Talk:Isle of Man/Archive 2

Julius Caesar and Mona

'During the period of Julius Caesar as proconsul and his visit to Britain during 55 and 54 BC referred to the Isle of Man in his Commentarii de Bello Gallico to 'an island called Mona which lies midway across the sea separating Britain from Ireland.

I'm loath to edit this out myself, seeing as I'm not too knowledgeable about this, but Mona is used to refer to Anglesey (Ynis Mon in Welsh) and not the Isle of Man.

This is a difficult area. It is correct that the Romans referred to Anglesey as Mona. The final names adopted by the Romans where Mona (Anglesey) and Monavia (Isle of Man). The name for Anglesey in Welsh is Môn which is similar to the early Manx Gaelic name Manu. This can be found using the reference;- The Isle of Man. A Social, Cultural and Political History. by R.H.Kinvig pp18 (1975)(3rd Edition) Liverpool University Press ISBN 0-85323-391-8

It is also interesting to note that the the name Mona was a common girls name on the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man Steam Packet Company have also had ships named Mona's Isle and Mona's Queen and the Isle of Man Railway Company named one of their steam locomotives Mona.

{Agljones 11:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)}

Official languages of IOM?

The page claims that English and Manx are the official languages of IOM. Does anyone have a credible source to support this? I have looked on the linked pages and found nothing. Anyone?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/im.html Happy now? Manxruler 00:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Not quite. The CIA World Factbook doesn't list only official languages, but includes all languages widely spoken (see e.g. its entry for Ghana). As far as I know, the Isle of Man has no 'official' language. Perhaps we should follow the UK article and put "(de facto)" in there? Crebbin 11:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC).

Well, I can find a discussion from the FSC where members state that there isn't an official language but English is the language of the administration. [1]-Localzuk^(talk) 11:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Irish sea offensive?

That's the first I've heard that Manx people find the term Irish Sea 'offensive'. I've never met anyone who actually cares what it's called outside of Mec Vannin. I wager only a tiny proportion of the Manx population find the term 'Irish Sea' offensive.

Ali0th 10:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

LOL Yeah but I'm sure if you get some of Mec Vannin logged on to wikipedia they'll see that the issue is given due weight :) --feline1 10:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm Manx and I agree that it's often considered offensive. Any reference to Britain is an insult. Xania 23:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

But it IS called the Irish Sea by the Manx, English, Scots and Irish. To keep to actual facts, the sentence suggesting there may be some dispute should be remoced as it serves no purpose here. If there is an issue, someone should start a separate article on it. Emeraude 17:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Rendering Bug on Page

The first three sections, Geography, People, and Culture, are rendered without their corresponding [edit] links on the same line. Instead, these links appear on the first line under the {{Infobox_country}} box. I assume it's a problem with the template, and will try to discuss it with the appropriate party there, but I am making the note here, as well. -- Eliyahu S ^Talk 13:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Further testnig shows that this is a platform-dependent bug. It occurs in Firefox 1.5.0.6 and Safari 2.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.4.7 but not in IE 6 on Win XP. -- Eliyahu S ^Talk 14:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

External Links

I've added an extra forum link. If anyone else has links then please add them. Someone keeps removing links claiming that Wikipedia doesn't allow them but this is bollocks. Just keep adding them. Xania 22:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

In addition please beware of a Wiki member Dabbler who keeps reverting edits and spamming my user talk page. I'm thinking of complaining about him. Xania 19:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Xania, our rules do not allow forums. They are not acceptable as external links I'm afriad. Please take a look at this, this and this. If they keep being added it may lead to a block due to disruptive editing.-Localzuk^(talk) 19:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Your links provide no detail and nothing specific. Your talk page also lists your politics as anarchism so explain why Wikipedia is happy to promote commercial organizations like Manx Radio and not non-profit organizations. What you are saying is just bollocks. It may be Wiki policy but we all know that most of Wiki policy is decided by geeks like yourself in their pursuit of alienating ordinary users. So yes, I'll keep adding the links (and other information as well). Then I'll add them using other user names, anonymous proxy servers until finally you give it a break. OK? Xania 23:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

it is the largest island off the coast of England

Is IoM off the coast of England? It could be argued it is off the coast of Scotland easily. Also, wouldn't Ireland be the largest island off the coast of England? 82.9.199.243 16:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Just to note, this sentence was removed from the article today as being 'vague and possibly dubious':

With an area of 221 square miles, it is the largest island off the coast of England.

Seems to me to be true from a common-sense point of view, but there are obvious difficulties with the definition of what is and is not 'off the coast of England'. Crebbin 00:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC).

