Talk:Lateral consonant

Remove "Ambiguous centrality" section

Is this not just an example of allomorphy? Allomorphy is not unique to laterality and definitely does not deserve its own section. Sidotl (talk) 00:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

[λ]

The Romance examples given for this sound are all wrong. They are pronounced with a [j]-like offglide, so probably [λj] is the correct transcription, maybe with some sophisticated diacritic for the [j]. However, I have no idea what Quechua sounds like.

David Marjanović david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at 2005/9/28 21:47 CET-summertime

Not in Portuguese. 2005/01/24

English velar nasal also has a weak [g] after it when a vowel follows. Hardly anybody includes it in transcriptions though. It's probably just the nature of these consonants. --Helloworlditsme (talk) 05:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Palatal laterals delete

I have deleted the following. This is not the right place for it. FilipeS 20:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The Italian gli and Castilian Spanish ll are the palatal lateral approximant [ʎ], which is present as well in Catalan ll, French ill- (in some dialects), Portuguese lh, Quechua ll.

How exactly is it not the right place for it? There is an entire section devoted to exactly this sort of examples.--Wlerin (talk) 23:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Lateral plosives?

The article says plosives are never lateral. What does this mean, and in what sense is it true? Affricates can be lateral, and if there is a lateral affricate, a corresponding lateral plosive could be made as well. For instance, a lateral plosive could be made (perhaps to be transliterated unofficially as t^l) that would correspond to the lateral affricate t͜ɬ, as a postalveolar t̠ would correspond to t͡ʃ. Or does the article mean instead that no language distinguishes a lateral plosive phoneme from a central one, not that none can be pronounced?

Then again, as I try to make a lateral t^l, it kind of turns out as an affricate anyway... — Eru·tuon 21:06, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I can make lateral plosive that do not sound affricated. I think the sentence is supposed to mean that no language distinguishes between central(ly released) and lateral(ly released) plosives, because the statement is followed by "and the distinction is meaningless for nasal stops and for consonants articulated in the throat". However, Czech, for example, distinguishes between <tlak> [t^lak]^ⓘ and <tak> [tak]^ⓘ. --JorisvS (talk) 22:30, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Is the 'tl' in tlak really a single sound? To my Brazilian ears it sounds just as our clusters of a stop with either a flap or an alveolar approximant. 177.65.14.222 (talk) 03:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

It is mostly one sound, though it seems it is often followed by an [l] offglide. Still, the plosive is very clearly laterally released. A cluster of [t]+[l] would sound quite differently from both [t^l]+[l] and [t^l]. It probably sounds to you (and to most people) like a simple cluster regardless of the exact pronunciation because in your native language (and any other language I know of, for that matter, including Czech), all three are phonemically a sequence of /t/+/l/ (/tl/). --JorisvS (talk) 11:06, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

This thing of native language influencing your perception is really stressing. A major foreign language acquisition difficulty of mine at present is that Japanese and Portuguese [ts] sound nearly the same as many English [tʰ ~ tˢ], as in taken or tomato, to me (maybe in part because English t is alveolar, and Romance one is denti-alveolar?). If at a fine day in the future I can talk to someone in English (even with IPA skills and all, my pronunciation is still quite laughable), I'm going to have dat accent... Is there some major language that an average Westerner is going to possibly learn that requires you to distinguish [tʰ] from [ts]? Not that my difficulty is so blatant that I wouldn't tell, to say, pizza from theoretical pi[tʰ]a. 177.65.14.222 (talk) 13:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

German does, but its /t/ is nearly always [tʰ], not [tˢ]. Ok, it may be somewhat affricated here and there, but not that often. The distinction is clear. --Helloworlditsme (talk) 04:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

German /t/ is never affricated. That counts as a foreign (English/Danish) accent as it threatens the /t–ts/ contrast. Here is a good example of that. Sol505000 (talk) 17:21, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

about lateral plosives, I think this guy on youtube uses lateral plosives or affricates instead of postalveolar consonants, in most instances of /ch/, /tr/, /j/ or even /ʃ/ (4:33 "train" [t^lɛɪn] or [t^lɬɛɪn], 0:53 "nitrogen" [nat^l(ɬ)əd^l(ɮ)ən], 2:44 "temperature" [tɛmpɹət^lə], 6:20 "motion" [məʊt^lən]). It definitely sounds different to the Czech "tlak" example, where I hear the [l] clearly ([t^llak]). --androl (talk) 20:00, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Many of his sibilants are lateralized. But his /p, t, k/ are not lateral. Ladefoged & Maddieson note that /p/ could be released to the side, but that it's not audibly distinct. — kwami (talk) 20:27, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Here AleksiB 1945 (talk) 11:05, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Im just asking, i tried to pronounce a /tɬʼ↓/ and idk what i ended by pronouncing i think it might be a [ ƭˡ ] considering that you cant pronounce a implosive affricate again i dont know what i pronounced im just asking AleksiB 1945 (talk) 04:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Examples

Not enough examples for people who didn't major in linguistics

Hmong

No mentioning of the Hmong's (phonemically distinct) lateral stops and nasals? [1] AleksiB 1945 (talk) 11:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Article Hmong language doesn't say there are lateral stop and nasal phonemes in Hmong. Instead it says: "The status of the consonants described here as single phonemes with lateral release is controversial." Those sounds are neither lateral throughout, as the sounds this article is about, nor is their status as a single phoneme undisputed. — Calling laterally released consonants laterals is similar to calling affricates, i.e. plosives with a fricative release, fricatives. (And biphonemic as well as monophonemic interpretations are possible in either case, too, depending on phonotactics and theoretical framework.) Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 14:15, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

3rd line of the second para of this page says that they kinda count AleksiB 1945 (talk) 05:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Both sides of the tongue?

Is one-sided pronunciation possible for any consonants? If so, are there laterality preferences? 195.187.108.4 (talk) 19:20, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

I've heard that that is the case. Zsiga (2013: 23) says, "For some people, air flows over the right side of the tongue only, for others only the left, and for others both." Nardog (talk) 14:37, 18 May 2022 (UTC)