Talk:Behdad Sami

Behdad Sami

Moved from my talk page.--Chaser (talk) 20:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello. He is a semi-pro player. These sources are not accurate. If you do some research you will discover that the ABA is a semi-pro league. It even says it on their website. The club he plays for in Portugal is a division II Portuguese basketball club. All these would point at him being semi-pro sir. If you go to the ABA website or Portuguese basketball league then you will see them describe their leagues as semi-pro.

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.206.189 (talk) 01:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

American Basketball Association (2000–present)

This specifically describes them as a minor league team. The team he is currently on is not even in the top level of Portuguese basketball. They are a division II semi-pro team.

Portuguese_basketball_league —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.206.189 (talk) 01:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

The ABA article says it is a "professional" league. I cannot find what you are referring to on their website. The PBL article says they are the top league in Portugal. Please link to whatever Wikipedia articles or webpages support your argument and quote the exact text that you are referring to.--Chaser (talk) 02:04, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Here are multiple websites that are accredited calling ABA a minor league:

The ABA advertises itself as the fastest-growing minor professional basketball league in the United States, which technically may be true, but in reality there seem to be dozens of teams folding each year, and new ones taking their place, maybe lasting a season, then folding as well. It's rather unorthodox. Nevertheless, ABA basketball games are fun and worth checking out if a team is near you.

The current ABA basketball level is much lower than that of the D-League, which is much lower than that of the NBA. This is different from the original American Basketball Association, which folded decades ago and was actually close to the NBA's level.

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/aba.shtml#ixzz16v2Vm3dI http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=77

I believe he is the first Pro player in portugal, but he is still only a semi-pro player in the United States. I am asking you to change this to perhaps the first Iranian in the ABA or the first Iranian to play semi-pro basketball in the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.206.189 (talk) 02:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello again this is WIKIPEDIA listing the ABA as a minor sports league. If we included every player that played in the minor league the list would be huge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_developmental_and_minor_sports_leagues —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.206.189 (talk) 03:04, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Now we're getting somewhere. None of the Wikipedia articles you cite in either of your posts have any references on point, so I'm ignoring those still. However Inside Hoops is probably a reliable source (as Wikipedia defines the term). I am looking at it more closely. But it's description of the Gwizzlies as a minor league team does not mean that Sami is a semi-pro player. The sources say he is a professional basketball player. On Wikipedia, the sources are paramount.--Chaser (talk) 03:26, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Revision is not needed. If you look under the history, from may 22 - June, 5th 2010, you will see it was nominated for deletion and all these same "facts"/debate's where listed but because 1. Behdad made world history and that in itself was notable, 2. because it falls under all Wikipedia United states PRO and overseas PRO guidelines, and most importantly 3. because even the NBA NOTES and VERIFIES that he was the first PRO not semi-pro, but the FIRST PRO and is currently a PRO athlete it leaves no room for discussion. Look under page references #8 and #9 which are two article published by www.NBA.com, where they not only claim Behdad as the first PRO Iranian to ever play pro in the USA but also a PRO athlete in general, which in one article they even state current Iranian NBA player Hamed Haddadi but NBA.com even quotes, "fun fact kids, Haddadi is not the first Iranian to play pro basketball in the U.S. - that honor goes to someone named "Behdad Sami." Now think if the NBA which is the best and biggest basketball league in the world claims Behdad as a PRO and not have listed as semi pro, then its 100% case closed. As if the NBA itself claiming Behdad as a pro is not enough, the biggest basketball magazine in the world, "SLAM Magazine" also claims the same thing as the NBA in references #1 and #6 and if that wasnt enough, even Gatorade signed him for a reality show deal and claimed him as the first pro and current pro basketball player in episode 3 under reference #7. If he falls under all full professional basketball player athlete guidelines (wikipedia), the NBA itself claims him as a pro and not semi-pro (or else they would have wrote semi-pro), since magazines as big, known, and credible as SLAM and even one of the biggest sports companies in the world, Gatorade, claim all the same things and since the basketball federation of Portugal itself came out with that article about him also being the first pro Iranian in Portugal playing in the Proliga, I'd say this is 100% case closed. Behdad is a full pro basketball athlete in the USA and overseas despite current claims made and current discussions.--Hoopindreams (talk) 03:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I am afraid we will simply have to disagree. Thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.160.206.189 (talk) 03:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

