Talk:Alfie Fripp

Birth year

We have 1913 in persondata and category; and 1914 in lede and infobox. Which is correct? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:48, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This has been fixed. WIth new articles like this, some of the hidden info (like Persondata) gets missed or overlooked. — Wyliepedia 15:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Don't I know that! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:22, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

1914 says Robert Fripp's diary of 5 January. The 1913 data and misattribution of his wife's pictures as AF's comes from the REAL pop history site. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Image

I am currently in correspondence with a photographer that has great image of Alfie. If anyone can find one, before I get permission to use his, feel free to add one. — Wyliepedia 17:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

"39ers"

Is there an article, template, category on them? That would be neat! — Wyliepedia 20:10, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Robert Fripp's diary: DGM Terms of Service

The Discipline Global Mobile terms of service do not allow linking to e.g. diary pages.

In this case, I would let the direct link to Robert Fripp's memorial to his Uncle stand, if there are no objections, the better to honour Squadron Commander Fripp.

Respectfully, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

We're not bound by those asinine ToS; if they don't want people to link to their pages, they should remove them from the web; or do redirection on their sever. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:23, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

There has been discussion on this topic before. See the talk page of RF. In particular cases, talk page consensus decides whether a deep link is appropriate. Please avoid "asinine". Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:28, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

The talk page of another article does not determine the content of this one; but please provide a specific link if you wish to refer other editors to a prior discussion. I have started a policy discussion, at WP:VPP#Prohibited (sic) links. I see no reason not to call something which is asinine, asinine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Probably best not to use is as a self-published source it is not really reliable, it certainly would get culled if the article went for any sort of quality assesment. MilborneOne (talk) 16:25, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Self=published sources of this type are acceptable for certain types of conetnt. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:41, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

(Here, Pigsonthewing is correct.)

On the contrary, MilborneOne, Fripp's diary is used in the good article Discipline Global Mobile, which has discussions of Fripp's diary by academics and leading newspapers and newsmagazines. However, Fripp's diary and similar self-published sources are used only for "colour", here and there. Jeremy Vine's interview establishes that Fripp is a nephew of Alfrie Fripp, assuming BBC2 is a reliable source, and it could be cited instead: Fripp's source is textual rather than nearly two hours into an interview, so it seems reasonable to cite it. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

So really you agree that if it is only used for adding colour then it is not really needed, a notable gentleman like Fripp should have plenty of reliable sources other than one set up by his relatives. MilborneOne (talk) 18:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Fripp's diary is cited twice. Most recently for the 1914 birth year. Previously for the relationship of Uncle-Nephew. Go ahead and listen to the interview or find a transcript or a reference to the BBC2 interview, if you prefer. A January entry could well be cited for the fact that that he appears as a guest on the show; his appearing as a guest does not establish his appearance with a secondary reliable source. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:10, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Usual name

Was he usually called Alfie, or Bill? The article title suggests Alfie, but the infobox suggests Bill (with Alfie as an afterthought). We should be consistent - or, if he was called different names by different groups of people as sometimes happens, and is implied in Robert Fripp's reference to his uncle Bill, this should be explained. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:16, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Alfie "Bill" was used by cited sources. Thanks for the query. I updated the nickname. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:29, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Although that may well be how written sources name him, it's hard to believe that anyone in practice ever called him "Alfie Bill", as your edits now suggest. They either called him Alfie, or Bill, or both interchangeably, but not both at the same time. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I reformatted the nicknames. Please improve the formatting if you can. You might ask for help at the WikiProject Biography. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I prefer my style, rather than trying to contain two nicknames (or shortened names) within the opening few words. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Well done! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Marriage

In trying to track down his wife's date of death, I accessed the Ancestry.co.uk site, and discovered that her maiden name is recorded as Ahlandt, rather than Allen (though the family may of course have anglicised it) - [1] and [2]. She was born in Southampton in 1911 ([3]) and died in 1996 ([4]). I haven't added these to the article as I suspect they don't count as reliable sources - though I'm sure they are correct. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:31, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I cannot access that site. None of the reliable sources specify the death date of his wife, so perhaps we should insist on a reliable source and think about due weight (WP:DUE)? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:02, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Do any of the sources specify her birth year? If not, that should be left out as well, avoiding the need for a question mark to which, in fact, we know the answer. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Now clarified. 1939 was the year of their marriage, not her birth. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:38, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

@Ghmyrtle,

Would you please double-check the birth year of AF using your license? (RF states that it was 1914.) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:25, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Just for info from a primary source - an Alfred G Fripp was born in the second quarter of 1914 in the Alverstoke registration district, mother name given as Bennett. MilborneOne (talk) 20:54, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Now I can sleep without worrying! ;) Would you cite your source in the article, please? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:35, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Facebook

