Talk:Emma Raducanu/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

BLP and sourcing of article content

This article must comply with all the policy requirements specified in WP:BLP, particularly WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:NOR. All content added must be reliably sourced and all infobox content should, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, ideally be a summary of reliably sourced content presented elsewhere in the article. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Her height

We have it as 1.75 m (5ft 9in) in the infobox and referenced to a WTA webpage. I see though that webpage gives her height as 5ft 7in (1.75 m) - which is two different heights - 5ft 7in = 1.7 m and 1.75 m = 5ft 9in. I wonder which value is correct. -- DeFacto (talk). 14:01, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

For what it's worth, an article in the sport section of today's Daily Telegraph states that she's 5' 7". 86.159.121.126 (talk) 19:56, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Per Wimbledon, French Open, and US Open she is 5'9" (1.75m). I let the WTA know about the error on their website. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:20, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Updates during tournament

This article has been updated today with information on a tournament in which the subject is still participating. Wikipedia protocol is not to update until the tournament is complete or the subject has been knocked out. Current ranking shown as 100; WTA link still shows 150 and will only be updated next Monday (13 September). Ancienterracht (talk) 22:06, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Also the career earnings in the infobox seems to have been updated without changing the reference.Nigel Ish (talk) 22:35, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2021

Height is listed as 5’9” but according to wta website she is 5’7” 108.35.179.31 (talk) 22:45, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Actually the WTA site lists her as 1.75 meters which is 5'9". All other sources say 5'9" so we assume the WTA site has a misprint. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:04, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2021

Last sentence of the lead: "Grand Slam singles tournament since Virginia Wade last won Wimbledon in 1977. She did so without losing a single set throughout the tournament." - the "She" to start that sentence makes it slightly unclear of which players is being spoken about (Raducanu or Wade). Request replacing "She" with "Raducanu". 146.112.56.102 (talk) 22:55, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:04, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2021 (2)

Please change the date of the match from future dated 13th September to 11th September. 154.66.184.113 (talk) 14:14, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Please see the discussion above. — LauritzT (talk) 15:23, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

-"US$" - why & what for??? + "reigning C(?)hampion" ??? -188.99.63.188 (talk) 07:10, 13 September 2021 (UT

Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2021

She achieved 23rd rank on September 11th (today), not September 13th 67.80.244.93 (talk) 00:39, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Rankings come out officially on Monday, September 13th. 350z33 (talk) 01:48, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

She does not get that ranking today. Rankings are done weekly so it happens on Monday. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:35, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

The same for the earned $$$, there is no source that she earned 2.8 M ... only the knowledge that she added 2,5M and that it will be 2.8M *tomorrow*, should not reflect in the article this sunday. We can not be faster then our source (which is the WTA-website, not the Daily Mirror nor The Sun). Edoderoo (talk) 08:08, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

She was literally handed the check for $2.5m USD right after the match concluded.350z33 (talk) 11:32, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia should follow the sources, not ourselves calculating the cheques you have seen being handed on Eurosport Player. Edoderoo (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Now it's monday (early) morning, the source is still at 303k, but en-wiki is still (or again?) showing 2.8M. Which source is used for this? Edoderoo (talk) 06:40, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Qualification history at Grand Slams

Thank you for including the qualification history at Grand Slams for Raducanu (I believe she played in the girls' singles those years at Wimbledon). That does seem pertinent here, given the record she set at the US Open. I doubt she will have to qualify any more! The question I have is how common is it to include qualification details in a player's career statistics? I see that there is some inclusion of this at Roger Federer and at Steffi Graf, but can't see this at many other player articles (I checked Djokovic, Murray and Nadal). Is this because details are often not available, or because some players get so good so quickly they never have to qualify? Or is it because of the need to put something other than 'A' if they entered qualifying? Can we ever be sure we have the full qualifying history of players from the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s for example? The issue of wildcards is also not always fully covered in Grand Slam performance timelines. If the more general question should be discussed at a more general page, please move this question there. Carcharoth (talk) 11:40, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Name pronunciation

@Fyunck(click): Hey, why did you remove the native name pronunciation? See Maria Sharapova and Bianca Andreescu, among others. The latter's name is also Romanian, and both have their native name pronunciations despite not having been born in Russia and Romania, respectively. Kind regards, Lupishor (talk) 23:30, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Edit: My bad, Sharapova was born in Russia, but the native name point remains valid for both examples. Lupishor (talk) 23:34, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea why Andreescu, a Canadian-born, Canadian player would have a name translation. It makes no sense to me. I'll leave it but it has no business being there. If she had spent a lot of time in Romania in playing jr tennis or minor league tennis, it would make a difference. But that didn't happen. She was born in Canada and at two moved to the UK and has always played there. That translation has no business at all being there. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:44, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

if she lives in the UK she has to put up with an anglicised pronunciation. That should be present.

And even if it would belong here you should add the Romanian spelling first before adding a pronounciation, because Raducanu is not the same with Răducanu.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 23:59, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Fyunck(click): @8Dodo8: Caroline Wozniacki's Polish name pronunciation is also on her article, along with a mention of the different spelling used in Poland. Since 8Dodo8 seems to agree with adding the pronunciation as long as the Romanian spelling is there (?), I guess I will try again like that. Lupishor (talk) 06:42, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

What about Leylah Fernandez? Since her father is from Ecuador do we put in the Ecuadorian pronunciation of her name? When a person is born and or lived someplace else, or played tennis representing different countries it's makes some sense. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:30, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why you are so strongly opposed to it. I've already given the Wozniacki and Andreescu examples, the latter of which is a Good Article. Telling the reader how one's name is pronounced in the person's native language does no harm whatsoever. Sharapova also has her English name pronunciation there despite not playing for an English-speaking country, while Karolína Plíšková, for example, doesn't. Lupishor (talk) 09:09, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Because it opens a messy can of worms for every bio on Wikipedia. We'd have to check the parentage of every bio to see if they came from a different country. We'd have to trace the ethnicity of every last name to see its origins. If she had been raised in Romania it would be different. My goodness, if she eventually has kids that play tennis would you want the same native name pronunciation included in their bios? Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:34, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

