Talk:Culture of Japan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Title of Article

Why did you move to Japanese Culture? Either "culture of Japan" or "Japanese Culture" seems fine. So there seems no need to move. -- Taku 02:04 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

"Culture" is too vague a first word and "Culture of Japan" is not a preferred English construction. Direct, not indirect, phrases are preferred. In English, "the son of John" is considered weak writing, while "John's son" is considered strong (See Microsoft Word grammar check, for additional examples.)

I understand what you are saying about Japanese culture are more proper English grammer. But then how about Culture of Chilna or Culture of the United States? I don't know actually much. I am just afraid If we started renaming Culture of Japan to Japanese culture then consequently we need to rename History of Japan to Japanese history too. Yeah, maybe we should do, but I am not sure. Tell me your idea. -- Taku

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I'm confused why you would put individual names of Japanese dishes on the main page, "Japanese Culture." There's already a link to japanese food, "Japanese Cuisine" on that page. I suggest we not dirty up a main page with trivia, don't you agree? (It's not that i do'nt like those entries. In fact, I wrote the dashi and agedashi tofu entries myself. I just think they don't belong there.)

I think some food or ingredients such as sushi or soy beans are necessary to discuss Japanese culture. The principle about the article on Wikipedia is every artcile should be complete, in other words, if similar explanations are somewhere around, one should put everything that is relevant. Maybe we need sections about Japanese food (or Japanese cuisine). Apparently the current article is worse than even good stub. Japanese culture should not just list up the links -- Taku 02:37 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

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Taku,

"Japanese cuisine" already implies "Sushi, Agedashi Tofu, Dashi, Soy sauce." Don't you think that you will defeat the purpose of your own "main page" on Japanese culture if you put all of this minutia on it? Will you list every Japanese dish known? Thousands? No. It's better to refer the reader to the Japanese Cuisine page, don't you think? If you put details all over this page, one day someone is likely to just redirect it to the "Japan" page. I like the "japanese culture" overview page, but it will become redundant or meaningless if you include too many details. "Japanese cuisine" is a part of "Japanese culture", but "agedashi tofu" is a part of "Japanese cuisine."

As far as "Culture of Japan" vs. "Japanse Culture"--yes! We should rename every "culture of XXXXX" to "XXXXXX's Culture." That's how good English is written.

(I'm enjoying this interaction with you. I hope are too.)

Your friend, Arthur Jan 11 02:42 UTC

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I don't think sushi or soy bean is a miniture. When I think of Japanese culture, I quickly imagine sushi or soy beans. They are good example of Japanese culture, so they should be here. Yeah, maybe agedashi tofu is too detailed so it should not be covered. (I love it, though, haha)

I agree with foo's culture. Then, how about History of Japan? Should it be Japanese history? Anyway, I am happy too to know there are some peoeple who care about Japanese culture as well as me. -- Taku 02:59 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

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Forgive me, but I'll say this only one more time. There are many levels in any topic of interest. If you list every Japanese Dynasty on your "Japanese Culture" page, it will be clear to everyone that these dynasties are "relevant to Japanese Culture." If you list every edible plant in Japan, it will be clear to everyone that those are "relevant to Japanese Culture." If you list every childhood story (say, about Kappa), it will be clear to everyone that those are "relevant to Japanese Culture." If you list every form of Japanese dress (kimono, for example) it will be clear to everyone that those are "relevant to Japanese Culture." If you list every Island of Japan, it will be clear to everyone that those are "relevant to Japanese Culture."

Where will this one page end? The "completeness" desired by wikipedia.org does not mean that they want all information on one page. From a College Professor to a College Student, I ask you--wouldn't it be better to have more than one page?

Your friend,

Arthur, 11 jan, 03:13 UTC

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Yes, the article should not list up all but should list up some good examples of Japanese culture. But also think that wikipedia is a little different than ordinaly WWW site page. There is not a page, but an article. Imagine ordinary encyclopedia artcile. When you talk about Japanese culture, you should mention some famous stuff such as sushi, soy beans, kimono, samurai. Anyway this debate is a kind of lame because the current artcile, Japanese culture is almost nothing but just a list of links. We can talk later when the artcile grows up to an encyclopedia article. So just do what you want to do. -- Taku 03:21 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

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okay. i messed up. this should not have been renamed to Japanese Culture. While my logic was okay, I didn't understand the standard Country reference style set forth for wikipedia. Now, however, I'm for some reason unable to name it back.

Arthur

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Semi-Reversion in Initial 'Graph

I am about to revert about the first half of the first 'graph to the state it had before the edit at 09:58, 2003 Dec 14 by 67.41.92.108. (Nothing else is lost in this process: as the appropriate diff shows, no one has edited that portion since.) This IP user's immediately previous 2 edits (20 minutes before) were to Ruth Benedict and reflected possibly a misunderstanding, but more likely a fringe PoV (and perhaps even an idiosyncratic PoV); they have been [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Ruth_Benedict&dummy=1&diff=0&oldid=3164443 NPoVed (but this diff will reflect edits after my own as well)], with the addition of contrary evidence.

The material removed from Culture of Japan to below in this talk is unsupported, and IMO is suspect in view of the combination of

• the anonymity of the editor,
• the demonstrated erroneousness of the edit of their article on Ruth Benedict,
• the overlap of the subject matter between this and her, and
• the closeness in time of the edits.

I have moved it here to assist others in seeking documentation to justify any part of the removed material, which i consider necessary if any part of it is to be restored.
Removed Text:

Japan endured intermittent periods of relative isolation from external influences, ending at the arrival of the "Black Ships" and the Meiji era; and with economic, cultural and religious influences from neighboring Asian states, produced a unique culture of its own. Ruth Benedict asserted in her now-discredited study "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword," that Japan has a shame culture (external reference standard) rather than the guilt culture (internal reference standard) that is more familiar in the West.

--Jerzy(t) 21:36, 2004 Apr 12 (UTC)

Japanese: "a humorless people"???

Is it true that the Japanese are generally considered to be humorless? I could see it being true at some point in the distant past, but surely the overseas success of anime and programs like Takeshi's Castle has eliminated this ridiculous stereotype? -- Tlotoxl 03:40, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

But few, if any Japanese comedians are known outside Japan, are they? List of Japanese people has no entries for "Comedian" and they are grouped under "Entrepreneurs" and "Other Notables". Anime and Takeshi's Castle give only nameless individuals and that's not really same. Revth 03:19, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If you just watch the TV in Japan, you will find a number of comedians. Besides, how could you claim Japanese are hurmorless based on the a number of known comedians outside Japan? I am much more interested in how this myth has developed. -- Taku 05:40, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)

Pop Culture as Export

Surely it is worth noting that Japanese pop culture items, such as anime, manga, video games, etc., are incredibly popular exports, probably second only to the United States as far as international reach. Frankly, I've heard there's people who believe it to be a devious practice. --Feitclub 06:01, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

The Presentation Of Kanji

Since kanji are the culture of Japan this article needs to present a lot of kanji, right up front. And it certainly needs to be written by people who know kanji as well as en. One wouldn't read a fiber optics article or gas chromatography article by a non-science person. And one wouldn't read a Shakespeare article that included no mention of the word Hamlet. That long list of items is very good and needs to be expanded. But seriously, the kanji is where this starts. I would recommend spending a lot of time on AOL Japan or Chinese Yahoo. Its a more or less gigantic project. McDogm--64.12.116.69 14:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how just sticking a bunch of kanji in this article would improve it. And Chinese Yahoo is, well, Chinese. Japan is not China. — Gwalla | Talk 01:22, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the thing. Kanji aren't easily stickable. The article of course is perfectly good. I don't really know how to start with the kanji.

