Talk:Kobe

Pronunciation of Kobe

Could someone who knows add the correct pronunciation of "Kobe" in English to the beginning of the article? It would be nice to have it in Japanese as well. I think it's "KO bay" in English but I just heard someone pronounce it to rhyme with "robe." Makes sense but doesn't sound very Japanese. DBlomgren (talk) 20:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

12 years later, it has been added. Please let us know about anything else :) JthomasP (talk) 03:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Withdrawn by nominator. – wbm1058 (talk) 09:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

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• Kobe → Kobe, Japan
• Kobe (disambiguation) → Kobe

– Out of all articles which relate to “Kobe”, the city of Japan is not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Looking at page view statistics and online search results; as well as enduring greater notability, the professional basketball player’s article has more usage, notability, and significance than the city as per primary topic rules. But wait, your RM aims to move the disambiguation instead of doing anything to Koby Bryant’s article! That’s correct, which is why I would like to use this RM to clarify the significance of Bryant’s article as compared to the city. Should this RM succeed, further discussion regarding a possible redirect to the basketball player would be highly supported by me. DS537(WIR) 21:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC) Upon knowledge of WP:JPPLACE, I withdraw my move request. This RM may be closed early.— Preceding unsigned comment added by DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (talk • contribs) 02:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. This failed in 2019[1], and nothing has changed since. Justified primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 21:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per 162 etc. There have been three recent nominations dealing with major American cities that use the form "City, State" — Texas' 14th-largest city (population 200,393) at Talk:Amarillo#Requested move 21 March 2024 and Florida's 4th-largest city (population 307,573) at Talk:Orlando, Florida#Requested move 9 April 2024 and Talk:Orlando (disambiguation)#Requested move 16 April 2024. However, Japanese city names use standalone form and Kobe's population is 1,522,188. It is Japan's 7th-largest city and has a historical claim to primacy. Also, unlike the American cities, the Japanese city has little competition among the entries listed upon the Kobe (disambiguation) page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per @Roman Spinner. Killuminator (talk) 23:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:JPPLACE, which mentions this city specifically and also says not to use "Foo, Japan" to disambiguate. In addition, the idea that the basketball player has greater long-term significance than one of the most historically significant cities in Japan seems improbable at best. Dekimasuよ! 01:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

followup to move discussion

I didn't see this while it was still open, but found it interesting, so let's look at it from the perspective of trying to understand reader usage from clickstreams:

• all-time monthly page views
  • two huge traffic spikes correlating with Bryant, otherwise not much
• WikiNav for Kobe
• WikiNav for Kobe (disambiguation)

A semi-random view of the clickstream archive (the underpinning of WikiNav):

November '20 incoming views at Kobe: 19246

clickstream-enwiki-2020-11.tsv:

• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 744 (~3.8% / ~14.5%)
• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 407
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 260
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 157 (~0.8% / ~3%)
• total: 5118 to 103 identified destinations

May '22: 20030

clickstream-enwiki-2022-05.tsv:

• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 408 (~2% / ~7.6%)
• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 395
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 270 (~1.3% / ~5%)
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 216
• total: 5349 to 112 identified destinations

September '23

23761

clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:

• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 525
• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 445 (~1.9% / ~7.2%)
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 246
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 89 (~0.3% / ~1.4%)
• total: 6135 to 119 identified destinations

January '24: 30998

clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:

• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 688
• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 620 (~2% / ~7.9%)
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 289
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 125 (~0.4% / ~1.6%)
• total: 7860 to 140 identified destinations

February '24

25100

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 634 (~2.5% / ~9.6%)
• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 601
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 239
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 103 (~0.4% / ~1.5%)
• total: 6617 to 126 identified destinations

March '24

28339

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

• Kobe Hyōgo_Prefecture link 641
• Kobe Kobe_Bryant link 489 (~1.7% / ~6.6%)
• Kobe Kobe_beef link 249
• Kobe Kobe_(disambiguation) link 88 (~0.3% / ~1.2%)
• total: 7389 to 136 identified destinations

In turn from the disambiguation page, we see these kinds of clicks:

clickstream-enwiki-2024-01.tsv:

• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_(given_name) link 30
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_Bryant link 28
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_beef link 23
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe link 15
• total: 96 to 4 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_(given_name) link 34
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_Bryant link 33
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe link 12
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_beef link 11
• total: 90 to 4 identified destinations

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_beef link 31
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_(given_name) link 25
• Kobe_(disambiguation) Kobe_Bryant link 13
• total: 69 to 3 identified destinations

So, while we've got precedent to think that there is no primary topic by usage based on these kinds of numbers (I've documented many at WT:D), at the same time, the city article clearly attracts a large and steady readership which in turn proceeds to over a hundred different articles and the topics related to Kobe Bryant or beef have prominence but a largely waning one, it seems. This clearly hints that the city article could still be a perfectly legitimate primary topic and the hatnote suffices to address the usage issue.

Any move discussion would absolutely have to provide a coherent examination of both usage and long-term significance, which neither of them so far did. --Joy (talk) 12:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)