Talk:Deaths in August 2017

Bobby Ortega – August 2

At cursory glance, I had pondered removing Bobby Ortega's entry (August 2) as being a local cop and city councilman, until I read about his hero status and saw there were two films inspired by his civic duty: Markang Bungo and Markang Bungo 2 (Kill Bobby Ortega). There's no way I will remove him now! — Wyliepedia 10:11, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

OK. Same here, and I'd been through the Tagalog Wikipedia search process to find him (only an actor of the same name came up). Glad I read the same article and noticed your entry here. Good enough for me. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:25, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Betty Cuthbert

Here and on her own page, we're saying she died 6 August, yet the cite we use for the vital dates in the lead para actually says 7 August. What gives? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:54, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

The site that page cites says August 6. Probably a typo in the middle of the chain. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:01, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I see. Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:06, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Joi S. J. Harris

Hi. This is going to prove a tricky one, I think. Given the vast amount of reportage out there on the internet regarding her sad death, and a fulsome list of results appearing during a Google search, I think it unlikely in the short-term that she will be accused of being non-notable and therefore being struck out here. However, as someone making their ill-fated debut in the stunt world, it leaves her ultimately with almost zero body of work to refer to if an article is eventually to be written about her. I think it more likely that an "event" ("Death of...") article, if any, will be created to cover her life. I will be interested to see if my section heading above ever turns to a bluelink. Thanks, apropos no particular issue. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:46, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't see either her or death ever becoming notable enough to have an article, outside of her being the first black woman to win a motorcycle race and/or dying during a stunt for an upcoming film. (Edit: And now her article has been created, although it repeats itself and is more about her death.) — Wyliepedia 22:29, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

"Traffic collision"

I'm not going to make a fuss over this, but I don't consider her COD as a "traffic collision". Yes, she lost control of her motorcycle (later revealed from a stuck throttle) while performing a stunt for the superhero flick, crashing through a window near Vancouver's Jack Poole Plaza, but I don't view that as a Sunday drive downtown. — Wyliepedia 22:29, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Tend to agree, so description could be addressed in some other way? Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:29, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Traffic collision seems deliberately broad, namely "A traffic collision occurs when a vehicle collides with another vehicle, pedestrian, animal, road debris, or other stationary obstruction". Basically, if anyone in or on a vehicle hits anything, it's covered by TC. That said, Harris's death could be described as a "motorcycle stunt crash" to better inform the reader. WWGB (talk) 23:56, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, well. An article now, after all that, and not yet nominated for AfD! Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:39, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I tweaked it some, or I would be one to vote against it in an AfD. As I said above, it does repeat itself and is largely about her death...but that's a discussion for elsewhere. — Wyliepedia 22:33, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

This isnt your typical traffic collision, as movies are filmed on closed sets. However it is not a "crash," as that implies fire and a loud sound. Whether that occurred or not was not attributed to her death because she died from blood loss after going through a plate glass window (ow!). Changing it to accident as stated in the BC Workplace report from this afternoon, pending a final ruling from them and the ME.[1] Sunnydoo (talk) 03:41, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Breaking a plate glass window is loud. No fire, but neither has a crash cymbal. I'm not big on calling things accidents here, but if it's temporary, I won't argue. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Barcelona attackers

Should the Barcelona attacked be on here? They all redirect to the article about the attack 172.58.70.245 (talk) 21:30, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

A redirect is allowable until 30 days have expired, after which it needs to have become an article in its own right, or it gets removed. The piping of a name to achieve a bluelink through association with an event article is NOT allowed at all. So the redirects stay, at least for 30 days. Hope this clarifies things for you. Ref ^(chew)(do) 22:28, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I should have said, "So the redirects stay, at least for 30 days, IF THE SUBJECT IS TRULY NOTABLE." Ref ^(chew)(do) 13:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Matthew Kia Yen-wen

In a recent edit, I changed Matthew Kia Yen-wen's description to "Chinese-born Taiwanese Roman Catholic prelate, Archbishop of Taipei (1978–1989), Bishop of Chiayi (1970–1974) and Hualien (1974–1978)" which was undone by InedibleHulk. I believe the most recent consensus regarding Taiwan-relalated articles (see Talk:Taiwan archives for detailed discussion and Talk:Ministry of Culture (Taiwan) for latest consideration) is to adhere to WP:COMMONNAME over WP:OFFICIALNAMES (that is, to use Taiwan). This view is supported in practice by the addition of Liu Wen-hsiung at Deaths in July 2017 as "Taiwanese politician, MLY (1999–2008)." Additionally, Lee Yuan-tsu is listed at Deaths in March 2017 as "Taiwanese politician, Vice President (1990–1996)." Paul Shan Kuo-hsi, who died in August 2012 is listed as a "Taiwanese Roman Catholic cardinal, Bishop of Kaohsiung (1991–2006)."

Out of these examples, I believe the only one that needs fixing to conform to consensus regarding the recent deaths page and Taiwan-related articles is Lee, so that his blurb reads as follows: "Chinese-born Taiwanese politician, Vice President (1990–1996)." Vycl1994 (talk) 02:20, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

The Taiwan issue on its own is complex enough. Combined with Vatican, Wikipedia and Deaths in... considerations, it's insanely complex. Rather than lose my mind, I'll forfeit. Carry on however you please. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

To nitpick, If I'd undone, it would've returned to "Taiwan Chinese". My version was just plain "Chinese". Only want to clarify that "Taiwan Chinese" sounds wrong to me, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:13, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that Kia "became" Taiwanese? He was born in China, and ministered in Taiwan, but was he granted Taiwanese citizenship or a Taiwanese passport? If not, he remained Chinese. Nothing to do with China-Taiwan recognition or relations. WWGB (talk) 03:32, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Nationality law of the Republic of China may help answer the question. See the "Nationality" section, which states as first of four criteria: "A person whose father or mother is, at the time of his (her) birth, a national of the Republic of China." Republic of China in this case, I believe, would refer to Republic of China (1912–49) as well as Republic of China (1949–present). Yen was born in 1925, so I think he is included in that number. However, the act was promulgated in 1929, and it is unclear whether or not it applied retroactively. If Yen worked as a national without household registration, though...

On a related note, I made a misstatement by omission in my first post to this thread. Depending on the outcome of this discussion, Paul Shan Kuo-hsi's description on the relevant deaths page will also need to be edited. Vycl1994 (talk) 04:58, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

According to this source, Kia was born in Taiwan, so he was Taiwanese all along. WWGB (talk) 14:15, 23 August 2017 (UTC)