Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ada Wong/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by FrB.TG via FACBot (talk) 17 August 2024 [1].

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Ada Wong

Nominator(s): JokEobard (talk) 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 01:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

This article is about a character from the Resident Evil game and film series; who is known for her red dress. This was originally written by Niemti before I and HopalongCasualty rewrote it. The article was further copyedited by JokEobard, which I feel like I should push through.

The article is currently GA and has received peer reviews by reviewers like Aoba47 UndercoverClassicist Damien Linnane, PanagiotisZois, Tintor2, Fritzmann2002 after inviting some of them. I feel like the article is ready for the FA criteria and would appreciate more feedback. Thanks 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 01:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Ada_Wong_in_Resident_Evil_2_remake.png needs a complete FUR

• Both images need a source by or with the permission of the copyright holder. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria. I think I already resolved it. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 05:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

UC

I set out at peer review that I don't think the treatment of this character's sexuality/sexualisation is where it needs to be -- we have a lot of comments at the start of "Reception" as to her being a sex symbol, a feminist icon, a "bitch" and so on -- but nothing really set out to say where this comes from, other than that she's a woman and wears a (fairly unremarkable-looking, at least in the lead image) dress. There are also quite a few remaining grammar and prose errors. PR is advice rather than commandments, but it seems odd to bring the article here having left a lot of that feedback unactioned. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:34, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi. I already removed and replaced it about their relationship with Leon since I found another source. I felt like the peer review was stagnant already. But I already attempted to resolve everyone's concerns at the peer review and got no reply back. Can you be specific what are the other few prose errors so we can figure it where is it? Thanks. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 08:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

You did make some small scale changes at PR, mostly to remove individual examples of e.g. "revealing" or "sexualised", but I didn't see a real response to the broader point about how the issue of sexualisation is framed across the article. It's more than a matter of taking out a few words: it's about the overall structure and flow of information, and making sure that we actually have good evidence for one of the article's most prominent arguments.

A few examples of the prose issues, but not an exhaustive list:

• Game publications described Ada Wong as among the most popular and best female video game.
• Magazines also praised her as one of the best female villain
• Although digital media scholar Esther MacCallum-Stewart said that Resident Evil's female characters possess unique qualities making them viable choices for players to select over their male counterparts, and said their combat attire helped them avoid criticism of adhering to the male gaze.
• Play editor Gavin Mackenzie criticized her perceived "bitch" personality in Resident Evil 4 in retrospective from the events of Resident Evil 2
• correspond to the submissive woman–femme fatale character couple

In themselves, these are fairly easy to fix, but the reason for bringing them up is that I think they illustrate that the article really needs a bit more looking-over, including but not only for the matters brought up at PR, before it comes here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I apologize if I was a bit rushed. But yeah, I can admit that writing in the reception section can be hard. Anyway, I made some changes to the prose issues you mentioned [2], though I couldn't change/remove the last part "submissive" since it's part of the author's quote. But I reworded the next sentence after that. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

And I apologise for repeating myself, but I don't think this is a matter of tweaking a few sentences: I think the evidence base of the article needs a good look, and then the article itself needs to be reworked so that either a) the commentary about sexualisation, feminism and so on has some evidence from the games to support it, or b) the article is reworked to ensure that what it says is proportioned according to what it can demonstrate. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion was continued to the user's talk page. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 13:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Vacant0

Will leave some comments here. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 09:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

• How is "biohazardcg2.com" reliable?

Done and replaced into Behind the voice actor (the only source that confirms every voice actors)

• Ref 61 and 62 are missing pages.

I don't think they need book pages since the book itself contains almost everything about the RE plot. There are a lot of Ada mentions because she appeared in that RE novelization, which just retells the story of Resident Evil: Retribution. Meanwhile, I already replaced the 2nd novel source. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 04:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Add ISSN to ref 76.

Done

• If there are any, unsourced categories should be removed. I'll have a look at them when I finish the review.

Done I have removed some of them that don't fit the character.

• I did not find any issues in the first two sections of the article. To me, it reads well and explains those parts well.
• I will go through the Reception later and do a source spotcheck considering that the GA review took place in 2023 and the article has been slightly revamped since then.

Vacant0. Thanks for your review. I think I already resolved your minor concerns above. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 04:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Continuing.

• "Game publications described Ada Wong as among the most popular female video game characters." – in the following sentences you should list the reasons and opinions about this claim. This also goes for "Magazines also praised her as one of the best female video game villains, with capabilities to star in her own video game."

