Talk:Deaths in August 2018

Suicide or fall?

Rick Genest

As per usual in the days following a reported suicide, Rick Genest's family and manager have spoken out saying that they believe he did not commit suicide, that his death was from an accidental fall. The manager states that Genest routinely went on out on a balcony, which has low railings, to smoke and has nearly fallen before, and did so at the time of death. His relatives mention a lack of suicide note, that he "loved to write", was very articulate, and would be more likely to leave a note if suicidal.

His article reflects both the police report of suicide and the concerns above (not in detail). Should we leave his entry here as "suicide", "suspected suicide", or remove it entirely until it's settled? — Wyliepedia @ 14:24, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Safer and showing more respect to his family by removing for now, I would have thought. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Even worse, when I went to his article to research, the brazen claim was that suicide was "ruled by police". No such thing - the quoted source merely stated that Lady Gaga said it was suicide. Very dodgy situation as it stands. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:59, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@Refsworldlee: That lead addition was recent, and I debated on removing it entirely, but BLP leads allow mentioning deaths, so I added the correct source. — Wyliepedia @ 15:09, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

The source I saw there only said a police source told CBC this. Far from a ruling (which police don't make), and not even a public statement. I'd say Anonymous Billy isn't even solid enough for us to call it a "suspected" suicide here yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:04, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Spot on, InedibleHulk. Coroners rule, police suspect. And if police are only suspecting, and coroners have not examined the case, it shouldn't be used here as a definite cause of death (I say again, probably on deaf ears). I should perhaps apologize for my aforethought provocative edit on Rick Genest, where I changed the preposterous "police ruled it was suicide" to read "Lady Gaga said it was suicide". Deliberate irony used, I admit, in trying to prove a small point in that article and perhaps in a wider sense here. Ref ^(chew)(do) 05:55, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Gaga has now tweeted an apology for speaking "too soon". — Wyliepedia @ 15:40, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

She apologizes if she spoke too soon. Subtle difference, but not admitting wrongdoing leaves the door open for claiming to have always trusted her instincts and believed in herself, deep down. That sort of intangible integrity is important to a boldy forward-thinking Australian virtua cop, and she certainly fits that profile. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:09, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Ellen Joyce Loo

Another death from falling. She was publicized as being bipolar, and no foul play was suspected in her death. I added the "deaths from fall" category to her article, since it is also listed here. I expect most future sources to not be in English, but this is another one to follow in the days to come. — Wyliepedia @ 21:29, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

This source (in English) quotes police as stating it was a suicide. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:58, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Evidence for 'Barry Elliot'

(opening section of Pointless Celebrities Sept 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvf1HBbFpw

Darcourse (talk) 15:09, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Evidence for 'Barry Chuckle'

• About 8,410,000 Google News results. Only about 212, 000 for Elliott. YouTube is also not a source we use. Rusted AutoParts 15:13, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

One more opinion: commonly known as Barry Chuckle, therefore Barry Chuckle. I go no further than that slice of logic. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:04, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Private sidebar on admissibility of evidence

This is hearsay from a habitually unreliable witness. During recess, it informed me it's seen only about 423,000 for "Barry Chuckle", and could produce a mere 79, ending in a rambling diatribe about something called Oasis. Also, the numbers in Exhibit B are unlike any I've seen in a URL in twenty years of Googling. I understand the rhetorical importance "eight million to one" has in making evidence appear overwhelming, but I fear if we keep presenting the 21st-century equaivalent of a confused drunken prostitute's testimony as though it's somehow qualified to speak as an expert, the peanut gallery may soon view our esteemed tribunal as nothing more than a kangaroo court (or something even less).
Perhaps more damningly, this snakelike wretch of a fibber has shown me a verifiable 243 results for the plaintiff, which I think we can all agree is the objectively higher number. Wouldn't want the jury to somehow discover that bit of meaningless trivia, would we? Better to play up how the right and honourable British Academy of Film and Television Arts unequivocally stated its expert opinion that Barry Elliot was in fact known as Barry Chuckle. Barring that, I move we dismiss the case, with prejudice. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Brian Danovich

Please discuss his notability. Per his death source, he was supposed to be a contestant on WWE Tough Enough#$1,000,000 Tough Enough (season 4), but he tore his "pectoral muscle during the tryouts...[was given] a developmental contract...[but] never made it to the main roster [and] after a couple of consecutive injuries, he was eventually released from his WWE developmental contract." In my opinion, this fails WP:ENTERTAINER because he sure isn't sports-notable. Thoughts? — Wyliepedia @ 13:27, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Remove. NN, with a totally mistaken redirect to an insignificant snippet about how he failed to make a mark on the show or even maintain a sideline contract offer from the producers. Not enough internet coverage to include him based on column inch mentions either, IMO. Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:45, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Keep An article after thirty days seems unlikely, but so it does for many almost-famous reality show contestants. If we're cancelling him early, cancel Poppy Kramer, Jessica Vogel and Nicholas "Duffy" Fudge, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

