Talk:Freyr

References

Don't use these on talk pages, people...  — LlywelynII 04:36, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Using Deity/Deities when speaking generically.

What is wrong with using deity or deities when speaking generically?

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 10:04, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Just saying that gods are deities but not all deities are gods. Some are goddesses. I am not arguing from any political correctness standpoint rather from a technical correctness standpoint. There are male deities (gods) and female deities (goddesses). Just saying that there is a more generic term for both (gods and goddesses) so why not use it? It is like saying that Emperors are Imperials but not all Imperials are Emperors. Some are Empresses. Likewise Kings are royalty but not all royalty are kings. Some are queens.

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 04:32, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

You seem to be confused. 'The common nouns god and deity are synonyms in the English language. That doesn't change when the nouns are pluralized. The term god is also far more common than deity in the English language and it is probably for this reason that this term is used here. :bloodofox: (talk) 06:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

"You seem to be confused.": I do not think so. "'The common nouns god and deity are synonyms in the English language.": I know that. But I also know that it is incorrect for them to be so. "That doesn't change when the nouns are pluralized.": Same response to the singular form. "The term god is also far more common than deity in the English language and it is probably for this reason that this term is used here.": I understand that but it is still used incorrectly.

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

See linguistic prescriptivism. No one gets to decide what is 'correct' and 'incorrect' in the English language—certainly not an anonymous Wikipedia editor. Since you have no valid reason for these edits, they'll simply be reverted whenever they're made unless other corrective action occurs. :bloodofox: (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

"Since you have no valid reason for these edits, they'll simply be reverted whenever they're made unless other corrective action occurs.": No valid reason? Does not my first line of argument count for anything?

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 03:12, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Again, you seem to be confused. Both gods and goddesses are gods. Is English a second language for you? :bloodofox: (talk) 03:30, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

"Again, you seem to be confused.": I do not think I am. "Both gods' and 'goddesses' are 'gods'.": That is like saying both Emperors and Empresses are Emperors. "Is English a second language for you?": No.

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 09:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Then what you need is a standard English dictionary. Both gods and goddesses are gods. This is "correct" in so far that this is common English usage. Your personal, idiosyncratic preferences do not take precedent over standard English usage on Wikipedia. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

"Then what you need is a standard English dictionary.": Based on British English, U.S.A English, Australian English, another country's English e.t.c.? "This is "correct" in so far that this is common English usage.": Common usage does not necessarily equal correct usage.

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 09:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm done with this conversation. Until you have an argument why the original usage of "gods" on this article is inferior to "deities", I'm going to go ahead and assume you're trolling. As a result, you'll simply be reverted without further discussion anywhere you feel necessary to purge an article of the term "gods" in place of "deities". :bloodofox: (talk) 18:59, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I am no troll.

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 23:17, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Dark-coloured Victims

Wouldn't this probably be referring to hair-colour, considering the scarcity of bruthas in ancient Scandinavia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.76.231.228 (talk) 07:48, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Toponyms in Old Norse ...?

Hi,
any particular reason that the toponyms from Norway are spelled with Old Norse or Icelandic ortography?
Like "Freysvǫllr" for "Frøysvoll", etc.? Seems like a back-formation. It isn't done with toponyms in Sweden, so why not keep it consistent?.
T 88.89.5.214 (talk) 00:02, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.heimskringla.no/original/edda/grimnismal.php
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• Added archive http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/20051231070651/http://www.heimskringla.no/original/heimskringla/ynglingasaga.php to http://www.heimskringla.no/original/heimskringla/ynglingasaga.php
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Requested move 14 October 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Redirects or disambiguation pages can be created at editorial discretion or through further discussion outside of the RM process TonyBallioni (talk) 06:20, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

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Freyr → Frey – Frey is the extremely common anglicized name according to ngram 86.97.129.224 (talk) 06:08, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

• @86.97.129.224: And Freyja to Freya. Better discuss these 2 moves. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose pending a more convincing rationale. The n-grams graph is not convincing, since Frey is not typically referring to Freyr, but rather refers to lots of people named Frey. It looks to me like it makes more sense to go the other way, and move Frey (disambiguation) to Frey. Dicklyon (talk) 04:42, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose I support Dicklyon's suggestion to make Frey the disambiguation page for the name Frey, and link it to Freyr as referring to the Norse god._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 09:22, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
• Support as nominator Frey is the overwhelmingly common name for the god Frey in English, as it is the anglicization of the term Freyr. Most English speakers who have a common knowledge of the subject won't even know what is Freyr. The disambiguation shouldn't be moved to Frey as the deity is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, WP:RECENT applies in the case of other Frey's. The same condition is true for Freya. On the WP:ENGLISH Wikipedia, we have to use to English term, not the Norse term. We don't use "Odinn" for Odin or "Torr" for Thor just because the original Norse term was written in that way. We use the WP:COMMONNAME for them in English, which may have something to do with Marvel. For Freyr and Freyja, the common names in English are Frey and Freya.

