Talk:Donald Trump/Archive 174

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Archive 174

Reverted bonespur deletion

I added a sentence regarding DJT's 1968 Draft deferment granted on the basis of alleged bone spurs in both feet. The subject has substantially arisen in recent months due to the campaign. Google noted that a Trump - bone spurs ostensible diagnosis has been recently searched for over 591,000 times. The situation had been well documented for nine years, including a very extensive investigation by the New York Times starting in 2015. The Wikipedia readership should not be denied access to this information. Activist (talk) 13:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Activist, your bold edit on August 8 was reverted on August 9. Please, self-revert your reinstatement of the challenged material. Discussion first, wait 24 hours from the time of your talk page message before reinstating. Also, why didn't you put your comment at the bottom of the Talk page? Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 13:21, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I have to apologize for adding the Talk on the "Bonespur" comments. I'm having terrible vision problems and expect I won't be able to edit Wikipedia for much longer. I've tried to sort this out, and hope I haven't confused things too much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Activist (talk • contribs) 13:38, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
I think this bit is UNDUE for this page. There are several other articles for which it's suitable. There was an epidemic of bonespurs around that time. SPECIFICO talk 20:02, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Bonespurs are not contagious and most 1960's draft dodgers didn't have accommodating podiatrist tenants of their fathers to write the alleged diagnosis. But this particular faker is the only one currently running for president, at the same time deriding the U.S. military and simultaneously proclaiming his own supposed bravado. The 591 thousand people who made that Google search that I've noted previously may have been "spurred" on by his "suckers and losers" comments regarding the French cemetery where so many U.S. casualties were buried. His current VP candidate is busily and assiduously smearing the 24 years of military service of his opponent's VP candidate. Trump is noteworthy for having told 30,573 lies or misstatements of fact while in the White House, which was carefully documented by the Washington Post. Activist (talk) 02:11, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it is worth a sentence in the article. It gets a lot of consistent coverage and is relevant to his biography. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

We mention it in the last sentence of the "Early life" section: In October 1968, he was classified 1-Y, a conditional medical deferment,[13] and in 1972, he was reclassified 4-F, unfit for military service, due to bone spurs, permanently disqualifying him.[14] The NYT reported the podiatrist's daughters said their father often spoke of having provided a deferment-establishing bone spurs diagnosis as a courtesy to his landlord who was Trump's father Fred. I don't doubt the information but it's hearsay, and naming father and daughters is too much detail. The bone spurs made headlines when Trump first ran because he was permanently disqualified for a temporary condition, and he didn't remember which foot was affected. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 19:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

bulletproof glass at first outdoor rally

In light of the recent assassination attempt on the US president, This would be an interesting article for voters to consider regarding the safety of a leading presidential candidate representing the United States. This content would be a good addition to the campaign. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 11:55, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

This is undue for an article about Trump. Slatersteven (talk) 11:56, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Wouldn't bulletproof glass, which was supposed to prevent assassination attempts during the campaign, help ease the concerns of many voters? Goodtiming8871 (talk) 12:01, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

That is not our job (read wp:not), this tells us nothing about Trump. Slatersteven (talk) 12:06, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Slatersteven here. This information is not relevant for a biography of Trump, although it could potentially be worth mentioning in the article on his 2024 campaign. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:31, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment Goodtiming8871 (talk) 09:04, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

References

Ronny Jackson "ally" removal

The article text describing Ronny Jackson as a Trump political ally -- cited to Associated Press -- has been removed on the theory that the word "ally" does not appear in the source. What the source says is that Jackson is a "staunch supporter" of Trump and then devotes several paragraphs to eviscerating Jackson as a credible witness. Somehow, either by my euphemistic "political ally" or otherwise, the sense of the cited source needs to be conveyed in our article text. SPECIFICO talk 19:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

At what point does a desire for accuracy about the nature of the ear injury become obsessive? It's Just Not That Important in my view. If Jackson had substantially exaggerated, I suspect someone with firsthand knowledge would have leaked something to that effect. Any deeper analysis can be done at Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:46, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Let's just be true to the sources instead of crafting narratives that are not following the cited sources. That would be the easiest and best. If you are for leaving the whole Ronny J 2 cm bit out, that would be fine too. SPECIFICO talk 21:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

If we were using wikivoice, you'd have a point. We're not. Since I introduced the whole Ronny J 2 cm bit, it's fairly obvious that I'm not for leaving it out. It provides more information than simple "injury", information that seems more credible than not per my previous comment. It maybe wouldn't have been necessary if not for a certain editor's attempt to call it a mere scratch without sufficient RS support. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

