Talk:List of Nobel laureates in Chemistry

List of Nobel laureates in Chemistry

Copied from User talk:Carcharoth - spilled over from the Featured List Candidate (FLC) discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I'm going to try and fix the image issues tomorrow. I don't have the time to hunt down sources, so I'm just going to remove any outdated ones. Just so I'm clear, I should remove any that match the first three examples you gave on the FLC page, right? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes. Though I see someone restored them. Lots of them should actually be OK, but it's the paperwork that is missing. I'll try and comment there again if I get time. One possible option, instead of pictures for every one that has one, is a selection of photos of selected laureates, as seen at List of Wranglers of the University of Cambridge. Carcharoth (talk) 19:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try and get some more opinions then. Do you oppose the article becoming a FL? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I left a question here. As for my support, if you can address (to some extent) what I said in points 2 and 9, that would be good. But this discussion should really be over there. Carcharoth (talk) 19:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

In reganrds to #2, I realize it's a tad repetive, but it's just the page titles and generally we should use the exact title. For #9, I can remove all of the unmentioned terms and just link specific mentioned words and concepts. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. #2 is not really a major thing. #9 though, I do want to see what can be done about that, if anything. I have a few ideas myself, but will wait and see what you do first. Carcharoth (talk) 20:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You can go ahead and try whatever you like. I'm actually not sure what to do yet. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Here are a few ideas:

• (1) A column next to the citation column called "glossary" or "See article" or "further reading". Whether this is within editorial discretion or not, I don't know. But I prefer it to seeing some of the terms linked and others not.
• (2) I'd also like to see the year of discoveries mentioned, but that could, again, be controversial.

Some examples of this:

• • 1904
  • Sir William Ramsay
  • "for his discovery of the inert gaseous elements in air, and his determination of their place in the periodic system"
    • See: noble gases; periodic table
    • Details: Ramsay isolates four of the noble gases between 1894 and 1898: argon (1894), helium (1895), and neon, krypton and xenon (1898). The German term Edelgas (noble gas) is first used in 1898. In 1902, Dmitri Mendeleev includes argon and helium as group 0 in his arrangement of the elements, which would later become the periodic table. Ramsay isolates the final noble gas, radon in 1910, six years after being awarded the Nobel Prize.
  • 1905
    • Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Adolf von Baeyer
    • "in recognition of his services in the advancement of organic chemistry and the chemical industry, through his work on organic dyes and hydroaromatic compounds"
    • See: organic chemistry, chemical industry, dye; aromatic compound; indigo dye; phenolphthalein, fluorescein
    • Details: (would give dates here of the syntheses, though this can get complicated)
  • 1906
    • Henri Moissan
    • "in recognition of the great services rendered by him in his investigation and isolation of the element fluorine, and for the adoption in the service of science of the electric furnace called after him"
    • See: fluorine; electric arc furnace Unfortunately, our article doesn't mention his development of a early type of electric arc furnace in 1892 - see, for example, this source.
    • Details: (again, the details section would expand beyond just a glossary-like list of articles, and would include dates and things like that, plus the publication details - eg. this)

And so on...

I realise the "details" section may be a step too far (and would start to overlap quite a lot with other articles), but I'd like to see someone attempt that. In my view, annotated lists should try to go beyond what the main source tells us, while still obviously supporting things at every stage with sources. I'd like at the least to see a "see also" or "further reading" column, with a list of articles related directly to the citation. This would allow the direct quotes to be delinked, but would still allow people to read up on things further, either by reading the article on the person, or reading about the history of the discoveries by another route (the chemistry articles). Maybe this is something for a separate article, or for the main Chemistry Nobel article, but at the least I'd like to see the linking reduced, or massively improved. At the moment, the linking from the citations column is a mix of good links and rather weak, irrelevant linking. Again, I could have a go at listing some relevant articles related to each citation, but wouldn't be comfortable linking them from the quote - it would have to be as an aside in a new column. Carcharoth (talk) 10:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I am actually really against that because this is just meant to be a list that has a brief summary of why they are given the award. Anyone who wants more detail can see that person's individual page. As well, I prefer just a quote because listing a bunch of reasons leaves it open for other users to add whatever they like. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 14:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

That's a good point, that people can add what they like to a "further reading" column and end up arguing over it. The same applies, though, to the links. If someone disagrees with the way a quote has been linked, they could come in and change that, and arguments would start again. On the other hand, if you leave things unlinked, people will come in and try linking them anyway. Hmm. Difficult one. What I'll do is double-check all the quotes, do one more sweep through the award citations to improve the linking, and then summarise my view at the FLC. I'm probably going to support, but I'll wait and see what things look like after I've done all that. Carcharoth (talk) 19:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

PS. I found someone at Commons to help with the images. See commons:User talk:Nard the Bard#Image check request. Not sure if he will come here or we go there. Do you have a Commons account activated? Carcharoth (talk) 20:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Linking in quotes

Likely to be a perennial question at this and similar articles, so I'm linking here to the latest state (as of time of writing) of a discussion at WT:MOSLINK (the manual of style guidance on links): here. The current discussion is here, though that link will need updating when it gets archived. Carcharoth (talk) 01:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Older public domain images

There are a large number of older images which claim that they are in the public domain under Swedish law. See, for example, File:Joliot-curie.jpg. Are these claims accurate, and are these images appropriate to be used in this article given the FL status? Antony–22 (^talk⁄_contribs) 02:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

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Sort by country

I would like to make the table sortable so i can sort the list by country to see which countries have the most. This will require that the "not awarded" years have the fields intact. Does anyone have objections? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2017