Probable nonsense - Juan of Ronague

I removed the following because I suspect its a joke unless someone can provide proper references for it.

In recent years there has been a resurgence of interest in Juan of Ronague, Saint of Mann. Juan (a popular Manx name, pronounced Jewan) was born c.685 AD in Ronague and martyred in 803 AD fighting Vikings that had razed Peel Castle. As was the norm in Celtic times he was recognised as a Saint during his lifetime.

St Juan is traditionally associated with the little people, indeed it is said they brought him up. The legends of St Juan are chronicled in the book "Juan of Ronague, Saint of Mann", which tells of his early years, his battles with the Buggane, and his travels to Ireland and Iceland. His fellow travellers were Ned Cashin, St Breeshey, and Figol a talking ferret. The book was published in 2005, by the St Juan Foundation.

Every year on the 8th March (the anniversary of Juan's death) it is said that members of the Foundation, along with the secretive "Knights of the High Corracle of St Juan" meet at an undisclosed inn and eat, drink, and be merry, whilst recounting some of Juan's tales of daring-do.

Did you try Google? There is definitely a 132 page book of the the title published by The Saint Juan Foundation. May be based in folklore as opposed to a joke (the little people are what we call the fairies that live in various locations around the Island) but Manx history, traditions and folklore are definitely in resurgence. By the way, fact or fiction, more people say hello to themselves (the little people) as they cross Fairy Bridge than go to church :) Ripsaw 01:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

British Isles?

Many of us find the term "British Isles" inaccurate, outdated and somewhat offensive. I feel it has little place in a neutral article and I feel it's use should be avoided. I have removed it previously from this article and while I don't want to start and edit war I feel we should agree to omit from this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.100.243.22 (talk) 01:57, 19 November 2006

Please place new comments at the bottom of the page, and also it is appropriate to sign your post by typing four tildes like this ~~~~, it signs and dates your post with your user name.

Secondly I strongly disagree with your point of view about the words British Isles, I consider it a geographical and a neutral term which has a perfectly good reason for its use in this article. So now we both have a point of view about the neutrality of the term.

Let us try for a compromise, if you can find a two word name with a full Wikipedia article for the archipelago off north west Europe consisting of the two large islands of Great Britain and Ireland with all the other ones around them, then please suggest it. You may also wish to review British Isles to see exactly how offensive the term really is. Dabbler 03:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Dabbler. British Isles, to me, is a neutral geographical term describing a paricular group of islands in north-west Europe. Some Irish people presumably object to it because of the way British is generally used to refer to things of the United Kingdom. But I can't see how that argument extends to the Isle of Man. It is a crown dependency after all: British (in the United Kingdom sense) is probably quite apt.

British Islands has been suggested as an alternative, but it's not commonly used and I can't see how it could be any less 'offensive' than British Isles. IONA is another possibility, but again isn't widely known (to say the least). Crebbin 14:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC).

The fact that some may choose to find the term British Isles offensive has no bearing on the fact that the British Isles is what the British Isles are known as. siarach 14:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. I am pretty sure that the Lieutenant Governer of the Island uses the term 'British Isles' and remember a bit of a stir where the IOM creameries had put 'United Kingdom' on their address and were asked to change it to 'British Isles' by him.

The term is a geographical term used to describe the group of islands in NW Europe. We do not want to get into the same silly argument that has occurred on the Ireland article about this.-Localzuk^(talk) 15:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To Clarify (from a resident). The Isle of Man is part of the British Isles. It is not part of Europe, it is not part of United Kindom. Ripsaw 00:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify your clarification :D, the Isle of Man is part of Europe (geographically) but not directly part of the European Union, instead the UK represents it in this aspect.-Localzuk^(talk) 18:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Places of Interest?

87.254.86.254 11:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Suggestion, should we add a Places of Interest Section to the Isle of Man Page? Something Similar to the page for Cornwall?

Vandalism

someone wrote gaaayboooy and when I try edit the page, I can't delete it. someone help!

Its just lag in the Wikipedia server - it'll catch up in a few minutes Mammal4 16:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

TT?

