Talk:Frank Ramsey (basketball)

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Requested move 1 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Frank Ramsey (basketball) → Frank Ramsey
• Frank Ramsey → Frank Ramsey (disambiguation)

– WP:TWODABS, leave a hatnote to Frank P. Ramsey ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Note: target or "new" titles cannot have non-redirected content unless they are also to be renamed. So this request has been altered to reflect that requirement. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 01:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC) 02:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, since the mathematician has more page views. I actually think his WP:COMMONNAME is also "Frank Ramsey", and would rather disambiguate that page to something like Frank Ramsey (mathematician).--Ortizesp (talk) 03:00, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

  Comment For convenient reference, the mathemetician is currently titled Frank P. Ramsey.—Bagumba (talk) 11:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. This is a classic example of WP:TWODABS in almost all instances, there is no need for a disambiguation page if there are only two articles on the subject that can easily use hatnotes. Using a hatnote uses the same amount of clicks as a disambiguation page: one. Hatnotes can solve the issue. Also, WP:SMALLDETAILS apply. One of the subjects is known with their middle initial so there is no reason the other one can't use the base name of Frank Ramsey. cookie monster (2020) 755 06:06, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

  Re: SMALLDETAILS, an initial in the title doesn't necessarily mean the subject is more know with the initial. WP:NATURALDIS is preferred over parenthetical disambiguation, and it seems that's why the title has the initial, not WP:COMMONNAME. The recent bio published on him is titled Frank Ramsey: A Sheer Excess of Powers, and a Google News search including "Cambridge" shows more hits without the initial.—Bagumba (talk) 12:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

  If he is better known without the initial, I still support deletion of the disambiguation page. Hatnotes should suffice. cookie monster (2020) 755 21:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

  There must be a disambiguation page if there is WP:NOPRIMARYTOPIC.—Bagumba (talk) 17:57, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose No primary topic here. The mathemetician is more commonly known without the initial; it's presence in the title is due to WP:NATURALDIS being preferred over parethetical disambiguation, not WP:COMMONTITLE. Per the guideline WP:NOPRIMARY (bolding added for emphasis): If there are multiple topics (even just two) to which a given title might refer, but per the criteria at Is there a primary topic? there is no primary topic, then the base name should lead the reader to the disambiguation page for the term The nomination is confusing the guideline WP:TWODABS with WP:2DABPRIMARY, an essay which contradicts WP:NOPRIMARY.—Bagumba (talk) 12:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose The basketball player is certainly not the primary topic of "Frank Ramsey". In fact, the mathematician is probably the primary topic since he gets 6x the pageviews of the basketball player. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

  Comment @King of Hearts: There is a recent spike in views due to the release of a the book I mentioned above at 12:21, 1 May. At this time last year, the views were about 100/day for each.[1].—Bagumba (talk) 01:58, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

  Ah, OK. Then it's pretty clear there's no primary topic. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:00, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose; I have added a see also for Frank William Ramsay (1875–1954), senior British Army officer in World War I, which is likely to be confused with Ramsey. BD2412 T 21:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. There is certainly no clear primary topic here. The mathematician should be renamed Frank Ramsey (mathematician), given we never add middle names and initials purely for purposes of disambiguation and his common name is without the initial. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.