  I'm not sure if its needed because if I did added their long quotes/reasons then the reception might turn out to be listicles, which the WikiProject:Video games community hates it. I copied this format to the FA article Jill Valentine's reception section. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Spotchecked Ref 1, 2, 6, 18, 19, 20, 28, 31, 38, 40, 43, 56, 64, 65.
  • "The game allows players to select between four scenarios with interwoven storylines, and Ada's campaign becomes available upon completion of those of Leon, Chris Redfield, and Jake Muller's scenarios" I only see the beginning mentioned in Ref 40

    I ended up removing that content for being like a game guide content by reviewer below. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • No mention of the Russian Far North in Ref 43.

    Removed and commented/resolved each of your concerns Vacant0. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Support Looks good to me. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful review! 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 10:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Andrzejbanas

Some brisk points from my reading through the article.

• In the lead (and in the Concept and design section), the game genre survival horror is mentioned. While I agree, Ada shows in more than just the games and as this is an article on a character and game mechanics don't seem typically important in the prose, I'd drop the "survival horror" and maybe even say she's from the Resident Evil media franchise.

  Removed at the concept and design section only since in the lead it needs to be really specific. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

I've noticed you've kept in the genre in the lead. I know Wikipedians (myself included) can get obsessed with genre. I feel like in game articles it is important. Most people don't know what "survival horror" is and if we discuss Ada as a character in games and films, a game genre does not seem to relevant. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Removed it, hopefully my conom will agree this time. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Lead and first section mention Ada, but sort of suggest she was an anti-hero in the first game as well. The citation mentioning the name maybe clarifies that the name as just sort of tossed in without much reflection of what kind of character Ada was or would be at the time. Might be good to add that or clarify it.

  Unfortunately, we can't. Pls see this argument by my conom here [3]. It also reads to me that her name being mentioned at the first game doesn't mean she was an antiheroine already. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

Sure, not going to argue this. She is more developed in the later games and hey, this might be a "different" Ada for all we know. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

• While I see this all over video game articles lately, WP:VG's cousin WP:FILMS and MOS:FILMCAST suggest "Subjective interpretation using labels such as protagonist, antagonist, villain, or main character, should be avoided. The plot summary should convey such roles." Not to mention we have material like "playable protagonist" linking to "playable character", which should probably be changed via WP:EGG.

  Replaced others except the word "protagonist" from lead and concept section and "antagonists" at lead. See this [4]. I am following Jill Valentine FA format, but I also agree that "saves the main character Leon" or other stuff reads awkward if I am gonna replace the word "protagonists". 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

Honestly, probably don't even need to say he's the protagonist either. Again, per the plot description ideology a good summary of who she is and what she does would clarify her role in a not really complicated story. If she's working for Umbrella or terrorists or whoever, this will establish her to a general audience. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The thing is if we also removed the word "protagonist", the reviewers would be asking like "who is Leon?" like in the peer review, 2 person asked me about this. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

There are other ways to address Leon that will help the user. if its in terms of character, you can surely find sources that he's a police officer stuck in raccoon city or looking for the president's daughter. If it's more vague, you can surely find a source for him as the main playable character. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Andrzejbanas Great idea you got there. Ive changed it into a "police officer" since I do have IGN source for that claim. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• A lot of the concept and design refers to plot points I wouldn't understand unless I played the games or knew a basic narrative. It jumps around between the character/personality/job of Ada and changes in her overall design.

  Unfortunately, Concept and design section isn't the place for the readers to know the character well and I can't do really much here unless more sources can be found for her dev info but I already went deep and found nothing more. Especially Ada's backstory is unknown and Capcom didn't introduced it yet. I already arranged it in order into RE2- Re2remake- RE4- RE4remake- RE6/RE Village. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  I think you managed to make this easier of a read. Good job! Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

• Leon and Ada develop a relationship. Is it like, romantic or sexual or strictly business? Might want to elaborate on that here.

  Their relationship is not specified by the source [5]. Their relationship is kind of complicated since in RE2, they have more of a romantic relationship in the middle of the game, but she actually only used Leon to steal a sample of the virus by betraying (the same with RE4). They can be assumed by fans or people who are familiar with RE as if they are having a romantic relationship, but it is not. It can't be specified or do you have any suggestions? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  Yeah see this is the problem here. A lot of the article assumes we are familiar with Resident Evil while we have to assume someone could stumble upon this article via a "Random Article" button or see her on the front page potentially. If we could find a source that somehow explains even that their relationship is vague or maybe re-phrase this that Ada casually helps Leon or steals from him or whatever she may do to showcase her anti-hero nature. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

  Added content [6]. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Resident Evil 6 takes place in 2012 in the fictional Chinese city of Lanshiang. The game allows players to select between four scenarios with interwoven storylines, and Ada's campaign becomes available upon completion of those of Leon, Chris Redfield, and Jake Muller's scenarios." probably don't need to know when you can play as Ada, feels a bit video game guide-y.

