Talk:George Willis Pack

Were Pack and Vance friends

When Pack made his gift to the Vance Monument, there was no mention of the two knowing each other in local newspapers. And Vance did not attend the dedication of the monument. Several decades after Pack died, a newspaper noted that Pack made the gift for the monument because he admired Vance but was not one of those who attended the funeral of Vance. A friendship between the two men is unlikely. When Pack moved to Asheville, Vance lived in Washington, D.C. At this time, Pack also lived in Ohio and Michigan. A couple of years after Pack started spending his winters in Asheville, Vance became ill and traveled to Egypt, England, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, and Scotland for his health. Vance them when to Florida—while the Senate was in session, meaning Vance was so ill that he was barely performing his duties as a Senator. While all of this does not rule out a meeting between the two men, it is very unlikely that the two were ever friends. Although one or two sources mention this "friendship", none are contemporary and do not cite sources on this matter. Rublamb (talk) 19:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:George Willis Pack/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Rublamb (talk · contribs) 20:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 17:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

I'll be reviewing this over the next few days. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

General comments

First look: Looks good on first read, will leave notes as I review.

Sorry, when I said I'd close I thought you had made your way through it all. Happy with edits so far. Also sorry for the confusion re; MOS:DATED, I only meant add "as of 1994" or equivalent, not wholesale removal. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 19:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Prose and content

•  Done "Anti slavery" -> "Abolitionist" and link Abolitionism in the United States. Comment: The anti-slavery movement and abolitionism were different in the 19th century. Smith was an anti-slavery movement leader who later became an abolitionist. According to Britannica, Smith changed to abolitionism in 1835, so it is fair to describe him as an abolitionist at the time he would have been Pack's Sunday school teacher. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
•  Done Confusing whether he was living with his family or just dad in Sanilac County and Lexington. Comment: The source just says he went to Sanilac with his father. However, census records confirm that his mother was in Lexington in 1850. I have adjusted the text to reflect that the entire family moved to Lexington.
•  Done Any idea of when his holdings were 5,000 acres? "Eventually is very vague". Comment: The source does not say. Hopefully, my update to the text makes it better.
•  Done Do you know if Pine River is listed at Pine River (Michigan)
•  Done The company operated in Oscoda, Michigan, in 1882 beginning in 1882?
•  Done was considered one of the finest in the world attribution
•  Done Move he deeded lots in Montford... to the philanthropy section
•  Done What was Pack's role in the case of streetcar pole removal? Is it just that he was president at the time of Detroit Railway? Comment: There are newspaper articles covering more than a full page on the court case. Pack was president, so he signed every complaint with the city and the lawsuit. Honestly, I think Albert Pack was the boots on the ground in terms of running the company, but it may just look that way because he lived in Detroit and was accessible to the newspapers. I added more details about the railway, with a source that mentions Pack several times. Let me know if you think I need to do something else. FYI: Wm Henry Taft was one of the judges who ruled on the court case.

I'm really glad you added this material. Some of the most meaty stuff in the article.

•  Done So did he start the Detroit Railway?
•  Done Aston Park on South French Broad Avenue are there more than one Aston Parks?
•  Done On May 30, 1896, Pack wrote the Buncombe County Commissioners, "Gentlemen: If the County of Buncombe will give the land in front of the court house for a site for a monument in honor of Zebulon B. Vance, I will give $2,000 toward the erection of such a monument." quite redundant given preceding sentence, can be reworded in prose
•  Done and also covered the expense of converting the bank into a library. Yes, isn't this why he bought the building? Redundant. Comment: Buying the building and paying for renovation costs and furnishings are not the same thing. Hopefully, my copy edits make this easier to understand.
•  Done In 1911, Asheville Public Library was renamed Pack Memorial Public Library in his honor. WP:POSA re in his honor
•  Done Their children included Did they have other children beyond those listed?
•  Done The Pack family moved to Port Huron, Michigan, in 1857 mentioned twice
• renovate and expand the properties, resulting in a combined thirty-room house if the houses were combined this should be alongside renovate and expand, or substituting them.
•  DoneThey stayed at the city's finest hotel I can only see this in one source, and it doesn't make as strong a claim
•  Done However, they retained an Ohio residence, using Asheville as their winter home this seems at odds with Pack moved to Asheville, North Carolina, for his wife's health in 1884.
•  Done He was interested in golf and donated the grounds and golf links to the Swannanoa Hunt Club I don't really know what golf links are, but having read the Wiki page I think if you are donating golf links you are necessarily donating the grounds? Comment: He actually paid for the property, construction of the links (a type of golf course?), and a building. The grounds were more extensive than the golf course, but I don't think that really matters. See if my update makes more sense.
•  Done Suggestions: Pack's portrait was commissioned and still hangs and Another portrait of Pack is on display in the library MOS:DATED Comment: After hanging in both locations for more than 100 years, I feel it is pretty safe to state the portraits are still there. But I removed that content as suggested.
•  Done When the portrait was installed, Locke Craig spoke, saying, "He made these gifts not at the request of anyone. Needed though they were, indispensable as they now appear, they always come to us as a surprise. They were all the result of his own generous impulse: they were made, not as an invitation to praise or flattery, but modestly, unostentatiously, with no self-laudation ... he gave because he wanted to give." Yes, we have already stated he is a philanthropist. If it needs to be included, can be reworded in prose as "Craig spoke at the portrait's installation, praising Pack's generous giving."
•  Done Pack Square, which bears his name
•  Done Pack is credited with naming attribute, or just Packed named