(I'd probably agree with those, too.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Throw Bill Loud on the pile, too, things aren't as blue as they seem. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:50, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I disagree with you on Loud. There are several reasons why he and that show were notable. It was the precursor not only for reality TV but for TV shows later in the 70s like the Osmonds and Eight is Enough. It is generally listed in many of the critics all time TV top 50s even though it was around for only 1 season. As for the rest, I am for keeping them even though people like Lyric McHenry who died earlier in the week probably dont deserve it. Wiki is changing over time just like the reality we live in...instant news, viral stars (like the YouTubers) and twitteries 5 years ago were looked down on by Wiki land. However, all of that is changing over time and we might as well start embracing it or become a dinosaur. I am already yelling at kids to get off my lawn. The opposite side of the argument for those of us that have been here a while is just as unfun...how notable is notable? A terrifically and terribly hard question to answer on a case by case basis...and one that leads to a lot of hard feelings, scorched earth and endless bickering.Sunnydoo (talk) 16:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

No contest on the show's notability; arguably even more important than Tough Enough. But did Bill Loud do anything noteworthy independently of that show and not covered by its article? Perhaps. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:23, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Morgana King and Michael Scott Rohan

King's death has been announced by many reliable accounts on Twitter. I found this, but it seems it is only a good quality blog and we don't accept blog entries here. Hope she gets at least an obituary, she deserves it.

I found this for Rohan and I think it is all right. It is a reputable source, gives date and place of death, the article author is a well known sci-fi critic and author. Hope it is enough. --Folengo (talk) 08:14, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Good for Rohan, I think. However, have removed King due to the protection put on her article because of the use of the source also inserted here. If an admin calls a "violation of WP:BLP" in a person's article, we need to follow that lead here. Ref ^(chew)(do) 13:23, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

After two days without a single obituary I'm starting to suspect it was not true. --Folengo (talk) 18:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

WaPo says the King is dead- circa March 22nd....for some reason was not picked up at the time. [1] Sunnydoo (talk) 00:16, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Seems legit. I'm still a bit leery of Scott Rohan's source, but it's better than the first one. No real objections here. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:32, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I thought the Riders for Rohan (see what I did) were covered. One of the big SciFi mags has published an obit found here [2]Sunnydoo (talk) 00:39, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't "get" elf, space, crystal, laser or robot fantasy. More of a barbarian, volcano, gold, sword and serpent kind of guy. But after having to Google your references, they do seem clever and credible, respectively. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Hollywood Reporter is now saying King died from non-Hodgkins lymphoma, so we have a CoD now as well.[3]Sunnydoo (talk) 02:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

The Post said that already. I added it to her article, forgot about ours. If I have any say left, I say avoid The Hollywood Reporter where possible. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

March 22nd!!!! Well, I'm going to say I'm shocked. Ref ^(chew)(do) 05:47, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Meg Randall

I report here the alleged passing of American actress Meg Randall, aged 91, on August the 10th. Only source I found is this blog. It is very reliable, but not enough for Wiki standards. I'm looking for further confirmation. --Folengo (talk) 16:53, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Would a "very reliable" source tell you someone died on July 20 and August 10? Would it date its own testimony to August 10 and August 11? Meg Randall, aged 91, didn't even exist this August. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:26, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

The only thing you can ever say about Boothill is that it is usually right when it posts an obit. It lets itself down with its shoddy research and dating, as pointed out. Can't use it still. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

No date confusion in the cited report, for what it's worth. Just a bit about the alleged daughter. Nothing publicly searchable seems to suggest any relation prior to August 10, but that does happen in the real world. Howard Mutti-Mewse seems somewhat knowledgable about faded stars. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I removed her again from July 2018, still no reliable source. WWGB (talk) 01:24, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Could someone please take a look at Deaths in July 2018#20? An IP editor has added back Meg Randall with a cite that I think is a rather dodgy source. I don't want to get into an edit war but I don't think "aveleyman.com" meets our standards. Thanks. WWGB (talk) 00:20, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2018

Sorry that I do not have enough edits to qualify. However an entry should be added to August 16th for Dave Rothenberg, also known as Dave Dave. [4] Legalobserver (talk) 17:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Not done: only those with a Wikipedia article are added to this list. Danski454 (talk) 19:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Danski454. What are you talking about? People that don't have an article can be added anyway given them 30 days to get an article created. DrKilleMoff (talk) 19:52, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

