Talk:Homunculi of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime/Archive 1

Homunculi in Order of Death

There is a mistake in order of death. Wrath didn't die, he lost 'his' arm and leg, later gein auto-mail. Also Gluttony didn't die , he was escaping with Dante end ate her later. Part of 51st opisode on YouTube

    That is not a mistake. Their deaths occurred in the movie when they were transmuted to open the gate between worlds.

Yes, this is the homunculi in order of death:

-Greed( episode 34) -Lust( episode 47) -Sloth( episode 47- 48) -Pride( episode 51) -Wrath( movie) -Gluttony( movie) -Envy( movie)

Thank you for asking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 17:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

On Envy and Hohenheim's "Similarities"

There is mention of Hohenheim changing bodies several times in the anime, and how this could make for a mistake when Envy is said to resemble him in his true form. Actually, judging from the hooded figure that is Hohenheim when making the first stone, I think he can actually change his appearance using the stone, after changing bodies. This would fix that little problem. It would also explain how Dante recognised him immediately. (However, it does not explain why Dante doesn't do the same thing)

Spring Cleaning

Seems this page is in need of some clean up. I've read all available Manga chapters and 46 episodes of the anime, and found transcripts for what I have not seen. Thusly, I take it's improvement upon myself. This is merely a disclaimer that I do, in fact, know what I am doing. Just a heads up for the frequent editors, named and otherwise. --Nepharski 8:00 PM, 6 February 2006

Yay! Good for you Nepharski. --maru (talk) contribs 05:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. Now that the "Overview" is finished, I'll be working my way down the Homunculi chronologically, in order of appearance. Hopefully, we can get this article into good standing. --Nepharski 11:31 PM, 7 February 2006

Whoaaaaaa, boy. How to say this...okay. Speaking as an experienced editor (and coming off as a jerk v_v), while the knowledge might be there, the quality of the writing is lacking. There's innumerable errors in grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. Also - you have a slight tendency to walk around the topic at hand.

Lord knows I'm not the end-all be-all of this article or any other - this site is *NOTHING* without collaboration - and clearly you've got a great amount of enthusiasm for the work. Which is wonderful. It's just that the writing is... w-well... sort of not. I took some of your edits and implemented them the best I could, though I'd be fibbing if I said I wasn't taken aback a bit at reading the article and then finding the "Spring Cleaning" log here.

I should smash my fingers with a tack hammer for coming off as so cruel, so I can understand how you may dislike me now or think I have it in for you. Instead I'll probably just sit at my work station feeling bad. Sigh. Papacha 09:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I have a "Slight tendency to walk around the topic at hand"? How so. Yes, my some spelling and grammer errors were present, but I doubt to the degree that we should just scrap almost everything. No offense to a vetran, but a brief look at the state of the article tells me it's jsut been reverted back to it's somewhat-sloppy old self. Surely, we can reach some agreement here. I'm also not quite sure what you mean by (In the history) by "Mess." I thought it was a mess before hand. --Nepharski 11:06 AM, 11 February 2006

Unfortunately, going off the goodly number of errors JuigiKario (which can be accessed between revisions) started to correct and the sizable amount I edited myself before "scrapping" in mass: yeah, I think the article was unsalvagable. I believe the mistakes were so glaring and over-the-map that the best option for a decent clean-up was a revert. I don't speak for JugiKarion, but if any editor cares to see what was done, they're free to do so and make judgment for themselves.

"Mess?" Mess is subjective, I'll give ya that. But from what I read, the article after revert was the better organized and written of the two. So I incorporated bits of your work into the original piece. It's not nearly the length it was, mostly thanks to the excision of sentences talking around the subject (i.e. walk around) that tended to get knotty and hard to read. The passages above the main bits of Gluttony and Lust were cut for beating the reader over the head with the same information covered in the base of the synopsis. And the structure in itself just wasn't _there_, making the article very untidy and a bigger mess than before. I'm not a WIKI-GOD~! (or even a minor deity, heh), so the door's open for plenty of others to take a look at what was done and add their input to the discussion. My word is by no means final - though I think the bulk of editors might agree... Papacha 00:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, well, as long as I can understand your reasoning, I'm fine (at least the revised introduction was good enough to stay). The article does need some cleaning, however. --Nepharski 9:20 PM, 11 February 2006

