Talk:Isle of Man/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

See also section

The current See also section includes the following links:

• Outline of the Isle of Man
• Anglo-Manx
• Biota of the Isle of Man
• Celtic languages
• Celtic nations
• Celts
• Coins of the Manx pound
• Ethnic groups in Europe
• Isle of Man Incinerator
• List of not fully sovereign nations
• Manx cat
• Peel Engineering Company
• Raad ny Foillan, long distance footpath
• Towns in the Isle of Man
• Vehicle registration plates of the Isle of Man
• Windmills in the Isle of Man

While I understand that each of these articles directly involves the Isle of Man, I feel that most of them are not appropriate in this section. Certainly Outline of the Isle of Man belongs here. However, I feel that Anglo-Manx does not. It should be mentioned in the languages section, but not in a "See also" section. Celtic languages should not be listed at all. It is already linked in the section on the Manx language and is included in the "See also" section on that language's article. Celtic nations probably could be included in this section, but not Celts, as that is an article which deals predominantly with the historic peoples extant during the turn of the BCE and CE eras. Coins of the Manx pound should also be removed and dealt with in the relevant Manx pound article. Ethnic groups in Europe should also be removed, as currently there are more non-Manx people living on the Island than native Manx, and is not really relevant to any article on the Island. Certainly it could and should be mentioned on the article on Manx people. Isle of Man Incinerator has nothing to do with the Island, other than the fact that exists. If we include that why not include an article on every business and building on the Isle of Man in this section too? Similarly with Peel Engineering Company. List of not fully sovereign nations should also be removed, but in its place the article Crown Dependencies should be placed, in a similar fashion as British Overseas Territories is listed in the "See also" section for Gibraltar. Raad ny Foillan would be better placed in the Geography of the Isle of Man article or some related article, but not here. This is an article about the country as a whole, not certain parts of it. Towns in the Isle of Man should be removed from this section and instead inserted in the Geography section which lacks information dealing with the settlements of the Island. Vehicle registration plates of the Isle of Man should be removed entirely and placed in the Transport in the Isle of Man article. I also don't feel that Windmills in the Isle of Man is appropriate in this section either, but am struggling to find where else that article could be placed. Thoughts or suggestions anyone? ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 12:46, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

If a link appears in the article text it shouldn't appear in the see also, so both Celtic ones are covered already, as is the manx cat and manx pound. All the specific places can probably go easily. Windmills could go in the Economy article somewhere. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:58, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. So, before I clear them out, which ones specifically do you think we should leave in there? Just so we're clear on it. I'll leave it alone anyway for a day or two, just to allow others to comment on what ones they feel can be removed and to see of they have any suggestions as to what could be included (including any links not currently included). ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 13:07, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Just the outline and the list of towns really. Everything else is too tangential or already included, and your solutions are good. Normally a list of towns would be a see also in a demographics section, but demographics seems to have been split up in this article. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 13:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Name

Is it possible to use just the word "Man" as a short name for the island? Or do I have to use "Mann"? How did this happen, that the short form has double "n", while the long form has only a single "n"? Mountleek (talk) 18:29, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure as to why you can't, but it is an unwritten rule that the island is referred to as the "Isle of Man" in long form and "Mann" in short form. You would rarely use "Isle of Mann" and almost never use simply "Man". As far as I know "Mann" is the original form which stems from both Old Norse (as in "Mannisk", the ON term for Manx, which is where we get the word Manx) and Manx "Mannin". It was later shortened to "Man" in the phrase "Isle of Man". ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 23:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a mention of LGBT rights in the Isle of Man?

