use it either in their professional or informal life."

From what I can see here in Brazil, most of women adopt the husband's family name. I can be wrong, so I would like to see the data. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.179.21.145 (talk) 12:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I separated this topic from the previous one on this talk page. If you know the answer to the poster's question, please go ahead. Thanks. Nick Levinson (talk) 16:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Mrs Clinton

So at one section it says "Hilary Diane Rodham Clinton" has an un-hyphenated double-barrelled family name. But then it has also been suggested that "Rodham" has been transfered from being her family name to being a replacement "middle name". If it is actually an un-hyphenated double family name, she should be called Secretary of State Rodham(-)Clinton or Mrs Rodham(-)Clinton or Hilary Rodham(-)Clinton, and she very rarely is actually called that in the media.Eregli bob (talk) 14:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing this. Her last name is "Clinton", "Rodham" is used as a middle name. 70.29.145.9 (talk) 12:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Arabic Speaking People

The Sections says:

However, some women either choose or are legally expected to carry their husbands' family name. This is the case in Egypt and the Levant (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan), where Islam is not the official state religion or Islamic sharia'a (law) is not the sole basis of the civil law of the country. Although Egyptian Conisitute consider Islam as the main source of laws, it's acceptable there. In these cases, women carry their husbands' family name while keeping their original family name as a middle name, thus a woman would be known as "[First Name] [Original Family Name] [Husband's Family Name]". Examples of famous women who adopted their husband's family names: Jehan Sadat wife of former Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, Suzanne Mubarak wife of current Egyptian President Husni Mubarak, Asma al-Assad Wife of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Queen Rania Al-Abdullah Queen of Jordan.

This is not true at all. Not a single Arab country requires that, as a matter of fact, even in Lebanon using her husband's name is invalid legally and she is expected to keep her own name. Some people may use the husband's family name socially but never legally nor officially. The examples given are actually the exception and only because the husband is very famous and she is only famous because she is his wife. As a matter of fact, this issue is very new and only happed in the last three or four decades, only in a handful of countries and only for First Ladies - for anyone else it's strictly social and most people use her own family name.

Historically, Arabic speaking people (whether Arabs or otherwise) as well as the other peoples int he region (Berber, Copts, Assyrians, Persian Kurdish...etc.) all never used husband's family names.

I'll give this a couple of days, unless there is sufficient sources (there are numerous mistakes in the paragraph) I'll change it to:

However, some women may use their husband's family name socially among less traditional communities.

--Mahaodeh (talk) 14:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. This section has to be changed. I don't think any Arabic country requires that. I lived in Syria most of my life and never saw any woman changing her last name ever. I don't know if it's even legally possible. The case with the first ladies is different story, I think this is just what journalists like to conventionally use to refer to first ladies of any country. 163.118.75.21 (talk) 17:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Naming Laws in District of Columbia - Are these still valid?

Hi there. The article says under section 1.1.5:

In the District of Columbia, children born to married parents must be given the father's surname alone

The references given were published eight years ago; are the laws still in place, or has an amendment been made? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemony123 (talk • contribs) 15:41, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

That law was fixed almost immediately. [5] SilverCobweb (talk) 22:33, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Korea and subtitles mix up

Just noting the error there --Doctorkc (talk) 06:49, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Why "maiden name" rather than "birth name?"

I'd prefer we not use the term "maiden name," or that we at least explain why it can be objectionable. The term is problematic in many ways: 1) It implies that women are born to be married to men, and are still in an early/immature life stage until they do so. 2) It implies that they'll change their surnames when they marry said men. 3) It implies that women (but not men) are expected to be virgins ("maidens") until marriage to a male. 4) It implies that marriage is the only valid reason for changing one's surname; when a form asks for one's "maiden name," what does a male put who has changed his surname, or what does a woman put who has changed her surname because of divorce, adoption, because she felt like it, etc.? 5) It's just problematic overall when it shows up on forms and the person filling out the form has a reason other than female-marrying-male for having had a previous surname. 6) The term's widespread use leads to particularly annoying/unnecessary interactions, like when someone (female especially) tells the doctor's office or DMV or that they have a new surname, then the clerk asks "when did you get married?" and said female has to say "no, actually I got divorced/fled from an abusive parent/changed my last name to my female partner's last name/am trying not to be found by a stalker" when none of this is the DMV's or receptionist's business!

