Talk:Buzz Aldrin/GA1
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Balon Greyjoy in topic GA Review
GA Review edit
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Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 03:47, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Looking forward to completing this review! Giving the article and the talk page a once-over shows it's already in pretty good shape! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 03:47, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I have begun adding comments. Please feel free to begin making changes! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 01:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Is it well written?
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Lead
- Include "Col, USAF Ret." after his birthday in the lead sentence
- Change "Command Pilot" to either "fighter pilot" or just "pilot." Command pilot is just a status in his flying career and a reflection of years of flying/total hours.
- Change the intro for "Commisioned in the United..." to something along the lines of "He commissioned in the US Air Force, and served as a jet fighter pilot..." You have a repetitive sentence structure with its previous sentence.
- Remove the part about "flight commander" and just say that he later served in the 22d Fighter Squadron. Flight commander is an administrative duty, and much less significant in terms of responsibility than its Army-equivalent of company commander. If you would like to leave it, it should at least read "a flight commander in the 22d Fighter Squadron," as there are multiple flights per squadron.
- "One of his first NASA missions was on Gemini 12" This doesn't really make sense, as it was his first flying mission, not one of his first. My guess is that you meant that he had previously non-flying responsibilites with NASA, but this isn't very clear.
- "he successfully proved that extravehicular activity (EVA) could be performed by astronauts, spending over 5 hours outside the craft, thus achieving the goals of the Gemini program and paving the way for the Apollo program" A couple things here: 1) Remove "successfully," as "proved" denotes the success of his mission 2) It's not clear how he proved the success of EVAs, as several had been accomplished on Gemini 4, 9, 10, and 11. Aldrin had the best EVAs by the metric of time and not getting tired, but this was also built on the previous EVAs by White, Cernan, Collins, and Gordon. 3) While EVAs were part of the Gemini program, I think it's a stretch to say that Aldrin was the one who achieved the goals of the entire program. 4) Since the entire Gemini program was to prepare for the Apollo program, it's redundant to include this in the leading paragraph after stating that the goals of the Gemini program had been met.
- Move "Dr. Rendezvous" back to the sentence about his doctoral thesis; also, I would put the name in quotes.
- Combine the facts about Gemini 12's rendezvous and docking with the sentence about the EVAs, and just have a one sentence summary of the mission.
- Combine the sentences about the religious ceremony and taking communion.
- Remove the part about rejection from the NASA astronaut program because of being a test pilot; I think that is too detailed for the lead paragraph. Instead, talk about how Aldrin became Commandant after leaving NASA, and retired from the Air Force in 1971.
- Inlcude more about his life post-NASA/USAF.
- Early life
- Can you expand on the career of Aldrin Sr. (his branch of service, his rank, years of service, his job, major accomplishments, etc.)? It's vague to say that he is a career military man. I can't point to specifics, but I remember from some astronaut's autobiographies that they described Aldrin Sr. as a powerful man who advocated heavily for Buzz. In First Man, Hansen discusses how Aldrin Jr.'s identity was heavily influenced by his father. It would be significant to discuss his career.
- I wouldn't have described him that way; he left the Regular Army before Buzz was born. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:50, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- I understand that he wasn't still active duty at the same time as Buzz, but I think his career deserves more of an explanation than "career military." Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:06, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Mike Collins' dad is what I would have described as a career military man. I have created an article on Gene Aldrin. Will update Buzz's article soon. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:34, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Nice job with the Gene Aldrin page. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 05:11, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Mike Collins' dad is what I would have described as a career military man. I have created an article on Gene Aldrin. Will update Buzz's article soon. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:34, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- I understand that he wasn't still active duty at the same time as Buzz, but I think his career deserves more of an explanation than "career military." Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:06, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- I wouldn't have described him that way; he left the Regular Army before Buzz was born. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:50, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Shorten the sentence about the nickname. Do you have the name for his sister? My take on it is "His sister (her name) misprounounced "brother" as "buzzer," earning him the nickname "Buzz," which became his legal first name in 1988.
- Remove the "During the childhood years," as the Boy Scout information is already in the "Early life" section, and it is assumed that his Boy Scout years were during childhood.
- I would reorder the information about his high school years, as the current version emphasizes his time on the football team, which is not a significant fact for the remainder of his life (as he didn't play beyond the high school level). My take is "Aldrin graudated from Montclair High School with an A grade point average, and was the starting center for the school's undefeated 1946 state champion team."
- Since the graduation date is in the previous sentence, change "After graduating in 1947," to "After high school," and change "went to" to "attended"
- Can you expand on the career of Aldrin Sr. (his branch of service, his rank, years of service, his job, major accomplishments, etc.)? It's vague to say that he is a career military man. I can't point to specifics, but I remember from some astronaut's autobiographies that they described Aldrin Sr. as a powerful man who advocated heavily for Buzz. In First Man, Hansen discusses how Aldrin Jr.'s identity was heavily influenced by his father. It would be significant to discuss his career.