In re: Chinese Yahoo questions, it might just be a matter of looking at Europe in comparison. I don't really know how to answer that but something along the lines of thinking of the alphabet as a unifier since it was first produced, and its history and its similarities and dissimilarities between different peoples. I usually benefit by thinking of Americans as predominantly 'European-American' in order to get perspective, but that is a relatively new idea that isn't really as mainstream as it ought to be. I think that eventually the ability will develop to integrate kanji into this article and articles like it. There is a theory that kanji are read by a different part of the brain, the face perception center, but that is another deep thought that might be a tad difficult to broach into a culture article. Change will happen gradually vis a vis culture and pop culture pages. There is definitely no need to rush kanji into articles because one should have the same poise and definitivity that one has with initial basic en portions of articles. McDogm--172.141.51.243 05:52, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that there already is a kanji article, and most detail on the subject should go there. Culture of Japan is more or less an overview. Also, just out of curiosity, if you've got a username, why aren't you logging in? — Gwalla | Talk 07:13, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I have found a page that could help: CJK, which stands for China Japan Korea. It is a page about fonts and it is a little technical but the basic idea might be sound vis a vis negotiating the cultural politics involved; I am positive that the actual governments involved such as MITI et al have a grand project, on the scale of Wiki, for associating the different character sets together in a new way. And, I have a cookie switch problem of some sort and at times I log out after I log in. Thanks for asking.McDogm--McDogm 08:17, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

That project is called Unicode. We already have an article (actually, several articles) on it. — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

In re the overview nature of this article, the lists of material involved are going to get down to a quite detailed level someday. Shrimp Chips, the names of the Sailor Moon girls, and all the various individual cultural items of Japan are really good for talking about kanji, especially insofar as kanji are actually essential for explaining how and why they are famous. Its the overview percolating down to interesting descriptions of items in lists within the overview that is the basic structural parameter here; this site will connect directly to all the items in the list. I think that organizational concept is the very idea that got me to start writing here: The direct connection between Culture of Japan and the various incredibly interesting items on various lists. It is 'Culture of Japan' as a portal. I really think this is an important article.McDogm--McDogm 08:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

It is an important article. But there is no reason to get into that level of detail. If people started, say, adding the names of their favorite anime characters here, I'd revert the changes. We have articles on individual topics for a reason. — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Umm, I'm not really actually campaigning for anything here; I just thought it was a nice suggestion and the offer of some support for the gradual kanjification of this and other articles. It really is an overview at this point and using kanji is difficult to do and maintain any sort of Wiki standard at the same time. Sorry if you thought I was trying to be politically heavy in my suggestion. Kanji/Nihongo-English issues are difficult politically. Again, I'm not trying to affect the editorial content at this page at all. Sorry again if you were worried that I was.McDogm--McDogm 08:36, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I didn't think you were being political, but your suggestion didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Again Umm, I am relatively new to Wikipedia and I am trying to find my way to pages that I can help with. I think this one was on the Community Portal and I used the opportunity to share something about my knowlege of Asia. I hope I didn't interrupt. Kanji Dozo!! Gambatte!! Thanks for reading.McDogm--McDogm 08:40, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I've started compiling lists of pop culture items in the article.McDogm--McDogm 03:42, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Please put those in the appropriate articles. The summaries for each section really shouldn't be much more comprehensive than the introductory paragraphs in the more specific articles. — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikiproject Traditional Medicine

Please help support wikiproject traditional medicine, as currently there is no page for traditional Japanese medicine to differentiate it from Kampo. With your help wikiproject medicine will create a detailed pharmacopoeia of traditional Japanese medicines unique to Japan to promote anthropological education of the worlds many traditional medical views. Any information on indigenous animals plants and minerals used in medicine woulod be greatly appreciated. Our goal is to have this topic considered a social science and no longer a pseudo science, wikipedia deserves a multi-cultural perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CensoredScribe (talk • contribs) 00:04, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Shingeki

What about Shingeki? It's not mentioned in the section theatre at all. Does anybody know more about it? Does it deserve a separate article? Ben ^T/_C 13:20, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Request More Information on Cultural Psychology/Nemawashi Concept

I am very interested in this article's mention of the Japanese concept of Nemawashi; I am interested in more information regarding Japanese cultural psychology and social mores. For example, since Japanese culture (and this is a guess on my part, please correct me if I am wrong) generally emphasizes group action rather than individual action, will a Japanese man or woman typically feel stress when entering a situation requiring a great deal of personal initiative or decision-making? Has there been any research done into the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Nemawashi concept? Thank you very much for your time. -- Brasswatchman August 13, 2005. 7:55 PM EST.

Japanese culture is in reality more individualistic and liberal than most other human cultures. All those "Japanese collectivism" and "interdependence" stereotypes are just nonsense with no evidence to back them up.(Takano & Osaka, 1999; 2008; 2018) Within cultural psychology, many if not most studies from the "East-West comparison" paradigm are based on Markus & Kitayama's theory of "independent versus interdependent self-construals". That theory is wrong. It was known for decades that there were major problems with the construct of "independent versus interdependent self-construals" at the individual level of analysis (Matsumoto, 1999), but there was no sufficient data to test the construct validity (or lack of it) at the level of societies. After the major international study published in 2016 on this topic (Vignoles, 2016), it is beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no such thing as an independent versus interdependent self-construal axis neither at the individual level nor at the level of societies. Of course, it is likely that Markus & Kitayama and some of their dedicated fans will go on and deny or downplay all evidence because they have no other choice because they based most of their career on the supposed truth of the "independence versus interdependence" hypothesis. Nevertheless, that hypothesis has been effectively debunked. Since most "East-West" comparison studies assume the coherence of the "independence versus interdependence" continuum, there are major problems ahead for cultural psychology.

For those who seek to study a major world culture that is collectivistic or very different from those of Europe or America, please look at a graph with cultural distance scores and choose some culture that is very different from Europe and America. The most different cultures from the United States are in the Middle East and North Africa region (Muthukrishna et al., 2018). Japan is relatively similar to European cultures and to a certain degree (although not as much as with Europe) with the culture of the United States.

References:

Matsumoto, D. (1999). Culture and self: An empirical assessment of Markus and Kitayama’s theory of independent and interdependent self‐construals. Asian Journal of Social Psychology, 2(3), 289-310.

Muthukrishna, M., Bell, A. V., Henrich, J., Curtin, C. M., Gedranovich, A., McInerney, J., & Thue, B. (2018). Beyond WEIRD psychology: measuring and mapping scales of cultural and psychological distance. Available at SSRN 3259613.

Takano, Y., & Osaka, E. (1999). An unsupported common view: Comparing Japan and the US on individualism/collectivism. Asian Journal of Social Psychology, 2(3), 311-341.

Takano, Y., & Sogon, S. (2008). Are Japanese more collectivistic than Americans? Examining conformity in in-groups and the reference-group effect. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology, 39(3), 237-250.

Takano, Y., & Osaka, E. (2018). Comparing Japan and the United States on individualism/collectivism: A follow‐up review. Asian Journal of Social Psychology, 21(4), 301-316.