  Removed 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Honestly, going back and forth between the development and the plot, I feel like a lot of it could be moved around to make it easier to understand. I feel like stuff like "Ada is a Chinese-American spy and mercenary who recurs as an antiheroine in the Resident Evil series." and "Ada Wong was introduced as a supporting character in Capcom's 1998 survival horror video game Resident Evil 2." and "She meets protagonist Leon S. Kennedy, and the two develop a relationship as they save each other's lives throughout the game." can be covered in the plot. I'm assuming a lot of this article is based on the format of the Jill Valentine FA. I wonder if it would be better for video game characters to follow more wikipedia film article formats. Possibly a section called "narrative" or something that introduces key facts about the character "she's a chinese-american spy who works for the baddies" (but you know, written better) and then going into specifics about how her character relates to the plot and other major characters like Leon and Wesker etc.

  Discussion moved below. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Same with other elements. Her clothes she wears in the game feel a bit more related to the reception of how she looks and is perceived, as in the development section it just seems tossed in mid-sentence. Might be good to try to format how she looks in the critical reception. Something like "Ada has repeatedly been brought into broader analyses of the male gaze in video games [...] In the video games Resident Evil 2 and Resident Evil 4, Ada's outfit wears a red dress and high heels" follow up with the criticism, then maybe explain how the characters look changed in later games after.

  Removed her signature RE2 outfit info. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

I feel like i've addressed a good amount here, but that's just my comments for now, but I feel like this would greatly enhance the focus on the aspects of the character in the article. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Andrzejbanas I definitely feel the right way is to copy Jill's article format or VG format rather than WP film article formats (I'm really sorry, but this would confuse everybody, including the peer reviewers). Moving her info about being Chinese and saving each other's lives kind of nowhere can be fit since the plot/appearances section only talks about in-game each Resident Evil game. Her outfits can also be part of the concept and design, especially its changes to the remakes. I don't see how it fits at reception since it doesn't contain positive or negative feedback. Also, all of the male gaze discussions (3rd paragraph) at the scholar and books mostly mentiona only her outfit at Re4 (No mentions at Re2). I will work on your first 6 lists tomorrow. Again, I'm really sorry If I couldn't do your last 2 concerns, but I can think what I can possibly improve to it for people who are not that too familiar with Resident Evil or video games format. Thank you for the review though! Regards 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 13:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Hey hey. Sorry I think i'm being a bit misunderstood. I'm not suggesting to do WP:FILM standards (my main point there was to possibly slow down on the the protagonist/antagonist stuff as a clear plot summary will make it clear their roles. Having to name them as a protagonist/antagonist honestly feels a bit "high school essay".) I'm generally speaking in terms of her costume and look are brought up in terms of what seems trivial in appearance and honestly, stuff that I feel I could learn from the picture in the infobox (she's indeed wearing a red-dress.) But it comes off as "so what?" in that section and even potentially trivial. I feel it has better context within the reception section where they seem to be more thematically related. Also, nothing is really set in stone with how you write the article. I think you are doing a bang-up job, these are just basically my suggestions and you've brought forth valid points back. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I guess I understand what you mean now hehe. I already removed [7] what you mentioned and will work on your other concerns much much later. Thanks for the detailed review! Will mention you back once I feel like I'm done. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Andrzejbanas Hi. Feel free to read each of my comments. I attempted everything what I can. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 01:06, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I think you did a really good job of handling the issues presented. Some other quick ones:

"She uses a grappling gun for combat and traversal in the downloadable content (DLC) "Separate Ways"" Indeed she does and its pretty neat, but I don't know why its essential to know this. Doesn't really seem to come up again and comes off a bit trivial unless this is some major plot point I'm missing out on. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Removed 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

I wonder if the whole "Voice-over and live-action actresses" section is better represented by a table or something as it feels a bit odd to just read. I know video game fans tend to really go big on voice acting, but is there any context we can have? Do any of the actors have anything to say about the role or the character that might add? That might add some meat to this section. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

About the voice actors, I'm not quite sure since I cannot find a reliable source other than Li bingbing info at movie about her wig and minor details, but it was removed because it is the only one that can be provided a bit and its kinda redundant. The same happens at Jill FACs. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

Andrzejbanas just gonna poke just in case :D 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 22:03, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for your patience @Boneless Pizza:.

• In the lead with the "for antagonists" phrase... This is still a bit odd phrasing for me. everything else feels very narrative in-universe in this explanation, but in the way this is phrased, it sounds like antagonists is some evil group within the narrative of the game. Probably can just drop "antagonists" here as the sentence will still make sense as she's a spy, she's betrayed by her employers, I think everyone would understand that.