Triangular (talk) 02:58, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Birth name itself is rather silly, many infants are not named immediately when they are born.Eregli bob (talk) 13:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

i have to agree that maiden name is rather silly but birth name isnt that good either so we need to find the perfect word like first surname E.T.C —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.151.158 (talk) 11:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I think we need to stop being so hypersensitive to the inane. There is nothing wrong with the phrase "maiden name". If you insists on changing it then go with "single" name versus "Married". There is too much stigma attached to marriage lately as is without going balistic over things like that. There is also nothing wrong with the titles Miss and Mrs. If you object to people knowing you are married then DON'T get married in the first place! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.27.33.2 (talk) 15:48, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I cannot believe that people have strong objections to the term "maiden name"! Modern usage of the term implies none of the sentiments listed above. I believe that "maiden name" is understood by more people than the alternatives. It seems we as a society have become so wrapped up in being politically correct that we are willing to forfeit effective communication. You might as well object to females developing breasts, because that implies that they might want to breastfeed an infant child!? Give me a break! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.147.219 (talk) 00:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Usage of "née" on things other than human names

Recently I've seen the word née used in the same manner as "formerly" on products or places that have been renamed. (e.g. "The Ford Taurus (née 500) is ...") Is this this a legitimate usage of the term? Should the article make some mention of this? --208.15.237.100 (talk) 20:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Nee (sorry, can't make accents) means born. can a car be born???? 204.232.90.150 (talk) 20:02, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Doubtful, uncited information

I have removed the following text from the article because it is doubtful and uncited. If it is actually correct, please re-add it to the article, making appropriate citations to reliable sources. Thanks, Vectro (talk) 17:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another distinction is that while "birth name" can refer to either a family name, a full name, or presumably a given name considered in isolation, née or né is considered correct only when immediately preceded by the new family name and immediately followed by the old: e.g. "Margaret Hilda Thatcher née Roberts". The maiden name can also be expressed parenthetically, e.g., "Margaret Hilda (Roberts) Thatcher".

By extension, née is also used when giving any former names (e.g., companies, products, models, and celebrities who use stage names).

Historical practice in the UK

There are a number of dubious claims such as "Historically, a woman in England would assume her new husband's family name (or surname) after marriage...". There is no source for this claim (although it is correctly stated elsewhere that most women in England today do assume their husband's surname on marriage). Furthermore since England has been an legal entity for considerable time, there is something rather wrong in using the word "historically". In fact in English law a married woman can legally assume her husband's surname, her father's surname or her mother's surname. Ever wonder why that was? Ever consider that prior to 1066 the North and South of England had different legal practices and customs? 92.29.33.13 (talk) 18:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Children

Listed at 1.6.5: Why is it necessary to specify "(straight)" in the sentence? [One solution some (straight) couples have used...] —N·M—^talk 16:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it wasn't. I removed it. —N·M—^talk 03:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Search for "nee"

Page searching for the string "nee" is hopelessly confounded by the "citation NEEded" tag. If a reader wants to know what "nee [diacritics stripped]" means, but has been redirected to this article, he or she is going somewhere else. The redirect for "nee" to the "Married and maiden names" article is off. -- 75.111.18.74 (talk) 23:07, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

States allowing men to change name

The line about the states that allow for a man to change his last name at marriage. I kind of figured since we mention this statistic, there could be a list of these states somewhere (maybe in the legal status section at the end) This article lists 7 states offering this service, http://www.prenuptialagreements.org/name-change-men/ Just wasn't sure how to implement it.

InsertKey (talk) 15:07, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Citation style

This early version of the article demonstrates that this article does not follow any particular citation style. Thus, it is subject to being cleaned up, and the editor cleaning it up could select any citation style. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:13, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

History?

