Talk:Julius Malema

Ok to archive?

This talk page is getting a bit big. Any objections to turning on an archive bot? Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 11:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

I tried using a bot, but it was a fail. So I have archived it manually. Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 09:36, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality Check discussion - Part 2

Please see the archived previous discussion on this topic.

Alot of work has been done to improve the neutrality of this article. In my opinion, the neutrality check box should be removed. Does anyone disagree? Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 12:28, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I am happy for the neutrality box to go. I will be summarising some of the more trivial media soundbites over the next few weeks as well, that will make it even better. pietopper (talk) 19:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Done. Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 13:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Apeal has failed

Malema is as of today definitely the former leader of the ANCYL. This article needs to be updated ASAP to avoid "vandalism" by inexperienced editors. Sources:

• http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Malema-suspension-effective-immediately-20120204
• http://www.iol.co.za/news/special-features/ancyl-leaders-convictions-upheld-1.1227309

Roger (talk) 15:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Malema's standpoint regarding Botswana

If I remember correctly, it was actually Malema's advocacy of armed South African involvement in Botswana to destabilise the neighbouring country that was the last straw for the ANC leadership to act forcefully against him. However, unless I have overlooked it, not much mention is made of the Botswana incident in the article. Mieliestronk (talk) 21:10, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

That matches my understanding as well.--Discott (talk) 10:58, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion for first line

For discussion:

"Julius Sello Malema (born 3 March 1981) is a South African politician, former president of the African National Congress Youth League, and convicted hate speech criminal."

I feel that his being a politician should not possibly exonerate him from a mention of his crimes - I also made an edit earlier adding mention of his being charged with financial irregularities.

I agree but it should not in this case be in the 1st line. It doesnt define him. In my opinion, he is a politician, former ANC Youth League President that got expelled. BTW - Malema was convicted by the Equality Court and not by a Criminal Court. The Equality Court is more informal and not "beyond reasonable doubt". Instead it is on the 'balance of probabilities '. So I am not convinced that the word 'criminal' is correct anyway. SInce then he has dropped all appeals against the conviction and has signed an out of court settlement. Having said that a few sentences on the Hate Speech event should appear in the body. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biscuit1018 (talk • contribs) 06:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Samsara (FA • FP) 17:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the appropriateness of this for the first sentence. The prominence his convictions and sentences currently has, with lengthy paragraphs in the lead, is already looking a bit too overdue weight and detail specific to me according to the guidelines given in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies. --Saddhiyama (talk) 17:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Allegations

I recently read Fiona Forde's An Inconvenient Youth: Julius Malema and the 'New' ANC which details many (pretty severe) allegations of corruption and improper benefiting from state tenders by Malema. I wanted to know if these allegations have any place on Malema's Wikipedia page? The author of the book obviously had enough evidence to publish the book so it is more than simply media slander or unsubstantiated allegations. I found a website that details the allegations if anyone would like to review the specifics: Malema Funding VinnigeVenter (talk) 09:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, can we please have some input on his 2013 insolvency and news surrounding actions against him by SARS. 62.57.184.44 (talk) 22:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Wikipedia:Be_bold

Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 08:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Zimbabwe visit 2012 section

I think that this section is being given too much weight and should be shortened and summarised. All these quotes seem to be based on one instance of tabloid style reporting. Totorotroll (talk) 08:35, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Incident involving BBC journalist

My previous edit of this section was reverted. The audiovisual material of the incident will confirm that Malema replied by saying that the journalist "had rubbish in his pants" Gregorydavid (talk) 14:17, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Sexism and entire section for one statement by one source

Sexism and entire section for one statement by one source? Is that needed? Also is he the youngest person in SA to win a seat?--Inayity (talk) 17:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Will make Julius a African leader in 1 year

Julius is a South African leader at the moment,but with his insights and good stupidity I will make him a AFRICAN LEADER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.78.150.32 (talk) 17:40, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Neutral Stand Point

Reading through the Malema article feels like reading a newspaper, in particular one that represents the Right Wing. I know Malema is controversial but It seems like the article is not about Malema the person but the focus is more on his controversy nothing else !Bobbyshabangu _talk 17:13, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Stop throwing around mindless and ridiculous terms like "the Right Wing", meant to detract from and/or diminish the integrity of those with whom you are not in agreement. That only shows your own facile partisanship. If you can locate any POV and/or OR, then remove it/them. Anything else is your own personal business, which no one is interested in. Quis separabit? 18:58, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Quis separabit? - Allthough I aggree with the jist of what you are say, I think the maner in which you are saying it is a bit harsh. Bobbyshabangu - If you feel the article does not have a WP:Neutral point of view, please WP:Be bold in correcting this. Gary van der Merwe ^(Talk) 08:49, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