Maybe this rationale can explain properly to you [8]. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "more background is given to Ada and Leon's romance," what does "more background" mean? The source says " In the original game, it felt like Leon and Ada fell in love too quickly, so [the development team] spent more time building it up in the remake." Perhaps something like "The development team behind the 2019 remake of Resident Evil 2 to establishing the romance between and Ada and Leon."

I don't think it might be a good read to me, but I did reword it to be more understandable a bit. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Kamiya said he believed that it works out" what works out? The romance? or the narrative change/choice?

The kiss thing from the sentence above it "Executive producer Jun Takeuchi suggested that the kiss between Ada and Leon occur earlier in the remake", to which Kamiya agreed. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Despite assisting Leon, she steals a sample of a biological weapon from him for her employer, Albert Wesker."

Removed 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Ada's campaign was designed to be "a very classic Resident Evil-style" experience." This sentence only makes sense if we are familiar with the gameplay changes from the first three to the fourth game, which is not referenced here.

Removed. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Maybe include a picture of Li Bingbing or Lily Gao or both in the actress section. They are free images so it couldn't hurt?

Added. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• That's an extensive list of side-games! I would suggest dropping the genres from them again, as its not really intregal to her appearance in them.

Dropping all of it could lead to a lack of consistency per other RE characters and Jill Valentine FACs.

• "Several comic books based on the games were released," probably should mention Ada is in them if she is.

This could result some conflict with other reviewers, but if I mentioned her name "About Ada", it feels like the comics is entirely about her or you got any suggestions about wordings? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "with capabilities to star in her own video game." is a bit of a weird sentence. Either expand on this or maybe remove it. Being in your own video game isn't really a merit of honour, if so, we'd say Bubsy the Bobcat is infinitely superior as he stars in his own game series.

Removed 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Several publications have also praised Ada's relationship with Leon; Harri Chan of Polygon has described it as a hallmark of a sexpionage trope. Chan criticized it..." first part of the sentence makes it sounds like Chan was in approval of this, but then the second sentence makes it sound like he's contradicting himself.

The first sentence was just a little commentary. I ended up removing it. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "According to Bernard Perron", maybe say who Perron is so we know it's not just some guy. Kind of like " Digital media scholar Esther MacCallum-Stewart" etc.

Done 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Also, this is a bit of a weird statement "according to Perron" sounds like we're going to get an opinion, but if the camera is focused on the skirt on the lead, does this happen or not?

It did (some parts), the cutscene during in-game. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Critic Courtney Stanton". Per this, she appears to be a professor, not a critic. maybe say "academic" or something.

Done 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• There's a lot of reading into Ada Wong as a character in the game and that one about the voice acting. I know you said there wasn't a lot of specific details about the films, but any critical response to Li Bingbing or Lily Gao's portrayal?

Only this source [9], but it is mostly about the film rather than the actor as it seems. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

I'm still going through prose and haven't gone into checking sources for confirmation too much or what is there, but I think this gives you plenty to do regardless. Reach out or ping me if you have any questions. Good work! Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:47, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Andrzejbanas. I think I already resolved most of your concerns. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 03:57, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Comments Oppose by David Fuchs

Forthcoming. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 23:35, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

• Concept and design:
  • It seems odd to me that the first sentence of the second paragraph, "Ada is a Chinese-American spy and mercenary who recurs as an antiheroine in the Resident Evil series." Isn't the opening line of the body, since that's the top-level relevant detail. It makes more sense to say who the character is at a broad level before explaining when she was introduced.

    Her backstory is not yet known if thats what you're thinking. But, I've rearranged it a bit and added a content for its introduction. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • "The name "Ada" was conceived by designer Kazunori Kadoi and first mentioned in the original Resident Evil (1996).[15] Resident Evil 2 director Hideki Kamiya changed Linda's name to Ada to provide a link to the first game, and writer Noboru Sugimura came up with her characterization as a corporate spy." This feels like a weird mashup of facts and unclear through line. "Ada" was just a throwaway name in the first game and they picked it as a bid towards continuity? Or was Ada an actual character? (The source used doesn't really clarify that as someone who has never played either game.) Either way, I'd make the detail about the name(change) as a single sentence or two sentences, rather then "and Sugimura came up with her characterization" since that's not really linked to the name.

    Yes, the name "Ada" at first game is just an idea and more like a "throwaway". I made the changes you may wanted [10]. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • I think the concept section needs some rethinking more broadly. You go from development info to broad overview of the character role, to development info from the 2019 remake without introduction, then back to a 2005 game, then a 2012 game, etc. I know a lot of video game character articles try and stick all the development info before appearances, but there's no context for a lot of this development info if you tell it to us and then restate a lot of it when you get to appearances.

    I think I already juggled it now. It is arranged into RE2 - remake - Re4 - remake then Re6/Village. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • "Voice actress Sally Cahill played Ada Wong in her initial appearance in Resident Evil 2" — I get you might not want to repeat "voice" in the same sentence, but if the VA is not actually performing motion capture, etc. it seems weird to say Cahill "played" the character versus "voiced" her.