As for Let's just be true to the sources, I think you mean let's be true to the source that says what you want. I don't see much other RS seriously calling Jackson's account into question. Certainly not many saying it was a scratch. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:01, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Not following that, Mandruss. Isn't that the AP source that you added when you added the 2 cm? I just tried to conform the article to the cited source, which goes on at considerable length to cast doubt on RJ as a credible or significant factfinder. SPECIFICO talk 13:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Just looks like excessive detail and did not add value. I did not read it as the RS going to considerable length to cast doubt. PackMecEng (talk) 14:46, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Shall we escort Ronny and his laceration from the page? It's not even clear that he actually examined the patient. SPECIFICO talk 17:46, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I added the AP source, which has more info about the nature of the injury, and the sentence about Trump not disclosing the medical and ER records on injury and treatment. Unless the FBI has access to those and mentions them in the publicly released part of their report, that's all we'll ever find out. I also added the Wikilink to Jackson's page. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 17:50, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Not following that, Mandruss... - The point is that we need to at least try to be true to the body of RS, not just the RS that we cite. As I tried to indicate, the AP source is not representative of the body of RS regarding the credibility of Jackson's memo. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:18, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Jackson is not quoted. Trump presented a document attributed to Jackson. Jackson is roundly discredited by mainstream RS for the reasons in that cited article and many other reasons. There is no consensus to include this content as if it were of any medical significance. Further, given Trump's splendid recovery -- which today he boasted was due to the hand of God saving him to carry on his political role -- the whole issue of the wound is trivial. What may not turn out to be trivial is the spectacle of Trump addressing crowds from a glass cage like the parrots in the zoo and there may ultimately be psychological effects of this terrible shooting. But that will only be known some time in the future. When in doubt, take it out. Somebody will remove this fairly soon, I think, and correctly so. SPECIFICO talk 20:36, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

the whole issue of the wound is trivial. You didn't think it was so trivial when you made this edit. It could've been left alone. I prefer the current status quo per my earlier comments, but I have no strong objection to reverting to the state prior to your edit. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:07, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Ronny Jackson doesn't need to be mentioned in this article. The whole paragraph about the assassination attempt needs to be rewritten. R. G. Checkers ^talk 17:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Start rewriting! ―Mandruss ☎ 23:41, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that Ronny should go. VQuakr (talk) 17:51, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Ronny now booted by SPECIFICO.[1] ―Mandruss ☎ 22:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Good; endorsed. DFlhb (talk) 09:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2024

Add “convicted felon” to title. 2600:1700:F370:EED0:C410:5B19:636B:3B72 (talk) 02:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: and will not be done – Muboshgu (talk) 02:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Special Council Investigation

Saying the S.C.I. said the Russians did interfere in the elections to favor Trump is a Highly misleading sentence. It lacks context both before and after the sentence. You should definitely include the S.C.I. said there was NO COLLUSION between Russia and Donald Trump. And the S.C I. Is the F B I. Lead by director Robert Mueller. Stop calling it the Special Council Investigation. It's called the MUELLER REPORT. THE Russian Hoax was spearheaded by Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi. And the F.B.I was complicit in making the hoax credible. The hoax and all of its lies are completely exposed to the public in Congressional Hearings led by Jim Jordan. It's on YouTube. THAT sentence by itself talking about the Special Council and Russia should be immediately DELETED.There should be a proper section where the full context of the MUELLER report can be displayed. 96.79.132.6 (talk) 00:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

All meaningless without reliable sources, per Wikipedia content policy. Number of reliable sources you bring to the discussion: 0. And your focus should be on the body section, not the lead. That's where we actually cite sources, and the lead is a very brief summary of that. Bring reliable sources to suggest improvements to that section and we can discuss them. Then we can discuss whether any change is needed in the lead, which is seriously space-constrained and never has room to fully explain complicated and nuanced issues. Readers who stop reading at the end of the lead, as you apparently did, will always leave less than fully informed, and that's on them.