behdad sami page revision

Moved form my talk page.--Chaser (talk) 20:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

hi chaser . . heres a couple things . . .stating that behdad sami was the first minor league player is not correct whatsoever for a couple reasons. 1. in all the sources but most importantly NBA and NBA.com and SLAM, he is recognized as the first PRO . . not the first minor league player or the first semi pro, but the first PRO player, so changing it to minor league or semi pro is inaccurate especially because the NBA recognizes the current ABA as pro or else each source would have wrote "minor league" or "semi-pro" and since wikipedia is based off of facts in sources and articles, changing this would go against true known facts . . . 2. the reason why insidehoops is stating the aba is recognized as minor league ON THEIR SITE is because of the same reason OurSportsCentral dropped them to minor league, heres the quote from their site: "OurSportsCentral no longer actively covers the American Basketball Association (ABA) as a professional league due in part to its inability to publish and play a schedule and the transitory nature of many of its teams. For information on professional minor leagues" <--- see it has absolutely nothing to do with the level of play, 3. the ABA itself on their site recognize themselves as pro, not semi pro or minor. So by changing this its going against what the ABA, NBA, SLAM, and other sources including Gatorade have recognized him as. Behdad sami was the first iranian to play pro basketball at ANY level in the USA, hamed was the first in the NBA, no denying that, but behdad's accomplishment of being the first to play pro still stands with every source listed and last but not least, when this page was up for discussion to be deleted, it was decided that everything he had accomplished being the first pro in the USA was a notable achievement in itself, you can see the history of it all and the admin and wikipedia then confirmed everything and left it the same and it ended all discussions regarding aba being recognized as pro and other discussions. This revision of "minor" league is not needed, and another thing, during the time behdad played in the ABA, it was still being covered as fully pro during that time frame on both insidehoops and oursportscentral so just because they recently changed their ways that doesnt take away what behdad did and played for back in 2007/08. The "notice" on both sites or any other site that state this now are subjecting it to this only because of the ABA's recent history with scheduling and teams folding, that doesnt affect what level of play they are at nor does it lower it by any means. This same "notice" on those sites also have nothing to do with behdad, those are notices strictly to provide information that they're website doesnt cover the ABA anymore because of the reason mentioned. There are no articles or references that state behdad sami is a semi-pro or minor league player anywhere on the internet in not one article or source, each source/article only claims the correct attribute of pro and only pro (i spent hours googling). Since he is considered fully pro in the USA and overseas by every source and again most notably by the NBA itself, thats all that should matter. See all references. Each article indicates every fact i listed here.--Hoopindreams (talk) 02:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC) <---sorry forgot to log back in for the sig earlier

Minor league and professional are not exclusive categories. That is why I left the article as saying "professional" and added "minor league". For background, see Wikipedia's own article on minor league: "Minor leagues are professional sports leagues which are not regarded as the premier leagues in those sports" (emphasis added). Let me recast this. Are there any sources saying he played for a major league team in any country? The only source I have found about the ABA says it is a "minor professional basketball league" [1]. If you have some other source saying that Behdad Sami, the Gwizzlies, or the ABA is major or minor league, then please provide a URL of the site here. I'm not going to go googling for whatever you were referencing above.--Chaser (talk) 03:02, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, again, that insidehoops or OSC websites are dedicated to "independent" and "minor-league" sports and I read what their description is but thats their description is for their site and what they publish. Behdad has played in 2 major leagues overseas in (Qatar-D1) and (Iran-Superleague) both major league teams in those countries. He has played in div 2 leagues also in Romania and Turkey. He currently plays in Portugal's Proliga (which is 1 of 2 major leagues). Here are the links below and the exact quote from each link:

[2] ABA Official Home Page: ''1. "But the ABA is the largest professional sports league in the country, a league with the most diversified ownership group in sports history. We have made inclusion a mission as no other league before us. The ABA gives hundreds of players and coaches and referees a chance to do what they love to do - play, coach and ref at the professional level" 2. "The ABA is the fastest growing professional sports league in history because it is easier to own and operate an ABA team than any other." 3. "There are many outstanding ballplayers that want to play professional basketball and the ABA provides great opportunities for them" 4. "ABA Global will affect the ABA teams in the US very positively and provide fans domestically and worldwide with an opportunity to experience the ABA's exciting brand of professional basketball with the addition of great international players."''' ---thats an article source from the ABA main official website itself and quoted from the CEO Joe Newman. No where does it state they are semi-pro or minor league, indicating they are pro.

[3] NBA article from NBA.com "Fun fact kids, Haddadi is not the first Iranian to play pro basketball in the U.S. - that honor goes to someone named "Behdad Sami."" --- the NBA is the best basketball league in the world which means they do all their research before any publications and have the most up-to-date factual statements for their basketball articles. No where in that article feature did it state he was the first semi-pro or minor league pro. They reviewed and knew Behdad played in the ABA as well as overseas and still didnt give Hamed Haddadi the honor of "first pro", Behdad received it. Hamed was given the honor of "first Iranian in the NBA", but not the first pro iranian.

[4] SLAM Magazine Online (biggest basketball magazine in the world) "-In Macon, GA, the Georgia Grizzlies have signed Behdad Sami, the only professional basketball player of Iranian decent in the United States. In a time of war, maybe the orange ball can serve as a common ground." --- SLAM magazine wrote this article about "17 reasons to check out the ABA", no where was it stated that the ABA was semi pro or minor league and Behdad again was noted as (at the time) the only professional Iranian basketball player in the United States. They have to do their research as much as the NBA being they are the biggest basketball magazine and they note him as pro and playing pro (in the ABA 2007) and was no mention of minor league or semi.

[5] NBA article from NBA.com "Twenty volunteers served as Camp counselors, most notably: Behdad Sami, the first professional Iranian basketball player to ever play in the United States" --- This was a full feature article for Hamed Haddadi's summer camp where even in Hamed's own NBA article, Behdad once again is noted as the first pro. Again, the NBA does extensive research to publish every article so it has the highest nobility as far as basketball articles go and even in Haddadi's own summer camp article, Behdad is noted as pro not first minor league or first semi pro.

[6] Planetbasket article on Behdad featuring Hamed (translated from Portuguese to English in online translator) "Behdad Be was the first one basquetebolista of Will Go to playing professionally in the United States." --- PlanetBasketa is one of the most reliable and biggest websites for sports (basketball) in Europe especially in Spain and Portugal. They have to do their research as well. Haddadi was also listed in this article and listed as the first NBA player which just like every other source, they list Behdad as the first Pro and Hamed as the first NBA player.

[7] "Last season, Behdad became the first Iranian in US history to play professional basketball. He was also featur4ed in the September issue of SLAM Magazine" ---OSC no longer covers the ABA as they state in their "notice" but when they did, this was article was posted from the ABA.

[8] Recent article from the ABA "Behdad made world history with the ABA's Georgia Gwizzlies in 2007-08 by becoming the first Iranian born basketball player to ever play professional basketball in the US." --- This ABA article was published in October of 2010, by now 3 years have passed from his first ABA signing, if he was considered semi pro or minor league, they would have written that, but again he is noted as pro.

[9] SLAM Magazine Issue #121 Page 24 "Behdad became the first Iranian in United States history to play professional basketball in the states" --- SLAM magazine which is the biggest and most notable basketball magazine claims and notes behdad again as the first pro, not first semi pro or minor league in a quick article/feature about him and the ABA. Being SLAM magazine and since they only cover basketball, they could have written "semi pro or minor" but because behdad is pro (however way you want to name it; major, full pro, pro pro, etc) they noted him just like every other source.