What sources do you have that state that Romanian is Emma Raducanu's native language? If we are to tell people how to pronounce her name, then surely we should be using the pronounciation SHE uses - which given this is a BLP must be subject to BLP sourcing. If we don;t have a source either way then pronounciation should be omitted.Nigel Ish (talk) 11:58, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

English is her native language and there’s a WTA source where she pronounces the name with British accent, so I think we should either include the Romanian spelling in the lead or remove the whole thing whatsoever.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 14:18, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

In and out since (if not several times). It's still rather awkwardly crowbarred into a sentence notionally about the spelling later on, though. Surely better to link to the Răducanu article, add a pronunciation and a reliable source for it there, rather than than adding a tangent to a tangent to get into it on this page. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:44, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

"Professional" vs "Adult" Tennis

Hey, Fyunck, even the Junior tennis article here on Wikipedia refers to "adult", not professional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_tennis

"Some players who qualify as "junior tennis" players also play in MAIN ADULT TOURS, though forms signed by their parent or guardian are required for this." (emphasis mine) Posters5 (talk) 22:31, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source, Wikipedia:WHATABOUT. Your edit to "professional adult" reads awkwardly, and makes the distinction much less clear. Everyone on the junior tour is a junior (but may not be an amateur); everyone on the pro tour is a professional (but may not be an adult, as in 18+). Hence "junior" and "professional" are the most applicable descriptors. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:03, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not using Wikipedia as a source, and I'm not defining words/terms. I'm trying to maintain consistency between articles. Furthermore, people under a certain age (unless legally emancipated) need parental/guardian permission to participate in the professional adult events. Posters5 (talk) 23:44, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The junior tennis article isn't a good example; no one maintains that page. For the sake of consistency with articles that are actually up-to-date, don't use "adult". Sportsfan77777 (talk) 23:56, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

You were precisely using the content of one article as "precedent" for another, as I said. If the lack of consistency bothers you, editing that other article in line with the (IMO excellent) arguments made here is certainly an available option. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 05:40, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

"Junior" and "professional" suffices to explain which is which. Professional tournaments are never called "adult tournaments", perhaps because they're never restricted to adults. That's why we usually have a "Junior career" section and a "Professional career" section in most articles, and avoid having sections named "Adult career". Also, WP:PLEASEDON'TSHOUT. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 23:53, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. There are juniors and there are professionals. Often players are in both. When you turn 19 you are out of junior tennis. You must be 14 to play any professional tennis, but you do not need to be an adult. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 September 2021

I would like you change British to Canadian as she was born in Canada and not Britian.Nothing about her is British not parents or birthplace. 86.20.25.105 (talk) 19:42, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure where you what the change. If you mean the first sentence, no. She is a British tennis player. Her early life says she was born in Canada so there you go for that. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:53, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

She is a dual citizen, British and Canadian. Her birth in Canada automatically gives her Canadian citizenship.if you prefer, you can say “Canadian-born British tennis player”. I think her nationality should be only left as “British”. Millie Bobby Brown was born in Spain and is not mentioned in her lead. Plus, it’s pretty clear Raducanu identifies as British since she represents this country.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 16:50, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a huge problem dealing with nationality. She is both Canadian and British. Obviously, she grew up in Britain and officially represents Britain in international competition, however she is a Canadian and British person. Therefore, being that this is supposed to be an objective resource, factual information should be provided. The lead sentence should indicate that she is a Canadian, in addition, to be being British. The sidebar makes it clear that she formally represents Britain, but legally she is equally both Canadian and British. Therefore, it should be changed. Senorcanadiense (talk) 22:38, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

We handle Garbiñe Muguruza's article as a dual citizen. I do like Canadian-born better but it's a minor matter. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:16, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

"Nothing British about her" - only her nationality and where she has lived since the age of 2... Also, I have no issue with Canadian being in the lede, and wish Wikipedia would be more straightforward in its approach to nationality in some instances, but her British citizenship/nationality is most *definitely* more important/noteworthy than her being Canadian in the light of her win as a British tennis player. That's all.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 23:22, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Omitting someone's legal citizenship/nationality no longer makes the matter objective. It's therefore an emotional position that the editor is taking, which is not what resources, like wikipedia, encyclopedia, etc. should be doing. The facts are the facts. Just because she may be formally representing one of the countries doesn't change the fact that she is a citizen of both. It doesn't make her any less Canadian just because people may view her as more British. It's incorrect protocol to take.

She's obviously Romanian, political correctness strikes wikipedia again.

She likely is a Romanian citizen too, so all should be mentioned.

No. If it can be proved she is a Romanian citizen it can go in her personal life section. And please start signing your name be using four ~~~~ after your posts. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:57, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Not sure if this is indeed as a serious suggestion, or is whataboutery in connection with the foregoing. In theory she might will be notionally Romanian by citizenship too (by my flyby reading of our article on that topic) -- though pretty clearly isn't a Chinese citizen, in case anyone was about to wonder about that, too! But this doesn't really even arise as a question for Wikipedia, as there's no source even so much as suggesting she is. Putting it into the article would be the most barrack-room-lawyer grade of WP:OR, as is Right Out. It very possibly doesn't even arise as a question for her, as she's probably never had reason to test the existence or possible entitlement to such. For example by applying for a Romanian passport. Whereas she was very clearly Canadian from birth, and this is extremely robustly sourced. But she is still unambiguously a British tennis player -- sports don't have 'dual representation'. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 13:57, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

"an emotional position" - how ironic. Wikipedia has never had a hard-and-fast rule on nationalities in the lead. Emma is proud of her Chinese and Romanian roots but ultimately she is British. Come up with a statement of hers where she declares herself to be a Canadian or stop this silly point-scoring.--2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:50B:922C:354:E178 (talk) 14:37, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Again another talk page discussion where some editors think there opinions about matters of fact, matter - they don't. Wikipedia is based on what reliable sources say WP:RS. If and until reliable sources say otherwise she is British but born in Canada - both these facts have sources. To all the editors saying otherwise provide a reliable source to support you assertions. If you can't then there is nothing more to say. Robynthehode (talk) 15:57, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

No, reliable sources say she's a Toronto-born British-Canadian dual national that represents the UK in tennis. Hence the article saying so, just not, as the old Eric Morecambe joke goes, necessarily in the right order. Sources and wording to that effect already in the article, the question is whether whether the lead section should be entirely silent on Canada, as at present. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 11:28, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

There seems to be only one source for the claim that Raducanu is a dual national, and that's whatsername in the Toronto Star, as cited in the article's notes. Forbes magazine says only that she is 'likely a dual citizen', simply because she was born in Toronto. https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjsemotiuk/2021/09/14/canadian-tennis-star-loved-back-home-though-falling-shot-in-new-york/ That doesn't altogether follow. Neither of Raducanu's parents is a native Canadian, she's lived in Greater London since she was two -- and indeed still lives in her parents' three-bed semi in Bromley -- and probably doesn't remember Canada, though she does visit her parents' homelands, Romania and China. She represents Great Britain in tennis and it's not clear what advantage would accrue from having a Canadian passport as well as her UK one. The evidence is a bit feeble at this point. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:22, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

She is Romanian by decent.

