Talk:Deaths in June 2019

Linda Collins' DoD

I saw Rusted AutoParts remove the "body discovered on this date" the other day for no apparent reason, so made her article a bit clearer and restored it. Today I see he's removed it again, citing the same obituary I just used to make her article even clearer. The irony is doubly delicious here, no doubt, so thanks for that. But I'm left wondering how much clearer I should make the article to have this qualifier stick?

Neighbours heard gunshots from the vicinity a "day or two" prior to police finding an unrecognizably decomposed corpse. I've never been to Arkansas, but hear it's generally warmer this time of year than my own still-cool neck of the woods. Given that, I can see how a rural body could go south in a day or two, especially wearing a blanket (and possibly accelerated by someone intimately familiar with testimony regarding destruction of evidence). But within hours? I've seen some terribly ravenous scavengers in my years as a livestock and forest owner, but nothing that hungry north of the Everglades or outside of a tall tale. Have you?

If not, maybe reconsider our current timeline. And yeah, the obituary does say June 4. But that could very well be because it has to say something. Headline writers everywhere have standards and templates, and little room for clarifactory nuance or nonsense. Note the lead doesn't say she died on any particular day, just some specific place. That omission says something, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:42, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

April 17, 1962 - June 04, 2019. That'll do me for an RS. WWGB (talk) 10:04, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

As I just said, that's the headline. The underlying reliable source only notes the birthdate. Compare to the usual format if you think this is simply the way things go around there. It's telling, I tell you (especially in light of everything else RS say) but if you insist, I'll desist. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

The Fears Family Funeral Home is burying her under instruction from her family for sure. If they've been given June 4th 2019 as a death date by the family, and posted it in the notification as they have done, there's no real argument left. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:13, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they're burying her on June 15, as the obit surely does note. And she was verifiably born when they say she was. But there's no death date in the story, despite that being Fears' standard practice for people with known death dates, only the headline (which family members do not help write and is probably only required for a computer to include this entry on the website's chronological list).

In a recent story specifically about the family's press conference, Joelle Goldstein notes "It still remains unclear how, when, or why she was killed". She also repeats the oft-repeated claim by her press secretary that multiple neighbours agree multiple gunshots came a day or two earlier. The World Tribune says "It’s not clear when Collins-Smith died as her remains were decomposed." In Blake Alsup's words, "It’s not known how long she had been dead when her body was discovered".

If the three of you are so sure you've solved this mystery that trained journalists couldn't, maybe you should turn in your Wikipedian badges and start making serious coin with your amazing original research skills, instead of squandering them to muddy the waters in this podunk pond (or at least tip off Crime Stoppers). And I don't mean that sarcastically or snidely, just genuinely predicated on a pretty big "if". InedibleHulk (talk) 12:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

We just use what we can dude. We have an official obituary from the funeral home citing June 4. And yes, family does help write obituaries. My mother helped piece together my fathers. I and the others aren’t trying to solve some grand mystery, right now we have a source pinpointing the fourth. So I used it. If it’s like a John Singleton situation where it’s a different dod we’ll change accordingly. Rusted AutoParts 15:23, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

I grew up in a funeral home and have typed obituaries, and you're absolutely correct about the family providing details for it (sometimes even the format). Who better to ask than the people who'd know and are paying for it? But the obituary doesn't mention June 4, no matter how often we all agree the headline does. The space where that date normally goes only notes a death place, either because the medical examiner hasn't provided the family with that information yet, or the family isn't authorized to publicize it while the murder investigation continues. Regardless of why it isn't there, it isn't. This omission alone is simply suggestive, but when combined with dozens of reliable sources (I only showed you three because I like three) explicitly calling the death date unknown and the discovery date known, those two reported facts should count for more than a personal hunch about who's really behind headlines that don't match their own stories. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:05, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

From what I gather, Singleton's death date was actually misreported in the substantive portion of published sources, then later corrected. This is not a similar situation, for that reason. We are awaiting any reported date of death now, not a different one. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:24, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

”We are awaiting any reported date of death now, not a different one“. ...I mean, we do have one. June 4. As per the funeral home site. Rusted AutoParts 18:07, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Headline only. For chronological sorting purposes, exactly like we do when we know we don't know. And just "per"! InedibleHulk (talk) 18:56, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

But i don't see how that disqualifies it because it's only in a headline. It's still identifying a day of death. They could've simply had it as June 2019. But they put the 4th. So for me personally that suffices. And again, if we get more details that surfaces a different date of death than we'll change accordingly. For now though, the funeral home hosting her services is a solid enough source to use. Rusted AutoParts 19:02, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

It doesn't identify a date of death, though, you've just been reasonably mistaken into thinking it does because those are usually identical. It's telling a computer to display her entry before Hinkle's, but after Murphy's. Like how we place MC Reaça under "1", because it's better than nothing. Here's Fears' web designer's technical support. Wouldn't hurt to ask, if you think I'm crazy. I'm only mad as hell enough to take it to the Reliable Sources noticeboard; there's no way one self-contradictory headline (allegedly published by a relative with a conflict of interest) beats dozens of contradictory articles from actual journalists for reputable publications using plain English words. Shenanigans, I tell you! InedibleHulk (talk) 19:18, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Alright, I've alerted the authorities. Probably best to continue this there, if at all. Not trying to get anyone "arrested", just looking to find the right thing to do. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:57, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Billy McKee and Country

He was NOT Northern Irish. He was the symbol of everything non-British and non-Northern Irish. Even his bio page on Wiki clearly states that he was an Irish Republican even though he was born inside the Nine Counties (which is now Six after the accord). I think its fairly obvious to whom he chose to self identify with as leader of the P-IRA. To put it another way, it would be akin to calling the Dalai Lama Chinese. Simply wrong on every level.Sunnydoo (talk) 00:34, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Milton Quon

Milton Quon's death was reported by his son Mike Quon on Mike's facebook page with pictures. What better source? [1] Socalphoto (talk) 02:42, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Per WP:SOCIALMEDIA, we need a better source. I had initially tagged his entry with "better source needed" because we usually allow such sources temporarily, but Folengo removed it entirely with edit. — Wyliepedia @ 02:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Also, what is to say that the 'Mike Quon' account is not one of the many fake ones at Facebook? That's why social media is rarely reliably verifiable. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:44, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

AF News is a popular Italian site specialized in comics. They broke the news about the death of many Italian cartoonists recently and every time it was true, as confirmed later by major Italian newspapers. I think this should be allowed as a source, mainly because we are certain from other sources we can't use (Disney ARL verified account and Cartoon Brew verified account) that he is dead. Won't get more than this. --Folengo (talk) 15:17, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2019

Could you please change the age of actor Billy Drago? Most sources say he was 73. Also could someone please clarify the age discrepancies, I have seen three different dates this far: in 1945, 1946 and 1949. Could save you from endless editings back and forth. [2] 95.195.222.154 (talk) 16:42, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

When sources disagree on birthdates, we usually go back to the subject article and follow the carefully researched information in it for an age. In any case, the source being used also states an age of 73. Happy to oblige. Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:17, 28 June 2019 (UTC)