[10] Gatorades Show (was in ep. 2-6) (noted and talked about in ep. 3) AT exactly 6:40 Gatorade's narrator: "Standing out is nothing new for Behdad, he's the first Iranian-American to ever play professional basketball in the United States" --- I think we can all agree Gatorade is by far the biggest sports brand in the world besides Nike. Gatorade did extensive research and went thru a long waited process to pick each athlete. They did all the research and note him as the first pro, not first semi or minor league.

So again, the biggest and most elite sports company, Gatorade, and the biggest and most elite basketball league in the world, the NBA, the biggest basketball magazine in the world, SLAM, along side the ABA and many other articles, websites, and sources all claim the same thing. Behdad is the first pro iranian basketball player. He is not a minor league player or a semi pro player. Not one article or source mentions him being of that, if they did, then it wouldnt be a problem to mention that but there is no article that will say he is. All sources are from major league networks and sites and not one of them has said anything or even mentioned that the ABA or Behdad is semi-pro or minor league, they all give Behdad the honor of being the first PRO Iranian basketball player to ever play in the United States WHILE they give Hamed Haddadi the honor of being the first Iranian to play in the NBA. Overall, I think this should be more than enough to keep the page the way it is.--Hoopindreams (talk) 04:17, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't have time right now to read all that. I'll read it next week and deal with this then.--Chaser (talk) 04:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Alright, Its no problem.--Hoopindreams (talk) 04:30, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I do not dispute whether Sami is a "professional" player. He plainly is. What I dispute is whether the ABA is a minor league. It just as plainly is a minor league. Therefore describing him as the first Iranian to play minor-league pro ball in the US is plainly accurate. It may not be flattering to say he is a minor league player, but flattery is not our goal. You have responded with a long list of sources that fail to specify that he is minor league. You argue from this omission that he is therefore not minor league. But the fact that the NBA is the only major basketball league in the United States is so blindingly obvious as to not need to be explicitly stated. It is therefore no surprise that it is not stated in the articles that you cite.

You also claim that "Not one article or source mentions" that Sami is minor league. This is a misleading statement. As I said above, Inside Hoops says the ABA describes itself as a minor pro ball league. [11]. That source is no longer in the article because you removed it [12]. Now, as you point out, he did play major league basketball in some other countries. So, it probably is appropriate to indicate that in the article. I have done so, but that needs a source.[13].--Chaser (talk) 21:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Again, Insidehoops can say that but when you look at the article from ABAlive.com (ABA's official website) you can clearly read that no where does it cite they are bringing "minor" league basketball to anyone, but pro basketball, sourced by the CEO himself. Also, what I stated and referred with the NBA articles is that if the NBA claims him as a PRO and does not describe him as minor league then why would wikipedia do so because of one website such as inside hoops which also happens to be a forum where anything can be written or said? Since Behdad was playing "major" league professional around the world prior/after the ABA, he came to play wether you call it minor or major as a full pro athlete in the USA and was the first so I believe the proper statement should be "Behdad was the first Iranian to play pro basketball at any level in the USA". By changing it to minor, you are discrediting his job title from what he has done overseas and what he did to even earn him a wikipedia page. I 100% agree with you, its not about flattery but its also not about taking away someone's accomplishments especially when every article and source credits and notes him as PRO and no such talks about Behdad specifically being minor in ANY article even insidehoops, no where on insidehoops is there an article or source specifying that "Behdad Sami is the first minor league player", all sources indicate him as pro and only pro. If insidehoops NOW on their site credits the ABA as minor, thats their problem, but it was not during the time frame of which Behdad played in the ABA nor should it even matter or affect Behdads basketball establishment in the rankings especially with every other source listed and quoted. As far as the other countries being sourced, for Qatar I will source eurobasket's official roster for that team which indicates behdad was a former player and as far as kaveh tehran goes, I dont have a online source but I do have his contract JPEG'd and can "photobucket" that and source it if you'd like. --Hoopindreams (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

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