Since one of the few facts most UK people know about the Isle of Man is the fact that homosexuality was illegal there until recently, should there not at least be a mention in the main article, or at least a link? Rachel Pearce (talk) 14:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That's the great thing about Wikipedia, Rachel. It's free for all to edit. Something about LGBT issues could indeed be included, and should probably be included under the culture section (perhaps under a sub-title called Society as per the Republic of Ireland article). I wouldn't focus on it being illegal until recently - certainly mention it along with the relevant references. You should also mention the current status, including what provisions there are - i.e. Civil partnerships, marriage rights, etc. if there are any, etc. ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 19:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a separate page detailing LGBT rights in the Isle of Man but maybe a small mention on this page would also be appropriate along with mentioning other archaic practices in the past. Such mentions should make clear that they are historic and recent changes - it's fair to say that, although the gay scene isn't big, such bigotry is definitely in the past (recent approval of civil partnerships created hardly any controversy).--46.131.172.244 (talk) 16:22, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect land area ranking

The main page states the Isle of Man's land area ranking as 191st in the world, but if you click on it, the linking page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area) states it as the 196th rank. I don't see any way to edit this, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svtdave87 (talk • contribs) 15:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Tax haven?

Seems to fill every characteristic of a tax haven; why can't I find those two words in the article anywhere? --Sigmundur (talk) 02:35, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Some people have political reasons for not using the term and their POV has prevailed here. Any attempts to introduce it are eradicated. It is a battle that is frustrating and so far lost. Truth is not important in Wikipedia articles when people are prepared to do anything to hide it.99.227.76.64 (talk) 11:07, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Man cannot be declared a Tax Haven as it declares all revenue and taxes paid within it. It has a lower tax rate than most of Europe. But unlike other countries, it does not allow individuals to hide revenue "off shore" within it's banking system. I would characterise a tax haven as any location that allows you to place funds in order to avoid paying any tax or to obfuscate the actual value. Tax paid on the Isle of Man is fully compliant with UK HMRC rules and passes scrutiny under international agreements. Unlike, say for example, Lichtenstein or Switzerland that have closed banking systems. ascolti

Etymology

I think the Etymology section needs a rewrite. At this time, each paragraph reads as if independently written from the others, and redundancy is rampant among them. Maybe the contents of all three paragraphs could be synthesized into one. LAMP (talk) 01:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Tartessos

I have removed the passage refering to the purported Tartessian origin of the Celtic languages. Unlike the passage about Megalithic builders in the bronze age which makes sense and is appropriate, this is a fringe theory which does seem out of place in an article talking about the Isle of Man! Taranis2010 (talk) 15:41, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Ellan Vannin vs Mannin

Danielquayle has been editing out Ellan Vannin from the lede as he seems to believe that it is a Manx translation of the English name and not the real Manx name of the island. He believes that Mannin is the only possible name in Manx. I have attempted to discuss this with him and pointed out that Ellan Vannin seems to be extensively documented in reliable sources as a Manx language name. Can anyone provide documentation that Ellan Vannin is not a Manx name for the Isle of Man? Dabbler (talk) 11:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

while a significant amount were born in England

Some education in grammar wouldn't go amiss either.

"a significant amount were"? Oh, please, save me.

I also don't think that referring to a part of a human population as an "amount" is respectful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.176.157 (talk) 17:44, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Europe A-M: Denmark;mis-spelling

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for Europe A-M:Denmark mis-spelling:"Kort- og martikelstyrelsen" should be "Kort- og matrikelstyrelsen" (matrikel=cadastre)--Bornsommer (talk) 00:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I meant of course regarding the page with the map of Isle of Man which appears when you click on coordinates in upper right-hand corner of this article.--Bornsommer (talk) 00:28, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

—Bornsommer (talk) 00:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bornsommer: I've corrected the spelling on the English GeoHack page, but I'm not sure what version you were looking at, since the English page read "Kort & Martikelstyrelsen" rather than "Kort- og martikelstyrelsen". (I don't see the words at all on the Danish version of the GeoHack page.) If my correction propagates to the other language versions (this may take a while), all is well. If it doesn't, you need to go to the talk page for the specific language version where you're seeing the error (there should be a "Diskussion", or similar, link near the top of the left-hand column, under the Wikipedia globe) and point out the problem there. Deor (talk) 10:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The majority of the population was born in the Isle of Man (47.6%)

Some basic maths education needed here. 47.6% is not a majority! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.176.157 (talk) 17:39, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

I think it was a case of wrong word choice. Plurality would be better - or - something like 'Manx people are the largest group'.--ЗAНИAe born ^talk