I'm not quite clear what you're suggesting "doesn't quite follow" from what. Are you saying there's not enough sources, they're not reliable by our criteria, or you're second-guessing their logic? If either of the first two, here's the NYT on the same topic: "The word applies to both players’ runs to the final, but their paths to this rarefied moment have been both remarkably similar and remarkably different. Both were born in Canada, but though Raducanu still holds a Canadian passport, she left with her parents to live in London when she was 2." And NPR: "Although Raducanu has dual citizenship in Canada and the U.K., her monumental win is a big deal for Britain in particular; she's the first female British player to win a Grand Slam event in 44 years." If the third, then a) that's WP:OR, and b) it's pretty shaky reasoning. (Canada has extremely extensive jus soli citizenship provision, so when the immigration attorney says this is "likely" (as opposed to the two sources flat-out stating it), it seems to me he's being extremely cautious: she'd have to have disclaimed her Canadian citizenship sometime after being naturalised as a UK one, or been stripped of it by the Canadian government for some unfathomable reason.) She doesn't need to remember Canada, she doesn't need to have a current Canadian passport, she doesn't have to gain some advantage from this arrangement, she doesn't need to do anything at all: all besides the point as regards being a dual citizen. Unless and until there's some RS provided suggesting something else is actually the case, this seems straightforward: all given reliable sources say she's a dual citizen, so we say that. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:35, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

There is no hard-and-fast rule on WP that every legal citizenship someone holds should be mentioned in the lead. Adding Canadian after British would put undue weight on her birthplace. The idea that she is “just as Canadian as she is British” is also racist, as it posits her place of birth as more important than her Chinese and Romanian ethnic background, which are far mor important to her personal development and identity. Drop it. 2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:C1B:1DFB:9181:9F66 (talk) 13:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Her last name

Hi! Her last name is Răducanu, which is a common name in Romania. Raducanu is not. See Gazeta Sporturilor https://www.gsp.ro/sporturi/tenis/emma-raducanu-prima-victorie-a-carierei-la-wimbledon-romania-635767.html

I propose her article name to be renamed, if not to add Romanian name straight after the mentioned name in the beginning of the article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by End-of-season-updates (talk • contribs) 11:04, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

The article has been moved without discussion. Emma spells her surname Raducanu without diacritics. See here and also See here. This should be moved back to Emma Raducanu --Lee Stanley (talk) 21:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Unless evidence is provided that SHE uses the spelling with diacritics, the article should be moved back.Nigel Ish (talk) 21:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

She also doesn't pronounce her own name with /ə/ (schwa) which is the sound that the ă represents. See here --Lee Stanley (talk) 22:26, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Not only is it inaccurate to use the spelling with diacritics, but it’s also disrespectful to Emma. That fact that there are other people who use the spelling Răducanu or that that is perceived as the correct spelling in Romania has no relevance to this article whatsoever. Her name is Emma Raducanu, not Răducanu.2A02:C7F:5E33:F00:E452:BA78:89DB:FB69 (talk) 23:20, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Emma Raducanu is a British tennis player, who was born in Canada and has lived in England since the age of two. Her only connection to Romania is her father's nationality. If we were to use her mother's nationality as a guide to spelling her name, it would read 拉杜卡努 - I trust others would agree that this would be an absurd course of action. The only reason to use diacritics in writing her name would be to appease Romanian nationalists - and that is definitely not recommended. Emma Raducanu's name is Emma Raducanu.— Preceding unsigned comment added by FreddysDead (talk • contribs) 23:31, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree her name should be Raducanu without the diacritics. She is not Romanian by nationality, but only by ethnicity and it is likely that she also does not know how to even speak Romanian. As she represents Great Britain, her name should be spelt in English. An example of this would be like spelling Bencic as Benčič, or Mladenovic as Mladenović, or Petkovic as Petković, or Fernandez as Fernández because of their surnames. This list goes on... Keroks (talk) 01:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Benic and Petrovic all have their 'original' names in parentheses (Belinda Bencic (Slovak: Belinda Benčičová, pronounced [ˈbelinda ˈbentʂitʂɔʋaː]; born 10 March 1997), Andrea Petkovic (Serbian: Андреа Петковић, romanized: Andrea Petković, pronounced [ǎndrea pêtkoʋitɕ];[1][2] born 9 September 1987)) even if they have 'nothing' to do with their parent's home countries, so using this logic, since Raducanu is a Romanian surname (it doesn't matter she was born in Canada or that she is British her surname IS Romanian) it should appear in parentheses. 95.149.118.141 (talk) 15:01, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

It makes a huge difference since spelling changes per country. She is not Romanian... she has Romanian ancestry. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

And many others with Anglicised names don’t have their 'original' name in parentheses. John Bercow doesn’t have Berkowitz, Stephen Poliakoff doesn’t have Поляко́в, Paul Dickov, Milija Aleksic, Nina Myskow, Mel Giedroyc, Lisa Dobriskey…2A02:C7F:5E33:F00:E452:BA78:89DB:FB69 (talk) 02:14, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