Heh-heh. Dude, I'd be remiss in saying this article or any other related to FMA didn't need a *ton* of work. A sprinkling of spring-cleaning all around would do these pages some good. Though I do think the "Other", "Chimera", and "Video Games" branches of the section are far more dire. Papacha 05:28, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I might be able to help elsewhere. From now on, however, I think I'll ask around before just doing some drastic changes spur of the moment. --Nepharski 1:39 PM, 12 February 2006

Pride?

First of all, kudos to whoever made the manga section at the end of each biography. Anyway, a character has been introduced in recent the manga chapter who may in fact be Pride. First of all, he is the Fuhrer's personal assistance. Wrath wouldn't choose just anyone as his assistant, right? Also the Characters name is Storch. If I am not mistaken, Stolz means Pride in german. Coincedence? I think not. Should I include this in his biography, or wait until it is confirmed?

Speculation isn't allowed, so no. --Apostrophe 17:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

wait until this is confirmed. And unfortunately, I doubt that it's that easy. watch it end up being one of Mustang's subordinates other than Hawkeye.

• I actually have a good theory that I'd just like to add to the discussion. Since all we've seen of Pride so far is he and Wrath talking through a wall with a metal door separating them suggests that Pride is in a prison. And since all we've seen of Kimblee so far in the manga is just the bottom half of his face in flashbacks and once I think in a prison, it's very likely that Kimblee is Pride. It's just speculation, but I thought I'd add it here to get a discussion going. --Geg 19:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Speculation may be allowed in the discussion part of the page, but not on the main page. Stop posting theories on who Pride is there. Wait for confirmation.

i doubt its kimblee - kaizenyorii

so far it seems that all the homunculus have the characteristics of their names so I doubt Pride would be a person who would be fond of acting as someone's servant.

Envy and Shambala

Does anyone remember if Envy is actually seen to die in the movie? I don't remember. I guess it can be assumed that opening the gate was symmetrical on both sides (Wrath and Gluttony)..(Hoenheim and Envy) and that Envy died like Gluttony did. But does anyone else remember it differently or have a different theory?

I like your theory there. I believe Envy and Gluttony may possibly not be dead but just imprisoned in the gate. However, we saw Wrath's fate which was a happy one (becoming all cute with all limbs attached) and going to heaven with Izumi. Perhaps Gluttony and Envy went to heaven as well, Gluttony reunited with Lust. I also doubt Sloth to be dead as well, as we only saw her become ethanol, meaning she may be floating about in the air. Evilgidgit 14:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

So if sloth was transformed into ethanol, that means there's a possibility she's still alive. As for envy dying, I don't think so, since the sacrifice to open the gate was Hohenhiem's life. As far as I can remember, you never see envy again in the movie once he is used as a circle to open the gate.

Fuhrer King... Bradley?

I know that there isn't any distinct difference in pronouncing the letters "R" and "L" in japanese, but in episode 8 of the anime, near the end of the episode, Edward receives an "order", or something like that, from the President. It reads "We give the name "Full Metal" to thy Edward Elric in the name of Fuhrer King Bradrey", followed by nonsense. So what is his "real" name? Is it Bradley or Bradrey? Hecko 20:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Checked my copy, you're right. However, this could have simply been an error on the translator's part. I'm fairly certain the prevalant translation is Bradley, so we probably should keep that, but add a note about this or something. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 21:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

To note, I created a profile to separate him from Wrath & Pride, due to being refered to either name in either version.