I have removed the link to a facebook account per WP:FACEBOOK and have been reverted because (with regard to Kiefer.Wolfowitz comment on my talk page) exceptions are made for official links when the subject of the article has no other Web presence. You need to make up your mind either the self-published vantity site by his relative or the facebook page they all cant be "official". MilborneOne (talk) 18:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I removed the FB site, which is linked for the newspaper clippings from 1939. "Vanity" is not the best word-choice for tapes that were excerpted on the BBC. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry I havent actually look at it, but if it has BBC copyright material then we shouldnt be linking to it. We dont have any requirement to have "hard copies" of newspaper cutting, it is far better to cite the original print source. MilborneOne (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

BBC? I thought at least one of the clippings was from the Echo? Since you are familiar with British ways, you should do what you think is best. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:03, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

BBC?, 2nd round:

The newspaper clippings were linked at FB.

The video was produced by the Fripp family a few years ago and I believe that it is available as a compact disc from the site of Patricia Fripp, a niece (and former president of a public speakers' association) and the sister of Robert Fripp.

As a tribute, on the BBC, excerpts from the Fripp audio were aired, which were credited to the Fripp family verbally. (I believe an audio-edit corrected a Messerschmitt-slip in the Youtube version, if my memory is correct.) I don't think that such rebroadcasting would create BBC copyright, which seemed to be your concern. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:21, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Babies

How are photos of him - and, especially, his wife - as babies related to the encyclopaedic content of this article? One baby looks pretty much like any other. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm regularly informed that is because "all babies look like Eisenhower". I think the image of his future parents-in-law (with his future wife), at least, might help some readers to place his childhood in historical context by their costumes. (Imagine for example that we might have some readers who don't pay much attention to birth year and maybe see being a crew member of a WW2 bomber as placing a person firmly in the mechanised age - a visual cue for the other side of the coin is potentially useful.) Of course, this might be unnecessary if suitable pictures of Fripp himself are available. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 12:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld added the pictures, which appear to be the only public domain pictures available. I corrected the wife's picture, which was formerly labled as AF's. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC) I removed both, both being of the future Mrs. Fripp, according to RF's diary. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to see the pictures go as, unlike Ghm, I don't think that all babies look the same! But first I thought Alfie looked like a girl. And now I discover that the picture that looked like a boy was in fact also Vera! can we be sure that the Eisenhower "rumour" was not all just a CIA anti-communist conspiracy? I think Dr Blofeld may even be carrying it on for his own amusement! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Are you referring to J. Edgar Hoover's transvestism? Tomorrow, who's gonna fuss? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Only subconsciously, obviously. Nice track, though. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Genealogy

This is an amateur family history site, but seems to have accurate information. It refers to Alfred George Fripp, and his wife Vera Violet Ahlandt (see thread above). Alfred George Fripp's parents were Austin Henry Fripp (born 4 Mar 1887, in Manswood, Moor Critchell, Dorset; died Sept 1961), and Emily Bennett (born about 1889 in Gosport, Hampshire; death not stated), who married on 23 Dec 1908 in Alverstoke. Austin was employed as Lance Corporal - Sgt Major R.M.L.I., and later as a postman. His parents were Abraham Fripp (b. 1846, Witchampton, Dorset; d. unknown) and Elizabeth Gilbert (b. c.1849, Moor Crichell, Dorset; d. unknown). Self-published source so perhaps not reliable, but no reason to think it's not accurate. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:53, 17 January 2013 (UTC) PS: For completeness, a quick bit of highly unacceptable WP:OR reveals that Abraham Fripp died in 1928, and his wife Elizabeth (I think) in 1910. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

It seems that AF's parents were married and lived for a while in Alvertstock, but there's no RS stating that as AF's birthplace. He grew up in the Fripp ancestral town of Wimborne, according to one of the R sources. 16:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk • contribs)

Did You Know?: 11,773 readers

Tunnel "Harry" from the Great Escape.

On 17 January 2013, the article Alfie Fripp appeared on the main page of Wikipedia in the Did You Know section. The article attracted 11,773 readers, which is a very large number indeed.

• ... that RAF Squadron Commander Alfie Fripp (1914–2013), the longest-serving and oldest-surviving British prisoner of war of World War II, scrounged tools that were used to excavate the "Great Escape" tunnel (pictured)? 17 January 2013 11,773 k Readers

Thanks to all the writers for their contributions! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:00, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

A well-written DYK hook always gets 'em! — Wyliepedia 13:44, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

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