Talk:M-95 Degman

Croatian tank?

Since when is M-84 a Croatian tank? That was a Yugoslavian tank, not Croatian, and many factories produced components for the final product. Therefore, that should be corrected.

It says pre 1991 Yugoslav. Try reading the text more carefully.

I Changed it. Now its right.

Well, some Slovene loving Croat (89.172.201.48) seems to have changed it again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.210.214.97 (talk) 17:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

M84 was manufactured in Croatia, but, it is not Croatian tank, it was Yugoslav tank, true, but since there is no more Yugoslavia...

None the less, M95 is a Croatian tank, and there is no question abut it, :)88.111.164.48 16:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.nacional.hr/articles/view/10471/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mic of orion (talk • contribs) 22:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to update this a bit, it seems, new engine, new turret and quite a few systems will be available on new M84D/95 tanks. tank is still being worked on and I had a chat with someone who is working on the M84D/M95 project, and they are looking at new turret, 1200 Horsepower engine might be a standard, but 1500 Horsepower engine is also being looked at. New turret will resemble that of Leo 2 A5 tank, but nothing is certain yet, one thing they really want to avoid is ammo storage and vulnerability of the ammo compartment to burst if hit.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7863/m95degmanlj4.jpg

Users - Bosnia (220) - is there any reference on this?

"Bosnia started a own production of the M-95 Degman, witch have a better system then the Croatian version. The Bosnian version cost 50 million dollar more then the Croatian version. The bosnian version have a V12 turbo engien how give a 2,000 HP and have a Operational range on 1,200 km. The tank have air-to-air defence system, it is only on the bosnian version M-95 deman AB-1, AB-2 have full air-to-air defence system and the AB-3 have a rocket system. The croation version have some problems with the cannon, it works slow, that have the bosnian version fixed. The Bosnian version have max speed on 100 km/h and can hit 550 km in top speed. The M-95 Degman AB-4 are stared production, only 3 are build and hve a operatinal range on 2,000 km with the ACSD system. Bosnia hve only sold 50 versions to Iran, Irak and Serbia for 990 million dollar." - sounds like a fisherman's tale...

Users - Bosnia (220) - LOL, I think Bosnia guy is taking a piss, utter nonsense to all these statements, he has no clue.

Bosnia fields NO M-95 tanks nor it plans to purchase any, M-95 tanks are Croatian Tanks with new turret (about 4x3.2m) where as M84A1/A4 tank turret is 2.65x2.8m turret giving less protection than M95 tank and quite distinct difference between the two tanks.

Also, NO tank in the world has range of 2000km, let alone 550km at full speed, utter nonsense, I think that guy is totally gone where no one has gone before (bonkers) LOL.

I'd revert any changes made by him and have him report for vandalizing, but as wiki is open and anyone with the dynamic IP... there is little that can be done about this other than report him or lock the article and allow only original editors on the articles can edit the article. That would be extreme measure, but sometimes it is only alternative against spamming. Again, NO, M95 tank is a Croatian tank, Croatia won't be exporting these as they are way to expensive (about 25 million Kuna - 5million USD) and very few countries can afford this price, let alone Bosnia or Iran. Alternative is M84D upgrade program which consist of few changes to FCS and added ERA Armour + RCWS. But even these are quite expensive therefore issue of price and affordability...

M95 Development

As some of you already know, Yugoslavia had a project of a next generation MBT based on M84 - the Vihor tank. In 1989-1990, two chassis were manufactured for testing purposes, and they scored over 50000 km of test runs on Yugoslavia's tank polygons. When the war started, they were under testing at Pasuljanske Livade Polygon (present day Serbia). Djuro Djakovic, however, had received 6 prototype turret casts (only turrets without any subcomponents, or gun) from Slovenia (turret and hull were casted in present day Slovenia). In 1994, the Degman was made by fitting the new turret with original M84's electronics and gun, then mounted on a M84 hull. Reactive armor was later applied. It was by no means battle ready tank when shown (it lacked the FCS on the victory parade in Zagreb (1995), also had no autoloader). Throughout the years it has been perfected with Western electronics and subsystems, and today it is a very decent tank. However, beyond the 6 original turrets, i fail to see the possibility for any production, since the Slovenske Železarne have destroyed the molds for the turret and hull of Vihor tank, and all of the documentation for that tank is held by Belgrade VTI. Only way that it could be made possible would mean subcontracting a foreign production of turrets, but that would lead to the problem of having to cannibalise the current Croatian M84s for their hulls. My opinion is that modernisation is possible (with GREAT costs), but production of new tanks is nothing more but a fairy tale.

Likewise, the two now-Serbian Vihor hulls have been completed with M84 turrets and new auto-loaders. When i saw them, they appeared battle-ready, however they have been mothballed since 1997. So that project can be considered dead. I am unable to provide you with any published sources because this can be claimed to be a military secret of more than one country. Then again, i wonder what kind of a tank would Vihor be if one was to be assembled from Serbian hulls and Croatian turrets... But one mustn't wonder on Wikipedia.

Also, i believe that both the Croatia and Serbia have bigger problems than ones regarded to tank modernisations.

To any moderator reading this, i'd like to point your attention that article needs a cleanup, since no country has ever asked for purchasing Degmans, not even Croatia. Croatian Sabor has never allowed the purchase/modernisation of M95s.

Best regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.103.178.188 (talk) 20:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

- This article, as well as many similar articles is victim of national tensions and prides. The "M95 Development" comment is completely trustworthy and it brings us the sad true of this project. Due to technical incapabilities, lost documentation and molds, lost technology and closed factories, neither of modern states is capable of building this new tank.
Remaining prototypes are only used for building national pride.
There were propositions of cooperation between Croatian and Serbian factories on modernization of Kuwaiti M-84 tanks, but they haven't been contracted. StDeepBlue (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

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