What are TT fans and the TT festival? --AW 18:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It is mentioned later in the article under the sport section but it is the Isle of Man TT which is a motorbike road racing event. I have added a wikilink to the food and drink section now.-Localzuk^(talk) 18:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

On the WikiProject Countries talk page, the section Location Maps for European countries had shown new maps created by David Liuzzo, that are available for the countries of the European continent, and for countries of the European Union exist in two versions. From November 16, 2006 till January 31, 2007, a poll had tried to find a consensus for usage of 'old' or of which and where 'new' version maps. Please note that since January 1, 2007 all new maps became updated by David Liuzzo (including a world locator, enlarged cut-out for small countries) and as of February 4, 2007 the restricted licence that had jeopardized their availability on Wikimedia Commons, became more free. At its closing, 25 people had spoken in favor of either of the two presented usages of new versions but neither version had reached a consensus (12 and 13), and 18 had preferred old maps.
As this outcome cannot justify reverting of new maps that had become used for some countries, seconds before February 5, 2007 a survey started that will be closed soon at February 20, 2007 23:59:59. It should establish two things:

• whether the new style maps may be applied as soon as some might become available for countries outside the European continent (or such to depend on future discussions),
• which new version (with of without indicating the entire European Union by a separate shade) should be applied for which countries.

Please read the discussion (also in other sections α, β, γ, δ, ε, ζ, η, θ) and in particular the arguments offered by the forementioned poll, while realizing some comments to have been made prior to updating the maps, and all prior to modifying the licences, before carefully reading the presentation of the currently open survey. You are invited to only then finally make up your mind and vote for only one option.
There mustnot be 'oppose' votes; if none of the options would be appreciated, you could vote for the option you might with some effort find least difficult to live with - rather like elections only allowing to vote for one of several candidates. Obviously, you are most welcome to leave a brief argumentation with your vote. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 19 Feb2007 00:26 (UTC)

Isle of Man Motto

Just wondering as to whether the motto "Whithersoever you throw it, it will stand" refers to the Irish myth to its origins
Gcrossan 00:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The motto has nothing to do with fairy tales of giants, it is a direct reference to the 3 legs emblem and it's inner strength gained from centuries of foreign (English)interference. Ripsaw 00:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Flora anf Fauna

Just started - more info required. Osborne 08:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Isle of Man

Definition of Isle of Man Pound and offical value can be found in sections (1) to (4) of the Treasury Act (Isle of Man) 1991. The meaning of the Etymology is the study or the history of words. The origin of the name of the Isle of Man is unclear. Also, the definition and offical status is respect to a)United Kindom and b)European Community is very important and needs to be stated at the first paragraph. Please compare to the structure of Jersey and the United Kingdom. People moving to the Isle of Man need to be moved to another page. It is curious that sport cammag has a longer paragraph than TT Racing and the Manx Labour Party has a longer paragraph than Tynwald. I was interested to know that I do not have an offically recoginised citizenship status. Does this mean that I am an illegal alien in the Isle of Man? {Agljones 09:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)}

Introductory paragraphs should be short, with the main body of information in the article.

Etymology is a correct title for a paragraph discussing the name of something.

The relationship with the UK (vis-a-vis Crown dependency) was in the introduction. The EU (not European Community) relationship might be included, but not at full length - that is not appropriate.

TT racing and Tynwald have separate pages. Their entries here are merely introductions with links to the full articles.

You've misread the part about citizenship.

Mauls 11:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Have tidied up a bit, hived off the 'people' section (keeping a short note of the more notable people).

Cammag has been shortened - as has the external relations section which was getting a bit bloated and needed it's own article. Citizenship has moved with it, if you want to read it in full.

The introduction has been reduced again, c.f. WP policy on long articles. Have added in a reference to the It was OTT, referring (for example) to geographical location twice in separate paragraphs - a topic that then gets further treatment in a section below, and also has a full article. Have added in a more explicit reference to the UK and the EU though. Jersey is a good example of an introduction.

The Economy of the Isle of Man section and article need work.

Mauls 14:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

British Islands Passports

British Islands Passports? Ok i know that people Born on the Isle of Man and indeed the Channel Islands are British Citizens and have "British Islands Isle of Man /Balliwick of jersey /guernsey " on the front cover but does this have it on the Photo page cause my passport (being born in the United Kingdom and in Northern Ireland says "United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" on the front Cover but also at the top of the Info page where you Picture is what does it say in the British Islands one ???

unsigned edit by 217.41.240.15

I believe that the details page also reads 'British Islands XXX', just like the cover.

Incidentally, the passports aren't related to whether or not someone is born on the islands. They are the variant of passport issued by the passport offices in the Crown dependencies. If a 'UK person' applies for a passport from the Isle of Man authorities, they will be supplied with an Isle of Man variant, and if a Manxman applies for a passport from the UK Passport Agency, they'll be supplied a with a UK variant.

Mauls 22:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly right Mauls, and I can confirm that the photo page states 'British Islands: Isle of Man' at the top.-Localzuk^(talk) 18:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

References and Importance boxes

The article does cite references and has information on importance. These boxes were added without any explanation on the talk page.

If a problem is perceived, an individual section should be tagged. Tagging an article of this length, in this way, without explanation, is not helpful.

Mauls 22:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)