It seems wildly WP:UNDUE to have a pronunciation note of this sort here, if not borderline failing verifiability as presently phrased. It's telling us the pronunciation corresponding to an orthography she doesn't use and we don't give at this point in the article, in a language she's not known to speak, implying an accent she doesn't use. The much more elegant solution would be to link Răducanu where it textually appears (unlinked, of course!) at present in the "early life" section, then add the Romanian pronunciation and a usable source for this to that article. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 16:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure why someone would assume that she doesn't know how to speak Romanian. In any event, she apparently does (at least to some extent) based on a video clip of her replying in Romanian to a fan after the US Open Final. GroveWanderer (talk) 13:45, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

IPA-ro must be mentioned as well in the lead because she's Răducanu, it's not an English name even if it's Raducanu

IPA-ro must be mentioned as well in the lead because she's Răducanu, it's not an English name even if it's Raducanu End-of-season-updates (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Diacritics are very important in Romania. She's Răducanu, not Raducanu! Really big difference. Romanian alphabet End-of-season-updates (talk) 22:15, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

This has been discussed above in section Her last name. She is not Romanian but British. She doesn't spell her own name with diacritics and as noted only one parent hails from Romania, the other from China. You are pushing your own POV and you don't have consensus. Please stop edit warring. It appears that you are here to right great wrongs but that isn't what Wikipedia is about. Here discussion and consensus is how editing is done. Notfrompedro (talk) 21:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

She was born in Canada and moved to the UK when she was two. She plays for Great Britain tennis. That's it. Her heritage is of course briefly mentioned in her early life... that's normal. Her father's name is in dispute and not needed so it was removed. You keep bring it back. And we certainly don't need the Chinese characterization of her name in the article. The whole world is a melting pot of ethnicity these days. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Agree with above. We can't go around correcting Hispanic Americans who pronounce their own surname Gon-zar-lezz, or any people of German descent who say "Muller" to rhyme with "fuller". The end of this purity spiralling would be to make the name "Johnson" start with a y-sound, as that is how it's said in Scandinavia, where it originated. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:43, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

That'd be wildly inappropriate. The importance of the breve in Romania does not carry over to Bromley, it seems, as she doesn't use the "correct" pronunciation (listen to her) or spelling (see her social media) herself. And as I've observed before, if the IPA-ro is so critical, why hasn't it been added to Răducanu article? Which is clearly the correct place for it. (There used to be a link to the "name" article from the "early life" section, but that's evidently been lost due to the disruptive efforts to erase the multiple high-quality sources stating what her father's name is, ironically enough.) Has no place in the lead section, however. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:37, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2021

Emma Raducanu was born on 13 November 2002 in Toronto, Canada, to Ian and Renee Raducanu, originally from Bucharest, Romania, and Shenyang, China, respectively.

Please change 'Ian' to 'Ion'. 195.59.168.126 (talk) 17:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I can't provide any evidence directly but I worked with Ion (pronounced Yon) at EDF Energy until he left in 2019.

Roger.Brooks@edfenergy.com

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Personal knowledge is not verifiable to our readers or editors and therefore not acceptable. Sorry, - FlightTime (open channel) 18:12, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

The LTA has Ion [1]. Nthep (talk) 10:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Conversely, even a-breve-insisting Romanian-language sources like prosport.ro say things like "Ian Răducanu (no - he changed his name from Ion)". So I think "common name in reliable sources" applies, and it should remain as "Ian". 109.255.211.6 (talk) 16:10, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The LTA profile article uses Ion. https://www.lta.org.uk/about-us/tennis-news/news-and-opinion/general-news/2021/september/the-remarkable-rise-of-emma-raducanu/

"Born in Toronto in 2002 to a Chinese mother and Romanian father, Raducanu moved over to England when she was just two years old. The family settled in Bromley, Kent, where the tennis centre would soon become a second home for her. Her parents both have academic backgrounds, her father Ion and her mother Renee both working in finance and it is from them whom she says her mental strength, which has been so evident on court in New York, is inherited." Posters5 (talk) 23:48, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

By the way, if you conduct a general/hard Google search, you'll see that many news articles are using Ion instead of Ian. Posters5 (talk) 23:54, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Also, his professional credentials.

http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/9734199/CATLIN-ION-RADUCANU

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/bkCnbqVu7fsg8UdJzjTMwBUewqY/appointments

https://www.192.com/atoz/people/raducanu/catlin/br2/2630857292/

His name is CATLIN ION RADUCANU. Posters5 (talk) 23:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The LTA article is the one I just responded to the comment on: just repeating it is neither a fresh example nor a novel argument. And I had already searched precisely as you suggest, and I found those appearances -- which clearly aren't appropriate sources, and aren't even directly connectable to the topic -- and a distinct lack of "many news articles", other than in Romanian. So as I say, common name in reliable sources applies, and it should remain as-is. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 02:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Look harder, not just at the first two pages of a search result. I'm referring to English-language sources, NOT Romanian ones. Also, LTA has been nurturing/following her career for much longer than news sources, most of which probably assumed that "Ion" was a typo without verifying. In their arrogance, they themselves made the typo.Posters5 (talk) 02:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

By the way, one of the sources I linked is hosted at gov.uk, the official British archive of public information, including registered/incorporated businesses. Please stop denying reality. I have seen many instances of "news sources" being wrong and Wikipedia editors using Wikipedia policy about "news sources" to maintain erroneous information for years. Posters5 (talk) 03:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah, that which is asserted without evidence... imposes a burden of proof on others to go looking for evidence for them, to very loosely paraphrase Christopher Hitchens. No, I'm afraid not, it can't go into the article without reliable sources, and you've produced at best one reliable source, set against several existing ones using the present orthography. That's both policy and reality. If you dislike the policy, go try to change it, rather than bemoan its application here. The UK company register is not a good source on the common name in English of the relative of a tennis player, regardless of where it's "hosted". It's not even remotely usable, in fact: that it's even the same person relies on a rather intrusive form of WP:OR, and it entirely fails to address the point at hand. People can use different versions of their name at different times, both informally and in common law: there's some actual reality. The theory that this is simply "erroneous information" with no basis in fact, and is just a hyper-corrected typo is implausible in the extreme. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 04:40, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I work as a professional editor. I see it happen all the time, writers thinking they're being helpful and "fixing" something that, however unfamiliar, was actually right. And again, LTA has been following and nurturing Raducanu's career for much longer than the mainstream news media even knew she existed. LTA is more likely to get her parents' name right. Posters5 (talk) 05:10, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Can you maybe professionally indent your comments in a way that makes logical and visual sense? Thanks. I'm afraid your claimed credentials and (IMO still wildly implausible) theory do not make one borderline-primary source trump many reliable (in fact as well as in policy) secondary sources. If this purported "error" were actually such, it'd no doubt come to light pretty quickly given the high degree of publicity. Feel free to get the process started by writing the publications demanding a correction, pointing it out to the subject of the article or the supposedly misspelled name. If they're half as exercised as you, they can fix it with an OTRS, or do as CCH Pounder did and tweet (etc) their view. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 05:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