Vignoles, V. L., Owe, E., Becker, M., Smith, P. B., Easterbrook, M. J., Brown, R., ... & Lay, S. (2016). Beyond the ‘east–west’dichotomy: Global variation in cultural models of selfhood. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 145(8), 966.

TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 18:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Merge Geinokai?

Someone put the merge suggestion up but didn't explain why, so I'm starting the discussion. Please share your thoughts. --nihon 01:04, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

If it needs to be merged, tarento is a more obvious place to merge it to. --DannyWilde 04:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree that tarento is a more appropriate place for it. --nihon 06:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

The little summary that this article has is longer that the main article for the subject. That makes very little sense. The "Main Article" is only one sentence long. That seems like a valid reason to merge. 69.241.173.179 03:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Mess

This article is a mess of turgidly written trivia. I suggest nominating it for collaboration to try to produce something better. --DannyWilde 08:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

May Sick..?

I removed this, no idea what it is, Google produces a mere 500 results. who put this in? - Zero1328 13:06, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

For your information, Japanese Wikipedia has an entry ja:五月病 (Gogatsubyō, lit. 'May sick') and has more than 100,000 google hits. --Kusunose 15:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

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Hello. I am the guy who recently hacked this page. Please put about rugby being part of Japan, and I won't hack—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.71 (talk • contribs) .

You hacked the page? You clicked the edit button, idiot.--THobern 14:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by THobern (talk • contribs).

Kawaii merge

The article Kawaii has some issues. For those who don't know, "kawaii" is simply a Japanese adjective meaning "cute". The article therefore is essentially a dictionary definition and accumulation of trivia which is turning into original research. Quite frankly it reeks of otaku fancruft. I was about to AfD it, then I thought maybe it can be salvaged. After all, it is undisputed that the Japanese have an obsession with cuteness, and it merits mention somewhere. The Crow 16:04, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

• Couldn't agree more. Kawaii isn't a lifestyle or fashion (or as someone wrote, a way of standing(??), so the whole article seems nothing more than an elongated dictionary definition. Some trivia can probably be used elsewhere, but the majority of it pretty worthless. Barryvalder 01:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I oppose the move. Any AfD will be greeted with great displeasure and perhaps even hostility.

Article will not be salvaged as it will stay where it is as after all it is an article matured beyond being a stub. All those merges will create a 32kb article hence will have to be broken apart again. That is exactly why Kawaii exists.

Article is not "original research" as hello kitty's fame is well known for example.

Kawaii does not simply mean "cute". Any reasoning starting with "this is cruft" requries no further discussion. Please delete norse mythology and religion articles first which are all cruft to me.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Cool Cat's tone may be a little militant for my taste, but I agree that Kawaii is a standalone concept that is notable in and of itself. In a wired article, the author states that "The Japanese word for cute is kawaii. You often hear it spoken alone, a sentence and a sentiment unto itself.". There are many websites and books devoted to the concept of kawaii, vouching for its independent notability. I do agree that the kawaii article has far too many pictures though. --DDG 19:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

It has 3 pictures... :P. Wikipedia is not b&w :). And no I am not millitant. I just dont like the deletionist attiudes with primary reasoning "cruft"... --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

That's fine. But anyone is free to nominate an article for merging or vfd- you have to trust that notable topics will be recognized as such by the community as a whole. Often times that people suggest merges or renames because they are unfamiliar with niche topics or the context provided by the article confuses them. I know I've certainly mistakenly nominated a few articles for renaming/moving/merging. Assume Good Faith, and there's no need to meet them with "displeasure or hostility". Cheers. --DDG 19:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes but the nominator shouldnt remove information from the article like this: [1].

I do not like bad faith discussions when one side delcares "article is cruft" which is rude to everyone contributing to the article and enrages people (such as myself).

The point is one mans cruft is anothers art. Mona Lisa is cruft right? Try telling that to the artist ;)

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:54, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The passage you're referring to was questioned by another editor on Talk:Kawaii, and no one responded in the passage's defense for 4 days. I hardly fault Crow for seeing that as a tacit consensus for removal; the adoption of "kawaii" as a general loanword is certainly debateable. By calling the discussion "bad faith", I believe you are circumventing the possibility of "assuming good faith". There is no need to be "enraged" by any of this. Discussions like this are a vital part of Wikipedia, and are how consensus is reached. --DDG 19:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I can watch the talk page of every article care about. That would mean I look over thousands of talk pages.

You don't remove peices from the article (spesificaly what links kawaii craze to the west) and then debate its notability. That was bad on crows part.

I am not suggesting the "nominator is evil". I do not like the deletionist attitude. On topics one is not familiar one should not be making edits removing material. People should not edit with deadlines. Give 4 days and delete sections at whim is not nice.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:11, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

• user:DannyWilde was blocked indefinately for "harrasment and vandalsim" indefinately. Not all comments on talk pages are with the intention of creating a better encyclopedia. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Cool Cat on this one. The article is fine as it is, it doesn't need to be merged or deleted or redirected. Of course this is my opinion, but if an AfD (not VfD) came around I would vote to keep the article. — FireFox • T • 19:50, 2 February 2006

I just want to mention something here... first, the spurious throwing around of "deletionist" is silly on its face since I proposed a merge and not a deletion. Second, I didn't delete an entire article, I deleted a one-sentence section where a piece of celebrity trivia was (is being) used to make a sweeping novel judgement on a linguistic matter. Further, what if I do consider it "cruft"? We are entitled to opinions. I stated valid reasons and also shared a matter of opinion. Lastly, if an editor cannot handle challenges to a beloved subject without becoming "enraged", I question whether that kind of person is really even suitable to edit an encyclopedia. Clearly the priority of such a person lies in using Wikipedia to support/document/promote their hobby culture. I do recognize that such people are present here in large numbers, likely have much more free time than I do, and thus I will not swim upstream on this matter. The Crow 23:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

You are not entitled to restructuring article based on you views (I dont like it merge/I think its cruft hence merge) with the primary argument "this is cruft" aka "not article worthy" you will only infuriate people writing it. I am more that sutible to edit wikipedia and no I do not have that much free time. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I've already pointed out numerous times that my main objection is that the kawaii article is a dictionary definition, and that the defense of it is original research in trying to portray "kawaii" as having a greater meaning and significance than it actually possesses. You and I may differ in our personal taste, but dicdefs and original research are both objectively in violation of Wikipedia norms for editorial content. The Crow 21:07, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Kawaii is able to and should stand on its own. I also think that anyone who gets "enraged" over another editors opinion is taking things far too personally. If that happens, the "enraged" editor likely needs to take a break. --nihon 02:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• I stand with The Crow on this one. While kawaii is deserving of a mention within the Culture of Japan, I really don't believe it any stronger a concept than that. Cuteness isn't something which the whole of Japan buys into by any means, and that alone makes it questionable to have a dedicated article. Something telling is that the Japanese article on the same topic is merely a description of what the word means and when people use it. The use of such sentences as "The two largest manufacturers of Kawaii character merchandise are Sanrio (manufacturers of "Hello Kitty") and San-X" implies that kawaii is a concept more than a mere adjective. For a start, that's a clear value judgement as many Japanese people don't think Kitty is even remotely cute. As for being a concept rather than a adjective, it's not, and it seems like it's the meaning which people are giving it themselves which is being reported on this article. Barryvalder 11:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

