Talk:Bulgarian Empire

MAP

i think a map is needed--Bezuidenhout (talk) 16:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are tons of map. The question is which period should be shown. Maybe when the empire was at its biggest extend? --Laveol ^T 20:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I removed two maps that were historically totally false. They showed the territory of the coastline of Nothern Greece in Eastern Macedonia as possesed and controlled by Simeon or the brothers Asan. There is not a single medieval source, a single byzantine historian or any other that can support this claim. We can assume that the southest point the Bulgarians reached for a short period of time in Eastern Macedonia was the territory of Philippoi, something 16 km north of the greek byzantine Christoupolis (ancient greek city of Neapolis, modern Kavala). Around 837 strong byzantine army using Christoupolis as a base and under the leadership of Caesar Alexios Moshele (brother in Law of Emperor Theophilus) won a crucial battle against the invaders Bulgarians in the plain of Philippoi and drove them away. Christoupolis was always under the control of the Byzantine Empire till the Normands plundered it in 1185 according to an inscription, now in the archaeological museum of Kavala. Byzantium regain control over the city shortly after to loose it by the Crusaders. The Greeks regain control over the territory under Theodorus Comnenos in 1225 - 1230 and later emperor Ioannis Vatatzis of Nikaia captured the city and its territory. Never the Bularians in medieval times controlled the territory of Pangaio mountain and the nowadays perfecture of Kavala. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xristoupolitis (talk • contribs) 22:07, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Strange massive edit

Please provide neutral academic secondary sources for your edit and talk it on the discussion-page. It sounds as science-fiction, i.e. biased nationalistic POV.Jingiby (talk) 09:29, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

End of the First Bulgarian Empire as per Encyclopedia Britannica

According to Encyclopedia Britannica: Bulgaria lost its independence in 1018 and remained subject to Byzantium for more than a century and a half, until 1185. With the collapse of the first Bulgarian state, the Bulgarian church fell under the domination of Greek ecclesiastics who took control of the see of Ohrid and attempted to replace the Bulgarian Slavic liturgy with a Greek liturgy. [1] Jingiby (talk) 05:05, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 25 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, alternative proposed below is supported by both participants in this RM (non-admin closure) Danski454 (talk) 16:48, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

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Bulgarian Empire → List of Bulgarian Empires – In order not to confuse with other articles such as:

• First_Bulgarian_Empire
• Second Bulgarian Empire Bouzinac (talk) 14:01, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. First, this isn't a list; it's a summary article covering multiple Bulgarian Empires. Also oppose per WP:CONSISTENCY; see Persian Empire. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 19:24, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I understand your point. What about putting a plural in "Bulgarian Empires" ?--Bouzinac (talk) 05:02, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@Bouzinac: Sure, but I think that if we do, we should do the same for Persian Empire. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 17:49, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 28 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the pages to the proposed titles at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 04:43, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

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• Bulgarian Empire → Bulgarian Empires
• Persian Empire → Persian Empires

– Bulgarian and Persian empires page list multiple empires that existed. So not a single but multiple empires. And there are wikipages for specific empires for Bulgarian/Persian ==> hence the need of plural so as not to confuse among them. Bouzinac (talk) 08:14, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 13:20, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:PLURAL. These articles do not deal with classes, i.e. at any given point in history "Bulgarian/Persian Empire" only referred to one entity (cf. Greek Empire, Czechoslovak Republic). —  AjaxSmack  03:34, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

User:AjaxSmack in that policy page under exceptions it says, “Articles that actually distinguish among multiple distinct instances of related items can be sensibly given a plural title when the alternative would be to create an inappropriately large number of short articles, one on each instance. The various Zeno's paradoxes, for instance, are incorporated into one article, with a correspondingly plural name.” That may or may not fit this category. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 04:10, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

• Comment From the discussion above, and from looking at the pages themselves, there doesn't seem to be much in either of them. What this move request indicates to me is that both would work as formal disambiguation pages, especially as they're currently basically disambiguation pages with more text. As a disambiguation page, the singular makes sense. CMD (talk) 04:17, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
• Correct, but where would you plan to move the current content of the articles? Perhaps History of Bulgaria or History of Iran? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 04:20, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

• I don't think there is much, if anything, that needs to be moved, given the shortness of these articles. First Bulgarian Empire, Second Bulgarian Empire, Achaemenid Empire, Parthian Empire, Sasanian Empire, and Safavid dynasty are all quite extensive articles. What exists on here are just brief summaries of those articles, plus unsourced leads and some maps. If there is something that is unique to these pages, I do agree that it would easily fit in History of Bulgaria or History of Iran. CMD (talk) 04:30, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose, I agree with the points made by

User:AjaxSmack. Comment by Barjimoa (talk) 09:50, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

There are plenty of empires that existed. WP:PLURAL give the example of State^s of Austria, State^s of Nigeria, Province^s of Sweden. Another renaming could have been such as "Empires of Perse/Bulgaria" Bouzinac (talk) 13:10, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

You are making my case. "States of Austria" et al. is an article about a "group", a collection are simultaneously existing entities, none of which is called "State of Austria". "Persian Empire" refers to a succession of empires which were called "Persian Empire". —  AjaxSmack  01:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.