1)Continued disruptive edits without consensus must stop. and 2)It's getting ridiculous with the Chinese stuff. Just because someone speaks the language now? That's crazy. Convince others before things spiral to a bad place. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I have convinced others, you are the only person who does not like adding her Chinese name. It's not just because she speaks the language, she's actually half-Chinese and visited family in China regularly before the COVID-19 pandemic. By the way, Michael Chang's page has his Chinese name, and he doesn't even speak Chinese. Posters5 (talk) 04:20, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

You have convinced no one. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Lovewhatyoudo, I like how you introduced her mother's Chinese name, though I was wondering about surname/given name order since it's supposed to be Chinese. Posters5 (talk) 04:22, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Also, I would put the note about the Chinese version of her name after the Romanian since the Chinese is transliteration of the Romanian. Posters5 (talk) 04:41, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

It's not a question of what one likes, it's a question of what's pertinent information, what's accurate, and what's verifiable. Having a narrative that works for you is not a a great rationale. We're wandering off in the direction of Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source and WP:WHATABOUT again here, but to briefly follow you down that tangent, note that "Michael Te-Pei Chang" is his full name, is readily verifiable from English-language sources, and is actually used in such sources, both primary (i.e. used in English by himself), and secondary, the usual strongly preferred sort here. It's not a transliteration, it's not something that appears exclusively in Chinese sources as an alternative to "Michael Chang". "拉杜卡努" is not a Chinese name; it's not a "Chinese spelling"; it's her anglicised Romanian-origin name (rather lossily) rendered in Chinese characters and phonology. Note that Chang's article does not include an improperly source digression about the "Chinese spelling" of "Michael", which is what would be equivalent to what's occurring here. The subjects' linguistic abilities, ethnicity and travel itineraries are not pertinent here: the verifiable facts pertinent to their names are. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 05:20, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Look here, there is no "Ian Raducanu", but there are several "Ion Raducanus". https://www.192.com/atoz/people/raducanu/ Posters5 (talk) 04:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I dealt with the non-usability of this as a "source" above. That there are other people called "Ion Raducanu" is surprisingly only in that you bring it up as somehow relevant, which it is not. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 05:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The Romanian name "Ion" is pronounced "Yon", which by the way, is how "Jon / John" was written back when there was no letter "J". Even if "Ion" were to use an Anglicized nickname to make it easy on the people he meets, it'd most likely be "Jon" or "John" instead of "Ian". "Ian" is a typo by "news" and "media" outlets who thought they were clever when they pilfered what little biographical information they could find online, and if you look closely, most articles are ripping off the LTA profile anyway. Again, LTA is an organization that has followed Raducanu for years, long before she became the latest media darling. Posters5 (talk) 05:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

It's in fact extremely unlikely that he uses the name "Jon" or "John", given that this has been reported nowhere, and that he's called "Ian" is reported widely. Your theory of the case doesn't stand up to a moment's actual thought. There's "is her dad Ian or Ion?" discussion on the internet dating back two years. She's been an extremely prominent figure for several months now, she regularly gives media interviews, and it seems her father's spoken to the press himself too. The idea that their only source for his name is everyone copying everyone else's blunder stemming from utter familiarity with Romanian first-names, and that the subjects would have no interest in or chance of correcting it is such a sustained series of numerous implausible errors as to be frankly impossible. ("Mr Raducanu, any comment?" "Stop writing articles calling me 'Ian', that was a typo from two years ago that really hurts my proud Romanian heritage, but I've been too traumatised to bring it up before now." "Nah, we're going to keep using 'Ian'!")

As we're volunteering tangential explanations of the blitheringly obvious, here's a couple for you. There are four hundred thousand Romanian people in the UK. It's also an independently derived non-cognate Greek first name. An even half-educated British person does not see "Ion" and thing "obviously a typo for 'Ian', easily done as 'a' and 'o' are two letters merely almost the entire width of a QUERTY keyboard apart", much less the entire journalism profession. Secondly, the name "Ian" has two common spellings. Indeed, the other "Iain" is often maintained to be the "correct" or "authentic" one (same root, but via Scottish Gaelic orthography), and "Iain"s who get misspelled as "Ian" are frequently apt to get very huffy about it. The distance from "your name's Ian?" to "and how are you spelling that?" is generally a pretty short one. "With an o" would settle matters pretty quickly.

Here's another person making the same "mistake", by your lights:-

"[Wimbledon.com] What are your parents' first names? I know you obviously won £115,000 today, a great amount of money, which may go on coaching and anything else. Are you going to treat yourself?

EMMA RADUCANU: My dad's name is Ian, and my mom's name is Renee."

Silly journos with no interest in tennis or knowledge of the subject, eh. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 06:51, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This discussion was started by an anonymous user who claimed to be Roger Brooks of EDF Energy, stating that Mr. Raducanu's father's name is spelled "ION" and not "IAN". Did some digging, and this is a screenshot of Mr. Brooks's LinkedIn page: https://i.postimg.cc/j2KWg69r/Roger-Brooks.jpg . So, someone else wrote a post about "Ion Raducanu", which Mr. Brooks liked. Posters5 (talk) 08:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Roger Brooks is not a reliable secondary source. We have many reliable secondary sources -- or did, before you systematically removed them. We have his daughter and the subject of the article referring to him as "Ian". This is now beyond farce. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 08:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