I don't really think plurality is right either it reads like a euphemism and means something else. The expression numerical minority is accurate - say while by far the largest group, those born on Man (47.6%) constitute a numerical minority Manninagh1958 (talk) 06:28, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

^{WB talk}] 19:44, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Geography

Propose to correct some of the wording about the Northern Plain.Manninagh1958 (talk) 15:36, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Government Structure

This section current includes: "The Council of Ministers comprises the greater part of the House of Keys." This is incorrect. The House of Keys currently has 24 members; the Legislative Council has 11 members; and the Council of Ministers has 9 members. Should this instead read: "Members of the House of Keys comprise the majority of the Council of Ministers"? Contributor tom (talk) 17:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Celtic Nations

"As one of the six Celtic nations"...Who defines what are Celtic nations and that there are six as opposed to five or seven? Do different entities list different "nations"? Is this stating a political position rather than cultural fact? Mannanan51 (talk) 00:15, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I suspect it's based on the Celtic League's definition. universalcosmos | talk 16:52, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Man or Mann?

 Fixed

Despite a section on its name, its English spelling never comes up. The name of the island appears to be Man, but the title appears to be Mann, see Lord of Mann or Kings of Mann. Why is that? And why is that not explained in the Name section? Indeed, the articles about the island (including Kingdom of the Isles) seem to interchange between 'Man' and 'Mann' when referring to the island itself. --Svip^pong 08:20, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

"Mann" has been added.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:04, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Too much basic and historical information deleted

Too much historical, and even basic, information is being deleted, mostly by anonymous IP users. Very few of the changes over the last two months or so have been improvements, as can be seen in this long-term diff [1]. Even the basic fact that the Norse settlement of Mann was in any way related to Scotland was deleted, as was the very name Mann from the lead. I'm of a mind to revert most of this back to a stable version from December and re-integrate the few changes that were actual improvements.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:03, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I certainly don't think that details about the King's titles should be there, but can see the arguments that the info on "Mann" should be put back. I am not familiar with the details of the Scotland connection; I note however that this "basic fact" is not present in the history section of this article, and History of the Isle of Man mentions the Kings of Dublin and the Earls of Orkney, rather than Scotland in particular. I'd like to see whatever the relationship is explained in both of those places before coming back in any form into the lead here. CMD (talk) 22:16, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

It's more important to get the article in better shape than to argue technicalities about whether something in the lead isn't in the body. Just put it in the body, too, seems the obvious solution. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  21:41, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Given it is not in either this article or the main history article, I question its presence in the lead not because of a technicality but because that indicates it is not important. If it is important, that should be supported with sources, which are lacking given the information's absence. CMD (talk) 02:08, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

We're arguing the same point: It needs to be (with sources, of course) in the main body of the article, whether it's in the lead or not.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:05, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Isle of Man. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120316143121/http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/mesolithic/ to http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/mesolithic/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121108050257/http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/neolithic/ to http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/neolithic/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120316143141/http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/ironage/ to http://www.gov.im/mnh/collections/archaeology/ironage/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130302143313/http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmanwelcome5.xml to http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmanwelcome5.xml
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.iomtoday.co.im/newspaper.aspx
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.manxgrandprix.org/Competitors/MGP%20regulations%2009.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110727082404/http://mhkstheyworkforyou.org/default.aspx to http://mhkstheyworkforyou.org/default.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:56, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Unsourced content about transport

The airport section of this was just being edit warred over which is silly as it is unsourced.

I moved all the parts of the transport section here that were unsourced, per WP:PRESERVE. Per WP:BURDEN do not restore without finding reliable sources, checking the content against them, and citing them

There is a comprehensive bus network, operated by the government owned bus operator Bus Vannin.

The Isle of Man Sea Terminal in Douglas has regular ferries to and from Heysham as well as summer ferries to and from Liverpool, with a more restricted timetable operating in winter. There are also limited summer-only services to and from Belfast and Dublin. The Dublin route also operates at Christmas. At the time of the Isle of Man TT a limited number of sailings operate to and from Larne in Northern Ireland. All ferries are operated by the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company.