Otherwise, stop wasting your time and, more importantly, ours. ―Mandruss ☎ 01:28, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Just noticed: There should be a proper section where the full context of the MUELLER report can be displayed. Smh. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the proposal; the full context of the Mueller report. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 09:21, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Such as this one: Donald Trump#Mueller investigation, with links to Mueller special counsel investigation and Mueller report ? Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 11:16, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, "smh" means "shaking my head". I was shaking it because the OP is proposing something that already exists. ―Mandruss ☎ 18:23, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Please condense this article

This article is way too long. The article on Trump's opponent, Kamala Harris, is short and to the point. This article should be too. I can't edit it because I don't have 500 edits. Someone please fix this! Wiki Crazyman (talk) 23:13, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Donald Trump is a 78 yr-old man who has been in a public spotlight for 55 or more of those years, from business dealings to reality show host to politics. There is a lot to say and a lot to cover regarding his life and history, far more than a 59 yr-old woman whom the public has only been aware of for roughly a decade. A user with even an average attention span is able to read this article just fine. Zaathras (talk) 23:26, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Believe it or not, you're not saying anything new. Throughout this article's life since about 2015, I doubt any issues have been discussed more than its length. See the talk page archives. I would support early closure—this would be a re-hashing of something already hashed to death—but I'm not doing it unilaterally. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:42, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

believe it or not Kamala’s article is about the same excluding media and business dealings John Bois (talk) 23:52, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

This article and Kamala aren’t related to them being president these articles show what they have done in their lives so far and what’s happened in them John Bois (talk) 23:53, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Donald Trump on social media

Seeing as Donald Trump relies so heavily on social media and much of the news about him concerns his statements on social media I find the wikipedia rule against sourcing social media ridiculous. Why would that rule exist? You people do realise social media makes up about a quarter of the internet anyway. Thats like making an internet dictionary about everything but wait we'll exclude the most popular stuff. At the very least we should be allowed to add his X account to the external links. Maybe not his facebook group as it is dead. http://www.facebook.com/groups/donaldtrump 202.86.32.122 (talk) 02:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Remove untruth from article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Please remove this unfounded, unproven, debunked statement from this article. You are promoting hate against another human with untruths here is untrue statement to remove He was the only U.S. president without prior military or government experience. Trump promoted conspiracy theories and made many false and misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics.

If you want to be an upstanding article, remove this democrat party propaganda and state only truth otherwise you will become just one more of the untrustworthy publist we dont want to read 2600:6C5D:4800:E98:7821:A871:6D1A:D09C (talk) 22:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Attempted_assassination

Hello, Regarding the assassination attempt on Trump, the existing main text content was included in the main text without a separate subtitle, so the content was not highlighted and seemed to be hidden. However, I think that the assassination attempt attempted by the assassin with 8 bullets is the most interesting topic for Trump's life, which could take a person's life, and for those who support Trump, who make up nearly half of the American people. Regarding assigning a separate subtitle to this, please give your opinion on assigning a subtitle, and if there is anything to revise or supplement the content. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 01:37, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The purpose of section headings is navigation, not emphasis. It is difficult to assess the relative importance of aspects of a subject when events are recent, but it seems improbable that a minor wounding will end up being a particularly important aspect of a former President's life. VQuakr (talk) 02:02, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Even though 45th President of U.S. dodged the bullet by an inch, saving his life, and the bullet wound be not be a minor injury, anyone who reading this article would have died if the bullet had hit any human in the face by an inch, and it would have been 100% fatal.

If we look more specifically at the evidence,

If you look at the attached video below, all eight bullets were aimed at the former president, and if the former president had not been able to dodge in time, that is, if he had not turned his head, he would have died at the scene.

• If you look at the specific time analyzed in the 24 minutes video, if you look at the attached video from 16 minutes 01 seconds to 16 minutes 07 seconds, you can see that the 5 seconds video clip, with 3D modeling, shows that the Presidential assassin's bullet was actually aimed to kill President Trump, and that President Trump dodged it by just an inch to save his life. the eight bullets by the assassin surely can kill anyone who is reading this article as you understand.

Goodtiming8871 (talk) 12:43, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

That's a lot of ifs, and WP doesn't speculate. Trump did turn his head — for a reason other than literally dodging bullets — and ended up with a minor injury and an "iconic" picture that, just like the shooting, appears to be yesterday's news and something to be monetized. The shooting didn't change Trump's campaign strategy and rhetoric. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 15:22, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

More likely the sharpshooter was just aiming to scare him or muss up his hair. Just adding speculation the contrary for balance. While the authorities stated they were investigating the marksman's history and social media profile, I have not seen any conclusions as to his motivations or intended outcome. We really know nothing except the outcome -- nothing for Trump, and the tragic death and injuries among his audience. It's therefore dubious even to call this an attempted assassination. We do not know the shooter's intent or attempted intent or intended attempt. If Trump starts speaking in a glass cage, as has been proposed, that may thrust this incident back into the news. SPECIFICO talk 16:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