What's farcical is your refusal to help solve this issue. I have just sent an e-mail to the BBC asking them to verify his name. Instead of berating me about Wikipedia policy (which by the way sometimes results in mistakes being live in articles for years!), why don't you help me contact a couple of news sources to resolve the matter? That's going to be more productive than keyboard warrioring with me here. Posters5 (talk) 08:40, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I am indeed helping solve this issue, you just have a deeply erroneous view of what "this issue" is, and what "solving" it would entail. If you dislike Wikipedia policy, go to the policy page to seek to change it. If you believe that reliable sources have been as incredibly sloppy as to repeatedly interview someone and his daughter while still getting his name wrong every time, but will respond to you writing to them to tell you your theory as to their preferences by changing their references to him immediate, then write to them. If you think the Raducanus are unaware of all the press "misspelling" Ian's name, contact them so they can take steps to amend this. Just don't disrupt this page with any further "I have a theory so policies don't apply to me" edits. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 00:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Removal of citations

At 23:00 yesterday, we'd three reliable clearly secondary sources as to what her parents names are. (BBC, SCMP, Vogue; many others are clearly available as needed.) These have all since been removed, under a series of pretexts, and what we now have is three scraping the bottom of the barrel sources -- and only barely scraped together, after several wildly inappropriate attempt that on the face of it publish their home address, business associations, etc -- for that his father name isn't (commonly, as generally reported): the LTA webpage, a primary-ish source, and two UK tabs. Frankly I think it's WP:UNDUE to insist on any mention of the apparent original form of Ian Răducanu at all, as the good sources are hugely in favour of "Ian". But to delete the latter entirely in favour of one's preferred option, on the apparent theory that journalists are all lazy idiots so reliable sources aren't such at all, and we should avoid using them with we have a "better" theory, is clearly wildly disruptive. This really needs to stop, or else this'll have to be escalated with a view to examining editor conduct. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 07:48, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I am honestly trying to improve the accuracy of this article. You yourself made reference to online disputes of the spelling of Mr. Raducanu's name going back two years, before Emma received widespread media attention. So unless Internet trolls are playing some sort of mysterious long game to inject doubt about Mr. Raducanu's name, I think his name is legitimately "Ion". Indeed, not only is "Ion" a very common name amongst Romanians, "Ion Raducanu" is also a common name, in both Romania and the UK. Indeed, there is a "Catlin Ion Raducanu" in Bromley as I indicated with a gov.uk link. This is publicly available information, not just easily searchable but also required to be publicly available by law. "Ian Raducanu"? A non-existent figment of imagination, conjured because journalists searched the Internet, came across LTA's website, and assumed that "Ion" was a typo. Posters5 (talk) 07:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Please stop referring to the aforementioned sites. At best you're completely wrong, and are associating two different individuals. At worst, you have the right person, and are linking a public figure with their private information, clearly contrary to WP:BLPPRIVACY, as has already been pointed out to you. I suggest you proceed in the hope that you are wrong, and desist from further such claims and associations. Repeat the assertion and I'm taking it straight to WP:BLP/N.

I said your edits were terrible and disruptive -- I didn't say they were made in bad faith. People are capable of being sincerely very, very mistaken. But they're clearly contrary to Wikipedia's policy on verifiability, they have no basis in plausibility, and the only way you misrepresent them as anything else is with the above behaviour of removing numerous good-quality sources in favour of the paltry selection of clearly poorer ones. Please desist in your plainly very counterproductive "honestly trying to improve the accuracy of this article" -- it's not, and you're violating policy to do it. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 08:18, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Not sure why you're making threats -- I'm not doxxing the Raducanu family's private residence. The links I posted here refer to a person's credentials at his place of employment. Again, this is information that is required to be publicly available. Posters5 (talk) 08:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not "making threats", please assume good faith -- as you rightly insist we do if you. I'm pointing out your violation of an extremely important Wikipedia policy, and the process I'd feel obliged to follow to remedy it. What does this is not the existence of the register, as you repeatedly and ridiculously seek to imply, but by associating two different pieces with each other in a way that's either wrong, or a privacy violation. As I say, I suggest you assume it's wrong, and don't repeat the exercise of asserting it's true-- as frankly you've more or less just done. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 08:34, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I've seen "published" errors get repeated here on Wikipedia and elsewhere, and then other subsequent publications echo those mistakes to the point where the errors take on a life of their own. In one instance, an actress's education info was wrong on her Wikipedia article for four years! There was basically one source (a YouTube video interview clip with the actress) that verified that the Wikipedia article was wrong (similar to here where the LTA article almost stands alone if you're the sort who only accepts a "print" publication). As improbable as one source being right and 100 others all being wrong is, it does happen. Posters5 (talk) 08:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

You've said this before. It's utter surmise on your part that such a thing has somehow occurred here, it's very clear it's not what's happened here, and even if it were, removing high-quality sources that disprove your theory and replacing them with poorer ones that vaguely boost it wouldn't be the way to deal with it. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 08:21, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

And guess what, people like Cori Gauff may have that name on all their important paperwork like bank statements and such. Yet her name is Coco Gauff per most sources and that's what we use. Interviews with just her father have only used the spelling of Ian Raducanu. Sure, it could be that the sources are wrong, but it's what we go with here at Wikipedia. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

So Wikipedia is a collection of credible mistakes? Posters5 (talk) 09:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth: We go by reliable sources. If reliable sources get it wrong, there's nothing we can do about it. Robby.is.on (talk) 09:48, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

That's amazing, Wikipedia actually has a policy that forces users to jump off a cliff -- and a cabal of policy worshippers who follow through with the act.Posters5 (talk) 09:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Yep. I know plenty of supposed facts on a certain band are incorrect. I have inside information. It's not published though so the actual facts will never see the light of day. The press and published works are what we go with here. And your smartass snipes grow tiresome. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

So Posters5 how would you propose that Wikipedia is organised so that information is included in the encyclopaedia? Truth WP:TRUTH cannot be the criterion otherwise the articles and talk pages would be overwhelmed by editors warring over what they believe to be true (edit warring is pretty bad now in some articles). No, the only way forward, in an encyclopaedia that anyone can edit, is to have protocols that make primary, verifiability WP:V and WP:RS. The mistake that so many editors make (at least initially - and I was one of them) is that their opinions or claims to knowing the truth, matter - they don't. Verifiable information from reliable sources (which of course can be challenged and changed) is the only way to have a functioning encyclopaedia such as this. Its occassionally frustrating, yes, but just accept it and move on Robynthehode (talk) 10:47, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm not against verification, and indeed I have been looking for sources pertaining to Mr. Raducanu's name. I did some more reading and came across this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Otto_Middleton_(or_why_newspapers_are_dubious_sources) . I've seen this problem happen, and it's compounded when policy worshippers hardcore enforce the notion that "reliable" sources are infallible. But hey, Dewey Defeats Truman, right?Posters5 (talk) 11:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

