Talk:Delmarva Peninsula/Archive 1

Archive 1

An island?

Only technically. If you want to say that the Delmarva is an island, then technically the entire state of Indiana is on an "island", since the construction of the St. Lawrence Seaway, combined with the construction of the Illinois and Michigan Canal, made it possible to sail from Chicago to the Gulf of Mexico, up the Atlantic Seaboard, and up the St. Lawrence, through the Great Lakes, until you returned to Chicago. Does that make the Eastern US an "island"? Of course not. Islands are not created when canals cross isthmi. Unschool 07:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. With that same logic, that would mean every country in South America and Africa are all "island nations", thanks to canals across their isthmi (the Panama and Suez Canals). That is backward logic and while it's acceptible to reference its existance, nothing more should come of it as it is still a peninsula; manmade bodies of water do not effect or change the status. EaglesFanInTampa (formerly Jimbo) 13:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

a confusion has ocurred between "technically surrounded by water" and "technically an island". Narrow bodies of water aren't usually counted as "surrounding an island with water", hence "technically an island" still depends on whether people consider something to count as an island - i.e. there is no simple "technically" definition of island. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.172.99.15 (talk) 03:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

As you say, there is no simple "technical" definition of an island — a small piece of land in the middle of a canal would likely be called a (man-made) island but I think it's fair to say that most people do not consider that, for example, the Corinth Canal to make an island of the Peloponnese. Because of this, I've changed the phrasing to "could be considered to be an island". Dricherby (talk) 00:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

None of the above "canal" rationales apply in this case. The Chesapeake and Delaware Canal has no locks. It is at sea level, so that the salty tidal waters of the sea can flow back and forth though it to the north of the island, just as they can to its south, or east, or west. If being surrounded by free-flowing tidal sea water does not make an island, then I don't know what does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.Slade (talk • contribs) 02:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Older name?

If the name Delmarva is less than 100 years old, surely the peninsula must have been called something before that. What was it known as in the 1800s? --Reuben (talk) 05:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

There was no collective name for the peninsula, just as there's no special name for the part of southern New Jersey that's essentially also peninsular. The parts of Maryland and Virginia on the peninsula were known as the Eastern Shores of Maryland & Virginia, and the whole east side of the Chesapeake Bay as the Eastern Shore--the rest of the peninsula was Delaware. Pilch62 (talk) 01:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I went through a set of historical maps, and just as you said, none of them give a name for the peninsula. It's very surprising that such a prominent geographical feature could remain nameless for so long, but I suppose it just shows that a few hundred years ago, peninsulas weren't considered objects that needed to be named. Thanks for the information. --Reuben (talk) 03:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

My take on it is this: until the 20th century, most travel around the peninsula was done by ship, and was in any case mainly between the two sides of the Chesapeake Bay. To us, today, referring to the "Eastern Shore" seems odd, since we never travel via the Bay. And since the water features were all named, naming the mass of land they (almost) surround was of only secondary importance. Another example of an unnamed peninsula: I live in San Francisco, but the peninsula of land on which it sits doesn't have an aggregate name, except "the Peninsula". And in SF, at least, only the part south of SF is "the Peninsula". Pilch62 (talk) 05:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually I believe it is properly named the "San Francisco Peninsula," and the name goes back some time. If you search Google Books, you can find it in use in the mid-1800's at least. --Reuben (talk) 07:33, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Whaddya know!! I don't ever remember hearing it called that here, tho' the fact that it's the "San Francisco" peninsula makes it a confusing moniker, at best. I also see that about 1/2 those Google Book cites reference "San Francisco peninsula", with a small "p". The opposing peninsula I see from the same source(s) is called the "Marin Peninsula", tho' again no one here refers to it as such--just "Marin", which is usually taken to refer to the county, not the peninsula. My search for another unnamed peninsula continues . . . Pilch62 (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Good point; the names of peninsulas seem to be often in limbo between being proper names and simple descriptions. That made me think of looking in Google books from the 1800s for other names for the Delmarva Peninsula. There were a variety of hits for "Maryland Peninsula," "Delaware and Maryland Peninsula," "Delaware Peninsula," "Chesapeake Peninsula," "Chesapeake and Delaware Peninsula," etc., with variable capitalization and ordering. So it seems like peninsulas often borrow the names of the places on them, and don't have unique or very fixed names, unlike islands. --Reuben (talk) 04:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

And I just did the same search, using "Eastern Shore Peninsula", for which there are a number of citations, as well as "Eastern Shore peninsula", small "p". In other places the "Eastern Shore" was said to be the entire peninsula. Paradoxically, the Delmarva Peninsula is made up of many smaller peninsulas, or "necks", between rivers and creeks, and the vast majority of those have names going back to the colonial period, unlike the peninsula as a whole. Very interesting discussion--thanks! Pilch62 (talk) 05:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Blend vs. portmanteau

let me just say that, as someone who tries to keep an eye on this article, my initial instincts in light of Ottava Rima's edits screamed "interloper!" but now that i go and look it up, Blend is, technically, correct. - Metanoid (talk, email) 18:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure there is truly consensus on whether portmanteau is incorrect, and there are quite a few posters on Ottavo Rima's talk page (and on the portmanteau talk page Pilch62 (talk) 19:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)) who are objecting to him changing every instance he can find. The other issue is that "blend" is confusing in that it although it may be a term of art in linguistics (and I'm not convinced yet that it's truly more apt than "portmanteau" even in that context), it's also a word that's used in many different ways. "Portmanteau" is not obviously wrong, and is less confusing to the layperson.

What about "acronym"? I know that they're usually just first letters of words, but there are certainly occasions when at least the second letter is included.