We got by RS and not insane theories. So let's just stick to what almost every high quality source says, which is it was an assassination attempt. We need to stop with the personal research you two. PackMecEng (talk) 18:00, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Pushing baseless conspiracy theories, insane theories, personal research — will you be done with the denigration any time soon? Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 19:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The editing of this article is actually a reality show called "Get Trump". In the current episode there is a contest to see how minimal the presentation of the assassination attempt can get. Bob K31416 (talk) 19:46, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, then our "show" lost to Britannica. They mention the felony convictions in the first paragraph of the lead, the other indictments and the civil suits in the second paragraph, and the impeachments in the third one. You have to scroll waaay down to find the short paragraph on the assassination attempt. Quote: "His injury was minor." I'm not sure whether we're ahead of or also lost to Conservapedia. They have a seven-paragraph section entitled "assassination attempt" which mentions everything from the "J6 witch hunt" to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to Theodore Roosevelt. The one thing they don’t mention is the actual shooting in Butler, PA. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 11:46, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm sure you're aware it's not denigration if it's well-founded. This page has long had an excess of what PME called personal research and we're not here to perform that kind of analysis—it's too vulnerable to personal bias. Some degree of it is necessary and appropriate, ie editorial judgment, making it impossible to draw a bright line. But we have taken it too far for so long, IMNSHO, that it seems normal. Words like "insane" may be out of line, but you might address the substance of the objection instead of the form. The latter is easy; the former is harder but more important. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:05, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Gee, thanks to you, too. (PME: Priority Mail Express, Professional Military Education, Premature Ejaculation?) "Insane" MAY be out of line? I won’t waste my time arguing with the writer of that epithet. As for your arguments, please take a look at the editing history of the "attempted assassination" section. I added it a few weeks ago because of RS at the time. After it got trimmed to the one sentence, I removed the heading, added the Wikilink to the sentence, and moved it into the "2024 campaign" section in chronological order. I have now added "presumed assassination attempt" (as in "appearing to be true on the basis of evidence that may or may not be confirmed") to the sentence, per the cited and other RS. BTW, all I do is "personal research" - of online sources and books I have bought. I don’t have a staff to do it for me, and I prefer not to make up my own facts. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 21:36, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for belatedly responding to the substance. I note that you vociferously object to "insane" one sentence after asking whether "PME" (quite obviously PackMecEng) means premature ejaculation. Here's a mirror. My point is that comments like this one and this one are almost completely divorced from Wikipedia content policy (yours a little better than SPECIFICO's) and have little place in article talk. I think it's time we started to cut down on that, though it would be very difficult to quit cold-turkey. I'm far more concerned about that than what this article says about the shooting. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:01, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Declining the mirror — maybe it’s the humidity clogging my brain, but "PME" wasn’t obvious to me as an abbreviation for an editor’s name. It was just another abbreviation I didn’t find at Wikipedia:Wikipedia_abbreviations and then looked up "on the internet", results as expected. As for my "lot of ifs" comment, it was in response to this one by another experienced editor, so I didn’t WP:RS them. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 10:31, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Here's the text of the current version[2], which consists of a single sentence in the article.

"On July 13, 2024, Trump was nicked on the ear by gunfire at a campaign rally in Butler Township, Butler County, Pennsylvania."

Note that it is not called an assassination attempt, which is consistent with SPECIFICO's personal idea that it may not have been that.

This can be compared to the section Assassination attempts in the Gerald Ford article. Bob K31416 (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@SPECIFICO I think we can speculate that as a registered republican who donated to the DNC after witnessing Jan 6, the shooter was attempting to kill the former president, his motive being a fear of Trumps return to power and the percieved resulting threat to the republic? Halbalbador (talk) 11:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

No WE can't speculate about anything (see wp:or). Slatersteven (talk) 11:38, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Got your facts in the wrong order. Crooks donated $15 to a get-out-the-vote site on January 20, 2021, and registered as a Republican in September 2021, i.e., both after witnessing Jan 6. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 12:41, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@SPECIFICO: Noting that he did, in fact, start speaking from behind bulletproof glass like you said. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:54, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the place where the assassin fired eight bullets at Trump, if it is said that this was not an assassination attempt, it will be seen as representing the opinions of supporters of the Democratic Party in the United States who are trying to downplay the assassination attempt. I think that an objective view on this should be based on the fact that the major American media outlets, such as the National Broadcasting Company (NBC), CBS (formerly the Columbia Broadcasting System), the American Broadcasting Company (ABC), and the Fox Broadcasting Company (Fox), have stated that the assassin fired several bullets at President Trump and that it was an assassination attempt. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 12:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Per MOS:NAVLIST,