- Military career
- My feedback for this entire section is to expand on it. There's a 6-year period between Aldrin's commissioning and beginning his doctorate that involves going to the Korean War, seving in Europe during the Cold War, and working as a gunnery instructor. It seems like there should be more information about this time period, such as major events, projects that Aldrin worked on, locates that he was deployed, etc.
- Personal preference for me is to include college experience, including service academies, in the early life section, and leave them separate from military career. However, I think this is a gray area.
- Combine the first two sentences about his career at West Point. Remove "good start," as that is subjective. Also, it needs to be clarified that USMA is referred to as West Point. I know it's fairly common knowledge, but it should be explained for the sake of unfamiliar readers.
"United States Military Academy at West Point, New York" should do the trick.
- Is there any more information about Aldrin's time at West Point, such as training events he went on, extracurriculars in which he was involved, etc.?
- The time period of Aldrin commissioning and then going to the Korean War should be greatly expanded upon. First, I would include a note explaining to readers that the Air Force Academy did not yet exist, which is why Aldrin went to an Army school and then commissioned in USAF. Second, explain Aldrin's training, such as the different locations that he attended pilot training. Also, include his initial squadron that he deployed with to the Korean peninsula.
- Remove "Mikoyan-Gurevich" as that is the company that produces the MiG-15, and not a relevant fact.
- "After the war" should have a more specific date/time, such as "After returning from Korea in 195X, Aldrin was assigned"
- Remove the sentence about Squadron Officer School, at is was (at the time) a 12 week course, and isn't some significant event in a given USAF officer's career.
- Is there anything more to add about Aldrin's service in Europe?
- "under the auspices of the Air Force Institute of Technology" reads awkwardly, and doesn't explain the connection between the two schools. My take is, "Through a program with the Air Force Institute of Technology, Aldrin attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology"
- While the Air Force is generally considered a high tech outfit, the "hump" of officers commissioned during World War II meant that in the 1950s its officers had a lower level of education on average than their counterparts in the Army and Navy. The crunch came with the 1957 Sputnik crisis. The Air Force decided that education was important, even at the expense of flying service, as technology became more complex and missiles made flying less important. AFIT paid for officer education at Wright-Patterson or civilian universities. By 1963, 2,800 officers had seized the opportunity for further education. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:46, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Shorten the info about the Masters/Doctorate. My take is "in 1959, with the intention of earning a master's degree, which he changed to a doctorate degree.
- NASA career
- Include the Gemini Target Office info in the previous section, as it was during Aldrin's time with the USAF prior to his astronaut selection
- "His initial application to join the astronaut corps was rejected on the basis he was never a test pilot." Please explain this more thoroughly. When did he apply and from what group was he rejected?
- In 1962, for Astronaut Group 2. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- "With the removal of test pilot experience as a prerequisite for astronaut selection, Aldrin became eligible and in October 1963, he became a member of NASA's Astronaut Group 3." This should be broken up, as a lot happens over the course of the sentence. Is there any additional info as to why the test pilot requirement was removed? Are there any details about Aldrin's application process? Was he selected in October 1963 or was that when training began?
- "His selection made him the first astronaut with a doctoral degree." This could be a fact on the end of the sentence about his selection into the astronaut corps.
- "gave him the nickname Dr. Rendezvous" Are there more details about this nickname? Who called him that? Was it a widely accepted name? I'm not disputing its legitimacy, but am curious if it was a one-off nickname that Aldrin still referred to after the fact, or it was a widely accepted nickname among the other astronauts.
- Gemini program
- In keeping consistency with the later Apollo program sub-header, there should be a separate sub-header for the Gemini 12 flight specifically.
- "With Gemini 12 scheduled as the last mission, this was a dead-end assignment" Combine this with the previous sentence, explaining that they were the prime crew for Gemini 13, but the last flight would be Gemini 12.
- "With normal crew rotation, this confirmed Aldrin's spot as a pilot on Gemini 12." This makes sense, and I know that Chaikin references the crew rotation repeatedly. However, are there any sources for when Lovell and Aldrin received official word on their selection to Gemini 12? I think the section would read better if it explained that they were formally assigned to the flight, as right now it ends that they should have the assignment, and next thing is that they do.
- Change "fly the two together" to "fly the two spacecraft together" to clarify what the two in question is (spacecraft instead of two astronauts)
- Shorten the description of previous EVAs (each attempt doesn't need to be referred to) and instead give an explanation of the major issues (mostly crew fatigue)
- Downplay the responsibility for Aldrin and the success of Gemini's EVA program. Aldrin played an important role in its development, and it was crucial that he perform well on his EVA. But the developments that enabled him to EVA successfully were from lessons learned on previous EVA attempts that were (arguably) as important to the success of the program.