    Replaced 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • "The developers of the 2023 remake of Resident Evil 4 replaced Ada's red dress in order to distance her from the derogatory Dragon Lady trope, which portrays Asian female characters as "deceitful, mysterious, villainous, and domineering" according to Harri Chan of Polygon." Given that this is one critics' opinion that a) Ada is a dragon lady stereotype, and b) they changed her outfit specifically to avoid that, this really shouldn't be in the development section.

    Fair enough, I moved it into reception. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Appearances:
  • I think it would be better to rewrite the appearances a bit so each paragraph isn't telling us when and where each game is set, given that the chronology doesn't seem super important and the germane details are what Ada is doing in each game, rather than telling us where and when each one is set.

    The chronology only contains a minor detail because it is the introduction to each appearance in what place it happens and what year (the same with FA Jill Valentine article). Its really hard what to come up at intro if I'm gonna remove it or you got any suggestion? Anyways I expanded a bit. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Reception:
  • "Game publications described Ada Wong as among the most popular female video game characters." There's some weird tense choices in this section, where stuff like this is described in strict past tense, but something like "The Guardian journalists" are in present perfect tense when that seems like an example where you'd want past tense.

    I did reworded it now [11] 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

  • I think a little more collating of critic opinions is warranted, as right now there's certain stuff that is getting redundant (like if the common critical consensus is that RE4's outfit was impractical and ridiculous, that could get summed up rather than giving a laundry list of critics saying the same thing.

    Added 2 opinions. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• Media:
  • An infobox image needs to primarily be about identification if that's its purpose; to that end, I'm not entirely sold on File:Ada Wong in Resident Evil 2 remake.png as the image here? A remake with a (consciously different) design doesn't seem like it's the best image for that.
    • Hey David fuchs, I think I already resolved your concerns but what do you think her appearance would be more suitable for her infobox image? I used her RE2remake design is because, it has been also used by Capcom or RE portal at her profile at the website. Her render at Dead by daylight has the exact pose like this one too. Much like Jill Valentine' s infobox image I supposed? since that appearance has been used by Capcom as like promoting the character. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)
• References:
  • Forthcoming.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 19:28, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs just gonna poke just in case :D 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 22:03, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

• • I'm not sure most of my issues above have been addressed. The tense issues in the reception section remain, the point that Ada was just a random name thrown into RE1 that was repurposed is still unclear, and the article as a whole repeats itself heavily, with the Concept and design section mostly being an in-universe description of the character in its appearances, before those appearances are elaborated on further afterwards in the Appearances section; the changes to this section just make it more confusing since it spends its time talking about the games in a non-chronological sense, and it's missing a lot of context ("Ada's red side-split dress, choker, and high heels from the original version of the game were replaced for the 2023 remake of Resident Evil 4" for instance, tells us what her revised design was not, rather than what it was.) I think there's an overuse of quotes that obfuscate the meaning rather than clarify. I'm not sold the layout of the article is the best way to present the information to a casual audience. I'm regretfully going to oppose since I don't think this is something to be addressed in the scope of FAC. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 20:59, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs. JokEobard and I have made several changes already to address each of your concerns. "I don't think this is something to be addressed in the scope of FAC" Well you're kinda wrong about that. Thoughts? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 08:39, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Boneless Pizza, As Dave Fuchs is one of the FAC co-ordinators (albeit recused as far as this review goes), I think he probably has a slightly better handle on on what is and isn't within the scope of FAC. Reading these comments, and with a read of the article, I actually think he's kinda right about it. Part of what he's said is reflected in what UndercoverClassicist has said too (and they are one of the best reviewers we have active at the moment). You may want to think about withdrawing this nomination now and working on it a little more before returning - there's nothing wrong with that course, and many of our strongest articles have been down that route. - SchroCat (talk) 12:54, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I did not disagreed Fuchs concern that much but other reviewer (I think) [12]. I assumed that this FAC attracted your attention from UC's talk page, but yeah. I know he is a FAC Coordinator, but it doesn't mean that once a user opposed the nomination then the article should ended (We did a lot of changes within a span of 2 days already). According to the FAC's policy Reviewers who object are strongly encouraged to return after a few days to check whether their objection has been addressed. Withdrawing it feels like you're giving up. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 13:03, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If there have been "a lot of changes", then it's a sign it shouldn't really be at FAC in the first place; articles that come here should be more or less ready to promote, with FAC for final polishing and tweaking, not a root-and-branch reworking with a lot of changes. Withdrawing isn't giving up by any stretch of the imagination: it's an acknowledgement that the article needs more work to become one of the best pieces WP has to offer. Many people who have written multiple articles (including me) have withdrawn articles to work on them and reintroduce at a later date and see them pass - it's just an acknowledgement that a little more needs to be done, without asking FA reviewers to do all the work for you. - SchroCat (talk)