The only commercial airport on the island is the Isle of Man Airport at Ronaldsway. There are direct scheduled and chartered flights to numerous airports in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

One of the oldest operating horse tram services is located on the sea front in the capital, Douglas. It was founded in 1876.

The island used to have an extensive narrow-gauge railway system, both steam-operated and electric, but the majority of the steam railway tracks were taken out of service many years ago, and the track removed. As at 2017, there is a steam railway between Douglas and Port Erin, an electric railway between Douglas and Ramsey and an electric mountain railway which climbs Snaefell.

-- Jytdog (talk) 18:34, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Um, most of that is already sourced at the articles it links to throughout. WP:V requires that material be sourceable not sourced though of course we want the latter to happen in every article eventually. Suggest restoring it, aside from the bits being editwarred about, and copy-paste whatever sources are needed from the main articles on this stuff. I have bigger things on my own plate today, and this article has regulars who'll take care of it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  22:22, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

The sourcing needs to be provided when the content is restored, not later. Where it comes from is not relevant; it needs to be reliable. Jytdog (talk) 22:29, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Tax haven

IoM is world-famous (sometimes -infamous) as a tax haven; it's a big part of why non-Brits have ever even heard of the place. It seems weird and unencyclopedic that we don't have a subsection about this under economics/business.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  16:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Weird? Maybe, but I'll venture an opinion -- it's a very technical topic for which sourcing is made difficult by the reluctance of jurisdictions to self-identify as "tax havens". Add to that the dryness of the topic, which means very little of substance will be found in the mainstream press. Essentially, I think you'd need to find a Wikipedian who is knowledgeable about the subject and who has access to industry publications that talk about it. So, maybe not so "weird" at all. NewYorkActuary (talk) 00:48, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

We do not rely on jurisdictions writing about themselves; that's primary sourcing which is weak and often impermissible. We'd rely on secondary sources for this. It takes only a few seconds to find copious amounts of "isle+of+man"+"tax+haven"&num=20&source=lnms&tbm=nws news and book and journal source material. Individual Wikipedians' knowledge of a subject isn't a source at at all, and doesn't have exclusive access to relevant publications, though someone with a tax/finance/economics background is probably best to do the work, since it's easy to misuse financial and regulatory terminology and stats. Dryness of topic has nothing to do with encyclopedic relevance. Per WP:SUMMARY, we should have at least a basic representation of this subtopic in this article, because it's among the notable encyclopedic facts about the subject in the modern world; If someone wanted to get deep into that subtopic, that would be a side article where the "dry" details would belong.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  09:48, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Oh, my. It seems I've been misunderstood. I was merely opining as to the reasons why a dry, technical topic might not have gotten the Wikipedia coverage it deserves. I'm certainly not looking to discourage you from writing about it. Indeed, I'm sure you'll do a good job of expanding this article. Happy editing! NewYorkActuary (talk) 15:02, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I did take is as discouragement from covering it in the article, as too dry and specialist. My bad! At least we have some links to sources someone can use. I don't think I'm really up to this, because it's way outside my knowledge sphere.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  18:32, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

I asked Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Finance if anyone in that crew wants to dig into it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  18:38, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on Isle of Man. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.poverty.org.uk/09/
• Added archive https://archive.is/20120526201738/http://www.gov.im/isleofman/geography.xml to http://www.gov.im/isleofman/geography.xml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130728150714/http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19812010/sites/ronaldsway.html to http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19812010/sites/ronaldsway.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081014033149/http://www.isleofmanfinance.gov.im/About/political.xml to http://www.isleofmanfinance.gov.im/About/political.xml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130816235226/http://cf.gov.im/categories/home-and-neighbourhood/emergency-services/ to http://cf.gov.im/categories/home-and-neighbourhood/emergency-services/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080910004526/http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/ebusiness/advantages/protocol3.pdf to http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/ebusiness/advantages/protocol3.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930201146/http://www.gov.im/treasury/incometax/strategy/viewnews.gov?page=lib%2Fnews%2Ftreasury%2Fincometax%2Fnewassessorofinc.xml&menuid= to http://www.gov.im/treasury/incometax/strategy/viewnews.gov?page=lib%2Fnews%2Ftreasury%2Fincometax%2Fnewassessorofinc.xml&menuid=
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070510060817/http://money.independent.co.uk/personal_finance/tax/article349147.ece to http://money.independent.co.uk/personal_finance/tax/article349147.ece
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080225093426/http://www.isleofman.com/tourism/about to http://www.isleofman.com/tourism/about/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110511200853/http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/unescoacceptsman.xml to http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/unescoacceptsman.xml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121012054640/http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/iomfinance/factsheets/isleofmanproduce.pdf to http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/iomfinance/factsheets/isleofmanproduce.pdf
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/bumper_sales_for_manx_cheese_1_1750532
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130430164916/http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/iomfinance/factsheets/isleofmanproduce.pdf to http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/iomfinance/factsheets/isleofmanproduce.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:02, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Uncited data added in the lede