- Add the info about the manual rendezvous to the previous sentence. My take it "...unusabnle, forcing the crew to rendezvous manually."
- Explain why Lovell was unable to dock and how the switch to Aldrin occured. The previous sentences portray them working as a team, so it seems like a dramatic switch to swap roles in said team.
- Include more information about the launch of Gemini 12. Give a time and date for the Gemini 12 launch, and then specify that the target vehicle was launched half an hour prior.
- Rwrite the first sentence, as it has a lot of pauses in it and reads awkwardly. My take is "Aldrin performed both a standup and a free-flight EVA during the mission."
- Replace "so he could compare" with "to compare"
- "suceeded in accomplishing the work demonstration" This reads awkwardly. I'm assuming this means that he demonstrated working outside the capsule during an EVA, but it has too many verbs to easily explain what he did.
- Instead of "the next day" do you have a date, or at least the mission day (first day, second day, etc.)
- "Aldrin performed tasks like installing electrical connectors and testing tools needed later for Apollo." Change this sentence significantly. Currently, it needs more punctuation, and comes across that it may be an all-inclusive list. My take is "Aldrin performed nummerous tasks outside the spacecraft, including installing electrical connecting and testing tools for the Apollo program."
- Do you have any more information about their landing/recovery?
- Elaborate more on his wife noticing depression, as that is the end of the paragraph and then not discussed until much later in the article.
- Using "later" and "after the mission" is redundant
- Apollo program
- This section needs to be expanded upon. There should be information about Aldrin's selection for Apollo 11, what other roles he fulfilled in the Apollo program, and more about his prep to go to the moon. The paragraph about the decision on who would step down first is pertinent, but there is more to Aldrin's story about going to the moon than that.
- The Apollo 11 sub-header should have more mission details, including launch date/time, major mission milestones, the landing process. Also, include more exploration-type details if available, as the majority of the on-moon description is about communion
- Remove the Psalm 8 quote, and just reference the verses.
- Retirement
- Change this section head to something like "Post-NASA career" as he did leave NASA, but then the first paragraph is about his time in the Air Force, followed by the rest of his career.
Done Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 10 November 2018 (UTC)- "Aldrin did not have managerial or test pilot experience, which caused him to perform poorly in his new venture." Explain how he performed poorly, as this just cites a lack of experience, and then the next sentence explains that he developed depression.
- "returned to the Air Force" add "as a civilian" as this sentence could be interpreted as he returned to active duty
- "in a managerial role" Explain what this role was. Where did he work? What was he in charge of?
- "blighted by personal problems" Explain what personal problems he experienced
- Personal preference, but I prefer not referencing books in the sentences themselves. Instead, just state the information (struggle with depression and alcoholism) and cite the books.
- Explain further developments with the Aldrin cycler. It was proposed in 1985, and then the update is that he continues (implied to present day) to research it with Purdue. What has come of subsequent research?
- When did Aldrin talk to David Morrison to explain the confusion?
- The documentary itself did not cut the conclusion. It should state that the documentary does not include it, or the documentary crew cut the conclusion.
- Views
- As this is not a wide-range of views over numerous subjects, and all in support of a manned Mars mission over moon missions, both sub-headers could be rolled into one section (titled something like "Manned Mars mission advocacy") and moved to a sub-header under the "Post-NASA career" header
- Advocating for explanation on C-SPAN in the previous paragraph should also be included.
- Remove the short quotes and paraphrase them, specifically "master plan" and "tour of duty of ten years" as neither of those are particularly profound or unique terms that need attribution, and should instead be paraphrased.
- Awards and honors
- Combine the two parts of the section that describe Aldrin's military awards.
- "President Nixon presented Aldrin and the rest of the Apollo 11 crew..." change to "President Nixon presented the Apollo 11 crew..."
- "The Apollo 11 trio" should be consistent with the rest of the parahraph "The Apollo 11 crew"
- When was the duplicate award presented? I'm assuming sometime post-2012 after Armstrong passed away
- Personal life
- Describe his battles with depression and alcohol, instead of stating that the accounts of them can be found in his book
- Since this section is broken up into distint mini-parahraphs for different topics, the part about the GOP support should be separate from the section about depression and alcoholism. Additionally, use a consistent naming scheme, as it describes Aldrin as a member of the Republican Party and then supporting GOP politicians.
- I don't see where it says that he is a party member. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- I phrased that poorly; my point was just to use a consistent naming scheme for Republican Party. Many American readers will be able to associate Republican and GOP, but I don't think that is common knowledge for those unfamiliar with the American political parties.