Restored Gluttony

Don't know exactly who did that stunt with replacing all of Gluttony's section with all F-bombs, but I went back through the revisions and restored it. If anything else happens in this page like that, don't forget to fix it up again. ^_^

Hohenheim

In the manga, Hohenheim appears to be a homunculus as well. (He is invulnerable to bullets, has the same appearence as father, father acts as if he created him) How many more chapters will be necessary before we add a section on him? Unless some of you are assuming he is Pride, which wouldn't make sense considering Father's words in the most recent chapters. --Tjstrf 01:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Tj! Anyway, it can only be added when it becomes - without a doubt - fact that he is a Homunculus. - A Link to the Past (talk) 12:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think it's already as close as we could get without an outright statement, but fine. And hello to you as well. --Tjstrf 03:08, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Nah. Any thoughts on what Hohenheim is - other than a "monster" - would be conjecture right now. While he's beyond human he might be beyond homunculus as well, and we aren't even sure as of #55 if Father made him or vice-versa, if they had a hand in each other's creation at all. It's for the best to wait on this one. Papacha 14:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Definately need to wait on that. Father/Hohenheim appear to be two seperate entities, so we should just wait until one or both are defined as homunculi or not.

If Hohenheim is the biological father of the Elrics then how can he be a homunculus?

Essentially he is, by which of how his soul is carried. That is the difference between him and the homunculi, he retains a soul, while the others do not. However, it's been stated that most of the homunculi are immortal and don't change normally like humans do. However, Pride (King Bradley) was given the ability to age and go through life stages unlike the other homunculi. Hohenheim is in a sense, a body snatcher, transgressing time by entering host bodies to extend his life. Though a soul is transferred when this occures, it's still possible he could be a homunculus, like Pride, just with acceptions. Nothing has ever been fully elaborated on exactally what Hohenheim is, but one can only assume his exact origions. Though it is safe to assume that he probably wasn't even human back when he was with Dante and had Envy before he died in his mortal shell. It's still all speculation.

Greed love-ins...

Nothing against the guy, but is there any homunculi on the receiving end of glurge more often than Greed? Sheesh.

The amount of saccharine and worship dripping off that last edit was *shameful*. I mean, GEE WHIZ PEOPLE. My gosh. And it wasn't the first time either. I'd of considered a rewrite if it weren't so numbingly character biased and full of errors that it'd be a lost cause.

Other characters in the Hagaren-verse get it too, but rarely do I ever see somebady who gets it as habitually and to the extent as Greed. Anyone else notice this? Papacha 06:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Anime homunculi order of appearence

I believe Sloth's apearance on the first few episodes as a new-born, beast-like homunculi is a relevant addition to her description, even if the first homunculi to make a full fledged appearence is Lust.

Gluttony's pic.

I am not sure if Wiki should continue to use the current one for this page. I see it was taken from just after Gluttony had his feelings removed. --Juigi Kario (Charge! * My crusades) 01:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Why cleanup tag?

Is the cleanup tag still valid? It's been there since October, which is a really long time for a cleanup tag on such an active article, and it seems to me it should be fixed by now. --Tjstrf 00:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Flamel array

So what's the source of the name for the arrays used to seal homunculi being the "Flamel array"? I see it in the Wrath entry, but I don't remember that array ever being named. --maru (talk) contribs 17:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

• It's the symbol of alchemist Nicholas Flamel's crucified serpent/serpent cross; Edward, Alphonse, and Izumi all bear the insignia, with the mark holding sway over Dante as well. See them both below. Papacha 07:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Greed is sealed: http://fma.xezi.com/images/34/images/37.jpg

Second pic from the top left on Flamel's grave: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Flamel-figures.png

Manga vs. Anime

I've noticed that, unlike the main page, this page does not use the manga (which is the source material) as its primary information, and instead contrasts it with the anime adaptation. All of this information should be the other way around. This applies to the other character pages as well, but the problem is most glaring on this one. Might I suggest two completely separate sub-sections for "manga sins" and "anime sins"? That seems much more logical. Jbetteridge 19:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Personally I could make more use of it this way because I usually want to compare the manga and the anime versions, though that's just me. And I think the anime version is much better known than the manga version in this case. Harg 14:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with keeping the sections the way they are. Prototime 3 March 2006

• • That doesn't change the fact that the manga is the source material, and people should be encouraged to regard it as such. Jbetteridge 06:19, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

• • • Not quite, take a look at the manga page. There are seval diffrences.

