Talk:Grenoble Alpes University
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Merger
editSee Talk:Centre de recherche sur l'imaginaire. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:09, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Requested move 8 October 2017
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Grenoble Alps University → Université Grenoble Alpes – In English sources, this translation (Grenoble Alps University) is not used. It is referred to as and officially titled in English as the Université Grenoble Alpes. This is the case with many French universities. For example, the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne. An example that does officially use an English translation would be Pierre and Marie Curie University. It varies depending on the institution. In this case, Université Grenoble Alpes is the name. Malayy (talk) 04:09, 8 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:28, 15 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 03:29, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support Per WP:UE#No established usage in English-language sources which states "It can happen that an otherwise notable topic has not yet received much attention in the English-speaking world, so that there are too few sources in English to constitute an established usage...If this happens, follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about (German for German politicians, Turkish for Turkish rivers, Portuguese for Brazilian municipalities etc.)." Also for consistency with other French university articles. AusLondonder (talk) 17:46, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support. If there are insufficient sources in English to establish usage then we go with the French sources. And I have no reason to doubt this. I tried a Google search on "Grenoble Alps University" -Wikipedia and got nothing; "Grenoble Alpes University" -Wikipedia got more than 62,000 ghits but the ones I examined were all false positives. So the current title is not English usage at all, but a Wikipedia translation. Andrewa (talk) 18:44, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Université Grenoble Alpes, the proposed move location, currently redirects to Community Grenoble Alpes University. I am not seeing evidence of this connection being considered in any of the existing discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943 (talk) 03:29, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
- Comment There seems to be at least some usage[1], though the majority of publications seem to use the original french name indeed. I guess if a redirect is left it's ok. Saturnalia0 (talk) 20:35, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:UE. What's next - are we going to move the "Germany" article to "Deutschland"? Academicoffee71 (talk) 02:49, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
- Since when is "Deutschland" the most commonly used name in English sources? Malayy (talk) 21:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Requested move 16 December 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved. No opposition in two weeks of listing, and the proposal makes valid points. — Amakuru (talk) 13:01, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Université Grenoble Alpes → Grenoble Alpes University – I'm sorry to trouble people over a move request that was made and decided two years ago, but I am concerned that the decision may have been reached without taking into account important two relevant considerations. To my mind, these considerations call for a different decision: using the term "University" in the article title, instead of "Université", and applying the corresponding English-language word order, by which "University" would appear at the end of the article title, rather than at the beginning. MyPOV (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2019 (UTC)—Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 01:46, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
The first consideration, which comes from Wikipedia's WP:USEENGLISH policy, has to do with reliable sources. The policy statement starts: "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources)." No reliable sources were identified in the earlier discussion, but there are two "major news sources" that I was able to identify: Reuters [2] and The Times [3], which both refer to the university as "Grenoble Alpes University" in their well-known international university rankings. It is possible that these sources were not available at the time of the earlier decision.
The second consideration has to do with Wikipedia's translation convention for university names. The policy on article titles, WP:AT#Foreign_names_and_anglicization, states: "For lesser known geographical objects or structures with few reliable English sources, follow the translation convention, if any, used for well known objects or structures of the same type". I think it is fair to read this guidance as applying by analogy to names that are not geographical names: when there is a translation convention for entities that are well known, that same convention should apply to entities that are lesser known. In this case, Wikipedia's translation convention for university names is to use "University" instead of the equivalent foreign language term. For guidance, I looked at lists of universities for three large non-English-speaking countries. For 53 Brazilian federal universities, all article titles use "University" rather than "Universidade". For 85 German universities, all but three article titles use "University" rather than "Universität" (the exceptions are Technische Universität Ilmenau, TU Dresden, and Technische Universität Darmstadt). For 79 Spanish universities, all but four article titles use "University" rather than "Universidad" (the exceptions being Universidad Politécnica de Cartagena, Universidad Católica San Antonio de Murcia, Universidad Camilo José Cela, and Universidad CEU San Pablo). Consistency with other French university articles was invoked in the previous discussion, but of 67 articles on public universities in France, all but one use "University" in the title, rather than "Université", with Université Grenoble Alpes being the only exception.
Pinging participants from the earlier discussion: @Amakuru:, @Malayy:, @DrStrauss:, @Steel1943:, @AusLondonder:, @Andrewa:, @Saturnalia0:@Academicoffee71: MyPOV (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.