Talk:Cortana (Halo)

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External links modified

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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Cortana (Halo). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130228110539/http://tech.malaysia.msn.com/photoviewer.aspx?cp-documentid=250764311 to http://tech.malaysia.msn.com/photoviewer.aspx?cp-documentid=250764311
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121209080342/http://www.ugo.com/games/best-video-game-companions?page=2 to http://www.ugo.com/games/best-video-game-companions?page=2

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FAR

No offense intended, but I really think this article falls considerably short of FAC standards, and I'd argue it even falls short of GA standards as well. The reception section consists mainly of an embarrassing collection of listicles that say the exact same thing about her sex appeal. The second paragraph could be replaced with the single line 'Video game journalists have featured Cortana in numerous lists that rank female characters by their sex appeal.[Insert several sources]. There's a plethora of sources that can't be considered 'high-quality' no matter how low your standards are, and there's sources that don't even meet RS either. There's zero coverage from academic sources even though a quick search on google scholar finds a plethora to choose from. The reception section actually starts with the character receiving a 'sexy makeover' for Halo 3. Shouldn't it begin with her reception from the first game? And that's just some of the issues with just the reception section. Based on my experience trying to get Jill Valentine to FAC, I know that it would take months of work to bring this article to FA standards. I'd argue the article currently fails FA standards on FA criteria 1a, 1b and 1c. I intend to nominate it for FAR, though as per the guidelines thought I'd discuss the issues here first. Freikorp (talk) 09:42, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm interested in improving the article, but your own article failing to get through FA has jack to do with this one, so leave that baggage at the door. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

The only reason I'm aware this article doesn't meet the current standards for FAC is that every major issue raised at the JV FAC can also be found here. The whole experience has made me a better editor. If a discussion continues regarding ways to improve this article I was planning on highlighting things that were brought up there as I thought that would be helpful. Sarastro1 said JV received the most in-depth FAC in recent history, and possibly of all time, and that accordingly the standards for articles on video-game characters had been raised. I think it would be a wasted resource if we didn't examine some of the issues that were raised there, but if you have a problem with that we just ignore that whole process and focus solely on what other reviewers point out for the time being.

I posted a notification regarding this at Project Video Games. The two people who have responded there so far both agree this article does not meet featured standards. Freikorp (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

If there's no objections I'll list this at FAR in a couple days time. Freikorp (talk) 12:09, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm pleased to see some improvements made to the article, however, I'm not convinced one person can fix all the issues in a reasonable time frame. As per no objections, I've listed this at FAR. My motivation here is to form a consensus on what the article needs to retain its featured status; I'd much prefer to see the article improved than demoted. Freikorp (talk) 06:45, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 03:23, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

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Cortana (Halo) → Cortana (character) – The "Halo" disambiguation is not needed when there is no other character named Cortana. It is overly specific. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 22:12, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

• Support per nom and WP:NCVGDAB. Paintspot Infez (talk) 23:14, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

• Shoot, never mind. Neutral. I misread the rules of NCVGDAB. Paintspot Infez (talk) 18:22, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• Emphatic oppose @Paintspot: is misreading WP:NCVGDAB. It states "7. For characters: Disambiguate by appending the series or individual game title in parentheses after the character's name". (character) is ONLY used if the name of the character is also the name of the series. Not the case here. --Netoholic @ 05:45, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose WP:NCVGDAB calls on us to do the opposite than the nominator is proposing.--64.229.165.48 (talk) 05:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose @Zxcvbnm: surely there's a problem that some Windows users will conceive Cortana's female voice, like Siri, as a VR "character". It may not be (character) according to Wikipedians, but Wikipedians are not every human being. Plus (Halo) is preferred by WP:NCVGDAB as Netoholic notes. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:35, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per NCVGDAB. Microsoft's AI personality Cortana can be reasonably construed as a "character" by he average reader. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 17:31, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose; a disambiguation that leads to a new ambiguity is a failure.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:03, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cortana (Halo)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ed! (talk · contribs) 21:53, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Will give this one a look. —Ed!^(talk) 21:53, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria) (see here for this contributor's history of GA reviews)

1. It is reasonably well written:

   Not Yet

   Description

   • Recommend pulling the "Character design" graphs and putting them first here, in order to establish how the character was created. Then you can go into the "description" parts where her in-universe and in-game roles are explained.
   • "Cortana is classified as a "smart" AI, meaning that her creative matrix is allowed to expand, in contrast to the limited matrix of other "dumb" AI characters in the stories." -- Probably unnecessary detail.
   • The second graph of the section feels a bit out of place - the rest of this section is sort of told in an in-universe lens, but this graph does a better job of explaining what the user experiences in the game. Perhaps it would be good to move this to a new sub section within description, "In the Games" which explains what role she plays (essentially as a guide for the player though most levels, helping solve puzzles and providing advice to help the player complete levels.) You can move the details from Frank O'Connor to this graph.
   • Also probably helpful in this graph to explain that she is on a chip inside Master Chief's armor so someone not familiar with the game understands how that works.