As there was a limited amount of manga material available to adapt at the time of production, the storyline of the anime diverges from that of the manga around the middle of the series (around the end of book 6/start of book 7). The anime's later story and conclusion by BONES is different from the manga, which is still ongoing. This divergence in story from the manga source material, however, was planned from the beginning of production, and was not done "just because" the anime caught up with the manga source material.

The anime's list of Homunculi didn't have Japanese character names. I added them since some are pronounced differently or don't exist in the manga. (~~Ejoty September 18, 2006~~)

Homunculi's respective purposes

I'm wondering how they should be added. I'm asking mostly because the anime Wrath's purpose is kind of unclear. (Though, admittedly, I'm guessing his assigned task was to guard other Homunculi as a measure of exploiting his nigh-on invincibility.) --Juigi Kario (Charge! * My crusades) 19:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how many of them had a true purpose in the anime.

1. Pride - Figurehead of government who manuever soldiers into advantageous wars to build up wants of the stone.
2. Envy - Easy, infiltration and assassination.
3. Lust - Lure and teach budding alchemists just enough so that they'd pursue the stone. Has an information network, apparently.
4. Gluttony - I guess eating and refining the stone, though if it was made in ways outside that of Scar I wouldn't see a need for it.
5. Greed - The meatsack locked in Lab Five to keep #48 and Barry company. *grin*
6. Sloth - Another puppet in the government. Handles smaller problems beneath Bradley's attention.
7. Wrath - Wanted because he was another homunculus to add to the fold. His alchemic abilities could have proved useful to Dante. Voice of Treason 13:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

killing a homunculus

in the article it states that a peice of the human's remains must be preasent in order for the homunculus sealing circle to acctivate and cause a homunculus to expel its incomplete philosopers stones. this is untrue, even though the circle is only used two times in the series, and both times a part of the remains WERE present, the circle does not REQUIRE part of the remains to work correctly, in both situations the human remains were only used to weaken or paralyze the homunculus, thusly giving the alchemist time to activate the circle. the circle CAN be used without human remains but the chances of the target homunculs staying on the circle long enough for it to activate are highly unlikely.

Laws of alchemy?

Under Sloth, it says that all homunculi powers match up with the laws of alchemy. Exactly what are these laws? 69.192.62.63 19:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

These are all I know: Law of Equivalent Exchange: Cmon, ED and AL say it every episode for the first 25 or so! To gain, something of equal value must be lost. Law of natural providence (not sure on this one): Alchemy must keep matter and substances in their corresponding forms. For example, you can't turn Air into metal.

Bold

Someone forgot to open the bold tag in the intro, leaving the entire intro boldface. Fixed. --Platonic Nirvana 12:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Ouroburos Tattoos

what are 'Ouroburos' tattoos? The article mentions tattoo locations for each chara, but what are they? --Anoma lee 06:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Those marks tattooed on all the homonculi. If you don't know what they are, it's probably best you stop reading so the series isn't spoiled for you, as you can't be too far in yet. --tjstrf 07:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, heck no. never intend to watch this, I was just curious. --Anoma lee 10:34, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Wait a tick, did pride actually kill selim?

Did the sow make it clear he did? Cause I don't think he did.....

Come to think of it, I don't think his fate was made clear...199.126.137.209 11:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Too much original research

Going through this article, I am seeing way too many "it is likely that..."s, "Presumably..."s and unsourced theories. I recommend deleting them on site, and not adding them. 199.126.137.209 11:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Lusts's Creation (Anime)

"Lust - Scar's elder brother - (To resurrect his lost lover) - Reproductive organs"

What evidence is there in the show that scar's brother sacrificed his balls for the transmutation? perhaps I missed that. Ziiv 21:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

None. Absolutely none other than fan theories. Feel free to get rid of it. 199.126.137.209 00:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

you mean besides the fact that he is bleeding from his genital area in the flashback ?68.4.42.99 04:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

We saw that he had blood on his pants in that area, but that's all we saw. The inference is obvious, but it is also clearly an inference and we are not allowed to make those as Wikipedia editors. If we could find someone else who noticed that and published it, then we could use it, but otherwise we can only report what we see directly and none of our guesses about the meaning of any of it. Including our guesses is called Original Research.-- Lilwik 05:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

acually omniplex, the makers of the anime, staed in a interview for it to be true. try google-ing it. also so is saying that bradly killed selim, as that is also inference.68.4.42.99 02:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Separate character articles?