:::::::Maybe I was exaggerating it I think, I should have worded it "several times". But, yeah we already addressed his main concerns and for now its a waiting game for his respond. Withdrawing it doesn't help that much, especially to other reviewers here who is still tend to continue. I do appreciate your concern though. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 13:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Support prose from Shooterwalker

Reserving this space for later. I'll have more comments in time. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Some review of the prose that would address a few minor issues, mostly for clarity and flow:

• " Ada is a spy and mercenary who is often hired to steal biological weapons for antagonists, " -> " Ada is a mercenary who often steals biological weapons for antagonists," (it's implied that mercenaries are hired)

Done. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• "characterized her" ->

"described her" (simpler)

Done. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• The design feels like it covers the appearances in a way that pre-empts them. I'd consider swapping the order so that appearances start first (here's what she looks like in the game), and then the design comes after (this is how and why they came up with it). I realize you might get conflicting advice on this, but I think this will make a lot more sense. I leave it up to you.

Done Moved some part of sentences from the first paragraph and third paragraph as suggested. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:46, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• " Game publications described" -> " Game publications have described" (slight verb tense change that summarizes what sources have done over time)

Done. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• The last two sentences of the first paragraph in the reception refer to the timeline and events, and being unflattering to the character. It feels like something is missing here, because the issue is unclear or confusing. Try to rephrase or re-order, if you can.

• " that their combat attire helped avoid criticism of pandering to the male gaze" -> this is unclear. Is the reviewer saying that the red dress is appropriate combat attire, or are they saying that having an alternate "combat appropriate" outfit helped address the criticism?

Done, just added "alternate" just in case. Her outfit in Re4 despite being red dress can be considered a conbat attire cause she has a blacj thing on the sides of her legs. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• Further to the last sentence, since this sentence is the outlier, maybe it makes more sense to put it at the end of the paragraph. In WP:PYRAMID style, it's better to lead with the general statements, and put the exceptional statements later in the prose.

Done moving it. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• " who she assumed were viewers or players" -> this is an odd statement. Like, doesn't everyone assume that some men played the game? It feels easy enough to remove without losing anything.

Done removing it. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• "Scholar Andrei Nae wrote that Ada and Ashley Graham are a "submissive woman–femme fatale character couple" in Resident Evil 4." -> "Scholar Andrei Nae contrasts Ada's role in Resident Evil 4 with the character Ashley Graham." (the quote is unclear and begs for more explanation. It's clearer to remove the quote and explain it in plain language.)

I'll admit this part is the hardest to rephrase or rewrite. I attempted to add, but I'll shows you what was written in the book just in case it can be improved. It was written like this "The not-yet hypermasculinity of Leon S. Kennedy is also reflected in the game’s scripted narrative whose approach to gender is indebted to noir cinema. The game’s two main female characters, Ashley Graham and Ada Wong correspond to the submissive woman-femme fatale character couple. While Leon’s authority over Ashley is never contested as she obeys him throughout the entire game, Ada Wong is the femme fatale whose disobedience of patriarchy demands regulation. However, contrary to the conventions of noir cinema and in synch with Leon S. Kennedy’s incomplete hypermasculinity, Ada remains outside the ambit of the male protagonist’s authority." Any thoughts or the added content is fine? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:32, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

• " Gao deleted her Instagram posts after she was harassed online, later saying: "My Ada is a survivor. She is unpredictable, resilient, and absolutely not a stereotype." -> It makes more sense to place this after the criticism. Right now, it breaks up the flow of the paragraph.

Done. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

The prose is otherwise excellent. This is very close to FA quality, a few issues aside. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

This has all helped a lot. The biggest issues are still some of the more complex, confusing ideas in the reception:

• Mike Wehner of The Escapist said, "Capcom's manipulation of the Resident Evil timeline hasn't exactly been kind to this particular theory surrounding Ada Wong's fate" when Ada returned in Resident Evil 4 after her supposed death in Resident Evil 2. According to Wehner, Capcom buried Ada's death in series lore to the extent that "you're not supposed to acknowledge that it even exists".

I'm having trouble understanding it, and it should be clear in the article without having to dive into the sources. It could use a rephrase, or at least a reorder. We can always talk it out if you're looking for further input.

Also,

• Scholar Andrei Nae wrote that Leon S. Kennedy's not-yet hypermasculine personality is also represented in the game's scripted plot, which takes a noir film-inspired approach to gender. He stated that Ada and Ashley Graham are a "submissive woman–femme fatale character couple" in Resident Evil 4. He further says that while Ashley always follows the protagonist Leon's commands in-game, Ada stays outside the scope of the male protagonist's control, defying patriarchal convention.