It would seem highly desirable, if not, indeed, urgently necessary, for this article to include the history of marital naming practices, at least within the English-speaking tradition (this being the English-language Wikipedia), but preferably for other major traditions as well. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 18:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Muslim/Arab Nations

The section referencing the legal expectations of women in Egypt (and perhaps other regional nations) is inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.91.71 (talk) 15:55, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

So correct it! Just be sure to cite reliable sources. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 18:45, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

What is the "common law method"?

The article refers several times to "the common law method" of name-changing, but never defines or describes that method. Some knowledgeable editor should either insert an explanation (with sources, please!) or else delete those references. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 22:49, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Eastern Asia

In China Mainland,North Korea and Vietnam early in 1950s,every married Women in China Mainland or North Korea or Vietnam had no choice only must keep their father's family name after get married for the propaganda of gender equality forCommunism .Otherwise it will not be a legal marriage. For example Kim Jeong-eun's wife is Ri Sol Ju,her family name is Ri.Kim Jeong-eun's mother is Ko Yong-hui,her family name is Ko.By the influence of neighbors,in Taiwan(Chinese Taipei) and South Korea,Women were also most keep their father's family names after get married.The Japan government does not recognize the married couples who has a different surnames' marriage as legal marriage.Every Japanese married couples must have a common family name. Come on ,my family name is Zhang,my mother's family name is Li,my grandmother's family name is Wu.My mother's father's family name is Li,my mother's mother's family name is Wang.Come on,these facts every Chinese know,every Koreans know.every Japanese know,every Vietnamese know.In China Mainland,North Korea and Vietnam,every women had no choice only can keep their father's family name after get married for propaganda of gender equality for communism .That is the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weidadeshenling (talk • contribs) 03:46, 9 December 2014‎ (UTC)

You've been told the issues multiple times. You have insufficient sources. The second source you present is not a WP:RS. You have issues with syntax and grammar. You overlink. You capitalize random words in the middles of sentences. You don't put spaces after periods and commas. You also are editing similar articles, with similar content, making the same errors as Jiuminzuyushuihuo. As far as "That is the truth", read WP:TRUTH. Kirin13 (talk) 17:19, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

@112.231.179.254, Jiuminzuyushuihuo, and Weidadeshenling: (or whatever you want to be known as today):

• The talk page is not a sandbox for you to experiment on what you want to add or a place to repetitively spam the same content over in over (examples of cleanup after you decided to spam the content multiple times on this page: 1, 2, 3). If you want a place to do that, go to the WP:SANDBOX, baceasue this page is to discuss revisions, not a free for all.
• Problems with your Korean name edits are same type of issues as I explained above. They include: adding unsourced content, missing spaces after periods & commas, overlink, needless examples, and adding irrelevant unsourced 'facts' (e.g. jobs & US is irrelevant to that article).
• Problems with your Chinese name edits include all the issues I mentioned regarding the Korean article. In addition, you added one ref, pretending to source the content, except that single source did not contain any of the info you were supposedly sourcing.
• Problems with your Japanese name edits include: errors with syntax & semantics, random new lines, overlink, needless examples, and the addition is only sourced by a single source which (as I already explained above) is not a reliable source.
• Your edits to Married and maiden names include all these issues. You've copy & pasted from those articles, and with that, all the problems. The info is basically unsourced and full of syntax & semantic errors.

In short, if you want any of your additions to stick, you need to get some reliable sources and fix all the errors before posting (but don't use talk pages to experiment, use a sandbox). Kirin13 (talk) 19:34, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

References

=== Japan ===

Japanese law does not recognized married couples who had different surname as lawful husband and wife.

=== China ===

In modern mainland China, it is the norm that a married woman keeps her name unchanged, without adopting her husband's surname. A child usually inherits his/her father's surname, though the marriage law explicitly states that a child may use either parent's. For example,Yao Ming's wife is Ye li,her family name is Ye.Yao Ming's mother is Fang Fengdi,her family name is Fang.Xi Jinping's wife is Peng Liyuan,her family name is Peng.It is also possible, though far less common, for a child to combine both parents' surnames. In the older generations, it was also common for a married woman to prepend her husband's surname to her own. This practice is now almost extinct in mainland China(because the propaganda of gender equality for Communism,same as in Vietnam.No man can take his wife's surname either.) ,though there are a few exceptions such as the name change of Gu Kailai, but survives in some Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan families.