The page is quite long and bulky. Should the Homunculi be split into separate articles, and have this page just be focused on what they are, their creation, and other stuff like that? Nemu 17:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You are right. We want each homunculus has his/her own article, like in spanish and portuguese languages. I just adore them. They appears as perfect articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

HELP (need help understanding one thing)

"All Homunculi bear the mark of the Ouroboros, though the location of the tattoo varies from Homunculus to Homunculus. The winged serpent consuming its own tail represents the cycle of life and death through which the Homunculi constantly pass. "

I have tried my hardest to understand what this means but I dont!! I'm lost as hell what this means. this is the only thing i dont understand in FMA. could someone expplain this to me. I guess 1 thing to note is that when envy was in snake form and didnt kill hoiemheim; like how the snake in the orubobos never bites down on its tail i ALMOST got the meaning. I still dont. pleas help me. I have read the article and still lost.Angelofdeath275 05:24, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Pride... the worst of all sins?

As I'm sure many of you know, Pride is considered the worst of all the 7 deadly sins. I'm wondering now why he was not made the strongest and most powerful of all the homunculus.... does anyone know why?

He probably will be, if you were to actually read the manga. The so-called "Pride" of the anime is really the homonculus Wrath from the manga. Anime's Wrath is a filler character with no manga presence. --tjstrf Now on editor review! 00:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This is what gets me, and I've never been able to fully comprehend why anyone thinks Pride is the worse of the seven sins, because it's not. By far. If anyone delves really far into the aspects of each Sin and just how it coinsides with the real world, you'd notice that Greed takes the tally in mass of brutal ownership.

When you boil down to it, look at how the workings of the world is. Nine times out of ten, Greed ends up being the instigator or the finalizer in almost any negatitive or volatile situation. Money plays a heavy part in a lot of situations, that or dissatisfaction. I fail to see how a variation of vanity can really cause one to go out and send a cascading chain of reactions that seem to stem from the outcomes that appear to be derived from continious and unappeased thirsts for gaining or bettering something or someone. They say money -is- the root of all Greed, and when you think about it, most of the time, that is the causer of a lot of the world's problems. (Input - Edward - March 4th 2007)

Pride is so egocentric, sarcastic and ... I do not have more to say. Due to his Ultimate Eye and his sword- changing air currents on battle- he is the hardest foe to defeat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Gluttony's transformation

I don't know if this has ever been mentioned, but the booklet included with the Conqueror of Shamballa DVD actually suggests a reason for Gluttony's transformation that isn't included as a possible reason under his section. Of course, the problem is that I have no way of verifying the authenticity of this claim other than other third parties who also own the CoS DVD and can attest to this by reading the booklet themselves. All that being said, I'll merely quote the text I'm referring to:

A Transformed Gluttony appears before Alphonse, who is trying to open the gate from the Amestris side. A homunculus that had his crest of Ouroboros erased became the embodiment of hunger and made his lair in the underground city. His body has become so abnormal probably because he's been eating dirt. Wrath picks up the fallen crimson stones and absorbs it as a source of energy. Gluttony's body becomes the catalyst for a human transmutation...

 - Fullmetal Alchemist The Movie Conqueror of Shamballa Guide Book (under "Gluttony and Human Transmutation")

I didn't want to edit the page myself because, as you can tell, I'm new (and I mean new) at this, but I still wanted to provide some sort of useful insight. The guide book that I found this information in could also be useful for a lot of other FMA-related articles on here.

--EXXXpletiveDeleted 00:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Like any homunculus, Gluttony has a true form. Homever, he did not show it. That horrible transformation is technically his true, modified form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Death of Lust needs editing

Before her death, Lust wonders: where will she go when she dies amd of the sole reason she wanted to become a human was to find a way out.