   Appearances

   • I like the way Master Chief's article handles the "Appearances" section, and suggest this do the same thing, how her backstory is mostly given in the books and then a graph each on her major activities in the games. This allows a biographical look at the fictional character while also helping the reader understand her development a bit.
   • There's a need for better explanation of some of the fictional elements here. A reader will be confused without better explanations of Alpha Halo and Delta Halo, what the Covenant is, the Forerunners, the Created, Noble Team and the UNSC. Just some very basic descriptions will do, but yes, the article has to transition in and out of the fictional elements a bit more seamlessly. The article as is goes a bit too far in assuming familiarity with the in-game universe.

   Character design:

   • Fix: "Cortana's original The character model's face was based on ..."

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable:

   Not Yet

   • The entire "appearances" section needs references, again note the Master Chief article, an FA.
   • Ref 50 is a bare URL and needs formatting.

3. It is broad in its coverage:

   Not Yet

   • "Promotion" should include more media uses, including action figures for Halo 4, Funko, etc. This character along with Master Chief are two of the main symbols of the very popular series to break into the popular culture so there should be a more comprehensive list of the mentions here.
   • Any other characters in other fictions that she inspired?
   • Any academic analysis of the character?

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy:

   There are a good variety of sources.

5. It is stable:

   No problems there I'm seeing at the moment.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate:

   Two images shown. Any chance to use images of previous sketches of the character?

7. Other:

   Dab links, dup links and external links show no problems at the moment. Copyvio tool returns red mainly because it's picking up a fan wiki that probably copied from WP.

On Hold Pending some improvements. A bit more work needed on this one, I think. —Ed!^(talk) 22:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Hey Ed, thanks for the review. I've taken a stab at a bunch of the above, and will continue. Some comments on the feedback, however: my concern with moving the character design bits to before the description and appearances section is this renders a lot of the context around her story unclear. In the character design section we're talking about her descent into rampancy and her role in the story in Halo 4 and Halo 5, for example, which doesn't really work without repeating plot points outside of (and before) the appearances section (I did move the O'Connor quote further down as that was the only commentary on her description from an outside source.) --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 21:08, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Understood, but the problem as it stands is it sort of tries to get into the character from both the real world and an in-universe perspective at the same time which makes it confusing. Articles that start with character conception, as I have seen them, do a better job setting things up from the start – building the real world story first, then going into the in-universe information later. That kind of idea is helpful in an article like this because there's a lot you have to explain on the base about her (how she appears, the lifespan, the in-universe creation and personality quirks) so trying to have that setup in the same place as the character's RW creation story makes it jumpy. MC's page does it well but there are others too – Mario and Ron Swanson offer other ideas for how to set this up. —Ed!^(talk) 00:21, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Ron Swanson builds its structure pretty close to how this article does, starting with a 'background' section (which seems crazy long to me personally) and appearances before covering development. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 22:48, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

@Ed!: Hey, just checking in. I believe I've addressed all of the above comments except the ordering of sections. There's not really much scholarly analysis of Cortana that I would say is useful directly to the character rather than tangentially; there's also not a ton of merchandise for her, which is included in a new ref I mentioned. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 19:00, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

OK. Taking a look and noting the extensive additions to the piece in the past month, I think my concerns are largely addressed. The format of the article I'd think of as a writer's choice, and since the material is still covered appropriately I don't see it as running afoul of the GA criteria. Based on this, going to Pass the GAN now. Thanks for the work! —Ed!^(talk) 03:56, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Change cover photo to Cortanas most recent appearance or most consistent one?

I think having the cover be Halo 5 Cortana is strange since it isnt her most recent appearance and isnt the most well known one either. I feel like Halo Infinite or Halo 2 Anniversary should be used. 2A00:23C7:743:8501:3149:C2D7:D9B1:B2D8 (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Her appearance in Infinite is substantially the same, and I wouldn't say her Halo 2 Anniversary look is particularly the most consistent appearance, either. I'm not personally opposed to changing it, but what is her most "well known" appearance is probably up to debate. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 20:25, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

the same issue also applies to the Arbiters wiki page which uses the Halo Wars arbiter which isnt the same character as Thel Vadam (Halo 2/3 Arbiter). I feel like Cortanas most consistent appearance is Halo 3 since that model was used three times (Halo CEA, Halo 3, Halo Reach) 2A00:23C7:743:8501:E138:FEA3:994B:59EB (talk) 20:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)