I will replace the previous normal campaign photo with an image of the related to the assassination attempt, as this is a significantly more impactful and relevant event for the section. Given the gravity of the incident, readers will likely find this image more engaging and informative.Goodtiming8871 (talk) 02:01, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

That photo is not representative of his campaign and should not be used in that manner. Show his two-fisted Trump Dance. Much more emblemmatic of his rallies than a one-shot exception. SPECIFICO talk 02:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I think the Two Fist Trump Dance would also add to the symbolism of the rally. If you noticed a photo that shows the rally dynamically, please post it. How about adding a suitable photo related to the assassination attempt? For example, a photo that shows how far away the assassin was from Trump. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 11:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Injury, scratch, nick, etc.

We can't say he was injured. It's not specific enough and it sounds like a laceration to the kidney or Ronald Reagan style near-death lung puncture. He was scratched. As he explained to the world in his convention speech, the ear is richly supplied with blood vessels - hence the mess on his cheek. SPECIFICO talk 02:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

We can say injured/injury precisely because it's very general. It's a word nobody can dispute, so it's hardly OR to say it. Not so for scratched/scratch; if you want to say that you'll need to show widespread use in RS. From what I've read, I don't think you can.

But injured/injury is not all we say as of yesterday. Since it's very general, we add more information as follows: "Former White House physician Ronny Jackson said he had seen the injury and that it was a two-centimeters-wide gunshot wound to Trump's right ear." I don't think that sounds anything like a laceration to the kidney or Ronald Reagan style near-death lung puncture. It certainly doesn't sound like a scratch. Jackson arguably has credibility issues, but we're attributing his words to him rather than accepting his words as Truth and stating them as fact using wikivoice. Compare and contrast: "The injury was a two-centimeters-wide gunshot wound to Trump's right ear."

Unless/until medical records are released/reported, I doubt we can do much better without OR and without consuming too much space for this article. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it's fair to say that he was injured.

Let's say the person reading this was grazed by a bullet. If it was the same wound, if it was a fall and the same amount of blood was shed, or if it was a knife wound and the same amount of blood was shed, it could be expressed as a scratch.

However, since the wound is only 1 inch inside the face, it is a bullet wound that could take the life of the person reading this article, or if the bullet hit the inside of the face, it is reasonable to say that it is an injury.

Even if it is the same wound, if the cause is a bullet wound that could actually take the life of a person, it is medically considered an injury, and for this reason, major media outlets around the world reported that it was an obvious assassination attempt that saved the life by only 1 inch. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 11:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Since we’re wading into the knowns, i.e., the details the Trump campaign released to the press, then we should also wade into the known unknowns RS mentioned. AP writes about the memo that was written by Jackson and released by the campaign: The bullet track, he said, "produced a 2 cm wide wound that extended down to the cartilaginous surface of the ear", i.e., an 0.79" skin-deep furrow, and that no sutures were required. (Or, as Jackson said earlier, the bullet took "a little bit off the top of his ear".) The AP source also says that the Trump campaign declined "to disclose medical records or hold briefings with the doctors who treated him at the hospital". Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 12:33, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks like there's a lot of contortions and contrivances here trying to minimize the close to death situation where a sniper on a rooftop with a powerful assault rifle shot at former president and presidential candidate Trump and got so close to killing him that the bullet hit his ear. The seriousness of the attack is further illustrated by the shooting death of a person nearby and the critical injury by gunshot of two others in the same attack with the assault rifle. Trump was very fortunate that he was not killed. Yet some editors are trying to diminish the significant danger to Trump's life by focusing attention on the minor nature of the wound. This reminds me of a time many decades ago when someone asked, "Have You No Sense of Decency?" Bob K31416 (talk) 04:04, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Your comment (rant) is no more policy-based than those of the editors you're complaining about, and violates the spirit if not the letter of NOTFORUM, AGF, and NPA. Just because something is true, if in fact it's true, that doesn't mean it has any place on this page. If an editor Has No Sense of Decency, shaming them here is not going to force them to grow some. Stay focused on policy, not editor motives; if that's not enough, the AP2 area of the project is a lost cause anyway. And that may well be the case. I suggest realism and pragmatism. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:51, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

References