You are welcome to challenge reliability of sources at WP:RSN or check out perennial sources at WP:RSP. Yes there are issues with reliable sources and how some editors interpret some Wikipedia protocols but to be part of the project of creating an encyclopaedia we all have respect certain standards and protocols even if the specifics of those standards and protocols are imperfect (but can be challenged and changed). Robynthehode (talk) 11:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Due to increasing pressure on publications to gain more eyes and clicks in the Internet age, I've come to doubt the credibility of many "reliable" sources, even ones that I read regularly. Many media outlets rush to be "first" or "fast" when reporting news. Inevitably, they publish garbage. When The Hollywood Reporter published articles about Amazon acquiring MGM, two different writers on consecutive days mentioned how the MGM library included Gone With the Wind and The Wizard of Oz -- both of which were actually sold to Warner / Turner many years ago. I contacted them about both articles. You would think after the first day / mistake this would not happen again, but nope, on Day 2, THR once again claimed that the MGM library included two titles that it no longer had. Now I know my Hollywood history, so I did not fall for that, but how many people reading news actually check all the relevant facts? Somebody out there read those two articles before THR corrected them due to my e-mails, and somebody out there now genuinely believes that Amazon controls GWTW and TWOZ because he/she read those two articles. Posters5 (talk) 11:32, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Due to increasing pressure on publications to gain more eyes and clicks in the Internet age […] No disagreement there.

But we cannot take an editor's word for for something, like in the case of the editor who claimed to be Roger Brooks. And we cannot give LTA more credence than multiple other reliable sources. We cannot readily assume https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/bkCnbqVu7fsg8UdJzjTMwBUewqY/appointments refers to Emma Raducanu's father. Using https://www.192.com/atoz/people/raducanu/ or Mr Brooks' LinkedIn profile is textbook WP:original research. So until we find something better, we're stuck with the articles from reliable sources.

I'm sure Mr Raducanu has an interest in the media using his correct first name so if "Ian" is in fact wrong, I'm he will work to make sure newer publications will have the correct name. And when that happens, we can use those. Robby.is.on (talk) 11:49, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Also a textbook violation of WP:BLPPRIVACY, in the event it's actually the right person. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm open to the possibility that he may go by both Ion and Ian depending on the social setting (Ion when he knows he's dealing with peers of comparable intellect, such as work colleagues; Ian when he's dealing with people who have difficulty grasping that Ion is not pronounced eye-on). Many people let others mis-pronounce their names for years rather than fighting an uphill battle every day. Posters5 (talk) 11:58, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

It's good you begin to recognise the fundamental flaws in your own WP:OR on this topic, albeit regrettable you'd seek to do so in such luridly uncivil terms. Especially as the subject of the article is evidently one of the people you're assuming "have difficulty grasping" how her own father prefers to render his own name. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

(ec)Of course, the simple thing to do if we cannot agree, and if sources disagree on her parents names is to omit them - this is an article about Emma, not her parents. Not having her parents names in it isn't going to have a huge adverse effect on the reader's comprehension of the subject.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Nigel, just watch, if you do that, someone is going to jump on you for "blanking" content, LOL!!! Posters5 (talk) 12:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The edit-warring needs to stop right now. Just delete the names of the parents and all the nationalistic language nonsense and trim the article back. Otherwise admins will need to be brought in to stop the disruption.Nigel Ish (talk) 17:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

If there's an editorial decision to exclude those as being WP:UNDUE or teetering into WP:BLPPRIVACY concerns, fair enough. If you're proposing it simply as a 'compromise' between editors disruptive removing prime sources and those actually following policy, that would be a very poor practice. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

You are trying to remove her identity! Shame on all of you! "Ian" is just a nickname for IOAN. Logically his name was not Ion, because Ion it's easy to be pronounced in English. YOU ARE IGNORING THE ROMANIAN SOURCES saying his name is Ioan "Ian" Răducanu. She's not called Radukanu. End-of-season-updates (talk) 22:18, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, she's called "Raducanu". Including by herself. There's a smattering of Romanian sources saying her father's name is "Ioan", there's more saying -- as you do yourself elsewhere, hedging your bets perhaps! -- saying it's "Ion", and there's more still saying it's "Ian". But more to the point, reliable English-language sources overwhelmingly say "Ian", and the guidelines on that are pretty clear. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 23:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

And I just heard from a friend of their family. Of course we can't use it in any manner since it's not sourced, but he used both Ion or Ioan, and eventually went with the name Ian. Assuming this is true from a family friend, it explains a lot of the confusion and that he now goes by Ian. We'll have to keep looking out for an interview where he himself explains things. That would allow us to one day add his name to the article (though it's not vital we do so). Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:39, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Explains it indeed, and sounds about 50% more confusing than I'd estimated. I agree it's far from vital that it be added in any form, and there might be valid editorial reasons not to do so. But "because someone edit-warred for something else" isn't one of them. I think on the balance of reliable secondary sources it would make sense to simply say his name was "Ian", but if it were given as "Ian (Ion)" (as it indeed is on ro.), "Ian (or Ion)" (essentially hedging given the slight variation in sources), or even "Ian (originally Ion)", that wouldn't be outrageous or unreasonable. (Though that last may be stretching matters a little on the facts as presented, since it's not robustly sourced that he's changed his name as such, and may simply use different versions of it in different contexts. Same may apply to her mother, as presumably she wasn't "Renee" at birth in Shenyang.) 109.255.211.6 (talk) 01:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Personal life section

This section have very superficial info about her, can someone add, Where Emma live in London? What his father and mother do for living ? Education qualification of Emma ? Does she have any siblings ? I am really curious about it. Newton Euro (talk) 05:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