What is this supposed to mean? I expect that "amd" should be "and" but even then it does not seem to be grammatically correct. I am sure that all that is needed is a small edit, but I am not sure what this is supposed to say. Unfortunately, I have not seen Lust's death, so I don't know.Lilwik 04:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok. In episode 46, Lust is temporally paralyzed with the case that contained Sacr`s brother`s girlfriend. Thus, she is fatally weakened in the Flamel array with that remains, and sealed and slashed by Wrath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Greed can use alchemy?

It says that Greed can use alchemy in a recent addition, but surely that must be wrong. Does anyone know where that comes from? Lilwik 04:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

FMA canon (at least in the anime) is that homunculi cannot perform alchemy (exception for Wrath, who possesses Ed's missing arm and leg), and their superhuman abilities are not considered alchemy. --Stratadrake 13:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought so. Greed cannot use alchemy, so I have edited out that bit that said he could. Their superhuman abilities are not considered alchemy because alchemy cannot be used to alter the alchemist's own body, so the things that a homunculus can do and the things that an alchemist can do are entirely disjoint. (And Wrath gets the best of both worlds, or at least a freaky blending of the two.) Lilwik 07:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

They got that from C.C. were he ses "to think there's a homunculi other than me who can use alchemy" were "they" got that I don't know. thedaklonewolf. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedarklonewolf (talk • contribs) 07:47, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

References?

I have recently been pondering this statement about Lust that I read in this article:

She has also lashed out thin projectiles from her fingertips from time to time (which are never physically seen, but are depicted as a glimmering strand no thicker than the breadth of a strand of hair), although it is possible they are only her fingers in their traditional use.

I have never seen her do that, and it sounds a bit unlikely. A humunculus doesn't suddenly get new abilities in my experience. They all have very specific abilities and there are no surprise abilities after the abilities of a humunculus have been revealed. I am also uncertain of what it means by "It is possible they are only her fingers in their traditional use." What exactly is this traditional use? The traditional uses of fingers are what humans tend to use them for: picking stuff up. The traditional use for Lust's fingers is lancing stuff. These glimmering strands do not sound like either of those things.

It seems that it would be best if we could have more references in this article. Surely that wouldn't be hard; the references are all just episodes of the show. A real FMA fan should have it all at his fingertips, right? I am especially curious about where we find Lust doing this strange thing with glimmering strands. -- Lilwik 07:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Well in the anime, she does use these long needle-like "weapons" to attack her enemies, I'm not entirely sure if they are actually a hair-width but she has been seen to use them. However, it's not entirely revealed where these projectiles come from, whether from her fingernails or tips, I'm not sure. Unknown Dragon 00:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Sloth's breast?

It seems that we are getting into a bit of a war over whether there should be a link to the Breast article from the section on Sloth. I don't think that Sloth's breasts are particularly important to her character. After all, she's not Lust. The link seems more than a little out of place, but if people are reverting and re-reverting to fight over this link then it should be discussed here. Right? -- Lilwik 07:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would have expected a discussion here if someone considered it important enough to start a revert-a-thon (which I have ended, since I have no interest in participating). The problem is not whether to mention the breast, as that seems to be clearly appropriate. The problem is that one user believes we shouldn't wikilink to the breast article. The user cites only two concerns, firstly that it is apparently only there as a childish pointing-out of the fact that we used the word breast. That concern is extraneous, since the "motives" behind a wikilink can't be assumed and because this isn't a good reason to unlink something anyway. The other concern is that we can't link to "common" words "often" - which might be a problem, except that the word "breast" is used exactly once in the entire article. That doesn't sound like often to me. But I don't care, if this user wishes to cheapen the article and Wikipedia as a whole by removing wikilinks (one of the most important parts of Wikipedia), that's fine. I'm not in the business of getting into conflicts, and beyond this initial comment, you can count me out of this argument (until, perhaps, someone might decide to draw me back in). Cheeser1 07:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

But there is no context for wikilinking it in the first place. (For comparison, the Wii article went through several reverts over whether the word "urine" should be mentioned, and whether or not it should be wikilinked.)