=== Korea ===

Traditionally, Korean women keep their family names after their marriage, but their children take the father's surname. In the premodern, patriarchal Korean society, people were extremely conscious of familial values and their own family identities. Korean women keep their surnames after marriage based on traditional reasoning that it is what they inherited from their parents and ancestors.For example,Kim Jeong-eun's wife is Ri Sol Ju,her family name is Ri.Kim Jeong-eun's mother is Ko Yong-hui,her family name is Ko.

References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaizenmehuozhene (talk • contribs) 20:41, 5 February 2015‎ (UTC)

Two confusing sentences

I find this

"In Massachusetts, for instance, a Harvard study found approximately 87% of married college educated women take their husbands' name, down from a peak before 1975 of over 90% but up from about 80% in 1990. The same study found women with a college degree were "two to four times (depending on age) more likely to retain their surname" relative to those without a college degree."

to be confusing.

Harvard University is in Massachusetts, so is this a study about marriage in Massachusetts or a study in Massachusetts about marriage (eg in the US). What does "collage" mean?--It has different meanings in different dialects of English. As the later sentence states "collage degree" I assume it means "university graduate level degree".

The sentence "The same..." is I think very confusing. Presumably as only 13% of "college educated women [do not] take their husbands' name, I take this to mean that just under 3.5% to 6.5% (13/4 13/2) of women without a university graduate level degree, do not take their husband's name. Or put another way: When women without a university degree marry between 93.5 and 96.5% of them take their husband's surname.

There are several problems that I see with these statements:

The first is if a woman who's maiden name is Rodham marries a man called Clinton and calls herself "Rodham Clinton" has she adopted her husband's name or created a new name? What does the cited paper say on this and I think it needs footnoting, as that tradition probably covers a sizeable number of marriages.

The second is the issue of religion and community norms. The population of Massachusetts may or may not reflect the population distribution throughout the United States and/or the Anglosphere. Without knowing if this study takes account of ethnicity, and possible variations based on this to extrapolate these numbers to the English speaking world is misleading. While the Wikipedia article does not specifically do this. For those who are not familiar with how to interpret surveys, there is a danger that they will be mislead into thinking that this survey can be extrapolated to the whole of the Anglosphere (because the article does not make clear that it is a regional survey, and it is and incorrect inference to extrapolate such surveys to cover general populations). -- PBS (talk) 12:15, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090109002437/http://www.canlii.org:80/qc/laws/sta/ccq/20080314/whole.html to http://www.canlii.org/qc/laws/sta/ccq/20080314/whole.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101121053723/https://vosdroits.service-public.fr:80/F77.xhtml to http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F77.xhtml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110511084410/https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten-en-publicaties/publicaties-pb51/de-keuze-van-de-achternaam.html to http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten-en-publicaties/publicaties-pb51/de-keuze-van-de-achternaam.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111126011248/https://www.thaigeneralkonsulat.de:80/th/consular/namensfuehrung.html to http://www.thaigeneralkonsulat.de/th/consular/namensfuehrung.html

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:39, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Maiden and married names. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160102072805/http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=72ddc06b-4660-4b92-8b92-3a26ae24b377&k=5969 to http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=72ddc06b-4660-4b92-8b92-3a26ae24b377&k=5969

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:09, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Maiden and married names. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121118070230/http://www.state.tn.us/tccy/tnchild/68/68-3-305.htm to http://www.state.tn.us/tccy/tnchild/68/68-3-305.htm

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This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:15, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Maiden and married names. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/embassy/london/practical-advice/consular-services/change-of-name.html
• Added archive https://archive.is/20160327064700/http://www.turkeylawconsulting.com/corporate-individuals-law/married-women-in-turkey-may-use-their-maiden-name-without-husbands-surname-hereinafter/ to http://www.turkeylawconsulting.com/corporate-individuals-law/married-women-in-turkey-may-use-their-maiden-name-without-husbands-surname-hereinafter/

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This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:36, 6 December 2017 (UTC)