I have tagged as {{original research}} the second part of the paragraph added by a new user in this change - reason= unclear origin for the definitive data placed prominently in the lede - needs a reliable source - the preceding citation does not cover the following prose.The unsourced prose does not appear to relate to any other below that I can easily see, and it's obvious from the world bank .pdf cited immediately above that the following prose should have equal consideration.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:59, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Isle of Man. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140703194651/https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/help/faqs.ftl to http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/help/faqs.ftl
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20030608055741/http://www.gov.im/IsleOfMan/religion.xml to http://www.gov.im/isleofman/religion.xml
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151227154121/http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/manx-witchcraft-and-sorcery-probed-by-academic-1-1744837 to http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/manx-witchcraft-and-sorcery-probed-by-academic-1-1744837
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100716045013/http://isleofman.isle-news.com/ to http://isleofman.isle-news.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Isle of Man. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304050532/https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/iom-key-facts-guide/island-facts/ to https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/iom-key-facts-guide/island-facts/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101121125241/http://www.gov.im/education/ to http://www.gov.im/education/
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.johnstonpress.co.uk/jpplc/ourbusiness/publishingdivision/division.jsp?ref=23
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402103131/http://www.googlelunarxprize.com/media-center/press-release/lunar-entrepreneurs-converge-on-isle-of-man-for-google-lunar-x-prize-summ to https://www.googlelunarxprize.com/media-center/press-release/lunar-entrepreneurs-converge-on-isle-of-man-for-google-lunar-x-prize-summ
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/education/moscow_manx_cheese_1_2908142?showResult=true&pollContentId=7.52601
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304050532/https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/iom-key-facts-guide/island-facts/ to https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/iom-key-facts-guide/island-facts/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120325175544/http://isleofman.isle-news.com/archives/isle-of-man-oak-smoked-mature-cheddar-wins-bronze-medal-at-the-british-cheese-awards-2010/6768/ to http://isleofman.isle-news.com/archives/isle-of-man-oak-smoked-mature-cheddar-wins-bronze-medal-at-the-british-cheese-awards-2010/6768/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161118035745/http://www.provigo.ca/en_CA/products/productlisting/pc-black-label-isle-of-man-extra-old-cheddar-cheese-aged-14-mont0.html to http://www.provigo.ca/en_CA/products/productlisting/pc-black-label-isle-of-man-extra-old-cheddar-cheese-aged-14-mont0.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130306124729/http://www.gov.im/villagaiety/broadway.xml to http://www.gov.im/villagaiety/broadway.xml/
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.iomtoday.co.im/lifestyle/manx-entertainment-news/palace-cinema-reopens-1-3782747/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:38, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

No source on egaming economy

Didnt see a citation on the egaming being a major part of their economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TangleUSB (talk • contribs) 02:35, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

See reference no. 7 (https://www.gov.im/media/1359185/national-income-2015-16-report-final.pdf) ----Ehrenkater (talk) 14:26, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Referring to large land-masses as "islands"

I have amended the lede to show that the IoM is a small island (some 10x35 miles) between two much-larger land masses, per WP:OBVIOUS. The descriptive was changed to include England/Wales/Scotland and RoI/N.I. as "islands" in this change, 18 May 2017 - note both editors involved used the general term 'land masses' in the edit summaries.