Everyone already knows what a breast is, in this scenario it is being used as an ordinary word whose source article contributes no further information relevant to the article in which the link appears. So not only is there no rationale supporting that it should be linked, but it falls under the rationale of things that should not be linked. --Stratadrake 17:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And I disagree (yes, your assessment is actually not absolute fact, and my reading of policy and experience on Wikipedia leads me to disagree). I find it perfectly rational that, in context, we may as well link to it to provide further explaination and information about a body part that is, of course, worth mentioning. There is 100% no problem with overlinking in this article, and providing that wikilink, in my opinion, is helpful and contextual. We disagree. Oh well. Like I said, I don't care, do whatever you want. I'm not interested in arguing subjective nonsense, not with you or anyone else. I'm done with this and I'm done with the lot of you. Cheeser1 18:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:CONTEXT is guideline, not policy; still, "breast" does not fall under any of its examples on what to link, and falls under example #1 on what not to link. --Stratadrake 20:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

PS: Also agreeing that this is a rather lame issue to argue over. My stance is that we have no more reason to link "breast" in this context than we would have for linking "chest", "tongue", "thigh", "hand", "foot", "eye" (where the other Homunculi's tattooes are located), or to point it out, any other normal word which appears in the article. --Stratadrake 20:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that the key point is that in this article we are using the word 'breast' merely to indicate a location on Sloth's body. The structure, function, or nature of Sloth's breasts or breasts in general are not in any way relevant to Fullmetal Alchemist or Homunculi (except perhaps Lust). I think a normal word could be linked if the corresponding article was important to the subject, but while the word 'breast' is needed, the article that is being linked to is completely useless in this context. -- Lilwik 23:55, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. For that matter, the whole issue of where the Homunculi's Ouroburos tattoos are located is pretty trivial to begin with. The tattooes are a sign that they are Homunculi, but the actual location of the mark is of little concern. It's a piece of integrated trivia -- interesting but not important. --Stratadrake 16:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It is only trivial if you imagine that it has no significance, that the location of the mark for each homunculus was chosen at random, but I think they were placed purposefully. It is obviously fitting that gluttony's mark is on his tongue because he likes to eat and Greed's mark was on his hand because he likes to take. Those two are especially obvious, so I suspect that the others also have meanings behind their marks even if I'm not as certain about why. Lust's mark is not far from her heart, perhaps suggesting a connection with love. Sloth's mark is famously on her breast, perhaps in connection with motherhood. The fact that Pride's mark is on his eye might just be in connection with his power or it might have some deeper meaning. Wrath's left foot is a mystery to me, but I'd hardly call it trivial that his mark is there: someone might be able to figure out an explanation for that placement. (Of course, speculation like that doesn't belong in the article, but the locations of the marks definitely do.) -- Lilwik 20:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You know, I never thought of it like that. Though even so, the placement of their tattoo has about as much importance to the plot as their eye color. Hidden symbolism is interesting, but not always important. --Stratadrake 04:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Is the importance to the plot a determining factor in whether something should be in this article? It seems to me that this article is about the homunculi as characters in the anime, their personality, appearance, and major events. If there is anything symbolic about them then that seems perfect for this article. I don't mean guessing about what the symbolism represents, but the symbols themselves. -- Lilwik 05:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

All the wikilinks in a good article like Aretha Franklin, for example, seem to contradict the arguments against. After all, everybody "should" know what Michigan is. Everybody "should" know what the year 2006 is. Everybody "should" know what American is. I could go on.

Perhaps it contradicts some of the arguments, but not the important ones. I think the real reason that "breast" should not be linked has nothing to do with the fact that "breast" is a common word and everyone knows what a breast is. The reason is that the Breast article is irrelevant in this context and supplies no insight into anything talked about in this article. The only possible use that the breast article could be would be in telling people the location of the breast on the body and you could get that from any dictionary. -- Lilwik 05:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

((Which might be why I find this edit summary unintentionally humorous. --Stratadrake 07:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC) ))

In the case of Aretha Franklin, Michigan really is relevant and important because it is her home state and learning about it might give the reader some sort of insight into the person. Now take a look at the breast article and see nothing but scientific details of anatomy. That is a scientific article that is completely useless in understanding Fullmetal Alchemist or Sloth. -- Lilwik 05:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Wrath can age?