Sources

• Cite inflation figures - Comment: this is provided by the Wikipedia inflation template and, therefore, does not require a source

Citations for the template are provided, through Template:Inflation/fn. Annoying they are not bundled. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 03:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

•  Done The ncpedia article is a reproduction of the Dictionary of North Carolina Biography which should be what is referenced.
•  Done Romantic Asheville not RS

Spot Check:

1) In 1857, he became involved with real estate around Fort Gratiot Township, Michigan.: Don't think he became involved with real estate around Fort Gratiot Township at this time. Maybe you can link me to what in the source this is referencing. Response: No idea what the correct source is. I replaced that with other content and a correct citation.

2) The latter was originally a public park for African Americans. Doesn't seem true. "The area around the park was already fairly integrated at the time." Response: The Montford neighborhood was designed for wealthy white people, with backing streets where the Black domestics lived. This was unusual at the time because it was considered a "mixed" or "integrated" neighborhood. Elsewhere in Asheville at the time, neighborhoods were all Black or all White. However, even in Montford, public facilities such as parks were segregated because this was during Reconstruction in the South. White girls would not be allowed to stroll in a park around Black men.

3) The local courts also adjourned in his honor. Y

4) Their children included son Charles Lathrop Pack (1857) and daughters Mary (1860), Millicent (1865, died as an infant), and Beaulah (1869). Y  Done c(nitpick: spelling of Beulah)

5) This resulted in a court case that went to the Supreme Court of the United States in 1898. Y

6) In 1861, Pack and John L. Woods established Carrington, Pack & Company, a sawmill in Sand Beach Township, Michigan, that operated for nine years. seems incorrect, given the source says he incorporated it in 1894. Can you provide me blockquotes from the second source provided, as I can't access it?

Response: I think the issue is that the ran the sawmill at that site for nine years, but the company continued elsewhere. (Either that or Helen Wykle has a typo in her article; it does make more sense that the company was incorporated in 1864 than in 1894. Helen has retired or else I would ask her to check.) I updated the text to make that clearer. Here is the quote you requested: "His operations as a lumberman were at first in but a small way, but aided by intuitive and thoughtfully acquired intelligence with regard to lumber manufacture and sale he rapidly assumed a prominent place in the lumber business as the dominant force in large lumber manufacturing and wholesaling concerns of the north, those including Carrington Pack & Co which cut timber for nine years at Sand Beach Mich, Pack Jenks & Co with eleven years to its credit at Rock Falls Mich Woods & Co which operated eight years at Port Crescent Mich Woods Pack & Co which existed at Alpena Mich for ten years Woods Perry & Co twenty three years a dominant factor in the commercial life of Cleveland Ohio Pack Woods & Co for nearly two generations in existence in Cleveland and Pack Gray & Co of that city…."

7) On February 1, 1899, Pack offered to purchase the former First National Bank building to consolidate the city's library collections as the Asheville Public Library. Y  Done (nitpick to above nitpick) Feb 1 is when his proposal to purchase the property was received, not when offered; adjust text to clarify.

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 17:47, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I believe I have addressed all of your concerns. Let me know if you see anything else. Rublamb (talk) 00:07, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Great job on this, happy to promote. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 00:23, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Everything Else

• Images: good, appropriately tagged Y
• Stable Y
• Neutral Y
• OR/COPYVIO Y

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.