The answer lies on the tone of your response which is what is making me to be not bold sir Quis separabit?, I just feel that if I become bold and write about Malema the person, I mean add a section about him being passionate about people especially from the lower class or that he keeps his word especially to the poor and the fact that he grew up very poor raised by a single parent and this could directly have an impact on his political views, someone with your tone will quickly revert my write up. However If I need to write criticism about him I don't even think I would need to go through the trouble of pointing out that the article has no neutrality and have people like you give me a tongue lashing; I would just go on and write and no one will say anything! Bobbyshabangu _talk 13:38, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Bobbyshabangu that both much of the content of the article as well as the overall structure of the article is problematic in that it does not promote WP:NPOV or provide anything near a complete and informative account of the person in question. As such I feel it needs to be overhauled with shorter and pithier controversy sections (with a more full account of the criticisms mentioned on the current page on its own page) with more that expands on more basic biographical issues such as his background and why his supporters like him. As it is the current article has grown to become lob-sided. I do want to eco Rms125a@hotmail.com's suggestion to Bobbyshabangu to "be bold" and write about the better aspects of Malema's character as well as other aspects and be less concerned with people reverting it. In my experiance so long as the content can be adequately referenced people are okay with it so long as it is written in a NPOV way.--Discott (talk) 12:09, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Last (hopefully) reply

I am not going to retract anything. This is not a fansite or a blog. I wish you would stop throwing my username around since it triggers my watchlist. If you feel "the article has no neutrality", then fix it, although, of course, other editors will be reviewing your edits, because that's the way this interactive encyclopaedia works.
As far as

"I just feel that if I become bold and write about Malema the person, I mean add a section about him being passionate about people especially from the lower class or that he keeps his word especially to the poor and the fact that he grew up very poor raised by a single parent and this could directly have an impact on his political views"

I understand, but nothing justifies hatemongering against an unpopular minority, and the world has seen it before, with horrible consequences. As George Bernard Shaw wrote in The Devil's Disciple:

"... to explain a fact is not to alter it"

Again, you are free to edit but don't violate BLP, POV, OR, etc. Yours, Quis separabit? 14:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Not Lead Material, Wikipedia is not current events news

None of this is WP:LEAD material. It fails and seems more current event coverage. It belongs in the body: More recently, as an elected MP, Malema has been publicly critical of President Zuma, especially as regards the ANC leader's alleged corruption with respect to "The Nkandla Scandal." On February 12, 2015, Malema, together with other members of the EFF, were forcibly removed from the State of the Nation address, when Malema interrupted Zuma to question whether he would pay back part of the $23 million in taxpayer funds he used to build a private residence in Nkandla, Kwazulu-Natal. Malema responded to being ejected, suggesting South Africa had become, or was becoming, a police state.[15]--Inayity (talk) 17:04, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Racism

I think the lead section should mention that there are sources that call Malema a racist. Quotes: Chelsea Lotz asks why other opposition leaders are not holding EFF President Julius Malema to account for his racist rhetoric [1]. Quote: In recent months, one of the most extreme figures in South African politics, Marxist and virulent racist Julius Malema, the former ANC youth leader, also claimed that the current regime was worse than apartheid. [http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/mandelas-legacy-the-freefall-of-south-africa/#A0xEH9YzvLCuUbl3.99] He has also been likened to Hitler [2]. --Dorpater (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that I'm not sure that www.wnd.com and www.censorbugbear.org meet the requirements of reliable sources WP:SOURCE. The Guardian is certainly a reliable source and I would be happy to quote some comment from that, except for the fact that Mamphela Ramphele threw her name away in the last election and has basically gone to ground and no one cares what she says any more. Find some good sources and I think it is fair comment. Wayne Jayes (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I gave the wrong link. The first quote was by the journalist Chelsea Lotz [3]. As for [http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/mandelas-legacy-the-freefall-of-south-africa/#A0xEH9YzvLCuUbl3.99] and Alex Newman, they are no less reliable than news24.com that is used in the article. --Dorpater (talk) 20:20, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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iuoi

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"Shoot de Beers" song

Are there any African language(s) sources I can use about the misrepresentation of the blood-diamond merchant trading house ("De Beers") as opposed to the defeated pastoral fighters ("De Boers") in the sung lyrics of the controversial song? A quick google search com up with English language, but nothing in any comprehensible intonation. It was heard that the sung lyrics were threatening to the diamond houses rather than farmers. The section was reworked so now no mention of the song lyrics controversy remains in the article.

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2021 Unrest and Racist Attacks on Indians by Blacks of S.A and EFF

Malema has previously stated his disdain for indians but has now re-sorted to misusing black lives matter in order to get his supporters to march on Indian communities for the alleged killing of black people during a 7 day period of violent protests and violent actions by majority black people against other racial groups which all occurred in 2021.

This current example of blatant racism and potrayal of villians has victims should be included in the "racist" section on malema's article page. This information should not be removed if included so has to sugarcoat racism faced by other races by black people. They can only be allowed to play the victim so far before consequences come calling. Hpdh4 (talk) 15:32, 5 August 2021 (UTC)