Talk:Henry A. P. Carter

Can we really call him "American"?

(pinging the two most active editors on this article)

@W Nowicki: @KAVEBEAR:

Is it accurate to say that Henry A. P. Carter "was an American" when he was born in Hawaii, clearly was a Hawaiian citizen, & served the Hawaiian monarchy? The only thing in the article that indicates any connection with America was that his parents & cousins were American. I see nothing in the article to indicate that he claimed Americian citizenship.

I know that simply saying that he was Hawaiian would be fraught other implications, since "Hawaiian" is often associated with "Native Hawaiian". However, I think it would be more accurate to call him a "citizen of Hawaii" rather than using "American" as an euphemism for "a Caucasian citizen of Hawaii born in Hawaii whose ancestor(s) was (were) from the United States."

Peaceray (talk) 15:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

American is fine. You have to note the fact that Carter lived in the US for an extended period of time, had business ties, and freely moved between the two nations during his lifetime. It just tricky here because he did not lived long enough to witness the 1898 annexation unlike Sanford B. Dole for example. Also it may be too rash for us to assume he did not claim Americian citizenship until we have sources indicating this. Citizenship and self-identity during the monarchy was very fluid; the American and British often wore two hats as people identifying with their paternal heritage and Kingdom of Hawaii citizens and subject.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:43, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Nevertheless, he seems to be a Hawaiian citizen first, as evident from birth & service, so why we not identify him as that first, & American second. Peaceray (talk) 18:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

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