  Cuteness is something parts of Japanese economy revolves around. If I get this correctly, are you suggesting many japaneese people buy "Hello Kitty" merchendise etc for a reason other than its cuteness? What people views as cute defers with taste. Cute is "Kawaii" as article explains is a concept. Also if someting is worthy to appear on wikipedia, it is worth enough to have its own article. Your argument is hence flawed. Merges happen if there are lots of tiny articles that can be unified in one article in a reasonable manner. Neither this article (Culture of Japan) or other one (Kawaii) are stubs. Both are rather decent in size. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I had a little trouble deciphering your response, and also your interpretation of what I wrote. I'm not attempting to explain why people buy Kitty mechandise, I'm explaining that while the adjective kawaii may be used described to describe Kitty, it doesn't mean that Kitty Is Cute. Kitty has a red bow. She doesn't have a cute bow. You might think it's cute, but I might not. The fact of the matter is, cuteness is subjective. It's a value judgement. What is suggested by the article is that kawaii is a specific style of clothing, a specific type of personality or a specific type of handwriting. It isn't. Kawaii is an adjective which can be used to describe any style of fashion, any any type of personality or any style of handwriting. Regardless of if you agree or not, I wouldn't be wrong if said Prime Minister Koizumi was kawaii (I've heard it said!). The word is not a stand-alone concept. It's an subjective adjective, and as such the entire article's existence in Wikipedia is flawed. Japan's facination with things considered by many to be cute is worthy of a mention in the Culture of Japan. The word's definition should be part of the Wiktionary. You also wrote "...if someting is worthy to appear on wikipedia, it is worth enough to have its own article" but then go on to explain when and how merges happen; something which, by your own logic, shouldn't actually happen. Please stop me if my use of logic is confusing you.Barryvalder 10:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

My #1 main objection as to why the article shouldn't stand on its own is that it is a dictionary definition of the word "cute". Kawaii is the Japanese word for "cute" or "adorable". The article is fluffed in size, owing roughly a third of the content to definition, etymology, and usage (standard stuff for a dictionary definition). There's then some content listing things in Japan that are cute, which aren't terribly different from cuteness found in other cultures. Large eyes? Pink frilly clothes? Loopy girlish handwriting? Cutesy stuffed animals? All found in Japan; but none specific to Japan. And then the author claims that "Kawaii" is becoming an English loanword, hanging it all on a quote from a Gwen Stefani video. Yes, the fascination with cuteness in Japan is notable, but a fluffed-up dictionary definition of the word "cute" and an accumulation of trivia is not the way to represent it. The Crow 17:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

If you do not explain the meaning of the word you can't begin to explain the concept (Kawaii does not litteraly translate to Cute and the history of the word is relevant to this concept). You are basicaly suggesting there is too much information. If you think representation of the article is flawed go ahead and expand it "properly". Deleting/censoring sections is definately not better. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

If kawaii doesn't literally translate as cute, please enlighten us to what it's actual literal translation is. Having just checked two different dictionary definitions, I've come back with such English adjectives as "pretty/cute/lovely/charming/dear/darling/." Is it something other than any of these? Barryvalder 11:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I think your method is flawed... If you look up a word in a dictionary, of course you will get a dictionary definition. Kawaii does not literally translate as "cute" because the word has a greater weight in Japanese culture than that. Many people here are arguing that the term should not have an article as it is subjective. I find two problems with this:

1. The point made by the mentioning of the Time Asia and Wired articles is that "kawaii" is not just a subjective term, there is a universal style known as "kawaii" (the earmarks of which are specific to certain genres). Whether or not you find anime cartoon characters with big-eyes cute, the movement is described as "kawaii". Whether or not you find frill and mismatched socks charming, it is described by fashion designers universally as part of a "kawaii" style.
2. Wikipedia has plenty of articles on concepts/topics that are subjective by nature. Check out cool (aesthetic) or even Cuteness.

However, a lot of the same points are being hashed over and over, and extensive hyperbole and ridiculous analogies are being made on both sides. If you are convinced that the Kawaii article is unencylopedic by its very nature and incapable of being more than a dictionary definition, you should nominate it for deletion or put up an official poll for the merger. --DDG 22:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

That there is a univeral style called kawaii is false, plain and simple. There isn't. I have never seen a manga store in Japan with a section entitled 'kawaii'. Do you know why? Becuase no such genre exists. I have never seen a section in a clothes store in Japan called 'kawaii'. Do you know why? Becuase no such section exists. I could go on. I doubt I can make this any clearer, but there is NO UNIVERSAL STYLE CALLED KAWAII. It simply does not exist. How fashion designers desceribe their clothes is up to them, but there is no fashion in Japan called kawaii. Please explain exactly what special weight kawaii holds in Japanese culture becuase I'm sruggling with such vague responses as those given. By was of some original research I will take a sraw poll of the next ten people I speak to today and ask them what kawaii means and if it has any special meaning or great weight to them as Japanese people.
Whatever information I come back with will, of course, as original research, be pretty worthless for this article, but then it the lack of evidence to support the view that there is a defined, specific movemevnt in Japanese fashion / animation / manga etc called kawaii which helps make this article pretty worthless beyond a dictionary definition. I agree the discussion is going round and round in circles, so the article will have to put up to the vote. Barryvalder 23:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Universal fashion is called uniforms :). So ya it cant exist. But fasion with primary intention of "Kawaii-ness" is what we are trying to emphacise I think. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

ethics in Japan

This would be a welcome section. Chris 01:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Cultural Essentialism

This is a terrible article at present. To start off by referencing such an outdated and archaic work as Ruth Benedict's "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" is shocking. This article needs a thorough reworking to remove the racism embedded in such depictions that seek to essentialize Japanese culture as the "other" against which western society is to be measured. Despite the strength of critiques by such scholars as Edward Said, in his book "Orientalism," the fact that such articles as this, which contribute to an outdated Nihonjinron, or theory of Japanese uniqueness, is ridiculous. The fact that such depictions continue to persist says more about the contributors' fetishism than anything meaningful about Japanese history and culture.

You are right. Most beliefs about Japanese values and norms, such as "Japanese collectivism" or "Japanese interdependence" are just nonsense. I will improve this article until it reflects an accurate perspective about Japanese culture seen from a global perspective, using only high-quality research as sources. I have written about general cultural values such as the emancipative and secular axes of values as well as self-construals as measured by an innovative model with 7 factors, which has impeccable statistical properties (Vignoles et al., 2016). I will continue to improve the article by adding reliable information about general cultural features as revealed by quantitative cultural dimensions models (Beugelsdijk, 2018; Schwartz, 2011; Minkov, 2018) as well as information about more specific topics such as political culture, social axioms, child education (Minkov, 2018), gender roles as well as many categories of social norms. TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 18:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

References:

Beugelsdijk, S., & Welzel, C. (2018). Dimensions and dynamics of national culture: Synthesizing Hofstede with Inglehart. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology, 49(10), 1469-1505.

Schwartz, S. H. (2011). Values: Cultural and individual. In F. J. R. van de Vijver, A. Chasiotis, & S. M. Breugelmans (Eds.), Fundamental questions in cross-cultural psychology (p. 463–493). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9780511974090.019

Minkov, M. (2018). A revision of Hofstede’s model of national culture: Old evidence and new data from 56 countries. Cross Cultural & Strategic Management.

Minkov, M., Bond, M. H., Dutt, P., Schachner, M., Morales, O., Sanchez, C., ... & Mudd, B. (2018). A reconsideration of Hofstede’s fifth dimension: New flexibility versus monumentalism data from 54 countries. Cross-Cultural Research, 52(3), 309-333.