Whereas it may be technically correct that sea-locked land masses are islands, I feel it is both ambiguous and misleading considering they are large areas having sub-nations and elements of devolved governance.

I feel the lede should be unequivocally clear, and it's necessary to draw a distinction in size; the editor responsible for the change is currently active on this article/recent changes, so for that reason adding this here.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:20, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Officialness of the Manx language

This edit removed all mention of Manx as an official language (and the claim was overbroad). However, Manx is an official language of the Manx parliament, Tynwald, and that deserves from acknowledgement in the article. That English "is" the official language of the Isle of Man is also an overbroad statement. English is an official language there for everything, and Manx also (not exclusively) is for something specific (and probably is for some additional specific things, that would bear further research; e.g., it's used on the coinage sometimes (especially the everyday stuff versus the commemorative for collectors), and there may be various government offices and such that produce documents in Manx. Worth looking into, anyway.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:53, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the status of Manx is not as clear cut as my edit implies so I am grateful for your post here. Further research and clarification is certainly needed. I think any consensus might come down to an interpretation of what constitutes being 'official'. This is a topic of debate in numerous articles, as I am sure you know. IMO, there is a difference between official bodies using Manx in a ceremonial form, and in a day-to-day practicle form. Is Latin an official language of the UK because the language appears on coinage? Mention of the EU Charter is often used to claim that a minor language has 'official' status within a country. I have deleted that claim here and elsewhere because the connection is tenuous at best and most likely does not exist. I can elaborate if needed. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

This being the "master" page for IoM stuff, I think a review is probably in order of all the relevant articles and what they're saying about this, then a normalization so they do not conflict, and maybe even cite the same sources on the matter, and have HTML comments saying to keep the material in synch. Otherwise this is always going to start to WP:CONTENTFORK and maybe even slowly WP:POVFORK.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:01, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Invisible on map

Can anybody improve the map? The Isle of Man in relation to Britain and Ireland only becomes visible when I view the images separately, but as part of the article it is almost impossible to detect: it consists of four pixels, one almost the same as the sea, one pale green and two very pale green. PJTraill (talk) 20:12, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Mann

"Lord of Mann" is a fossilised phrase. And the spelling with double N is only used when the use of a single N might be ambiguous. ----Ehrenkater (talk) 14:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

And? So?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:30, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

FYI, the above comment was in response to Dabbler's edit summary of 10 July. ----Ehrenkater (talk) 14:20, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, it helps to show that there's no connection to the English word Man. :) 195.67.149.168 (talk) 16:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Isle of Man for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Isle of Man is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Isle of Man (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:09, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Manx Language

Section 10 - Culture, subsection 10.1 Language I added a paragraph regarding the Isle of Man's Manx Language school. All children (ages 3+ are taught ALL lessons exclusively in Manx. This is not a Manx lesson for 1 hour a week similar to French or Spanish lessons in most English speaking schools, the whole school day, every day is Manx Language exclusively. I included a citation reference to the school website homepage that includes the factual information that I added to the article, the website being administered under policies of, and by employees of the Isle of Man Government. The offending paragraph was as follows:

'Bunscoill Ghaelgagh is the world's only Manx Gaelic medium primary school. Based in the historic former St John's school building. All lessons in the school are taught in native Manx. The school is located in the heart of St John's village, opposite Tynwald Hill the centre of the Manx Parliament.'

This was removed with the following Edit Summery:

'(Reverted good faith edits by Ripsaw-2: Reverting addition that, intentionally or not, was phrased in an unencyclopedically promotional manner; if you don't agree I will walk through this with you clause by clause and demonstrate that it sounds like the description of, e.g., a vacation prize on "Wheel of Fortune" '

I disagree that that the National Government describes it's places of education, especially one that specialises in the preservation and development of the National language, as a prize on "Wheel of Fortune". There are 4 sentences in the paragraph and all 4 are factually correct with zero embellishment. In the context of a native language dying out, I would argue that the information added is of great importance and should be reinstated. Ripsaw-2 (talk) 22:48, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

References

"I of M" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect I of M. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

National anthem vs Royal anthem in infobox

Recently an edit war has broken out over the Anthem parameter on this article's infobox.