Done attempting to rephrase this one. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 02:56, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I know academic sources touch on some complex ideas, but for the sake of an encyclopedia article, it starts to feel off topic at this level detail. The phrasing I suggested in my first round of feedback ("Scholar Andrei Nae contrasts Ada's role in Resident Evil 4 with the character Ashley Graham") would be shorter and clearer. If "contrast" feels too specific, the word "compare" would work too. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:42, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Done and replaced. I think I should be done to your concerns? Shooterwalker 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 02:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm happy to support the prose on this article. I wanted to note the objections from David Fuchs and I actually sympathize. I would return to my earlier comment: The design feels like it covers the appearances in a way that pre-empts them. I'd consider swapping the order so that appearances start first (here's what she looks like in the game), and then the design comes after (this is how and why they came up with it). It's going to make a lot more sense to say "this is how Ada appeared in the fiction, and this is how she was designed" instead of the other way around. (That's indeed the template I used on my other FAs.) It will likely allow you to simplify some of the verb tense issues, as you could write the design section without having to jump back and forth with how she appeared in game. I would still support in spite of that, but I think it's the type of thing that would improve the article substantially. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:51, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your review/support! I'm not sure if Fuchs would be fine now, but we already tried and made the changes at the design and appearances section. I did not made the changes that much earlier from his concern becauae I was having trouble until my coworker had enough time and do the changes. Hooefully he respond to it (he hasn't yet). 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 16:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Tintor2

I Will be doing some revisions.I think I'm qualified to oversee this article. Tintor2 (talk) 11:42, 8 August 2024

• Behind the Voice Actors has been approved by the game project but only the green mark is available. I recommend adding that to the citation.
• I've talked with the nominator and other members about the quality of Siliconera, but I'm pretty sure the game project has also approved it. It tends to mention the original material like Famitsu and translates most of it in order to be a more accessible source for the general public.
• Citation 16 is kinda weak. Access to such part of the game though is possible in modern console thanks to ports becoming playable digitally.
• I read all the sources and found everything reliable as approved by the project. The only website I had no knowledge involved writing by the famous Sarkeesian.
• The formatting of citations is consistent and formating of dates is also consistent. I might easily pass this once @Boneless Pizza!: added the note to Behind the Voice Actors.Tintor2 (talk) 18:41, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi. I apologize for this, but no ref 16 is not weak or something, it is the only one of the two primary sources being used to verify the artists at the article. Anita Sarkeesian or Feminist Frequency is indeed reliable and it went through Jill Valentine's FAC several times. Also, I don't think we need notes at Behind the Voice, its unnecessary. Any more concerns? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 19:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Giving my support then. I was wondering if there was a more commentary to add for 16 though.Tintor2 (talk) 19:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The commentary for that source is also unnecessary after reading through Jill Valentine FACs, it has no commentary for the source about its artist. Thanks for reviewing. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 19:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Source review

What makes http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com, https://www.star-ch.jp, https://www.fukikaeru.com, Micro Design Publishing Inc., Biohazard 4 Kaitai Shinsho - Report about Ada and BradyGames Publishing reliable sources? Should Twitter be titled X now? #80 has a notably different format from the others. Is Perry 2012 used anywhere? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus Done replacing everything. However, I don't know how to change the name "Twitter" into "X", because the name "Twitter" is not stated in the title and I don't think it's replaceable. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 09:56, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks like it's a thing with {{cite tweet}}. Note that sometimes you don't need to remove a source; explaining how it is a "high-quality reliable source" sometimes suffices. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! About the source, most of it was irrelevant anyway that's why I ended up removing it, including the "Kaitai Shinsho" source despite it being the only reliable source you've mentioned. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 08:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk Hey, I wanted to know is this a source review pass or there's more? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 11:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Shooterwalker, Andrzejbanas Thank you for your detailed reviews, but unfortunately I have to withdraw my nomination due to 2 opposses here in FaC and I feel like I've been burned out here just because of these issues (I'll work on it slowly). Hopefully I can renominate it in the future and I could able to let User:Aoba47 check if they are satisfied with the prose already before renominating it next year or not. Also, thanks to UndercoverClassicist and Fuchs for weighing in to make sure that the article still contain significant issues. Because of that, I wanted to withdraw my first FAC nom. Thank you. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 22:56, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear it but I encourage you to try again when you're ready. There is a lot of great work here, and it can one day be a featured article. I'm here if you need any support. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

.:Shooterwalker I got an email and someone said I shouldn't abort yet cause of single oppose so Ill try to resolve these issues as much as I can now and gather more feedbacks 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 02:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

That's the spirit. Keep going. As far as the prose is concerned, I only have two notes that can be resolved with a bit of work. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Review from Hurricanehink

I figure I should review an article, so why not a video game character?