Minkov, M., Dutt, P., Schachner, M., Jandosova, J., Khassenbekov, Y., Morales, O., ... & Mudd, B. (2018). What values and traits do parents teach to their children? New data from 54 countries. Comparative Sociology, 17(2), 221-252.

Vignoles, V. L., Owe, E., Becker, M., Smith, P. B., Easterbrook, M. J., Brown, R., ... & Lay, S. (2016). Beyond the ‘east–west’dichotomy: Global variation in cultural models of selfhood. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 145(8), 966.

Export vs. Insider cultures

A rather important distinction and illumination should be made regarding Japan's export culture versus their insider culture, aka tatemae (建前) versus honne (本音) respectively. 71.162.255.58 07:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Dragon Ball picture

There is a picture of Dragon Ball in this article, but it is not seen in the text of the article itself. Images should not be information on their own, but should rather illustrate the subject matter. Someone should probably write about Dragon Ball in the text if it is notable enough; otherwise, the picture doesn't really deserve to be up either. —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 16:24, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

very incomplete

Am I incorrect in feeling this is a very incomplete article? I see no sections on...

• Traditional art forms,
• Humour (beyond a cursory mention),
• Martial Arts, and
• Religion (!!!!!)

just to name a few giant areas. There's not much at all about cultural history either. From this article it more or less seems like Japan has no culture beyond its language and pop culture. Take a look at Russian culture for a random example of the kind of stuff I would think is standard in a culture article. I am by far not an expert on Japanese culture and really don't want to add too much, as I know I will make a lot of errors and have few sources to call on. However, I will see about sketching some very rough sections on these vital and hideously underrepresented sections of the Culture of Japan. I am not even sure how this article can warrant a B-class rating in its present state... the opening paragraph was a quote from a 61-year-old reactionary secondary ethnology, presented as though it was the authority on the subject of Japanese cultural value structures!!!

PS: why is there a section on "kawaii" and not a section on "religion"?! Yargh. I honestly don't see why there is a special section on "cute". It is stylish here, but not a fundamental part of the culture. Erk|Talk _{-- I like traffic lights --} 15:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

"Evolution of Japense Fashion" was also put forward by user:24.19.45.254 :-) Mr. Anonymous, it's generally kosher to add more info as a comment rather than edit another member's post. Erk|Talk _{-- I like traffic lights --} 04:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Kawaii

Why is this section here? The entire thing is characteristed with "seems to be" and cultural comparisons, and cuteness is hardly a central aspect of Japanese culture. There is a page about it already, all it needs is a "see also". Having a big paragraph about the comparitive Western otaku-central importance of Kawaii puts a lot of systemic bias into the article, and way too much weight on something that is not all that important to Japan. Erk|Talk _{-- I like traffic lights --} 03:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It really doesn't deserve that much focus in this page. A "see also" link, at most. — Gwalla | Talk 00:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Religion

Though I don't have any articles to back this up on hand, the religion section could really use some fleshing out. For example, most people in Japan don't care at all about religion, and are actually atheist. Additionally there is a wide generational gap concerning religion, but no mention of this in the article.

Japanese people

I am wondering if I can interest anyone who works with this page with helping to expand the summary of Japanese culture at Japanese people. It is currently so small that some of the sections suggested by the ethnic groups WikiProject are still hidden in comment tags. Any help that you can give would be appreciated. Dekimasu 21:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Clean up

How about this correction?

• Japanese literature

• Japanese pottery
  • Waka
  • Haiku

• Japanese Art
  • Emakimono
  • Lacquer
  • Nihonga
  • Ukiyo-e

• Japanese architecture
  • Japanese castle
  • Japanese garden
  • Japanese style room
  • Housing in Japan
  • Toilets in Japan

• Japanese cuisine
  • Sake
• Japanese tea ceremony

• Japanese cinema
  • Jidaigeki
  • Yakuza film
  • Tokusatsu (Godzilla series)

• Japanese clothing
  • Japanese school uniform
  • Hakama
  • Kimono
  • Yukata

• Japanese religion
  • Shinto
  • Japanese Buddhism
  • Japanese demons (Yōkai)
  • Japanese mythology
  • Japanese folklore
  • Festivals

• Japanese values
  • Bushidō
  • Nihonjinron
  • yamato damashii
  • Wabi-sabi
  • Zen

• Japanese Music
  • Japanese musical instruments
    • Shamisen
    • Taiko
    • Koto
  • J-pop (Japanese popular music)
  • Enka
  • Karaoke

• Japanese Customs
  • Arranged marriages in Japan
  • Japanese calendar
    • Japanese New Year
    • Holidays of Japan

• Japanese Theatre
  • Kabuki
  • Noh
  • Bunraku
  • Kyogen

• Japanese entertainment (Engei)
  • Manzai
  • Rakugo
  • Owarai
  • Kamishibai

• Japanese toy
  • Tamiya
  • Zoids

• Japanese handicrafts
  • Katana
  • Origami
  • Paper plane
  • Washi

• Japanese miniaturization culture
  • Netsuke
  • Bonsai

• Japanese pens and stationery

• Japanese pop culture
  • Anime
  • Manga
  • Video games, sometimes adapted from anime
  • Japanese idol

• Japanese subculture
  • Mecha
  • Bishōjo
  • Japanese Pornography
  • Otaku
  • Homosexuality in Japan(Shodo)
  • Cosplay
  • Japanese fashion
    • Gothic Lolita
    • Furisode
    • Loose socks

• Japanese dance
  • Japanese traditional dance (Buyo)
  • Para Para

• Japanese Martial Arts
  • Karate
  • Kendo
  • Aikido
  • Sumo
  • Judo
  • Kyudo

• Communications
  • Cell phone culture

• Tourism in Japan
  • Mount Fuji
  • Onsen (hot spring)
  • Rail transport in Japan
  • Transport in Japan
  • Shinkansen
  • World Heritage Sites in Japan

• Japanese names

Some of those seem rather specific for such a general overview. I mean, are Zoids really so important to Japanese culture that they should be a top-level link? Also, why are anime and manga not under entertainment? How is mecha a subculture? Also, according to the Guide to Layout links already present in the article should ideally not be repeated in the see also section. And if we link an overview (like Japanese cinema), we don't need to link more specific articles that it already covers (like Takusatsu)—people who want more detail can simply follow links further. — Gwalla | Talk 20:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

• • NOTE: Looks like vandalism throughout, fixed paragraphs near the very bottom, but soon after ran out of time (and energy, frankly). Once I reached an portion of the article where I couldn't determine it's correct meaning, I gave up. Thesoftbulletin82 (talk) 23:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• • NOTE: First paragraph vandalized. Text removed & notation inserted. I could not determine what information was removed. Ted 19:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Dealt with. (Also, moved Ted's message to bottom.) --barneca (talk) 19:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• • NOTE: Calligraphy paragraph vandalised. Fixed this via Undo on the History page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.30.183.153 (talk) 05:49, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

"eat food off a naked woman" ritual

Does anyone know what it is called? Where a naked woman lies on a table and have food cover her body for people to eat off with chopsticks? This is an authentic ritual because I have seen pictures of it and I have heard of it from Xposed, a television program in USA that exposes all kinds of wierd rituals around the world. I just dont remember what it is called. 16:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

it's called Nyotaimori. and you might want to know about Wakamezake too.

here is some links for you:

http://www.kornerson.com/media/qplay2.asp?m=200606/special-table.flv

http://umemiya.hp.infoseek.co.jp/mori.html

http://www.ax.misty.ne.jp/~land/column/nyotaimori/nyotaimori.htm

21:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)~~

Image edits

I changed the image Image:Geisha-fullheight.jpg in the clothing section back to Image:JimmyWales wearing Kimono.jpg. I think the previous picture is not appropriate for some reasons. First of all, they are not Geisha apprentices. Their kimono are rented furisode for sightseers and there is odd features such as eccentric colors and too much hairdressing items. For editorial respects, this image is vertically long.