The article says that Wrath is one of the few homunculi that can age, but I think that is in doubt. We do not know why he came out of the gate in the form of a boy instead of as a baby, but the things that happen inside the gate are mysterious and unexplained and we should not assume that Wrath has the ability to age in the same way as Pride. After all, Dante still seemed proud of Pride's ability to age even after after she knew about Wrath. -- Lilwik 09:07, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• I was just looking at the manga page and it turn out that Pride is called Wrath in the manga, I'm currently trying to find out why the names were switched. --Bobby D. DS. 19:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Envy's Role Towards the end of the Series

Hey all, I'm new to this page having just branched out from academic to pop culture Wikipedia articles.

A few minutes ago I included this sentence: "towards the end of the series, as Lust's loyalty towards Dante wanes, Envy emerges as the primary Homunculus antagonist." It was reverted because it was labelled "incomprehensible." I'm guessing incomprehensible didn't mean unintelligble sentence structure, so I'll address what I think the user meant -- that the sentence isn't supportable.

It seems to me that towards the beginning of the series, Lust takes center stage as far as the Homunculi are concerned. Towards the end of the series, however, as she doubts Dante's intentions, joins with Ed, and eventually dies, Envy seems to step in and fill that role. The fourth ending and opening both seem to place more of an emphasis on Envy (moreso the ending, but the close up of his evil seemed so to me as well). He kicks the crap out of Wrath and is the one who ultimately seems to be at Dante's beck and call now that Lust is gone. I mean, he's even the one who kills Ed and confronts him at the gate.

I understand how the sentence might be seen as POV, but I just wanted to explain it a bit more. I thought Envy's emerging role towards the end of the series deserved a one sentence mention. SpiderMMB 08:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Original research. I labelled it incomprehensible because I read by too fast. However, it still has problems. ' 08:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Can someone give me reference to this?

Envy visited the wretched creature that resulted from the failed human transmutation. After feeding on some red stones given to her by Envy, the creature took human shape and was given her name <--------this was found in the Lust text in which episode does this appear User:Envidia

Gluttony uses mouth as gun?

In one of the later episodes ("Dante of the Deep Forest), while hiding in a group of outcasts with Lust, Gluttony apparently shoots one of the guys, causing the group to riot against the military. He just uses his mouth and makes gun sounds, but bullet holes appeared on the guy's body. Any ideas on this one? Doesn't seem to be related to his other powers (acidic saliva and ability to eat just about anything). Should we put it in the article?Avatarian86 22:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Surely it relates to acidic saliva. I imagine that Gluttony is spitting to make those holes. However, I don't know where we could find a source to clearly settle that uncertainty. -- Lilwik 23:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression Lust was stabbing them at rapid speeds whilst Gluttony made the gun noises to give the illusion of gunfire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.108.163 (talk) 03:52, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Yes! While Gluttony was making "boom, boom", lust was stabbing Yoki by launching her blades lightly( or quickly). —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have noticed this about homuculi and original forms

I have noticed that the homunculis' names seem to reflect the opposite of who they had been before they were tried to become real. now we don't know half of the homunculi past so this is just an idea

Sloth (laziness)- ed's and al's mother was a hard worker Lust - She was in love with scars brother Wrath - he was a baby so he couldn't be angry or (wrathful) please reply

Neverknowndragon

I love speculating about this sort of thing, but we've got to be aware that stuff like that is entirely speculation. It has no place in this article. Plus, I don't agree that the humunculi are opposite to the humans they were intended to be; they are just very different. Sloth is different in countless ways from Ed and Al's mother, for example. -- Lilwik 07:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I know they weren't intended but it seems to be some correlation with the (sin)name and the person they used to be