• "The name "Ada" was conceived by designer Kazunori Kadoi and first mentioned in the original Resident Evil (1996)" - feels like this could be two separate sentences. I'm left wondering more about how she is mentioned in Resident Evil.

I reworded it a bit by reolacing the word "mentioned" to avoid confusion. Kadoi randomly thought about her name during the development of the first RE game but didn't added her at the game but in second game. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• " Lily Gao played the role in the 2021 reboot film Resident Evil: Welcome to Raccoon City" - you mention this twice, since it's already mentioned in the previous paragraph with the voice actor. I suggest merging those last two short paragraphs

Done 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• " Later ports of Resident Evil 4 include a new scenario featuring Ada as the playable character. " - how much later? This seems kinda significant for an update.

Replaced "later" to "other", maybe this works out for you? 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "After helping Leon, Chris Redfield, and Jake Muller defeat Simmons and Carla, Ada destroys the lab where her clone was created before accepting a new assignment." - too much for one sentence

Trimmed and reworded. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• What kind of game is "Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City (2012)"?

Added 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• She also appears in games from other franchises, including the browser-based social game Onimusha Soul (2013),[44] as a non-player character in the tactical role-playing game Project X Zone 2 (2015),[45] Dead by Daylight (2016) as a playable character,[46] Street Fighter V (2016) as an alternate skin for Kolin,[47] as a costume in Knives Out (2017),[48] as a fighter in Puzzle Fighter (2017),[49] and in the digital collectible card game Teppen (2019).[50] In 2023, she also appeared in the two crossover events of mobile games.[51][52]

• I figured I'd quote all of this since a few things stood out.

• "Onimusha Soul" seems much more than a social game, it's an action-adventure or hack and slash. That makes so much more sense why Ada would appear there, and I had to look up what social game even meant.

Added and Replaced 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• I had to look up what Dead by Daylight was, so I suggest adding what kind of game that was (like the other ones do). Similar for Knives Out (which is what type of game?)

Done 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• I don't know what "the two crossover events of mobile games." - could you elaborate?

Done 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Ada features in novelization of the films and games" - is the plural of novelization not "novelizations"?

Replaced 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Capcom screenwriters created two Resident Evil 2 radio dramas, such as Ikiteita Onna Spy Ada (The Female Spy Ada Lives)." - "such as"? What's the other one? Or was only one aired?

Added missing content. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Several comic books based on the games about Ada were released" - were the comic books about Ada, or did she happen to appear in them?

She indeed appear in those comics. I ended up removing "about ada". 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Magazines also described her as one of the best female video game villains." - maybe I'm missing something, but when was Ada a villain? She's described as "antiheroine" and "mercenary"

Since shes antihero, she can be also called Villain by some journalost, but I ended up removing it to avoid the confusion. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• "Play editor Gavin Mackenzie criticized her perceived "bitch" personality in Resident Evil 4 in a retrospective of the events of Resident Evil 2." - I keep reading this sentence. Was the criticism for her portrayal in RE4 or 2?

The criticism was in Re4. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 01:55, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

• "When Ada Wong reappeared in Resident Evil 4 following her alleged death in Resident Evil 2" - when did she allegedly die in RE2? The way it says earlier in the article seems to contradict this:

• "Despite being severely wounded, Ada survives and helps Leon destroy the T-103 Tyrant by tossing him a missile launcher.[19][30] Ada escapes Raccoon City before its destruction by a nuclear strike as part of a U.S. government cover-up."

Because the journalist only said "alleged." When you play RE2, Ada got shot by the scientist and fell at the bridge, and in another scene, she was severely injured by the Tyrant (a monster) before dying/passing out in Leon's hands, but in the RE2 remake, she only fell at the bridge, which is why we didn't specify it due to the remake. After falling to the bridge, her fate is now unknown, but it was later revealed that she indeed survived the falls and threw a rocket launcher at the protagonist, Leon S. Kennedy, to destroy the Tyrant. Sorry for spoiling the game. :D 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

• OK I'm definitely confused. When did Ada die in the games? Nothing in "Appearances" section suggests that

Explained above. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

In all, a good read. Just some few points I wanted some clarity on. Let me know if you have any questions. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:10, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Hurricanehink. I think I resolved all of your concerns. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔)

Coordinator comment

Boneless Pizza!, as per the FAC instructions, avoid using graphics like {{done}} as they slow down the page load time. FrB.TG (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

FrB.TG I decided to withdraw per UC's talk page here [13]. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 13:55, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been withdrawn, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. FrB.TG (talk) 14:40, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.