On the other hand there's nothing strangeness in Jimbo Wales' picture (Strictly speaking, he sit too close to the alcove). In addition, you can see tatami, shoji and tokonoma, which are typical to Japanese traditional rooms(see washitsu). Other images, such as Image:Japanese woman in wedding kimono june 2004.jpg, are also acceptable but lacks features in the background.

And finally I'm bored with high popularities of Geisha or Maiko. Their cultural importances are not so big. We should add more casual and popular images.--Amagase 10:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that the majority of people that navega on wikipedia are not wikipedians and that if they are looking in this article about japan when they see that image the impresion they will they is that is “some white dude cosplaying” almost a joke of the subject the section is dealing,besides the suit that jimbo is using is not much visually apealling it doesnt have colors nor isnt disctintive to the eye like a kimono.there are tons of pictures of japanese clothing on commons

, much better than the jimbo one, so its no excuse that you dont like kimonos or the geisha girls, cause even if theyre not geishas,maikos or whatever,Jimbo isnt even japanese,so my opinion is that you take a look of those images on commons cause the jimbo one is not acceptable.--Andres rojas22 21:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Please calm down and take some time before writing down your replay. And don't add other images before this discussion be settled. You said that this kimono is too humble, but dou you know Zen or Wabi-sabi philosophy? These ideas heavily influenced all the aspects of the Japanese culture including clothing. Jimbo's clothes is called Nagagi(長着), whcich is used as the basical cloth of casual wears. I don't think this image is not apealling, in fact I regard this image as the best picture to depict the Japanese tradional clothes with appropriate properties. And you can see the quality of the picture is so good.

And you pointed out Jimb is not Japanese, but is it decisive flaw? I don't make judgments and want to know other users' opinions.

Under sensible rules, we should stop edits and keep the image before your first edit, but I removed the image. Let's discuss at ease. --Amagase 11:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

i dont know Zen or Wabi-sabi philosophy but neither does the reader, and there lies the problem, cause at least the geishas picture is universally recognized, its true that is somewhat of a pop icon and i know theyre not represantative of all japanese clothing but the image of jimbo will be confusing for the common man,(not many people outside o even inside wikipedia know who he is, and the pic would distract the reader from this article to look who jimbo wale is, probably thinking that he has something to do with the culture of japan), imagine an article about the culture of nigeria and sudenly you see a picture of a german, i mean thats the contrast effect that haves the picture.

I think that if you dont like the geishas picture or the yukata, we could put one of samurai in traditional clothe,not the armor,the one they used were there were in court.--Andres rojas22 12:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I retract my edits of Jimbo's image. Don't add other pictures in this section. I want you to know following things.

First, I'm so surprised that you don't know nothing about Japanese culture. In addition of absence of fundamental knowledges, both of image which you added are unsuitable, but you didn't notice at all. And I have to say that you are misunderstanding the Wikiepdia's philosophy. Wikipedia is not bulletin boards in which highschool students exchange their homeworks. It is the encyclopedia which is based on the scientific methodology. If you were, or are, a college student, you have learned that the methodology of science is composed of hypotheses from evidences and the peer review system. Do you have the knowledge or experiences to contribute this article? And can you respect other contributors who have better ability than you? Finally you say that I veto girls' images because of my preferences. It's just not correct.

These are rather blunt saying but I think you should change your attitude. --Amagase 12:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

“I'm bored with high popularities of Geisha or Maiko” you said it not me.If you have so good knowledge of japanese culture,you should be able to recognize a better picture than that.“the encyclopedia which is based on the scientific methodology” “Wikipedia is not bulletin boards in which highschool students exchange their homeworks” you got to be kiding,that image is the most ridiculous(in the context of this article) i've ever seen,jimbo wales cosplaying,if you put that image in the cosplay article it would be perfect but here its just like black and white,its completely out of tone--Andres rojas22 23:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Footnotes

In footnotes section is some writing about japanese footwear. Irrelevant?? --Hannu 15:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed. what was that? A bad joke? Oda Mari (talk) 18:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Vagabond21.jpg

Image:Vagabond21.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 11:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

unusual link

At the borrom of the page under "contemporary" it has a link to toilets in Japan. Is that supposed to be there?Emma Hordika (talk) 20:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Emma Hordika

Japanese Society

There is a book called "Japanese Society" by Nakane Chie (with an article to it). When I search for "Japanese Society" it redirects me to "Culture of Japan" - this should change to disamb. Kampy (talk) 19:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

redirect

There is a book called "Japanese Society" by Nakane Chie (with an article to it). When I search for "Japanese Society" it redirects me to "Culture of Japan" - this should change to disamb. Kampy (talk) 19:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Only if the book has an article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

New section(s)

I am wondering if or where on wiki some of the more unique differences between Japanese society and other societies would live? For example, there are small incidents, possibly not noteworthy, such as making a donation to the earthquake victims fund by leaving a plastic bag full of cash in a public toilet[2]. This is unusual from the perspective of other cultures. Or, on a broader scale, after the quake, there was no looting reported to police as far as I know, and workers at the office often never seem to go home. These sort of interesting aspects of Japanese culture might be interesting to document. What do you think ? Penyulap _talk 05:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Merge Korean

A new WP:Fork article has been created at Korean influence on Japanese Culture and should be merged here. DoubleBlue (Talk) 22:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

There is enough unique information to warrant separate page for it. Merging would just turn this page into a confusing mash of information.Globalscene (talk) 22:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I support a separate article. It's a distinct subtopic. My only concern is that it could be a magnet for POV-pushing (lots of nationalist sentiment on both sides), but that just means it needs vigilance. — Gwalla | Talk 17:47, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh please, that article is, after two months, still very one-sided - it is written in a fashion that makes it sound as if in the wee centuries only Japan and Paekche existed on this planet, and Paekche was the superior that invented everything, from the wheel to the supercomputer. Why is it, for instance, that the Horyu-ji article claims architectural influences from across Asia, and the Korean influence article makes it sound as if it was solely Paekche's project? There were Korean influences, of course, but they were not exclusive - China, at the very least, was a great influence as well, both directly and through Korea. The article should reflect the fact that Korea, in a similar fashion, learned a lot from China, and not make it sound as if Korea was the sole inventor of architecture, pottery, Buddhism and so on. If a reasonable stance like that cannot be achieved, I see no reason for the article to stay - let's be frank, right now, with the tone it takes, it's nothing more than Korean nationalist soap-boxing. And I'm not too optimistic, either. TomorrowTime (talk) 06:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

So cut it down. If it ends up a stub, so be it. — Gwalla | Talk 19:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture

I am concerned about this bit in the pop. culture section:

Although Japan is often thought of as a hard-working society with little time for pleasure, the Japanese seek entertainment wherever they can. It is common to see Japanese commuters riding the train to work, enjoying their favorite manga, or listening through earphones to the latest in popular music on portable music players.

