Talk:Kelso, Scottish Borders

Etymology of 'Kelso'

There seems to be ongoing contention over whether of not Kelso came from the Gaelic Cealsach, or at the very least some disagreement over whether the Gaelic form should be included in the article.
I found a page regarding the family name 'Kelsay', which includes a mention of Kelso as a place name. It says, according to James Morton's Monastic Annals of Teviotdale (1832), Kelso comes from Chalkheugh, locally pronounced Cawkheuch, Calc (british)/cealc (anglo-saxon) = chalk and how (anglo-saxon)/heugh (scots). No mention of Gaelic. Looking at Scots language I see it is also known as Lowland Scots, so I looked at Scottish lowlands, and found that in Gaelic, the Scottish Lowlands are a' Ghalldachd, meaning roughly 'the non-Gaelic region'.
From that, I infer that Cealsach may very well be what it is called in Gaelic, but is NOT where the name came from, nor is it what residents of the town have ever called it. Perhaps it is common knowledge in Scotland that it is simply the name in Gaelic, but the current placement and wording in the article would lead others less knowledgeable to believe it is in fact the etymology of the word. Therefore, the Gaelic reference should be reworded to reflect this, or removed entirely.
I will, however, leave it to others to change the article - although I have family from (and others still in) the area, I do not know it myself, and perhaps others have information i do not. Scottr76 18:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, Kelso does not come from Gaelic. That is not the implication of having the Gaelic name. Although Gaelic was probably never spoken by the people of Kelso as a whole, putting Gaelic names in articles like this derives from the fact that Kelso is part of Scotland, a nation now officially (if not actually of course) bilingual for which Gaelic is the historical national language ... this is irrespective of any particular regional history. I'm just explaining the reasonings of those who put the Gaelic name there; I've no desire to enforce this where there is local antipathy or where it is perceived to undermine the regional identity of the Scotland's eastern marches. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 05:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

In his book "Kelsae" which is an history of the Kelso area, Alistair Moffat (Scottish historian from Kelso) elaborates on the calcium deposits in the town, and provides historical references to the calcium, and puts forth quite confidently that the name came from those calcium mineral deposits. In fact, he said that in the past, one particular patch of road was chalky white. Calce-heugh,... I could see that.

Going even further back using Alistair Moffat, Calceheugh came from the Brythonic Chalchvynyd, a name often mistakenly applied to various locations in southern Britain. ---G.T.N. (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Kelso as "Most beautiful town in Scotland"

Indeed, Kelso is one one of the most beautiful towns in all of Scotland, and als the English-speaking world for that matter. Its people are congenial and modest. From its cobble-stone square, to the riverside castles, this tired man has nae seen a more beautiful town in all of Christiandom. The town features fine shops with very helpful people who love tourists. If you are going to make a trip to Scotland, you must see Edinburgh, you must drink Whisky, and you must see Kelso. Kelso is the kind of town you will think about returning to again and again, and the surrounding towns are equally full of charm and beauty. --Holydean —Preceding unsigned comment added by Holydean (talk • contribs) 01:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

"Kelsae"

I live in Kelso and I have never heard anyone call Kelso "Kelsae" unless they are putting on an exaggerated Scottish accent, or being ironic. Should that really be there? --The Cat with 2 Heads (talk) 18:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedias are not written on the basis of what you have or haven't heard. For the record the phrase is far more commonplace among senior citizens. (Sapperhutch (talk) 03:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC))

You've really never heard anyone call it Kelsae? Really? Never? Have you been living under a rock!? "The Kelsae Laddie" for goodness sake. Of course it's ridiculed (as is most scots usage) but you certainly don't have to go far to find someone who calls it Kelsae!

If there is a song that uses that spelling it would be good to reference it though, no? Akerbeltz (talk) 21:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not from Kelso, but I'm from the Borders (and I'm thirty, not a senior citizen). Not many I went to school with are still in the Borders (myself included), but if people are running around using lowland Scots as a comic device, I feel I ought to point out that such behaviour is highly disrespectful of the local population. That's how we speak - if you've never heard Kelsae, you aren't integrating very well. If you've only heard it used in exaggeration, then you're keeping some poor company.

"Kelsae" is quite commonly used in old songs from the town. I used to live in the town. However, that was a while back and I have forgotton the songs, so I can not reference any of them. I will, however, research "Kelsae". Sco1996 15:48, 23 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sco1996 (talk • contribs)

There is a link to Kelso Songs at the foot of the Kelso page. Mondobong (talk) 20:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I've been to Kelso many times from the late seventies and know hundreds of people from the town. The common language is definitely from old scots and most of the men I know always refer to it in it's correct scots pronounciation - Kelsae. If the Cat with 2 heads has never heard it referred to as Kelsae they are not from, and know nothing about 'Kelsae'!

Also, I have heard it referred to in Gaelic as, what sounds like, Kealseach. Whether the name comes from the Gaelic, i doubt. It is still useful to have a reference here though. It would have had a Gaelic name and it's hard not to believe Gaelic was a spoken language around Roxburgh after the Scots expansion due to place names and the old royal seat and main trading point of Roxburgh being situated here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.234.147 (talk) 21:46, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Alistair Moffat

Alistair Moffat is a native, a historian, and an author. His book on the town is named "Kelsae," and he says that is what the locals call it. He also says Kelso ultimately derives from "Calchvynyd." See "Arthur and the Lost Kingdoms," or "Kelsae." ---G.T.N. (talk) 01:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

You're obviously not from kelso at all, i'm from hawick and everyone pronounces it kelsae, even folk from jethart! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.94.120 (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

That's what I just said... ---G.T.N. (talk) 00:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Waterloo Bridge - Rennie

It might be worth mentioning that the 'Waterloo Bridge' mentioned in this article is not the current one of that name over the Thames. Also some mention of Ednam House (which is now a hotel in Kelso) might be worth a note (sorry - I am not sure how to add to articles yet - am still learning!). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.131.188.90 (talk) 13:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Coordinate error. OS grid reference should be about NT727338

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for Kelso

The OS grid reference is quite wrong, pointing to somewhere in Northumberland. A quick bisect gives NT727339 somewhere in the Horse Market, is that regarded as the centre of Kelso?

—Jlittlenz (talk) 21:41, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed — I've repointed the lat/lon so that they point to the Kelso Town Hall (which is also located on the historic Kelso Square), which is an acceptable point of reference, and then corrected the OS grid ref based on those coordinates. — TransporterMan (TALK) 14:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

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