As MarxManx has correctly pointed out several times, "God Save the Queen" is not the national anthem of the Isle of Man.[2][3]. In 2003, "O Land of Our Birth" was adopted as the official anthem, and "God Save..." was designated the royal anthem. I've tried to find the actual act which declared it as such on the government's legislation portal but currently had no luck. The article on "O Land of Our Birth" currently does not provide a good citation for this.

Given that "God Save" isn't the national anthem, I agree with MarxManx that it should not be in the anthem section of the infobox, at least without being marked as the royal anthem. The infobox on Canada makes a distinction between the National anthem and Royal anthem (which also happens to be "God Save"). However, Template:Infobox dependency (used here) does not support separate fields for this.

In hopes of preventing further edit warring, I present the following options for discussion:

1. Don't include "God Save" in the Anthem parameter. Elaborate in the article body.
2. List both "O Land" and "God Save" without any distinction.
3. List both, with the latter labeled "God Save the Queen" (Royal Anthem)
4. List both in a way that looks like two separate parameters: Royal Anthem: "God Save the Queen"
5. Switch to Template:Infobox country which has separate national_anthem and royal_anthem params.

Courtesy ping: @Devokewater: @Ehrenkater: @Alexf: @Johnj1995: @Vif12vf: @Roger 8 Roger:

I'm tentatively favoring Option 3, but don't want to risk throwing more fuel on the fire. Awaiting your thoughts, RoxySaunders (talk · contribs) 20:34, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for agreeing. In terms of the options, I think option 1 is probably my most favourable and having looked at the edit history a couple of people have attempted this change also, and like you say you could elaborate in the article body. Thank you MarxManx (talk) 21:11, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I noticed this edit war, the IOM is not part of the UK, whilst I'm not too sure about the correct answer, I'm minded to agree with MarxManx (talk), bear in mind both Wales + Scotland, have their own national anthems, whilst being part of the UK. Regards. --Devokewater 21:12, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I think further clarification of the difference between national and royal anthems needs to be obtained first. In NZ, for example, there are two national anthems but one is only used on certain 'royal' occassions. That could quite easily be referred to as a 'royal' anthem, but it is not. Most NZers probably don't know there are two national anthems because God Defend NZ is the only one they hear. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

I'll take this as weak consensus for removing God Save from the Anthem parameter. I've replaced it with an Template:Efn which aims to explain the distinction. Feel free to fiddle with formatting or phrasing on that. Bizarrely, the CIA World Factbook entry I linked to seems to have updated (old version here) to remove a section Note: adopted 2003, in use since 1907; serves as a local anthem; as a British Crown dependency, "God Save the Queen" is official (see United Kingdom) and is played when the sovereign, members of the royal family, or the lieutenant governor are present. It now lists "O Land" as the national anthem without any explanation. RoxySaunders (talk · contribs) 16:21, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

I disagree that consensus has been reached and request the infobx is left with 2 national anthems. CIA says this: "note: adopted 2003, in use since 1907; serves as a local anthem; as a British Crown dependency, "God Save the Queen" is official (see United Kingdom) and is played when the sovereign, members of the royal family, or the lieutenant governor are present" That is pretty clear cited evidenceby a source regularly used on WP. If you remove God Save you are using your own original research ad worse, not using the sourse that you provided! Roger 8 Roger (talk) 18:21, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Population

The BBC are reporting that the 2021 Census revealed a population of 84,069. Mjroots (talk) 20:20, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Map

That map is 100% useless.

Literally 100%. 67.87.88.72 (talk) 11:13, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

How so? CheeseInTea (talk) 19:10, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Island "Nation" status

With reference to the opening paragraph which labels the Isle of Man as an "Island Nation": The Isle of Man is not a nation or country. It is a "self-governing British Crown Dependency" just like Jersey and Guernsey. It is not recognised as a state and as such the UK government is responsible for its international relations. Also, it's constitution makes no mention of any nation/country/state status.

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/cabinet-office/external-relations/constitution/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.228.169 (talk) 22:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)