Doesn't this happen everywhere? People read newspapers/magazines/listen to music on the train everywhere. Its nothing exclusive to Japan is it? --124.183.248.162 (talk) 08:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Garden's typical image

• Shiosai Rankings.--663highland (talk) 16:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I know Iwami Adachi museum is very popular and its garden is beautiful. But what I'm concerning about is the style of the garden. Your image, the spring garden, shows a very modern style and the garden is fairly a newly constructed one. I think an image of traditional old garden should be appropriate for the article because this is a general article. Oda Mari (talk) 16:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Adachi Museum's Garden is a garden constructed with traditional skills. Because a domestic and foreign evaluation is high, I think that it is a proper selection.

However, it is thought that the selection of Katsura Rikyu or Kenrokuen or Ritsurin Park is appropriate when I judge it from your "an image of traditional old garden should be appropriate" viewpoint.

It is thought that the selection of Rikugien is not at least appropriate. --663highland (talk) 17:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Reference: Day specified for "Meisho (Special Meisho)" cultural asset

• Katsura Rikyu - The Imperial Household Agency manages.
• Kenrokuen - 1922.03.08 (1985.03.30) (Japanese 3 noted garden)
• Ritsurin Park - 1922.03.08 (1953.03.31) (In the garden specified for "Special Meisho", it is the widest. )
• Kōraku-en - 1922.03.08 (1952.11.22) (Japanese 3 noted garden)
• Rikugien - 1940.08.30 (1953.03.31)

--663highland (talk) 18:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)18:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)18:18, 16 May 2009 (UTC)18:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for deletion of a statement regarding "difficult language"

I propose to delete a statement "It is regarded as "quite difficult for native English speakers" to learn as adults." in Japanese language section. The reasons are as follows;

• The original source of this statement is no longer available on the web. Language Learning Difficulty for English Speakers in WikiBook refers to the archive of original site:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071014005901/http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/november/learningExpectations.html

• Even in the Main article: Japanese language, there is no description related to this statement except for External links(Others).
• While this section should be a summary or introduction of the main article, this statement is far less important for this purpose.
• It is undesirable to make a rather negative expression to readers who are interested in Japanese Culture.

I would appreciate your opinion on this issue. Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you remove it? Oda Mari (talk) 10:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Because Kintetsubuffalo reverted the same modification by 81.132.255.55 at 16:32, 28 June 2009, I thought some consensus is needed. Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, I will wait a few days. After that, I will delete it. Thanks for your advice. Phoenix7777 (talk) 20:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd support that, it is one of the easier ones to learn. Penyulap _talk 04:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Host and hostess clubs

Why is this here? Why is something of such minute importance to Japanese culture as a whole have a prominent place on the Wikipedia page of said topic. Makes absolutely no sense and quite frankly, as a Japanese person, is rather offensive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.237.60 (talk) 17:25, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised that you say it's of minute importance to Japanese culture. But perhaps it depends partly on what you mean by "culture". It makes at least some sense to me and I'm puzzled by your declaration that it makes absolutely no sense. (Of course, the paragraph as it stands is very poor.) -- Hoary (talk) 16:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see:

Culture of Japan‎; 02:14 . . (-360) . . Sir Edgar (talk | contribs | block) (Deleted "Host and Hostess Clubs". Is this really an important part of Japanese culture? It can be re-included when there is more contemporary culture and entertainment content in article.)

Well, what do you take "culture" to mean, Sir? The article does tell us:

Although Japan is often thought of as a hard-working society with little time for leisure, the Japanese seek entertainment wherever they can. It is common to see Japanese commuters riding the train to work, enjoying their favorite manga, or listening through earphones to the latest in popular music on portable music players.

(Unsourced.) "Excuse me, Mr Japanese Commuter, I observe that you are listening through earphones to something emanating from a portable music player. Would it perchance be the latest in popular music?" Anyway, I suppose that paying to have women or waxed-hair gents pour you drinks would be just another example of seeking entertainment wherever one can. -- Hoary (talk) 03:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Expand the section of modern Japanese culture and entertainment, including nightlife, and then it can go back in. But just that part of Japanese nightlife included in the article seems a bit out of place.--Sir Edgar (talk) 03:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

How successful would a television commercial in japan be if it featured a husband surprising his wife in her dressing area on Valentine's Day with a small box of chocolates containing four candies? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.7.134 (talk) 05:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism redux

IP vandalism. I reverted all of it, I think. Could someone take a look-see? TreacherousWays (talk) 21:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Warning: out of date.

"...listening through earphones to the latest in popular music on portable music players." Really? In America, we call them iPods. (Even though they have only a 76% market share.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jldrei (talk • contribs) 03:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Not everyone in America mp3 players iPods, and I know that most people in Japan don't overgeneralize and call every music player an iPod. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.88.130.79 (talk) 02:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

More general view of "Culture"?

I came to this page hoping to read about modern Japanese customs, ideologies, ways of thinking, religions, expressions/idioms, common jobs, et cetera--basically a short overview of typical day-to-day life in Japan. However, it seems like this page is mostly focused on two extremes: the historical culture of Japan, and the pop culture of Japan. I think it might leave readers more confused than before they read the page, since there isn't much information on the typical modern culture in Japan. The lack of citations throughout the article is also concerning.

I'm very new to Wikipedia, so I'm not comfortable taking on a task of this magnitude by myself yet. Are there any other Wikipedians interested in this page who would be willing to work with me on an overhaul? My first impression of what needs to be done would be: trim the pop culture section; add sections on cultural topics such as "Humor," "Social class and work," "Family structure," "National holidays," "Religion," "Demographics," and other pieces of cultural information important to day-to-day life in Japan; expand the arts sections to include information of both modern and historical art forms; expand important sections such as "Cuisine," "Literature," and "Music" (which currently have minimal coverage); add information on traditions and ceremonies; add information on etiquette (also a unique and important part of Japanese culture); maybe add some information on the tourism industry; and, most importantly, ADD CITATIONS. Honestly, this is shockingly under-cited...

A culture page on Wikipedia that I was quite impressed with was Culture of the United States, which looks like it does a good job of balancing both historical and modern culture and gives a good overview of typical American life. We could use this article as a framework for revisions to this article.

Any takers? This would be a big project, but I think it could get done if we had enough dedicated Wikipedians working on it. Valentine Westing (I'm a newbie, please don't hurt me!) (talk) 15:29, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Valentine Westing, I'm not the most experienced Wikipedian either, but I'm happy to put my hand up to help out with this. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 15:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvements

I think that "Japanese culture" would be a more fitting title, since people of Japanese descent who do not live in Japan still practice many of the things mentioned in this article such as cuisine, calligraphy, etc.

Also, the painting section is a little short - brush techniques, for example, could be elaborated upon. In addition - and this may seem like a small thing but wording is important - "heyday" in the Ukiyo-e section doesn't seem to fit with the tone of a Wikipedia article; maybe another word could be used. Mikami, Takahiko (1985). Japanese brush painting: the art of Sumi painting. Newton Abbot: David & Charles. Bowie, Henry P (1952). On the laws of Japanese painting: an introduction to the study of the art of Japan. Dover Publications, New York. Varley, H. Paul (1984). Japanese Culture. University of Hawaii Press. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonchild07 (talk • contribs) 03:56, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

My last idea is to edit some sentences that tend to run on (e.g. 4 lines long) and/or display excessive grammar like commas when they are not required or reword sentences whose structures are unstable.