164.127.149.188 (talk) 13:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

There is an error for 2017 nobel Prize in chemistry . Should be: for developing cryo-electron microscopy for the high-resolution structure determination of biomolecules in solution

Already done Nihlus 14:15, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2017

For the 1996 prize, make the word fullerenes link to the article on Fullerenes. 82.69.45.180 (talk) 18:22, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Done Minor edit only. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 20:44, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Country

What is the exact source for the entries in the Country column? The general statement that this is from nobelprize.org, does not really help much. I am a bit surprised to see Hevesy with Germany, and with the Nazi German flag it may seem a bit awkward as well. I also did note that at some point in time Hungary was stated, but this has been changed by a user, who has been indefinitely blocked since then for „Persistent addition of unsourced content: Failure to communicate with fellow editors”. So where Germany is coming from? Szaszicska (talk) 21:48, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

A bit old but it remains unanswered, the footnote states that it's from the nobelprize.com reference and it may not be the country of birth, but the website doesn't have a "country" field by itself, but instead a "country of birth" and a "country of affiliation at the time of the prize". It is also a bit arbitrary how some laureates have multiple flags. Bsckr (talk) 13:11, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps if nobelprize.com has 2 fields for "country of birth" and "country of affiliation at the time of the prize", we should also have the same 2 fields. It would be more consistent than what seems to be the current policy of arbitraily using birth for some laureates and affiliation at the time of the prize for others. Dirac66 (talk) 21:57, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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IP edits

Dear IP,

please stop further disruption as you did in the main page and discuss there.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:54, 17 July 2020 (UTC))

To clarify for others what this controversy is about: Editor 177.54.76.225 (an "IP" because he identifies only by a number) has 3 times added a German flag to the American flag next to the name of 2019 winner John B. Goodenough, and editor KIENGIR has 3 times removed the German flag. The article on Goodenough says that he was born in Germany to American parents, and seems to have spent almost all his life and career in the USA except for a few years in England]. So the question seems to be whether or not the fact of his being born in Germany is sufficient reason to add a German flag.

This article also has some Notes at the top of the References section, and Note B says "B. The information in the country column is according to nobelprize.org, the official website of the Nobel Foundation. This information may not necessarily reflect the recipient's birthplace or citizenship." However the problem is that nobelprize.org is not very clear either. The page on John Goodenough [1] says "Born: 25 July 1922, Jena, Germany. Affiliation at the time of the award: University of Texas, Austin, TX, USA". I did not find a page at nobelprize.org which specifies what to consider as his "nationality"; nor did I find any flags on that site. So we need more guidance on how to interpret the information at nobelprize.org and determine what flags to associate with each person.

Have there been other Wikipedia discussions or policies on this point? I suspect that there are many Wikipedia articles about persons associated with more than one country. The Wikipedia Manual of Style at [2] says that "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable." Does this policy apply to the flags in a list of Nobel prize winners? Dirac66 (talk) 23:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi,

first of all, please do not alter my comments, however thank you for your trial to resolve the issue. The IP claims German citizenship for the subject, and because of that struggles recurrently to identify the subject as a German Nobel prize winner. There are cases when a Nobel Prize winner is fairly associated with more countries, but it is not decided solely by place of birth or citizenship, it may be more complex, which has been discussed already long time ago in the talk of the List of Nobel laureates by country article.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:20, 17 July 2020 (UTC))

Sorry to have altered your comment. I should have said in my own comment that I thought you wanted to ask the IP to discuss "here" on the talk page rather than "there" on the article (main) page.

As for the talk page of List of Nobel laureates by country, it seems to be a long collection of individual opinions without any consensus. I believe that what Wikipedia needs on this question is an agreed or official policy as to what countries (and flags) should be associated with each person. Dirac66 (talk) 00:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Sure, but anything official lacks as you pointed outregarding the commitee's website as well. So either new consensus should be built for every modification instance and/or we need more reliable sources not just contradicting earlier or other information, but reinforcing if a Nobel Prize Winner subject is widely regarded and treated as a Nobel Prize Winner also regarding another country.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC))

Regardless of whether or not John Goodenough had (and still has in 2019) German citizenship due to his having been born in Jena before WWII (and considering that he served in the US Army, which was at war against Germany, during WWII), and of which nationality or nationalities the Nobel Committee attributes him, it is a constant policy at Wikipedia that differences of opinion are not to be "resolved" by back-and-forth editing. If this edit war goes on, maybe this article should be protected against edits by unregistered users pending consensus about what exactly is (or ought to be) John Goodenough's nationality in 2019 in the eyes of the Nobel Committee. — Tonymec (talk) 22:49, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Sure, this will follow if the IP won't stop.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC))

List of Nobel laureate in Chemistry

Dear Wikipedians I have realised that this page is not completed. Note that in 2013 a South African chemist also won the Nobel prize . Please can I get help to complete and fix this problem. Thanks Einstein's bff (talk) 17:40, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Nonsense. The article cites the complete list published by the Nobel prize committee at "The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2013". Nobelprize.org. Archived from the original on 31 August 2017. Retrieved 9 October 2013., which has only the 3 names already in the article. And prizes in science categories are limited to 3 persons per year. Dirac66 (talk) 18:01, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

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Image column in the Laureates table

I think the Image column in the Laureates table is redundant and should be removed. Anyone interested in knowing more about a laureate and seeing his/her image can visit the linked Wikipedia page. Mas73Naz (talk) 06:27, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I think it should be kept, just like portraits and/or coats of arms in pages about lists of heads of state etc. belong where they are, as part of the encyclopedic content, even though the same portraits and/or arms can be seen in the individual pages about the various listed persons. — Tonymec (talk) 05:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

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