There's plenty of this in the media, though I suspect mainly in the redtops, right-wing tabs, and trashy glossy mags. That she took (and passed) A-levels shortly before Wimbledon was extremely widely reported and could certainly be reliably sourced. There's been a great deal of bizarre disruption and edit-warring of this section and the lead, with is likely why it's not a little more fleshed out. But for what it's worth, Bromley (often quaintly reported as "Kent", but as you say actually a borough of Greater London), both her parents work in finance, and only child. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 12:11, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

ITF Pune $25000 tournament

As per the career section, Emma won her first ITF tournament in Pune in India. It was her biggest achievement prior to 2021 US Open. We have to mention it and also add this it in her career titles in infobox. Her career titles should be 2 not 1. All this info is available in career subsection's sources. Newton Euro (talk) 17:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Once a player starts winning events on the WTA tour we eliminate minor league and junior events from the infobox. This is done with all players. The ITF is not a WTA Tour level event. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

This wasn't actually her first ITF title anyway, but her third (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Raducanu#ITF_Circuit_finals). At the time, it was the biggest tournament she'd won for sure. But it's a low-tier title so, as Fyunck(click) says, doesn't count towards her total title count.Jimthree60 (talk) 08:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Earlier versions of the article linked this in a way that might have clarified such confusion helpfully, but currently it dead-ends. Nor does it use the current terminology: there should ideally be a link to ITF Women's World Tennis Tour somewhere in this section, if it's not going to appear anywhere in the infobox. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 12:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Romanian identity

First of all her name in the identity card is Răducanu, since she is the daughter of Ion Răducanu. End-of-season-updates (talk) 22:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

What identity card is that, the British ones that were trialled and abolished when Emma was nine years old? Or maybe you just mean her file on the LTA website? [2] No, no diacritic mark there sir/madam Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:40, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not follow Romanian ethno-nationalist patriarchal standards, and English speakers are not bowing to Romanian spelling customs. My surname is Norman-French yet I don't spell it the same way as my ancestors! This obsession with a slight Anglicanization in her name is silly and conspiratorial. OP, if you can find sources in English in which Emma prefers the Romanian standard version of her name/multiple English language sources spelling her name your preferred way Vs. English speakers, do so. The fact Emma is proud of her Romanian roots should be enough, but no....--2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:E16C:3413:CA49:CCC8 (talk) 11:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Her Romanian article uses the diacritic, but we should go by what RS use. Jim Michael (talk) 11:59, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

The name Răducanu must be mentioned, because the pronunciation is very different

It's very important to be mentioned somewhere in the article that her father is Răducanu in the identity card and not Raducanu, because the pronunciation is very different. End-of-season-updates (talk) 13:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the original spelling should be stated, even if she has never used it. Her father uses it, or at least used to. Jim Michael (talk) 12:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

The article is about Emma Raducanu not her father. In addition is there any relevant source (about Emma) that states the alternative. If not it is not appropriate for two reasons. Robynthehode (talk) 13:29, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

This appears to be a rehash of the comment the same user left in this section. We don't seem to be able to even stabilise on the form of Ian Raducanu's name that he's currently known as according to the predominance of reliable sources, as a couple of editors strongly prefer "most Romanian-sounding" to "most verifiable". ("Ion" is much more common than "Ioan" in sources, but "Ian" vastly predominates, and even appears in Romanian sources.) To repeat a now-perennial comment of my own: the issue of spelling and pronunciation should be dealt with at the long-neglected Răducanu article, which needs a link from the early life section, and that's it: job done. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

It's relevant to state when the diacritic was dropped by her &/or her father. Everyone else on Răducanu has it included in their name. Jim Michael (talk) 14:43, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

That strikes me as undue, likely unverifiable, and arguably straying into BLPPRIVACY territory. What source do you offer that so much as touches on that point? I'm not sure Emma's ever spelled her name with an a-breve, given the lack of any verification of such, and the fact that she was born in one English-speaking location, and brought up in another English-speaking one. As for Ian, the article's not about him, he's not really a public figure, and he tends to appear in passing in sources about his daughter. As I say, we can't even manage to stabilise on his actual current name, much less track exact variations of it he may have used in different contexts at different times. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

This is starting to become ridiculous. This article is about Emma, not her father, and Emma's last name is Raducanu. She is British of Romanian and Chinese descent, not Romanian, and this article is not written in the Romanian language. Unless we want to open discussions into why Leylah Fernandez doesn't have Leylah Fernández written in her article, or Nadia Podoroska doesn't have Надія Подороська in hers, we should drop this now. When people move to a different country, they adapt their name to that country's language's spelling rules. Once again, Emma is not a Romanian or Chinese tennis player, she is British. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 15:47, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Let's not get too Tebbit-cricket-test about it. It's not mandatory for ER to spell her name without a breve just because she lives in an English-speaking country (nor for IR to call himself 'Ian'). The point is that according to reliable secondary sources (confirmed by self-authored ones in ER's case) they choose to do so. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I demand we add the Chinese translation of her name in the lead! I mean, only fair if we insist on using the Romanian one as well...? ;-)--2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:5568:6B1F:7981:B75C (talk) 15:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Well, if someone were to add an interwiki link -- and a target article in cn. if necessary -- to Răducanu, then a link from the "early life" section would finesse that too! Everyone happy! ... you'd have thought. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 16:06, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Her nationality

Her primary nationality is Romanian. There is no evidence she is a British Citizen.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.24.50 (talk) 18:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Lmao on the contrary we have every evidence she is a UK citizen but none that she is Romanian. --2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:E16C:3413:CA49:CCC8 (talk) 11:01, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I watched a post-match interview where Emma said she had a Canadian passport (see 9m 25s in here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQHo_jDue1I&t=563s). We would then assume she is a dual citizen of the UK and Canada. Richj1209 (talk) 12:59, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

9m23s -- don't watch from 9m25s or you'll have just missed it. :) (I've taken the liberty of editing your link to be to that time index, I hope you don't mind.) We don't have to assume -- we have a source, already in the article. This confirms that "first hand", but secondary are preferred to primary sources, as a general rule. But good evidence for the Doubting Thomases who pop up to say we can't rely on reliable sources. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:55, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Yes, I realised that I was a little off, but it is good to at least have Emma speaking on the record about this. Also, it's worth noting she has participated in Fed Cup matches for Great Britain - something she wouldn't do if she was dubious about her nationality.--Richj1209 (talk) 19:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)