Dragonchild07 (talk) 18:03, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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"Strong Chinese and Iranian" cultural influence in Japan

This article was recently edited to describe strong "Chinese and Iranian" cultural influence on Japan, but as far as I know, there are relatively few historical links between Japanese and Iranian culture. Is the lead section of this article still accurate? Jarble (talk) 03:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

  I agree on that. Two of the sources cited were expired, and the other two only refering to Japan being cosmopolitan in the past. 
  There is a big difference between "one Persian living in Japan a thousand years ago" and "Japan and Iran having strong cultural ties". 
  It seems inaccurate to put Iranian and Chinese cultural influences on equal ground, especially when we compare with other Asian countries.
  I edited out that part, and included a reference to the Chinese writing system being introduced early on in Japan's history.144.127.1.1 (talk) 06:33, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

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New charts are illegible, are all of these necessary illustrations?

The new charts (with the grey backgrounds) are illegible, almost impossible to read. It's great that someone took the time to make them, but I am not sure that they are necessary or the best way of illustrating the vibrant culture of Japan. How about if one is used rather than so many? Or find other, more visually interesting ways to illustrate the concepts within them? Netherzone (talk) 14:07, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

@Netherzone: I reverted the edits as they were a confusing mess. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:00, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, it's much better now. Netherzone (talk) 17:02, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

I understand that the graphs I added were of rather poor visual quality and that my edits provided too many statistical details for an encyclopedic article. Also, many quotes were too lengthy. Nevertheless, I still think that part of the core information contained in the text I added is of general interest and deserves to be in this article. I will try to use fewer and more visually clear graphs as well as more concise text in order to present the information. Thank you for pointing out the need to improve the way I present the content. TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 19:58, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

These additions seem overly academic, and one wonders if they belong in this article on culture. The graphics were low quality and confusing. There were several new sections added: "Social Norms", and "Concepts of the Self", and "Cultural Values". All the citations in the Social Norms section were sourced to a single report (but were broken up to appear as separate inline citations); the Concepts of the Self section was entirely sourced to the work of Vivian Vignoles; the Cultural Values section was mostly sourced to Christian Welzel. That these sections were inserted in such prominent locations in the article overshadowing important sections on art, literature, music and cuisine disrupted the sense of balance in the article. This seems to indicate WP:UNDUE and perhaps POV pushing rather than WP:NPOV. Netherzone (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

This article in its current version has many details about various customs and traditions (which is a good thing), but lacks information about more abstract parts of culture such as values and norms. Those elements of culture are very important and should not be left out.

If you agree with me that this article needs more information about values and norms, the next question to which we should turn is about what kind of information it should be. I argue (1) that quantitative studies should be used, and (2) that Japanese culture should be presented from a global perspective, highlighting what makes it similar to other cultures and what makes it different from other cultures.

In support of (1), I outline two main reasons: a) Quantitative studies, especially if based on samples which are representative for the population and large enough to lower considerably the error bars around the estimates, have the advantages of helping us avoid cognitive biases such as hasty generalizations and confirmation bias; b) Quantitative studies describe cultural values and norms in a more accurate way since all human cultures have multiple priorities which are often in tension one with another and quantitative data is the best tool to represent the balance between those priorities as achieved in a certain culture.

The necessity of preferring studies which take a global comparative perspective is due to the fact that all cultural characterizations about something as abstract as values (and to a certain degree also norms, even if they are not as abstract as values) are either implicitly or explicitly comparative. Due to our common humanity, people all around the world have a similar set of evolved moral concerns. The question is not about the presence or absence of a value within a culture, but about how much is a certain value emphasized in a culture in comparison with other culture(s). This brings about the necessity of using an external reference standard every time we characterize the values of a certain culture. That reference standard may be another particular culture (for example, describing Japanese values by comparing and contrasting them with the values of Americans) or a general/global reference standard. Within the last decades, many quantitative studies involving Japanese culture have been conducted, some of which compared Japanese culture with another culture (the comparisons between Japan and the United States have been particularly popular) while others involved diverse samples of cultures from all around the world. I consider that studies that use the second kind of reference standard are more appropriate for this article. The first reason is that they are better at avoiding Americentrist bias and the second reason is that a global perspective is the most suitable for a global encyclopedia such as Wikipedia taking in consideration that English Wikipedia has many readers who are not Americans and who may be more interested about how Japanese culture compares with the culture of their home country than about how Japanese culture compares with American culture.

I will try to use more diverse sources in order to present a nuanced view of Japanese culture from the perspective of international cross-cultural research. Such information may seem overly academic, but I will try to present it in such a way as to be intelligible for most readers. I acknowledge that the old graphs were both messy and too many. There is a need to create fewer graphs that use less grey and are more legible. The problem of image quality after scaling may be solved by using the svg format instead of jpeg.

Regarding the position and length of the section which I want to add, I ask for your opinion regarding what length and position may be acceptable for the new section in order not to disrupt the overall balance of the article. --TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 05:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, going through the citations and references to this article, it seems unlikely that it is this article is Americentrist. Also our volunteer enWP editors come from all over the world. So I don't really agree that the article does not have a global perspective. I do question whether this thesis-like material belongs in this article about the culture of Japan given our readership. Perhaps it could be developed into its own article, that could be submitted to Articles for Creation. It's a pretty strait-forward process and might be worth giving it a try. Netherzone (talk)

The article is not Americentrist and I am not accusing of bias any editor who contributed to the current form of the article. The only problem I see with it is that this article lacks information about cultural values and norms. Americentrism was just mentioned in the context of comparing hypothetical ways in which such information may be presented. I said that if I would describe Japanese culture mainly using information from studies that contrast it with American culture either explicitly or implicitly (which are very numerous), then my piece of writing would be Americentrist. I thought that there may be editors who consider that I should focus more on such studies because they are very numerous. In this way, I tried to defend the global comparative approach in describing Japanese values and norms --TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 16:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't plan to introduce again my old edits into this article since I acknowledge that they focused too much on statistical details, used a few sources too many times and included hard to read graphs. I want to write a section about values and norms which will be very different from my former edits. I plan to write a smaller and more concise section in order to avoid overshadowing the sections about art, literature, music and cuisine, as I did last time. The sources will be more diverse and I will no longer use a single source many times. The style of writing will also be changed in order to be more clear and accessible to a general audience and to avoid sounding like a "thesis". If I add any graphs, they will be much fewer. The annoying grey fundal will no longer be used and the graphs will be in the svg rather than jpeg format. What is your opinion about having such a section in this article and where do you think it should be placed in order to respect the article's balance? You suggested starting a new article in which to place the content of my former edits, but I think it would be weird for Wikipedia to have an article about the Culture of Japan and another article about "Japanese culture in global comparative research" or something like that... --TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 16:52, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

You may want to wait a while to see what the consensus is. Since we are all volunteers here it sometimes takes time for other editors to weigh in. Netherzone (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree. There is no hurry.--TheCultureDemystifier (talk) 18:56, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Inference of "vagueness" from apparent arithmetic error

I removed this tag: *{* vague| 66.7 plus 69.0 is greater than 100|date=June 2021 *}*. It is standard that the total "religiosity" of Japan, measured by summing the percentages professing [what? hardly "adherence"] to various religions, comes to more than 100%. I can give another book reference if necessary. Overwhelmingly the approach to religion in Japan is very different from that in really "religious" countries, like the USA. Imaginatorium (talk) 06:23, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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