The Oxford Dictionary, which is the standard authority of words in English, uses Frey and Freya respectively. The dictionary doesn't even list Freyja as an alternative term in English, a merit Freyr has. Other English dictionaries such as Merriam-Webster and others also use Frey and Freya at an overwhelming level. I haven't seen any other reputable dictionary writing Freyr or Freyja, unless it is written as a synonym/redirect for Frey and Freya. 86.97.129.224 (talk) 11:24, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

• Comment @LlywelynII: has shown his interest in moving this article to Frey earlier. Their comment was

"The current intro reads Freyr (sometimes anglicized Frey which is utter poppycock. The guy's name is overwhelmingly Frey, just like any other name from Old Norse (Olaf, not Olafr). Given that Frey is the WP:ENGLISH WP:COMMONNAME of this God both among laypeople and professional scholars, is there some very good reason for the page being here? or does it need to be moved?" 86.97.129.224 (talk) 12:25, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

• Comment @Andrewa: For their opinion about this. 86.97.129.224 (talk) 15:31, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Keep the nominative -r. Keep Frey a redirect to Freyr. Freyr appears in a mountain of academic material, which dwarfs any other form in usage. In the English-speaking world, Freyr has yet to see the pop culture representation that figures such as Odin and Thor have. (And if you haven't already, see WP:OLDNORSE.) :bloodofox: (talk) 03:18, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

The above links show that Frey appears more in academic sources than Freyr. 86.98.77.91 (talk) 03:37, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure which link you're referring to. I'm assuming you're referring to Google Scholar. If so, no, it doesn't. Google Scholar picks up a lot of general audience works, unrelated items, and outright blather, as any search demonstrates. Search results yield a tiny fragment of what's out there. Specialist texts stick to Old Norse forms with few exceptions — and for very good reason. :bloodofox: (talk) 05:38, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Look at this line from WP:OLDNORSE -"When no particular Anglicized form can be said to be in common use in everyday English and English speaking scholars use the standardized Old Norse spelling, use the standardized Old Norse spelling except replace the o-ogonek character (ǫ) with the character 'ö'." However, Frey is a common term that is used in everyday English and hence an exception to the policy, even if there is no huge coverage like Thor or Odin. If Google Scholar too can't be treated for comparing the terms, then what can be used here, eh? (Ngram etc exhausted) I have given links to Oxford Dictionary and Merriam Webster, which are English dictionaries. They use Frey, which is enough to prove that Frey is a more common English term than Freyr. Academics use both Frey and Freyr, if you just go through the Scholar link manually, you can see that. Hence an exception to WP:OLDNORSE. Then WP:COMMONNAME can be applied, where Frey is common. 86.97.129.224 (talk) 11:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

"Frey" is by no means "a common term used in everyday English". As I mentioned above, the figure has nowhere near the presence in popular culture as Thor or Odin. Can you think of a single reasonably well known reference to Freyr in English-speaking modern popular culture? Speciality works dwarf popular culture mentions in this case, which means the Old Norse form is what we defer to, as scholars who specialize in this material overwhelmingly do. :bloodofox: (talk) 05:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose On the basis of a poor and unconvincing rationale and the usual misunderstanding of WP:UE. AusLondonder (talk) 17:27, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose due to rationale Currently, this should be opposed due to the conditions of WP:OLDNORSE. However, fellow IP has a point about WP:ENGLISH and common people not recognizing. If changes are made to the policy OLDNORSE, I would support this. Also, OLDNORSE states that all alternate names be mentioned in the lead, which was not the case before I edited the article. 31.215.114.79 (talk) 11:40, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
• Neutral, but support continuing redirection of Frey to Freyr if the article is not moved. Very common way of referring to the Norse god and definitely the primary meaning of Frey. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:22, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
• Possible support Reached this spot after following a problematic shared IP. Frey is shown to be more common than Freyr on ngram. Even if false positives do appear, the name Frey is derived from Freyr, the name of the Norse god. IP's points about the dictionaries also strikes a chord with me. If Freyr is so common, why is it that no English Dictionary mentions Freyr, while Frey is mentioned ? Hence possible support, possible because I had no prior knowledge of the Norse policy and am currently acting according to my common sense. Also Strong Support of redirecting Frey to Freyr if not moved, as per Wikipedia:Primary topic. King Prithviraj II (talk) 16:58, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Scholarly usage overwhelmingly prefers Freyr. Of the English-language survey works on Norse mythology and religion that I have to hand, Hilda Ellis Davidson, E. O. G. Turville-Petre, Rudolf Simek, Thomas DuBois, and the most recent, Christopher Abram (2011) all use Freyr. Only John Lindow uses Frey. Less importantly, I personally think when I read "Frey" in English that one of the many people with that surname is being referred to. In view of the n-gram results, the redirect Frey should IMO continue to point to this article; otherwise I would have thought better to have it point to Frey (disambiguation). Yngvadottir (talk) 20:51, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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Addition of a list of Kennings and alternate names?

Hey Wikipedians,

Would it be worth adding a list of Kennings and alternate names for Freyr to this article?

There are such lists on many of the other Norse deities' articles on here, and it feels like an omission not to have a list for Freyr, even if it would not be as long as some of the others.

Just a consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:C83B:5300:71C2:608A:67B1:5F6B (talk) 20:01, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Teething present?

Is that saying he chewed on a realm? Because that's what it sounds like! God or not, how does that work? Booger-mike (talk) 20:25, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Association with battle

Recently an editor removed the word "battle" from the god's list of associations. We see Freyr associated with battle throughout the record, notably in the skaldic poem Húsdrapa (Freyr#Skaldic_poetry). :bloodofox: (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Woden, id est furor

Is there any way to alter the translation to be more accurate while still citing the person who translated most of it? Furor does not mean 'the furious.' It means "fury" or 'madness,' which has drastically different implications: it would mean that Woden is the quality of madness or fury, not merely one who possesses it, and I think that the translation ought to reflect that.

Aesir?

The article states "the most renowned of the æsir". But Freyr is not a member of the Aesir! He is a Vanir hostage!Alpharts Tod (talk) 19:37, 28 September 2021 (UTC)