According to local media he died over a month ago (July 15), so not sure how the 30-day rule applies in such a case. Skudrafan1 (talk) 20:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Danski454, and thereby Skudrafan1, are correct, Rothenberg died on July 15, 2018. Thus, without an article created, he cannot be added to any DI page, due to the 30-day expiration. But thanks for trying to build the web! — Wyliepedia @ 05:38, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Just for the record, Danski454 certainly is not correct, his comment coming without any reference to an already expired 30 day period (DrKilleMoff is the one who has corrected him). So, to make sure the rules are unmuddied by confusion, subjects without articles who pass minimum notability can be included for 30 days as a redlink. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:11, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I am neutral over whether or not to include him, I was answering under the idea that you only include people with articles, like with many other dynamic lists. --Danski454 (talk) 10:42, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

If you look at the current Deaths page (August), you will see it littered with redlinks, as has always happened. Even the latter part of the July 2018 page still has the expected redlinks, which get removed as the 30 day limit overtakes them. What is more contentious is the new subject being added having at least a minimum notability - this is sometimes disputed but usually sorted out. Hope that makes it clearer. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 13:39, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Jill Janus

Not going to get into a revert situation on this subject here, but I think you'll find that whoever started out announcing her death took 1975 away from 2018 and got 43. (1975 is her birth year but her age is 42 in quite a few website entries - try obit sources such as here and here, and biography-based factoidals like the ones here and here) Yes, that subtraction method is perfectly good math on the face of it, but doesn't take into account that her self-confessed birthday is September 2nd (her Facebook About page), and she hadn't therefore reached 43 yet. (Please note: her family actually confirm everything about her death in their statement EXCEPT any date of birth or age, if you look closely at the obits.) Regardless, I know which age/DoB I shall be using for her in the obituary feature I post to a music social network I am a member of. (P.S. Look at her new standalone article if you don't believe me - and, no, I haven't edited it.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 18:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Issue now appears to be closed. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:43, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2018

Adding the Death of two Notable Cinema Public Figures at August 17, 2018 as follow: 1. 17August2018, Ezatullah Entezami, 93, Actor& Movice & Theater Director link : https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/سید_ضیاءالدین_دری 2. Sayed Ziauddin Dorri, 65, Movie Director. link https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/عزت%E2%80%8Cالله_انتظامی Hossein382 (talk) 21:39, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Partially done. Entezami's was added almost immediately upon death announcement. The other requires a source. — Wyliepedia @ 23:21, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Tom Frost and Jeff Lowe

It seems climbers Tom Frost and Jeff Lowe both passed away August 24, articles updated by IPs only. Sources still not official: [5], [6], [7]. –Gumruch (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Rock & Ice has put out an Obit for Lowe and I have updated the page source. I will look for Frost as well.Sunnydoo (talk) 17:24, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Got a link to another of the climbing magazines for Frost now...and a CoD from Cancer.Sunnydoo (talk) 17:28, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Tony Hiller

British songwriter Tony Hiller's death has been reported here on Twitter and I also found this. According to these "sources" he died on August the 26, aged 91. He was quite known and also a notable member of London Jewish community, so he might get some coverage. Keep your eyes open. --Folengo (talk) 17:24, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Indeed he is definitely notable. Amongst other achievements he wrote "United We Stand", a Top 20 hit in 1970 in both the UK and US. A reliable source for his demise is not yet on the web, but I would have thought that the British media should pick up on it shortly. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 18:05, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Found one - not absolutely top notch but also not a blog or messageboard. The article does include a death date of August 26, 2018, but only by quoting a Facebook post, so "announced" on 27th for the moment. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

We do need better sources, but the source that says he died on "Sunday evening" looks authoritative. And he was certainly notable. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:43, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Mollie Tibbetts

This Talk Page used to have a discussion section about Mollie Tibbetts. Where did it disappear to? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Also, why was her entry deleted from the article? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:04, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

She was moved to July 18. Rusted AutoParts 18:10, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Check talk history, moved to Talk:Deaths in July 2018#Mollie Tibbetts. — Wyliepedia @ 04:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Mohamed Driss

The dead Mohamed Driss and the Mohamed Driss listed on this page doesn't seem to be the same person. In the Wiki article, he is described as 73-74 years old, and a writer, actor and theater director, who has been the leader of the National Theatre of Tunisia and the founder of the National Centre of Circus Arts and Visual Arts, while the deceased Mohamed Driss is in his obits described as an 80 years old musician and chief of the musical services on a local radio in Sfax. Except for the name, nothing about the wiki article and the obituary matches. Also, the pictures I find are not very similar. This is musician Mo Driss and this is writer Mo Driss. Nukualofa (talk) 19:52, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Agree. Changed his entry here and disambiguated to "musician". — Wyliepedia @ 01:48, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Well done. --Folengo (talk) 08:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)