- I don't see where it says that he is a party member. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- "he had recently had a face-lift;" When did he have a facelift? Either include a date/time period, or remove the date reference entirely
- Remove the purchase date and sale price for the condo, as neither of them are particularly significant or notable.
- I thought that they were more than the average American could afford, but I defer to your knowledge of US household incomes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:55, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Definitely more expensive than your average American home, but not notably expensive for the Los Angeles region (not that I could afford to have a house there!)
- Is there an update on where he lives (presumably still in Satellite Beach)? The "As of" date is 2016.
- Describe his battles with depression and alcohol, instead of stating that the accounts of them can be found in his book
- Film and television
- Lead
- B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
- I made corrections above for some words to watch. The lead section should also include more about Aldrin's post-NASA career.
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Is it verifiable with no original research?
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- No concern. However, my personal preference when citing a book multiple times over is to make a ref name, and include the pages in a given use of the citation, so every book still only has one entry into the References list.
- B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:
- There is a citation needed tag after the sentence about the fifth rendezvous and fourth docking.
- C. It contains no original research:
- D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
- According to Earwig, there is quite a bit of copied material. Earwig Link. Check to see the parts that need to be paraphrased.
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- As stated above, some of the missions could be expanded
- B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
- No concern.
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- Is it neutral?
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- No concern.
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- Is it stable?
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- No concern
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- No concern.
- B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Pass or Fail:
I have completed my initial review. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 10:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I plan to get to this, a little busy lately. @Hawkeye7: are you interested in writing the military career section? Kees08 (Talk) 01:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sure. No problem. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:29, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sounds good. I'll check back in periodically; don't hesitate to write on my Talk page if you have any questions or comments. Good luck with what you have going on! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:06, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7 and Kees08: I am traveling to the mainland for the long weekend, and won't be on Wikipedia Friday-Monday. It seems that the article is coming along very well, and I'll check back once my trip is over. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 11:11, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sounds good. I may be able to get to some points this weekend, but still have real life responsibilities impeding (suppose I should have waited to nominate). Thanks Hawkeye for picking up my slack with such fervor, I really do appreciate it. Kees08 (Talk) 22:10, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Back from my trip. I will hopefully look over Hawkeye7's edits tomorrow. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 09:13, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
Additional corrections edit
Since this article was extensively rewritten, I wanted to include a separate section for the updated material.
- There was no intention to rewrite the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 12:28, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
- "Rewritten" may have been poor word choice on my part. What I meant was that a lot has changed since my original review, and I wanted to differentiate a section with what minimal cleanup items I had. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 11:55, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- "To many in the Air Force Aldrin remained the heroic fighter pilot." This seems very subjective; Col Aldrin is certainly a hero, but it seems to be a stretch that many in the Air Force consider him a heroic fighter pilot. My anecdotal evidence (from 2013 to present day) would say that Robin Olds or John Boyd are much more celebrated as Air Force fighter pilots.
- Removed. (Are we thinking of the same John Boyd?) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 12:28, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
- This is the John Boyd that I'm referring to. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 11:54, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Remove "deranged" from the Bart Sibrel description. It's editorializing to describe him as such.
- "Aldrin was an active supporter of the Republican Party" Isn't he still active, if he was supporting Dan Crenshaw in this most recent election?
- "To many in the Air Force Aldrin remained the heroic fighter pilot." This seems very subjective; Col Aldrin is certainly a hero, but it seems to be a stretch that many in the Air Force consider him a heroic fighter pilot. My anecdotal evidence (from 2013 to present day) would say that Robin Olds or John Boyd are much more celebrated as Air Force fighter pilots.
- All points addressed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 12:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have removed two extra commas in; I made each a separate edit. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:06, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- "Air Force had lost interest in space" While the Air Force, and the public, may have no longer been as excited for space exploration than during the race for the moon; this seems very speculative, and somewhat untrue, as the Air Force continued to have an interest in space, with its numerous satellite programs and support for NASA astronauts still employed by the Air Force. This should be rephrased.
- Changed to: "With the Apollo Program winding down, the Air Force's interest in space diminished." I didn't mean the original to say "lost all interest" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:50, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- Definitely knew that you didn't mean that the US Air Force had lost all interest in space, as you have clearly researched a ton about space exploration. I was just noting how it came across.Balon Greyjoy (talk) 14:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- The photo caption with "Instructor Buzz Aldrin" should remove or relocate the word "Instructor," as it is not a title, but a job. It would be more fitting to have it later in the caption, such as "Buzz Aldrin as an instructor pilot..."
It passed! edit
There were a lot of fixes for this article, and Hawkeye7 really came through for the fixes. I am happy to pass this article, nice work Hawkeye7 and Kees08!