PS: Metanoid, you're from the Eastern Shore? Pilch62 (talk) 19:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

indeed i am! but i guess that's neither here nor there where this issue is concerned. :) "acronym" seems less ambiguous than the other options (though i really really like the word "portmanteau"!). whoever was the last editor before you, maybe we'll see what s/he thinks, but otherwise, "acronym" suits me fine. - Metanoid (talk, email) 00:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, the whole discussion of portmanteau is being taken to a new level (downward, unfortunately), and the initiator of said discussion has been blocked, so for the time being I think leaving it as it is is just fine. I, too, like the word! Pilch62 (talk) 00:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Terminology here is not fixed. A few Wikipedians are evangelists for the nontechnical "portmanteau" and the Russian calque "syllabic abbreviation". I favour Bauer's "clipping compound" as being bith attested and specific. Algeo would call it a type of "blend", while Quirk would call it a type of "acronym". jnestorius^(talk) 13:41, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

As a native of delmarva I believe we were taught that delmarva is an acronym, of course that doesn't mean it's right. Portmanteau appears to be a better definition than a blend in my opinion, due to the fact that it's more than two words being merged together, but I feel acronym is the best choice. David (talk) 22:17, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I've sidestepped this whole argument by rephrasing the article to say that "Delmarva" is just "formed from" the components. I note that the acronym article cites Delmarva in its introduction, but in a way which contradicts the definition given in the previous sentence of the article, namely that acronyms are formed from either the initial letters of the words or initial components of them. "Va" is not an initial component of "Virginia". Dricherby (talk) 00:09, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Northern Boundary

No where in this article is the exact northern boundary of the peninsula described. I know that there is a differnce in opinion on where the boundary is, but my impression is that most consider all of Cecil Co, and all New Castle Co. part of Delmarva. Making this change would change much of the scope of the article so I am not inclined to edit it myself. But I think at the least a referrence to this should be included, if not a complete change. I would also like to see a better map that includes some place names. For example: http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usstates/lgcolor/delmarva.gif --Spinifer (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

That's interesting--I personally have never heard that perspective on the northern boundary before. I think of the C&D Canal as the northern border, in part b/c it's a definite line across the peninsula, and in part b/c it's also approximately the narrowest part of the northern end of the peninsula. The flaw with including all of New Castle County is of course that no one thinks of Wilmington as being on Delmarva (AFAIK). The article also implies that the fall line could be the northern border, another reasonable idea. Since I don't think there's really a concensus, ambiguity may be the better part of valor . . . Pilch62 (talk) 17:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Having lived on the Delmarva Peninsula my whole life, in Sussex County, I've never heard of anyone including Cecil County, Maryland or all of New Castle County, Delaware as part of the Delmarva Peninsula. The local news channels, WBOC & WMDT, that cover the whole peninsula, don't cover anything north of Smyrna in Kent County although it is widely accepted that the C&D Canal is the northern boundary for residents. Superman7515 (talk) 16:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

At this writing, I am seeing (for the Catholic diocese of Wilmington) that that diocese "comprises the entire state of Delaware and the Eastern Shore of Maryland (i.e. the parts of the Delmarva Peninsula not in Virginia)". There is a discrepancy, because when I come to this (Delmarva Peninsula) article, I see a reference to Elk River in the north, but that comes down from Pennsylvania and isn't even in the state of Delaware. We need a better definition of the northern limit of the Delmarva Peninsula. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 21:18, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Delmarva (state) merger

The Delmarva (state) article is just a copied excerpt from the Delmarva Peninsula page, and only like two sentences long. I was ready to do a redirect but wanted everyone's opinions first, just in case someone tries to revert the edits. Jgera5 (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Each state proposal should have it's own article. See Category:Proposed states of the United States. In a separate article it also can better grow than somewhere within a peninsula article. TopoChecker (talk) 00:17, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

The concept of a Delmarva state can easily be covered in this article. Dough4872 02:08, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with TopoChecker. The two articles cover two very different subjects. One is about a geographic feature. The other is about a political proposal. The latter article may be brief now, but it can develop and should remain separate.LanternLight (talk) 00:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Except in this case it lacks notability. Merged. --TimL (talk) 16:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Transclusion

[Transclusion] from Delmarva (proposed state):

Remove?

This section needs to be removed unless SOMEONE can come up with some evidence and historical data of this so-called movement. 214.13.47.111 (talk) 14:37, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Proposal to merge Eastern Shore (proposed state) to Delmarva (proposed state). Discuss here. GenQuest ^{"Talk to Me"} 09:19, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

My only thoughts are we are talking about two different things. One was to create a new state consisting of only the counties of the "eastern shore" of Maryland, the other was to create a new state out of counties from Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia. The "Delmarva" state was not to include Cecil County, which was part of the "Eastern Shore" state, but would have included Kent County, Delaware; Sussex County, Delaware; Accomack County, Virginia; and Northampton County, Virginia. They were two distinctly different proposals, one of which would have affected three states while the other affected only one.Superman7515 (talk) 16:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

As Delmarva (proposed state) is currently a redirect to a short paragraph within Delmarva, I think it's a little early to merge Eastern Shore (proposed state) into it. Somebody needs to write the article first. Until that gets done, please visit my proposal to merge Eastern Shore (proposed state) with Eastern Shore. Folklore1 (talk) 21:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

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Map

Can someone please replace this map with a more informative one? There are practically no names on this one. I'm from California (one of the two other "Bay Areas" in the US, the other being Tampa Bay) so it is NOT a no-brainer for me to identify those bodies of water, the actual states that are within the boundaries, etc. Thank you! Tina Kimmel (talk) 17:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

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